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  1. #76
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    Just another expense, to pay the Insurance companies and lawyers

    Here in WNC we ride, rain, or shine, mud or dust. The other policy I stated was the event would run rain or shine. You know we don't exactly live where hurricanes have ever devestated before, it is also not tornado alley. It already costs way more to put on an event like this than most people could imagine, and folks balk at tha price as it is. Do you know how many teams it takes just to pay the minimum price for liability, and suplimental coverage for the racers? Would it be like a web usage fee? Pass it on to the racers? No I am sorry. The odds are the race goes on with out a hitch, I will offer an alternate date, or a free entry next year rather than line the pockets of insurance companies. Does the insurance cover someone dropping out because all of a sudden their nephew is getting married or because their dog got hit by a car, (why wasn't he on a leash?) We all take chances, calculated risks. I just will not take someones money with out giving them a choice of an alternate date, or an entry into next years race. If I refund one person, then why should I not refund everyone?

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Hey, thought you all would like to know that Stuart Dorland has "suspended" Jeff Kerkove from any 24hrs of Adrenaline events for a year based on the comments he made in this thread! This means he cannot race at Worlds, an event he has been preparing for all year. I know Jeff will not respond to this action here, so I am taking the initiative to let you guys in on this preposterous action.
    Looks like 24sports has adopted the "NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!" business model. an interesting gambit.............hrmmmm

  3. #78
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    Good job! 24 hours Moab..a new worlds

    fellow endurance racers take note. the 24 hours of Moab, has long been the 24 hour Amtri worlds..few know this. Solos and teams take note, that it is not the race director who determins what a world championship is, it is the racers who show up to the venue and race. We have a promoter out their, Laird Knight, who has shown us time and time again, what a great event he can put on. A tough course, great camping, great results, right at our fingertips, state of the art computer systems, and get this a super large cash purse to the top soloists...top three might I add..he is a great promoter, who we need to start recognizing.

    I just spoke with him at length via phone, about the need for a true World chamionships, a great venue, where racers are treated with respect. The 24 hours of Moab, is the perfect place for this. I raced here solo last year, and the course is challenging, yet fair, and worthy of being a world championship course. Plus it is Moab..the home of mountain biking, what a perfect place for a worlds. Plus we do not have to travel to another country!

    Long story short, Laird, will back us 100%. He said he will do his part to make this event, the 24 hours of Moab, a true World chamionship. It is time someone does things the right way.

    calling Laird was my idea, Stuart might feel like he can take away our money, but he cannot take away our right for a real World Championship Calibur event.

    The ball is now in our court, I urge everyone to register for Moab this year. The New world Chamionship!

  4. #79
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    Good job! 24 hours Moab..a new worlds

    fellow endurance racers take note. the 24 hours of Moab, has long been the 24 hour Amtri worlds..few know this. Solos and teams take note, that it is not the race director who determins what a world championship is, it is the racers who show up to the venue and race. We have a promoter out their, Laird Knight, who has shown us time and time again, what a great event he can put on. A tough course, great camping, great results, right at our fingertips, state of the art computer systems, and get this a super large cash purse to the top soloists...top three might I add..he is a great promoter, who we need to start recognizing.

    I just spoke with him at length via phone, about the need for a true World chamionships, a great venue, where racers are treated with respect. The 24 hours of Moab, is the perfect place for this. I raced here solo last year, and the course is challenging, yet fair, and worthy of being a world championship course. Plus it is Moab..the home of mountain biking, what a perfect place for a worlds. Plus we do not have to travel to another country!

    Long story short, Laird, will back us 100%. He said he will do his part to make this event, the 24 hours of Moab, a true World chamionship. It is time someone does things the right way.

    calling Laird was my idea, Stuart might feel like he can take away our money, but he cannot take away our right for a real World Championship Calibur event.

    The ball is now in our court, I urge everyone to register for Moab this year. The New world Chamionship!

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by hmosley
    fellow endurance racers take note. the 24 hours of Moab, has long been the 24 hour Amtri worlds..few know this. Solos and teams take note, that it is not the race director who determins what a world championship is, it is the racers who show up to the venue and race. We have a promoter out their, Laird Knight, who has shown us time and time again, what a great event he can put on. A tough course, great camping, great results, right at our fingertips, state of the art computer systems, and get this a super large cash purse to the top soloists...top three might I add..he is a great promoter, who we need to start recognizing.

    I just spoke with him at length via phone, about the need for a true World chamionships, a great venue, where racers are treated with respect. The 24 hours of Moab, is the perfect place for this. I raced here solo last year, and the course is challenging, yet fair, and worthy of being a world championship course. Plus it is Moab..the home of mountain biking, what a perfect place for a worlds. Plus we do not have to travel to another country!

    Long story short, Laird, will back us 100%. He said he will do his part to make this event, the 24 hours of Moab, a true World chamionship. It is time someone does things the right way.

    calling Laird was my idea, Stuart might feel like he can take away our money, but he cannot take away our right for a real World Championship Calibur event.

    The ball is now in our court, I urge everyone to register for Moab this year. The New world Chamionship!
    Ugh. Anywhere but Moab! That course & venue are terrible, IMO. Smoke, dust, sand, smoke, dust, sand - and more sand. Never mind Lee Bridgers assessment! Yikes.

    It is one of those event's that every mtbiker interested in sheer spectacle and endurance racing should check out sometime in their life... of all the events in the US/CAN - isn't there a better venue than Moab? Ack. The 24HOA course at McDowell Park is great, as is Epic Rides' Old Pueblo course (speaking of the few I have experience with...). What about Temecula? Sounds like that's OK, no? Moab just seems like an overly abused and unfun course, that thankfully the crowd and management of the evnt help temper - but riding that course is juts not very fun - again, except for the fact you're with similarly psycho buddies!

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  6. #81
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    I enjoy the Moab course. I've done it as a team, and as a solo. It does get smokey and sandy, but that is all part of the atmosphere that makes it an amazing event.
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  7. #82
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    What about 24 hours of the Ozarks. That's still TBA on their website and it's 3 weeks away! (And real close to me so I'd actually consider going).

  8. #83
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    wow

    wow, i've never raced a big 24 hour event.
    local 12 hour for a few years but that's about it.

    I do it for the comrodery, not the compotion...

    and after reading this I'll never do one for 24hoa

    I ran into this subject on one of my buddies blogs. and followed the links until I got here and read all this.

    It made me so pissed off, I've flubbed off work all morning just to read this, set up an account, and all to tell Stewart.

    dude, you suck.
    get outa puttin on races,
    your giving it a bad name.

    3p0

  9. #84
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    I'm calling Bullsh** - The Truth about Trilife

    Quote Originally Posted by twenty4 sports
    Please note that Granny Gears fees are substantially move than ours for example. Do your fact checking before posting. Speaking of Granny Gear... Larid Knight sued Trilife two years ago and the company was lost to bankruptcy. NOTE... he sued use for the rules for 24 hour racing... I ask the question who should control the rules? He sued us for the use of "24 Hours of _______" anything... that's right folks....
    I typically keep to my work and haven't taken the opportunity to peruse these boards but several of my racers have informed me about this thread. First, I'd like to say, I'm really imressed with how much buzz there is about 24-hour racing. I created this format for the mountain biker's keen nose for fun and it's gratifying to see how much fun is being had.

    Second, I want to acknowledge Nat Ross for his excellent list of criteria for a great 24-hour race: http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php...923&postcount=9

    Lastly, I'm calling Bullshi**! on Stuarts rhetoric

    1st Bullshi**!: Stuart, stop spinning the facts. Let's look at the largest class, the 4-person team:
    24hoa 4-person team $575 + 10 web fee + $20 insurance fee = $605
    GGP 4-person team $560 + 12 cc processing = $572 (substantially more? No, actually less)
    Even GGP's solo enty is less AND we award 50% CASH back to the racers

    2nd Bullshi**!: Stuart dumped $285,000 on his creditors when he bankrupted Trilife. He was involved in three lawsuits at the time, all of which were created by his actions. Granny Gear Productions won its lawsuit against Trilife because Stuart was in blatant copyright infringment AND cyber-piracy. Stuart weasled out of paying his bills AND dodged judgements that were coming his way. He didn't event pay his lawyers. They are some of the creditors listed in the bankruptcy papers!

    Stuart, stop whining. It's SO un-becoming. You got a HUGE break. And stop blaming me for all your problems just because I have the integrity to protect my intellectual property and my trademarks. (And the integrity to pay my bills)

    BTW Folks, GGP does allow transfering or forwarding entry fees. Come join us in Moab if you can. It's an absolutely spectacular event. Keep the rubber side down.

    http://www.grannygear.com
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  10. #85
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    Ridiculous

    Just read through all of this post. I have never raced a 24 hour event and probably never will. In fact, I am not a racer at all. So, perhaps I cannot fully appreciate all of this. However, this appears to me to be the most blatant use of a business to carry out a personal grudge that I have ever seen.

    Stuart (whoever you are) - It's clear that you had some dirty laundry aired on this post. Unfortunately, you have mishandled it and created even more. It appears to me that the person you banned from your race was trying to merely give constructive criticism. The result of that was a lot of people saying a lot of things about you here in this forum. Whether or not any of it is true, I don't know. But, judging just by the information on this post it is very evident that you are not getting to the heart of the real issue - your relationship with and image amongst the racers. Banning a racer because of his well-intended comments will not make up for this. He is not the source of your frustration. Those who jumped in and lambasted you on this forum are. You missed your target.
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  11. #86
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    A REAL world champ

    A real world championship? How 'bout one that actually includes races around the world?

    Want one that's cheap? How 'bout one that's cheaper than any 24HOA or Granny Gear race. One that includes a $20,000 cash purse, free camping, free spectating, and free massage for racers.

    Want to know the quality of the race? Ask around about Mountain Mayhem and Sleepless in the Saddle in the UK. These races sell out within 48 hours after the race registration opens, simply because they are great races run by an organizer who works for the racers.

    Bike Magazine agrees.

    Nat Ross designed the course

    Sleepless in the Saddle USA

    I know Laird, and I like him. I think he puts on great races. He's dedicated to the sport, and his passion shows through.
    Last edited by Cyclenaut; 08-29-2005 at 03:31 PM.
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  12. #87
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    I'm calling Bullsh** - Again

    Quote Originally Posted by twenty4 sports
    Never have I never stated that I started 24 hour racing... larid did. Producing great events is what we have been doing for years and yes these days we are challenged due to the lawsuit from Granny Gear against Trilife... the point is that he wants to own the rules and regulations to 24 hour mountain biking and if he would have won, precedence would have been set and everyone would need to pay the piper. The shear fact that you and larid spoke during the lawsuit speaks volumes. Continue putting on great events, and enjoy kicking a man when he is down.
    I've countered some of Stuart's other rhetoric, so why stop now? It's important that folks know the truth about Trilife. This kind of warped spin should not go unanswered.

    Let's break this down, line by line:
    Never have I never stated that I started 24 hour racing... larid did. Yes, I did. And how did I do that? Perhaps by writing the rules?

    these days we are challenged due to the lawsuit from Granny Gear against Trilife Considering that you got out from under $285,000 of debt and weaseled out of the $135,000 judgement that Granny Gear Productions won against you, exactly how is it that you are challenged? Isn't it you creditors who had to absorb your debts the ones who are now chllenged?

    ... the point is that he wants to own the rules and regulations to 24 hour mountain biking No, I only want to own the copyrighted rules that I wrote and crafted based on 12 years of mountain bike racing and race promoting. The rules that you saw fit to copy, verbatim, and use as your own. That's called copywrite infringement and a court of law found you guilty of it. Anyone is welcome to create their own set of rules to govern whatever kind of race they would like to create.

    and if he would have won, (We DID win) precedence would have been set and everyone would need to pay the piper. No, only those who wish to use MY rules need to pay, as several race promoters who sanction their events with AMTRI do. They get a handsome return on their investment by being able to get the credibility of using the original rules legitimately and attracting racers far and wide who are accustomed to these rules.

    The shear fact that you (Adam Rupell from Chico Racing a Canadian competitor to Stuart) and larid spoke during the lawsuit speaks volumes The only volume it speaks to me is that I really enjoyed meeting Adam. He a mountain biker's mountain biker. And while I've never attended one of his 24-hour races, he's earned a great reputation. No surprise to me. He's clearly dedicated to the sport.

    Continue putting on great events, and enjoy kicking a man when he is down. There you go again, playing the victim. For goodness sake, start taking responsibility. YOU created this.
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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by laird@grannygear.com
    I've countered some of Stuart's other rhetoric, so why stop now? It's important that folks know the truth about Trilife. This kind of warped spin should not go unanswered.

    Let's break this down, line by line:
    Never have I never stated that I started 24 hour racing... larid did. Yes, I did. And how did I do that? Perhaps by writing the rules?

    these days we are challenged due to the lawsuit from Granny Gear against Trilife Considering that you got out from under $285,000 of debt and weaseled out of the $135,000 judgement that Granny Gear Productions won against you, exactly how is it that you are challenged? Isn't it you creditors who had to absorb your debts the ones who are now chllenged?

    ... the point is that he wants to own the rules and regulations to 24 hour mountain biking No, I only want to own the copyrighted rules that I wrote and crafted based on 12 years of mountain bike racing and race promoting. The rules that you saw fit to copy, verbatim, and use as your own. That's called copywrite infringement and a court of law found you guilty of it. Anyone is welcome to create their own set of rules to govern whatever kind of race they would like to create.

    and if he would have won, (We DID win) precedence would have been set and everyone would need to pay the piper. No, only those who wish to use MY rules need to pay, as several race promoters who sanction their events with AMTRI do. They get a handsome return on their investment by being able to get the credibility of using the original rules legitimately and attracting racers far and wide who are accustomed to these rules.

    The shear fact that you (Adam Rupell from Chico Racing a Canadian competitor to Stuart) and larid spoke during the lawsuit speaks volumes The only volume it speaks to me is that I really enjoyed meeting Adam. He a mountain biker's mountain biker. And while I've never attended one of his 24-hour races, he's earned a great reputation. No surprise to me. He's clearly dedicated to the sport.

    Continue putting on great events, and enjoy kicking a man when he is down. There you go again, playing the victim. For goodness sake, start taking responsibility. YOU created this.

    Laird

    Thanks for clarifying the issue. I've always been confused by this supposed wanting to own the rules of 24 hour racing. It looks like Homer Simpson laziness and not taking the time to sit down to think up some original 24 hour racing rules caused the whole problem.
    You were just basically saying, "I wrote some rules. Go write your own because if you want to use mine there's a fee for that." Got it.

    Mario

  14. #89
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    Hey Laird, since you're here, any info on 24 Hours of Ozarks?? There's a whole mess of insane endurance racers in the KC area who are interested.

  15. #90
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    I guess the lesson learned here is "What comes around goes around".

  16. #91
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    No Refund if banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by sperky
    .........Kudos to Jeff for trying to clarify his point in a response instead of being upset about the rudeness of Stuart.

    Now the next question is how Stuart will handle Jeff's refund, particular since that is what started this whole thread in the first place.
    That was exactly my thought on this matter. Does a "NO REFUNDS" policy hold if the promoter bans a rider?

    Without knowing the full background to the two individuals it seems that Stuart may have been a little stressed with event organisation and that may be why he took the Soup Nasty approach (being PC). Let's face it there's competitors from all over the world coming along, a mate and his wife (sorry, volunteer) just left Australia for Canada today.

    Talking about 24HOA qualifiers, great events and BIG 24 hr races, we are 38 days away from the start of the 2005 MONT here in Canberra, Australia. 2,400 riders and an equal number of supporters will descend on Kowen Forest for our biggest 24hr race and probably one of the biggest in the world, at least in terms of numbers if not international status. Interestingly, it's still run by a club and not a professional promoter. The Mont

  17. #92
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    Ban me too!

    I've read the threads and I think Sturat is ridiculous!

    I raced my first 24hoa at Hurkey Creek this spring. I was on a 10 person coporate team. I was there to have fun and did. I decided not to go this fall because of the price. I'm not your typical racer, just an enthusiast who likes to ride a lot. I am very dissapointed to hear how 24hoa operates.

    Unless Sturat kisses some major a$$ and lifts his ban on Jeff and makes a public apology and makes things right I may never go back and I'm sure many more will do the same. Besides his price is getting out of control.

    If Sturat responds and straightens out this mess then good for him.

    If he doesn't then Fock 24hoa.

  18. #93
    Lawyer Time! No Comment.
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    Nothing left to lose, & half mad.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclenaut
    A real world championship? How 'bout one that actually includes races around the world?

    Want one that's cheap? How 'bout one that's cheaper than any 24HOA or Granny Gear race. One that includes a $20,000 cash purse, free camping, free spectating, and free massage for racers.

    Want to know the quality of the race? Ask around about Mountain Mayhem and Sleepless in the Saddle in the UK. These races sell out within 48 hours after the race registration opens, simply because they are great races run by an organizer who works for the racers.

    Bike Magazine agrees.

    Nat Ross designed the course

    Sleepless in the Saddle USA

    I know Laird, and I like him. I think he puts on great races. He's dedicated to the sport, and his passion shows through.

    I'm throwing my support behind these guys. I think in order to be a true World Championship the race should be held on more than one continent.

    Jim
    Fatter than most.

  20. #95
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    the last event i have done/will do with 24hoa was ths u.s. nat'ls. upon arriving his people charged me extra money for having my wife along as my support, but since she was not a racer they charged an extra $5. good thing they didn't see my 6mo. old boy in back! i had to track him down twice to get my money back, but i eventually did.

    the race event was a complete flop imo! no differentation between those of us competing in the nat'l solo competition vs those in the team or regular class. no assigned pits. no rankings. the course was not completed until the evening before, and it ended up being different than what they were initially telling riders.

    i also had numerous emails with stuart and his staff trying to get a copy of the dvd made/shown at the awards banquet the fall before at the 2004 wsc in whistler. i was promised on 3 different occasions, including in person at the nat'ls, that i would be getting one. i even offered to send him some helmet cam footage of the courses. glad i didn't waste my money with that!! until these issues are resolved i will not plan on attending another event.

    adam (chico) has done an awesome job! i suggest his events to all of my biking friends, and attend 3-4 of his events each year...1st class!!!! i am planning to attend a gg event soon as well as some other new promoters

    stuart, i urge you to consider the racers' comments and situations more seriously, and definitely follow through on your promises. i'm always glad to help out promoters when i have a chance as i know also how much work goes into preparing just the course to be raced.

  21. #96
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    Larid...

    I cannot wait to answer your BS...

    I will concentrate on the task at hand and will certainly tell the facts as they are, not what you state there are.

    Riders... ask Larid should anyone own the rules to 24 Hour Racing?

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by twenty4 sports
    I cannot wait to answer your BS...

    Riders... ask Larid should anyone own the rules to 24 Hour Racing?
    Yes, if Laird copyrighted them, which I believe he did, he should own the rights to them. Is there some reason that you can't write your own rules?

    Unbelievable that you plan to have this fight on the internet for all to witness.....a true professional!

    For your own sake and the "future of the sport".... take your grieveances out of the public eye.

    You have no idea how many people read these boards and base their opinions on what they read. I have a feeling this whole soap opera will haunt you for a while.

    B
    Last edited by donkey; 08-30-2005 at 09:02 PM.
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  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by twenty4 sports
    I cannot wait to answer your BS...

    I will concentrate on the task at hand and will certainly tell the facts as they are, not what you state there are.

    Riders... ask Larid should anyone own the rules to 24 Hour Racing?

    [pedantic]

    L-a-i-r-d

    [/pedantic]

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  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by twenty4 sports
    Riders... ask Larid should anyone own the rules to 24 Hour Racing?
    If they're his rules he does, you bunghole. You don't know when to shut up. The backlash from stupidly banning Jeff is going to be felt in your pocketbook for years. Shut up while everyone just thinks you're a dick and not a flaming *******. Word of mouth is murder when you stick your foot in your mouth like this. You should apologize, let jeff race free, and kiss ass for a year.

  25. #100
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    In the past Trilife/Twenty4Sports was organized behind the scenes by individuals who cared about the sport and did a pretty good job in spite of Mr.Dorland. Now that Twenty4 Sports is a one man show you are seeing the true Mr. Dorland shine through.

    His organization destroyed their reputation in a few short months locally in Ontario and even threatened a Canadian cycling website to supply the IP addresses of those who posted negative comments about Trilife/Twenty4 Sports because they wanted to seek legal action against them. The website administrator posted Stuart's wishes on their own site sending posters into even more of a frenzy.

    You've witnessed an athlete and customer of Twenty4 Sports who posted fair comments about Twenty4 Sports and for that he was banned from doing their "Worlds". This is terrible, but not surprising, as this is how Stuart treats many of his clients/participants or anyone who questions his policies. In turn he's generated more bad press for his company, and lost customers, yet he comes to post a rebutal to Laird instead of an apology to Jeff and retraction of the ban.

    Stuart it is obvious you made a rash decision against Jeff and you need to help him race at your 24 hour Worlds. You might salvage whatever is left of your reputation in the process.

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