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  1. #51
    mp3
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    Might as well ask here...

    Stuart

    Seeing as you keep tabs on the endurance racing forum and this thread, how about it?
    What do you say to transferring my WSC solo entry fee to Namrita? It's fine with me and I don't think she has a problem with it.

    Mario

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mp3
    I don't have not problem with the refund thing. That's standard with most races I've done.
    What I thought was silly and bothered me the most was not being able to transfer my entry fee to another Adrenalin event. I don't see what the problem is with that. Enlighten me. I could have raced Hurkey or Fountain hills solo but since I won't know till November I've already changed my race schedule. I don't ever plan on shutting up but I'll still race.

    As far as donating or transferring my fee to another racer perhaps you didn't read my previous post. Didn't sound like that was an option. BUT... If namrita shoots off an email to Stuart about transferring my solo entry fee to her and he say's yes them I'm game with that. Someone might as well get some fun out of it. Disputing the charges through the credit card company is not an option for me because I paid back in April...more then 60 days have passed.
    Hey Mario. I sent you an email. Let me know if you don't get it.

  3. #53
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Jeff Kerkove banned for comments!!!

    Hey, thought you all would like to know that Stuart Dorland has "suspended" Jeff Kerkove from any 24hrs of Adrenaline events for a year based on the comments he made in this thread! This means he cannot race at Worlds, an event he has been preparing for all year. I know Jeff will not respond to this action here, so I am taking the initiative to let you guys in on this preposterous action.

    An action based on someone voicing their opinion is one thing, but when the "retailer" ( in this case, 24hrs. of Adrenaline) refuses services, based on said opinions being expressed, to the customer, ( in this case, Mr. Kerkove) you have a very flawed business model. That is going to cause repurcussions of a most negative type for 24hrs. of Adrenaline, I'm afraid. I am not an endurance racer, but I work in retail, and I understand that this is a really bad thing to have happen.

    I know the details of this sad action, as I have read the e-mail that Jeff recieved today. I also am a co-worker of his, so this has all come to me first hand. This shall not go unnoticed!

  4. #54
    Grizzly
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    Jeff posted some details at his blog. http://jeffkerkove.blogspot.com
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    "The only thing better than solitude, is society."

    ~Ed Abbey

  5. #55
    No. Just No. Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Hey, thought you all would like to know that Stuart Dorland has "suspended" Jeff Kerkove from any 24hrs of Adrenaline events for a year based on the comments he made in this thread! This means he cannot race at Worlds, an event he has been preparing for all year.
    WIthout commenting on the merits of the situation, that is extremely disappointing. I'm sorry for you Jeff in the sense of it having been something you had worked and planned toward. Hopefully the resulting financial damages are minimal in terms of travel arrangements already booked, etc.

    While I can certainly appreciate the concept of a business owner having the right to refuse to engage in transactions with parties if they choose, I try not to think of mountain biking and 24hr events as a business. Instead I consider it just another flavour of mountain biking fun that just happens to have a business framework surrounding it. In reality I guess that's an idealized concept that doesn't really exist. Sad situation for everyone involved.

  6. #56
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    Did I do the right thing?

    Last year was the first 24 Hours of Pisgah, and here is what happened. On Thursday night/Friday morning before the race Hurricane Ivan came thru and devestated Western North Carolina (we were not alone by any means) 3 cabins at the venue were flattened and if anyone had been in them they would be dead. There was no power and no water, due to the emergency one could not rent a generator. One of the main roads (a 4 lane) to the venue was blocked by several mud slides. Places that had never been flooded in recorded history was under 5-6 feet of water. Several of us got on our cell phones (thank god they still worked) and called everyone who was traveling to the race to stop them. We actually reached all but one who then got on our forum and blasted me with every thing he had. Well I reschedualed for 2 weeks later. About a third of the teams could not make the new date. Some of those asked for refunds even though in big writing on the instruction page of the registration forms was NO REFUNDS. Well here is how I felt. I would be bankrupt if I refunded everyone, I wasn't comfortable taking peoples money with out giving them something in return, I had offerd an alternative date. What would you do? I said no refunds, but you can race next year on last years entry. Thanks to the folks who didn't ask for a refund

  7. #57
    MJLEBS6
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    No good This all sucks!

    I have been reading these various posts and wonder to myself what the H--L is this Stuart guy thinking. How can you ban one of the better endurance racers form entering one of your events. Jeff Kerkove has an active voice ( as we have seen it made an example of) in the 24 hour cycling community. He takes time to post meaningful blogs for his fans and foes alike. They are all able to read what his life as an endurance athlete is all about. Has anything happened to anyone else on that list? Jeff has obviously been targeted because he has such an influential voice in the 24 hour community. If there had been an "across the board" ban for all racers posting on this blog, I might say ok, but to target one person is ludicrous. The local events will continue to flourish with a-holes like this running events. Mr. Stuart, approx how much do you stand to make from this event. It would appear from an outsiders view that you are trying to get rich off the series and not just make a little profit to make the event better the following year. Good luck with your series Stuart, after this little fiasco, things may start going downhill faster for you.

  8. #58
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    Did I do the right thing?

    Last year was the first 24 Hours of Pisgah, and here is what happened. On Thursday night/Friday morning before the race Hurricane Ivan came thru and devestated Western North Carolina (we were not alone by any means) 3 cabins at the venue were flattened and if anyone had been in them they would be dead. There was no power and no water, due to the emergency one could not rent a generator. One of the main roads (a 4 lane) to the venue was blocked by several mud slides. Places that had never been flooded in recorded history was under 5-6 feet of water. Several of us got on our cell phones (thank god they still worked) and called everyone who was traveling to the race to stop them. We actually reached all but one who then got on our forum and blasted me with every thing he had. Well I reschedualed for 2 weeks later. About a third of the teams could not make the new date. Some of those asked for refunds even though in big writing on the instruction page of the registration forms was NO REFUNDS. Well here is how I felt. I would be bankrupt if I refunded everyone, I wasn't comfortable taking peoples money with out giving them something in return, I had offerd an alternative date. What would you do? I said no refunds, but you can race next year on last years entry. Thanks to the folks who didn't ask for a refund

  9. #59
    your ankles are fat
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    a drop in participation at adrenalin races will follow this for sure

    After reading these posts, I for one will no longer be participating in 24hrs of Adr. races. All hail the little guy who puts 24hr races on for the love of the sport. I would presume Trans Iowa 2006 won't be a "World Solo Qualifier." Sorry Jeff and those banned or not refunded their entries due to health/cancellation circumstances, I know how much these races mean to us all.
    Last edited by PaddyH; 08-26-2005 at 09:17 PM.

  10. #60
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    Yeah I gotta say this is really bogus. I would have gone to worlds too but could not afford it.
    But now with the way Stuart is acting I WILL NEVER be supporting his events. But if you already are paying him let me know and I will take your spot.
    -Jordan
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  11. #61
    Just passing through....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduro Adventures
    Last year was the first 24 Hours of Pisgah, and here is what happened. On Thursday night/Friday morning before the race Hurricane Ivan came thru and devestated Western North Carolina (we were not alone by any means) 3 cabins at the venue were flattened and if anyone had been in them they would be dead. There was no power and no water, due to the emergency one could not rent a generator. One of the main roads (a 4 lane) to the venue was blocked by several mud slides. Places that had never been flooded in recorded history was under 5-6 feet of water. Several of us got on our cell phones (thank god they still worked) and called everyone who was traveling to the race to stop them. We actually reached all but one who then got on our forum and blasted me with every thing he had. Well I reschedualed for 2 weeks later. About a third of the teams could not make the new date. Some of those asked for refunds even though in big writing on the instruction page of the registration forms was NO REFUNDS. Well here is how I felt. I would be bankrupt if I refunded everyone, I wasn't comfortable taking peoples money with out giving them something in return, I had offerd an alternative date. What would you do? I said no refunds, but you can race next year on last years entry. Thanks to the folks who didn't ask for a refund

    You clearly did the right thing, based on the circumstances. There isn't a whole lot more that you could do. A hurricane cannot be helped, and you are doing what you can. Sounds like the right thing to me.
    If you want to play with electricity, more power to ya......

  12. #62
    Just passing through....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Hey, thought you all would like to know that Stuart Dorland has "suspended" Jeff Kerkove from any 24hrs of Adrenaline events for a year based on the comments he made in this thread! T
    Amazing. I guess Stuart somehow does not think that he is "hurting the sport" by doing this, but he could not be more wrong. Fortunately, the sport is bigger than him. My guess is that this is going to reverberate through the 24 hr race community, and Stuart is going to find himself regretting this foolish action.
    If you want to play with electricity, more power to ya......

  13. #63
    Sweat is just fat crying.
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    Does anyone else find it odd...

    ...that with every reference to Laird, he spells it "larid"?

    Weird, imo.

    fp

  14. #64
    mp3
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    The racers make the race

    24 Hours of Adrenalin has made a mistake by barring Jeff from participating in their events for one year. 24 hour racing is no longer the nascent community it once was. 24 Hours of Adrenalin is not “THE” community any longer. There are numerous other 24-hour venues across the country that provide outlets to have fun and compete at a reasonable cost. And I’m sure that a good number of event promoters are in it because of passion and not primarily for profit like Adrenalin. Perhaps 24 HOA has forgotten that it exists only because of the racers. The weekend warriors, like myself, make up the bulk of Adrenalin’s profit and the elite racers make the Whistler event the “world” championship. Take away the elite racers and there is no championship. Take away the profit base by continuing to charge high prices and providing poor services then you have no more mediocre events. Perhaps it’s time for the 24-hour community to throw their weight behind regional events and alternative championship events/series. Perhaps a boycott of 24HOA events will drive the point home…it’s the racers who say (with their entry fees) what is and what is not.

  15. #65
    Village Dirtbag
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    Wow. Could Stuart have *gasp* hurt the sport!? I think maybe he did.

    Also, to Enduro Adventures- I don't think people were concerned that he doesn't offer a refund, but that
    1) he doesn't spell out his refund policy in advance, and
    2) said, on page one of this thread "I never said no refunds". WTF?

    I think people would've been fine with a transfer to another rider or a postponment to another race.

    Yup...hurting the sport.

  16. #66
    When did you get here?!?!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduro Adventures
    Last year was the first 24 Hours of Pisgah, and here is what happened. On Thursday night/Friday morning before the race Hurricane Ivan came thru and devestated Western North Carolina (we were not alone by any means) 3 cabins at the venue were flattened and if anyone had been in them they would be dead. There was no power and no water, due to the emergency one could not rent a generator. One of the main roads (a 4 lane) to the venue was blocked by several mud slides. Places that had never been flooded in recorded history was under 5-6 feet of water. Several of us got on our cell phones (thank god they still worked) and called everyone who was traveling to the race to stop them. We actually reached all but one who then got on our forum and blasted me with every thing he had. Well I reschedualed for 2 weeks later. About a third of the teams could not make the new date. Some of those asked for refunds even though in big writing on the instruction page of the registration forms was NO REFUNDS. Well here is how I felt. I would be bankrupt if I refunded everyone, I wasn't comfortable taking peoples money with out giving them something in return, I had offerd an alternative date. What would you do? I said no refunds, but you can race next year on last years entry. Thanks to the folks who didn't ask for a refund

    YES! You did the right thing!
    Ken,
    The circumstances that led to you needing to rescedule the race can only be described as 'an act of god'. Maybe I missed it but has Stuart ever come out and said exactly why he moved the date of conyers? Is he forcasting a hurricane? It's unfortunate that you weren't able to get ahold of that one team to tell them the race date was moved but, I don't know, if I showed up that weekend, it would have been immediately clear that to try to race was not a good idea. Death! Distruction! Chaos! No Water! No Power! Landslides! Landslides! Landslides! A year later they are still repairing landslides.
    Eric

    p.s. I don't have your snailmail address, I dropped a few Double Dare entry forms off with Vicky. Hope to see you and JT there!
    You can please some people sometimes but you can't please all the people all the time.
    ERIC'S RIDE LOG

  17. #67
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    Racers need to take action

    I am the girl with Mono. I think I really started this whole thing with Stuart. My beef originally, was that his refund policy, clearly states that if a solo racer notifies him 30 days prior to the race that you would be refunded 1/2 of your entry. I was told no refunds.

    Due to the circumstances that have taken place since, I have dediced that the community of racers should be able to do something. There are many of you out their, that will not see refunds, due to date changes, illness, or because Stuart has decided to ban you from his races.

    I originally requested a transfer into another event, or to another person and was told no as well.

    This past Friday, I made a trip over to my Lawyer. My husband and I took all the emails we had revieved from Stuart, a copy of his refund policy, and related expenses material.
    Our Lawyer, advised us that we do have a valid case, since his refund policy is so clearly stated, and since he is operating under a business, he is responsible to uphold certain regulations.

    Our lawyer also advised us, that our case would be even more substantial, and devestating to him if we had other racers involved with similair circumstances. If you would like more information please contact me.

    I will hope to see that we all follow through with are gut feelings on this issue, and do not let things just go. Someone needs to be held responsible.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduro Adventures
    Some of those asked for refunds even though in big writing on the instruction page of the registration forms was NO REFUNDS. Well here is how I felt. I would be bankrupt if I refunded everyone
    Google for "risk management." You take out event insurance for this kind of thing, you don't go bankrupt, and your participants go away happy.

    RFM

  19. #69
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    I used to do 24 HOA races...in fact I've probably done more than 10 of their races (including the World Solo Championships) and I find this so disappointing. I don't race 24 HOA races any more because they don't do any in Ontario...which is where they started the whole thing! Each year they lose their best venues (this year it was Canmore which used to be their only sellout, year before was Hardwood Hills) and it seems this trend will continue. In fact I just recently rec'd an email asking if I wanted to do the race (via Grandfather clause) in Whistler which indicates, in my opinion, their numbers are down and they are getting desperate. I always enjoyed their races and it was my perogative to pay the entry so why people complain about the fee is ridiculous....there are so many other races to do for so much less....just hit up one of those instead. The problem with 24 HOA is the attitude given on these forums....they are rude, inconsistent and a complete turnoff. To title the response to Jeff Kerkove as "Dear Jeffy" just reminds me of kids calling each other names in elementary school. Kudos to Jeff for trying to clarify his point in a response instead of being upset about the rudeness of Stuart.

    Now the next question is how Stuart will handle Jeff's refund, particular since that is what started this whole thread in the first place.

  20. #70
    Complete Bastard
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    Quote Originally Posted by twenty4 sports
    As for the post regarding fees etc; I appreciate each individuals right to speak your mind.

    Hahahha NOT!

    24HOA sucks, I'm letting every mtber I know, especially endurance racers, know about this. Don't support these *******s.

  21. #71
    "Ride Lots" - Eddie Mercx
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    a few additional comments and observations

    I've raced 7 24HOA events, one Granny Gear, and one Epic Rides event in the Southern CA and southwest area.

    having competed in 24 hour events from three different promoter at least gave me some perspective.

    all three put on a great event. But..........only 24HOA REQUIRES a volunteer. not only do you get the pleasure of forking out a lot of money in addition to whatever additional fees the venue requires you to pay, but you have to have somebody to provide FREE labor to the company profiting from the event!

    the problem with this is that when you travel to participate in an event, sometimes for a great distance, you can't always bring a wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/life partner/significant other/ect. to act as this free labor. Even if you are able to bring your family, if you have kids preventing that person from leaving camp then you're still screwed. it's hard enough to get 3 or 4 friends to travel adn commit to participating in a race but to then have to find a person who's only purpose is to provide labor or face a DQ then that's just wrong. if teams paid more by not providing a volunteer then that's great but if I can't bring a volunteer and I can't get a refund but I'll get a DQ without a volunteer WTF am I supposed to do? Just not register and compete at an event that won't DQ my team!

    GG does not require a volunteer. Epic Rides does not require a volunteer. both put on events close to my home. if I only pick one event to participate in, which one may it be?

    Secondly, 24HOA timing and scorekeeping sucks! GG had RFID cards several years ago. Epic used computers to update lap times instantly. 24HOA, for all the expense that the racers paid, had scorekeeping that was usually 3 or 4 laps behind the current state of events!

    Finally, since it's all really about the T-shirt anyway, GG provides a T-shirt custom to the venue so if you do two GG events, you get two different T-shirts. 24HOA uses the same T-shirt for the entire season so if you do two events, you get two identical T-shirts (if you didn't get DQ'd for not bringing a volunteer along in the first place!).

    The fall Hurkey Creek 24HOA event is always good and on a good course. the spring event has coincided with the GG event (hmmmm, wonder why?). yet the spring HC event always lacks riders. could it be because we don't feel the need to pay to ride the same course twice in one year when there's another event just down the street.

    I know that promoting races is a business and they need to make money. But, one can't ignore the customer when there are other options available. and who focking cars if Laird was trying to patent or copyright or whatever 24 hours of anything? it doesn't take a marketing genius to then just come up wtih the 23 hours and 59 minutes of adrenaline to get arouond the issue anyway!@#$@#!!

    I'll continue to pick and choose which events I choose to enter but it's comforting to know that there are choices I can make. I can base my decision on several factors and I'm not stuck to any one promotor or event.

    YR

    How do others feel?[/QUOTE]

  22. #72
    giddy up!
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    Sturat-

    Might as well throw me on your banned list as well. After 4 or 5 Idyllwild events I'll not be back. The course is great but I can't see why I should support 24HOA when you've exhibited to the endurance community that you won't support us.

    Let's not be hypocrites folks....support the local promoter that actually cares about the community and will still be around after the circus leaves town.

    I never saw the point of a midnight corn roast anyway.

    B
    Last edited by donkey; 08-28-2005 at 06:19 PM.
    www.thepathbikeshop.com

  23. #73
    Jed Peters
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    What is it about bike racers that cannot spell?

    Jeez!

  24. #74
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    I did the 24HOA Worlds in Whistler and didn't plan on returning due to the high cost. Being charged for a crummy web site was a total slap in the face. Banning Jeff is the nail in the coffin.

    Please add me to the banned-for-life list.

    I've got plenty to do with Trans-Iowa, Leadville, Lumberjack, and Boyne.

  25. #75
    Its only 1" on the map!
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    A one year sounds fine to me

    I pledge to not to do a 24HOA event for at least one year.

    Epic Rides - I'll see you in Tucson
    Granny Gear - I'll see you in Temecula

    Both of these folks put on great events, they are cheaper, and they do not require volunteers.

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