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Thread: 2007 KTR Update

  1. #1
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    2007 KTR Update

    Here's the update: there ain't gonna be one.

    To all those that have called, emailed, and PM'ed me about this: Please, stop. I'm truly glad that the race captured your imagination and made you suffer and see god and all that. It was a great race. But my involvement in it has come to an end.

    No amount of pleas, offers to build a website, offers to have your SO police the course, offers to register a domain name, offers to provide coffee and donuts at the start, etc... will make any difference.

    I enjoyed the race for the few years I ran it, but I'm now happily moving on to other things.

    Here's an idea: if you want the race to happen, organize it. That's all it takes, mostly.

    Cheers,

    MC

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    No amount of pleas, offers to build a website, offers to have your SO police the course, offers to register a domain name, offers to provide coffee and donuts at the start, etc... will make any difference.
    How bout some Hookers and blow?

    Just kidding, after reading the thread from last year I understand, but hopefully someone will pick it up again one day.

  3. #3
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    Thanks for organzing the race in the first place. Twas a good run it seems.

    Now....hopefully one of ya'll will step up and organize this thing. Too perfect of a course to not hold a race out there.

    B
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    Wink

    So Mike, does that mean you're organizing the CT race this year

  5. #5
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    May 4th

    Closest Friday to a full moon, full on May 2.

    I'm not really looking to organize, but was curious about possible days.

    I vote that those who want to race show up, someone says go we go.

    Past threads should be more than enough information for anyone wanting to attempt. MC rules apply, enough said.

    Sure this thing could be organized to death, but why? You cheat you suck. You want support, pay for a tour, you want to see what you are made of, show up ready to ride at midnight.

    jim
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    Full moon

    Full moon and the date sounds good to me. I just want to start with all you other wackos.
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  7. #7
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    May 4th is good

    Quote Originally Posted by Soloracer
    Closest Friday to a full moon, full on May 2.

    I'm not really looking to organize, but was curious about possible days.

    I vote that those who want to race show up, someone says go we go.

    Past threads should be more than enough information for anyone wanting to attempt. MC rules apply, enough said.

    Sure this thing could be organized to death, but why? You cheat you suck. You want support, pay for a tour, you want to see what you are made of, show up ready to ride at midnight.

    jim

    It’s marked on my calendar , so barring the big unforeseen circumstances, hope to see you all there

  8. #8
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    May 4th looks good. I will plan to be there.
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    Ok I admit it...

    I'm the mega dork that snapped up the domain and volunteered to build the website.

    If you guys want to build a site for next years race, let me know and we can figure something out for hosting, etc. I think it would be great to have pics from the previous races.

    Changing the subject slightly, if the race goes ahead should there be KTR police watching for people getting help on the down low?

    Maybe we could post pictures afterwards with big red X's on the faces of the people who cheated...
    Sorry what?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulletbob
    I'm the mega dork that snapped up the domain and volunteered to build the website.

    If you guys want to build a site for next years race, let me know and we can figure something out for hosting, etc. I think it would be great to have pics from the previous races.

    Changing the subject slightly, if the race goes ahead should there be KTR police watching for people getting help on the down low?

    Maybe we could post pictures afterwards with big red X's on the faces of the people who cheated...
    I have a few pics you are welcome to use. Another idea is just setting up a free blog ala the Trans Iowa....
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulletbob
    Changing the subject slightly, if the race goes ahead should there be KTR police watching for people getting help on the down low?

    Maybe we could post pictures afterwards with big red X's on the faces of the people who cheated...
    F-em! If they want to cheat, let the karma police get them. If anyone finds out about cheating, any public humiliation is welcome in my book. I don't think we should police the course since that is anti everything these type of races are. It was kinda cool that this race got so big, but it also sucked big time.
    Fatter than most.

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    2007?

    So is the race a go in 2007? I found this on the web.
    http://greatdividerace.com/_wsn/page4.html
    I am hoping this is true.

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    Glr

    Quote Originally Posted by mn_ultra_guy
    So is the race a go in 2007? I found this on the web.
    http://greatdividerace.com/_wsn/page4.html
    I am hoping this is true.
    That link is the grand loop race, not KTR.
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    KTR vs Grand loop

    Thanks for the clarifcation. I am glad the GLR is on for 2007, but too bad about the KTR unless we hear something this winter.

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    racin

    Quote Originally Posted by mn_ultra_guy
    Thanks for the clarifcation. I am glad the GLR is on for 2007, but too bad about the KTR unless we hear something this winter.
    KTR is on, just not with Mikesee AFAIK. May 4th. Be there or be square. I'm going by whatever is decided here.

    I will be at GLR too. Woohoo!
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  16. #16
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    5/4.

    Long enough that fitness is no excuse.

    I'm telling my people immediately....

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    I'm in, would there be any interest in post race party???

  18. #18
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    If thats true and the race is on i'm in .

  19. #19
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    I set up an information site. It is probably not needed, but hey why not!?!

    Mike, hope you don't mind, but I copied and pasted your rules from the '06 thread.

    http://kokopellitrailrace.blogspot.com/
    Last edited by alizbee; 10-26-2006 at 12:35 PM.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by alizbee
    I set up an information site. It is probably not needed, but hey why not!?!

    Mike, hope you don't mind, but I copied and pasted your rules form the '06 thread.

    http://kokopellitrailrace.blogspot.com/
    Don't mind a bit. Good on ya.

    MC

  21. #21
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    Cool. I'll see all you nutters out there!

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    To all you ktr people. Once again the black hills of south dakota will be represented. I am recovering for a bicycle/ car accident. Shattered femur and tibia/fibula 3 rods 16 pins. But I will be there with bells on and ready to ride

  23. #23
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    hummm

    mabe i'll have to do it.....

    try and set the fixie record...


    this year I'm gonna be tired
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    just a guy who loves bikes and exploring

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    what is the ktr record time? i am pondering this one. how much route finding is involvrd and is it obvious where you get water?
    thanks,
    ryon

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by butryon
    what is the ktr record time? i am pondering this one. how much route finding is involvrd and is it obvious where you get water?
    thanks,
    ryon
    KTR record was recently broken by Dave Harris. New record=12:41

    Sometimes the route is easy to follow, other times it is tricky. Maps are invaluable, as well as just simply paying attention, and looking for the signage.

    It is pretty apparent where to get water. Going to Westwater will take you off course a bit.
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  26. #26
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    Just curious...

    Quote Originally Posted by ionsmuse
    5/4.

    Long enough that fitness is no excuse.

    I'm telling my people immediately....
    Who are your people? Should your people talk with my people, touch base and do lunch?
    Sorry what?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulletbob
    Who are your people? Should your people talk with my people, touch base and do lunch?
    I am my people.

    All of them.


    If talking involves doing prerides on the course after Xmas, the part that isn't covered in snow that is, then yes. A veteran of last year told me last week that he "highly" recommends recon. Sounds like some folks got a we bit confunded this spring.

  28. #28
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    GPS 'legal'?

    I've been wondering if using gps to mark any potentially confusing spots is ok within the spirit of the rules?

    I don't think anyone would resort to navigating like a rally car but it would be cheap insurance.
    Sorry what?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulletbob
    I've been wondering if using gps to mark any potentially confusing spots is ok within the spirit of the rules?

    I don't think anyone would resort to navigating like a rally car but it would be cheap insurance.
    Yes, that's "legal". I really don't think it's that necessary for the KTR though. Study the map well, and maybe just program up a few intersections should be more than enough.

  30. #30
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    Yep

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    Yes, that's "legal". I really don't think it's that necessary for the KTR though. Study the map well, and maybe just program up a few intersections should be more than enough.
    That's all I was getting at, just a few important waypoints so I'm going the right direction...
    Sorry what?

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    Going to be down there riding KTR the week before your guys race as part of a multisport holiday with my wife. Planning on doing it in 2 or 3 chunks, depending on fitness by the time spring rolls around. Anyway, anyone have an idea on the condition of Onion Creek Road leading up to Fisher Valley? I'm thinking of that being one of our campsites, but am uncertain as to the condition of the road.

    Anyway, regardless, good luck with your race. I'm thinking that if my time down there goes well this spring, then maybe you'll see me back for the solo self-supported race in 2008.

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    [QUOTE=EnduroDoug] Anyway, anyone have an idea on the condition of Onion Creek Road leading up to Fisher Valley? I'm thinking of that being one of our campsites, but am uncertain as to the condition of the road.
    QUOTE]

    I've seen passenger cars make it up Onion Creek. Several stream crossings (actually more like a dozen). I would not try it in a Mini, but my Subaru could make it.

    jim
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    Don't know you from.....

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Here's the update: there ain't gonna be one.

    To all those that have called, emailed, and PM'ed me about this: Please, stop. I'm truly glad that the race captured your imagination and made you suffer and see god and all that. It was a great race. But my involvement in it has come to an end.

    No amount of pleas, offers to build a website, offers to have your SO police the course, offers to register a domain name, offers to provide coffee and donuts at the start, etc... will make any difference.

    I enjoyed the race for the few years I ran it, but I'm now happily moving on to other things.

    Here's an idea: if you want the race to happen, organize it. That's all it takes, mostly.

    Cheers,

    MC
    ...."Adam" - but to you I say THANK YOU for your past efforts. They have added enjoyment to many peoples lives.

    Thanks, C
    Grand claims demand grand proof.

  34. #34
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    I am curious to all that have posted here, everyone on this thread says May 4th with the full moon. But the new web blog site for the race states May 19th as THE start date... So which is it???

    The 19th is just after the new moon ie no moon light!!! at least the 4th has a Waning Gibbous moon... what gives??
    "On yere Bike!!!!",

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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon448
    I am curious to all that have posted here, everyone on this thread says May 4th with the full moon. But the new web blog site for the race states May 19th as THE start date... So which is it???

    The 19th is just after the new moon ie no moon light!!! at least the 4th has a Waning Gibbous moon... what gives??
    THIS is the official KTR '07 site to bookmark:

    http://kokopellitrailrace.blogspot.com/

    Ed E

  36. #36
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    [QUOTE=Brandon448] So which is it???
    QUOTE]

    I proposed the first date to get things rolling based on the moon and what would fit my racing schedule. Since I did not really want to organize it more than a date and a start time, one of the other members took charge and changed the date due to potential snow issues. It looks like the "official" date is the later date. Ed pointed you in right direction. I'll probably be out on the trail the original weekend working out my gear, might bivy to ensure I have everything dialed in or I just may ride straight through.

    Jim
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  37. #37
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    Ok thanks guys I apprechiate the help That is unfortunately the same weekend as my daughters birthday so no go for me this year hopefully next year!! Thanks!!
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    Brandon Lockwood, KCH Inc.
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  38. #38
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    This race is getting close....

    For some reason today, I needed to find a way to self inflict some pain in mid-May. This event has become a very viable option now.

    So what the heck does everyone suggest carrying? Filter water?

    Just trying to get an idea of the inner vibe of this event.

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    Thanks Jeff for digging this thread up, as I couldn't find it the other day when looking.

    Soloracer, thanks for the feedback on Onion Creek road, I expect we'll have little trouble in our AWD Element -- that thing has done wonders for us so far.

    Now onto the topic at hand... does anyone have a 29er tire they recommend for Kokopelli? I just mounted 2.1 Ignitors to my "good set" of wheels but figure I'll need something with a bit more float for Kokopelli, Porcupine, and Slickrock. Any recommendations from those who have 29'd it before? I'm looking for suggestions in the 2.2 to 2.35 range. Thanks!

  40. #40
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    My "plan":

    I ride a rigid SS, and I'll be using Weirwolf's front and rear. I've used a Nano out back, but the added comfort, traction, and float is more valuable than the slightly reduced rolling resistance.

    For water, I'll likely start with a gallon on the back and two bottles, then refill at the river and again when necessary in the mountains. Conditions dependent. I don't mind iodine and thus do not own a filter.

    Lots of food. The usual: bloks, candy, dried critter.

    If the weather is "good," extra clothing should not be excessive.

    Gotta get a good light.

    What gear? Seems like the lowest I can have to not be spun out through Rabbit and Westwater, or maybe go tall and just hike fast on the climbs. Hmmmm.....

    I have a feeling I may be making a trip up to preride, though pulling an Ed and doing it onsight has appeal. I've ridden basically none of the course!

  41. #41
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    If you're in it to win it

    Quote Originally Posted by KERKOVEJ
    So what the heck does everyone suggest carrying? Filter water?

    No filters, takes way too long. Tablets are an option. If I remember right, Jon and most of the top finishers carried all they needed. But that was years past, this year, different monster. Desert at night, mountains by day. Me? I think I'll just carry some beers.

    jim
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    Anyone have a post ride plan?

    Hello y';all, hoping to ride this thing and was wondering if there will be any post ride thing going on and anyone have an idea to get folks back to the trailhead? A car pool would be a great idea, just throwing that out there. As far as the race goes i hope to have enough water to make it to Fischer creek, but can make an early call at westwater. I rode it in the Grand Loop last year and needed alot of water but this should be a bit easier i hope. Looking forward to it see y';all there. Jefe

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soloracer
    Me? I think I'll just carry some beers.

    jim
    Jim, Yes, but you've got competition experience here. I'd recommend others make sure they've used this in training prior to the event!

    Dave, Do you plan to drink CO river water with just tablets? I think Fisher Creek would be OK, but CO water seems a bit 'thick' for that.

    I carried a lot of water last year. Over 300oz. I did drink it all, but my pack was so heavy at the start that I couldn't breathe well. I'm rethinking this for 2007. I think the top five finishers last year were about as varied as you can get in terms of gear and water used. Some filtered, some carried all, some needed more than others, ultralight, fully equipped, etc...

    It's definitely important to figure out what works for the individual. Jon Brown may race well on limited water, but obviously knows what he's doing. Most others would be quickly lying dehydrated on the side of the trail if they tried to race on that amount. I think a quick look through some of the reports from last years race illustrates what caused most people issues...

    FW

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by KERKOVEJ
    For some reason today, I needed to find a way to self inflict some pain in mid-May. This event has become a very viable option now.

    So what the heck does everyone suggest carrying? Filter water?

    Just trying to get an idea of the inner vibe of this event.
    It would be great to have you out in the desert!

    There is lots of good conversation here:
    Kokopelli trail race

    I am still debating my water strategy for the Fruita-->Moab direction. Last year I carried enough to get to Westwater. I refilled there, and still ran out before I finished. Rabbit Valley and beyond was wilting.

    I am thinking that this year I want to be a bit better lit for the desert. More light could mean more speed on those rabbit filled double tracks and dirt roads. Not that I will be hammering, but some nice throw should help things move along
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  45. #45
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    Lots of options for water

    Quote Originally Posted by KERKOVEJ
    For some reason today, I needed to find a way to self inflict some pain in mid-May. This event has become a very viable option now.

    So what the heck does everyone suggest carrying? Filter water?

    Just trying to get an idea of the inner vibe of this event.
    Goes without saying what’s best for one is not best for………….

    Among the many many options you could:

    Carry all you need (seems some what counter productive to me unless you can safely get by on less than 200 oz) Call this the hard hard core racer option, better know what you are doing and carry some tablets for backup!

    Start light on liquid, ride fast and enjoy the cool night air and stop at Westwater. No filter needed here but Westwater is off course a bit and you still have the main/hot part of the day in front of you.

    Start med on liquid and just tablet—fast, (yuk yuk on the silt, but some did this last yr and lived to tell the tale) or filter+tablet—slow, from the silty Colorado River at Cisco Landing (or do it just a bit farther on at the ST that goes right next to the river at about mile 65)

    Start med/full and tablet+filter at about ½ way point at Dewey Bridge (I am thinking of doing this option as I would then start the hot long climb with semi-cool fluid to drink and if needed get in a quick soak to chill down my legs in the river while I filter)

    Note: Fisher Creek crosses the trail about mile 109, creek runs strong and clear and you could just tablet (better tablet as there are cows in the area) the water here. However there is no reason to stop here if you still have a bottle or two left, unless you just need the cool water/break as its mostly down hill, there IS one major but non-tech climb left.
    IMO, If it’s a cooler day I do think many of the hard core racer types will try to make it at least to Fisher Creek and if needed do a fast light (1 maybe 2 bottle) quick tablet-only fill.

    Enjoy
    ½ the fun of this event is trying to figure out the best personal water strategy and much of what we learned last yr from the Moab--Loma does not apply this yr for Loma--Moab
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by frejwilk

    Dave, Do you plan to drink CO river water with just tablets? I think Fisher Creek would be OK, but CO water seems a bit 'thick' for that.

    FW
    Mineral supplements, dude.





    In all seriousness, that sort of thing just doesn't bug me. Back in the day, waaay in the middle of nowhere in Escalante country, friends and I were reduced to filtering from a 10' by 2" pool. Even filtered and sitting overnight, the water remained fully silted, the image of chocolate milk. Tasted fine, especially if you didn't look.

    Some can't stand silt, others can't stand iodine. I can't stand the arm workout of filtering, it tends to give my arms unneeded bulk that just slows me down. So I don't use them.

    Jim, Adam, and the rest who actually know what they're talking about make good points. I'll likely carry "a lot" but not a full bore load, and see when I need to refill.


    As for apres-race plans, I have a wonderful SO who has agreed to be shuttle driver. I'm also hoping to convince her to make a pizza run to keep the finish area well supplied. No agoraphobia inducing restaurant experiences this time, eh Ed?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ionsmuse
    Jim, Adam, and the rest who actually know what they're talking about make good points. I'll likely carry "a lot" but not a full bore load, and see when I need to refill.

    As for apres-race plans, I have a wonderful SO who has agreed to be shuttle driver. I'm also hoping to convince her to make a pizza run to keep the finish area well supplied. No agoraphobia inducing restaurant experiences this time, eh Ed?
    Woo-hoo! I'll be pre-riding this weekend if anyone is out there. Loma to Dewey Bridge with a couple of friends. Dewey Bridge to Moab pre-ride tentatively set for Apr 21 or 22.

    LOL, I don't like crowds when I'm feeling good Dave! When I'm wasted, hungry and cranky after a long ride, well I get pretty ornery waiting for food!!!

    KTR post-ride plans/logisitics have not been made yet.

    Similar to Fred's experience, I carried 300 ozs. on my back + water bottles last year and I won't do that again this year even if it does mean I will partake of silty CO river H2O. I'm kind of like you Dave, I used to drink out of lakes, streams, muddly puddles, whatever it all worked ok. Nowadays it seems like people freak if you lick a dew-dampened aspen leaf! Dave Harris had a nice lead last year until he had to filter and had problems with the filter - lost something like 20 minutes and Jon B passed him. Jon had an amazing ride and did it on very little fuel/water - be careful emulating him.

    This year will be much different with the course being reversed. I am looking forward to an entirely new challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soloracer
    I think I'll just carry some beers.
    Seriously, are you lining up this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by EnduroDoug
    Now onto the topic at hand... does anyone have a 29er tire they recommend for Kokopelli?
    I rode Exi's front/rear last year on my rigid ss Walt 29'er, they worked fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by alizbee
    I am thinking that this year I want to be a bit better lit for the desert.
    Last year the moon was bright, this year

    Ed E
    Last edited by edemtbs; 04-04-2007 at 10:17 PM.

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    Water, tires, yada, yada

    Ya gotta bring what works for you Jeff and only you can really decide that. Plus your goals play into it too. Want to finish? Be conservative. Willing to risk a DNF? Go light and hope it works out for you. There's plenty of info on what you're up against here and in the old threads. It's a long race and dehydration has been the downfall of many at KTR but there is water around and you just have to decide how you want to play the game and how fast you're really going to go <gulp>.

    I'll most likely be of the light water strategy with tablets or UV for dewey bridge or fisher creek but it's going to be weather dependent. I certainly won't haul more than 180 oz on my back and it will likely be only 90oz plus maybe a bottle or two. After the Rim Ride I decided that 180oz was about all the water weight I want to carry in the pack I'll be using at KTR.

    Tires will probably be 2.1 racing ralphs with lotsa sealant. Been working well for me the majority of the time.

    Post race my wife will be shuttling with the Element. She already ditched another ride to be here for me so I'm pretty sure she'll be up for whatever I need. We'll be happy to accomodate other racers post race as we're able. Looking quite forward to it!
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ionsmuse
    I have a feeling I may be making a trip up to preride, though pulling an Ed and doing it onsight has appeal. I've ridden basically none of the course!
    Even though the KT course is a bit more straighforward than the Rim Ride course and will be marked with the carsonite KT markers, it will not have nice blue ribbons at key intersections and some KT signs may be red-necked into oblivion. Could be a very tough challenge pulling an "Ed"!

    Ed E

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    Even though the KT course is a bit more straighforward than the Rim Ride course and will be marked with the carsonite KT markers, it will not have nice blue ribbons at key intersections and some KT signs may be red-necked into oblivion. Could be a very tough challenge pulling an "Ed"!

    Ed E
    Agreed. Ask Dejay Birtch about this. Many others have missed key turns (including some who should know better!). That said, the trail is pretty easy to follow. As always, I recommend those Latitude 40 maps. Grand Junction, and Moab East being the two needed here.

    I may see you out there this weekend Ed. If I'm riding that area it will probably be late Friday through mid day Saturday heading east. Are you planning one day or two? Camping along the course? See you maybe,

    FW

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    Quote Originally Posted by frejwilk
    I may see you out there this weekend Ed.
    Fred - we'll keep an eye out for you. We're starting Sat. early in Loma and heading west to Dewey, planning to complete late Sat. We should be crossing paths.

    Ed

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    5 bottles

    And maybe a 60oz on the back if it looks like it might be hot

    Not sure on all the rides/motel stuff yet more then a month away

    Jeff it would be lovely to have yah out of the midwest
    Read my BLOG!

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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    Dewey Bridge to Moab pre-ride tentatively set for Apr 21 or 22.
    Ed E
    I was planning a Rim Ride redo that weekend, maybe I need to alter those plans. Of course if I can get down there Friday I could do both the RR and a Dewey-->Moab ride
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    Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by KERKOVEJ
    For some reason today, I needed to find a way to self inflict some pain in mid-May. This event has become a very viable option now.

    So what the heck does everyone suggest carrying? Filter water?

    Just trying to get an idea of the inner vibe of this event.
    Like others have said, it all depends on your goals for the event. Along those lines, I'd suggest as a first time KTR rider that finishing is the best goal. KTR is a lot to bite off if this sort of thing is new to you. It's long, hot, arid, and finishes with a bit of elevation. A DNF will haunt you for a long time...a finish will be most rewarding.

    Last year in the "race" I had a conservative plan - lots of food and fluids on board. A filter malfunction damn near ended my race at McGraw nonetheless... The 2nd time I rode it last year I was a lot lighter (although still filtered - twice!) and was well over an hour faster.

    And if you want to race for the W, I'll state right now the event will be won or lost in the first ~80 miles.
    Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    And if you want to race for the W, I'll state right now the event will be won or lost in the first ~80 miles.
    Interesting...

    I was going over some trail details last night. I think the "elevation" in the second half is going to be killer. The miles pass quickly when you are in the dark, bombing down them. But in the heat, going up, and there is more up than I remember, they will tick by slowly.

    The mojo from this event is starting to thicken, and I can feel myself getting excited for it once again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    And if you want to race for the W, I'll state right now the event will be won or lost in the first ~80 miles.
    Interesting, indeed!

    On one hand, if it turns out to be a hot day, and you don't get to Fisher Valley before things really start heating up, the section from Dewey to Fisher Valley, while only 18 miles, may be death incarnate.

    On the other hand, to actually make it to Fisher Valley before the heat of the day sets in, you gotta be movin' so fast that the remaining 7000+ vertical feet to the finish may be death incarnate.

    I'm actually getting a bit tired of the KT (shouldn't it really be the Kokopelli Road?!), and since I'm gonna do the GLR again, I wasn't sure about doing the KTR again this year. But, ya'll are sucking me in, especially after having missed the RR. Like a moth to a flame, with full knowledge that the flame is death incarnate...
    The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -TJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    And if you want to race for the W, I'll state right now the event will be won or lost in the first ~80 miles.
    [/lurk mode]

    Love to hear this kind of talk already. Tells me people are strategizing heavily. Good stuff.

    Back to lurking...

    MC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    On one hand, if it turns out to be a hot day, and you don't get to Fisher Valley before things really start heating up, the section from Dewey to Fisher Valley, while only 18 miles, may be death incarnate.

    On the other hand, to actually make it to Fisher Valley before the heat of the day sets in, you gotta be movin' so fast that the remaining 7000+ vertical feet to the finish may be death incarnate.
    Good points. For anyone thinkering with timing, how much water to carry, worst case scenarios, etc... read this at least once.

    Not completely applicable because we were paced slower and loaded heavier, but it gives a very good idea of what can happen to even the best prepared of us.

    Happy reading.

    MC

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Good points. For anyone thinkering with timing, how much water to carry, worst case scenarios, etc... read this at least once.
    Wow, what a great read! I distinctly remember reading that over a year ago, but as the memory was from a your story rather than my experience, it had already faded for me. Meanwhile, my personal GLR memories - as I'm sure yours are - are still quite fresh in my mind. Rereading your 2002 experience, I am struck by so many similarities: heat, broken rack, walking the sand from tree to tree - Dewey bridge to Fisher Valley was so miserable! It's hard to imagine all that plus a smoky, hot, 25 mph headwind... Definitely a heads-up gut check that the KTR and GLR can become more serious than you can imagine or predict!

    With the self-supported racing movement taking off, it's also interesting to get a glimpse of it in its infancy, before the rules were strictly defined. When it was only the 3 of you, accepting limited emergency support in the form of water, or a pill, or a strap was really no big deal. No one knew where you were, what was going on, or how huge of a challenge you were taking on. But, as these races have grown (in numbers and visibility), the rules have evolved. Now, the importance of a well defined rule set is clear, and it seems like that has been accomplished with the last few KTRs, GDRs, etc. I only wish I had been a part of this movement 10 years ago. So life-changing. So inspiring. And so humbling...
    The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -TJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Good points. For anyone thinkering with timing, how much water to carry, worst case scenarios, etc... read this at least once.
    That's frightening - no - terrifying. Considering the CT is open to 8750' outside of Durango right now, it could turn out to be one of those years.
    Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Good points. For anyone thinkering with timing, how much water to carry, worst case scenarios, etc... MC
    Holy Crap! That report is sufficient to keep KTR rookies, like myself, up at night. Let's summarize:

    Well prepared wily veteran of 30+ ultra races who knows the trails and is acclimatized to the weather and altitude

    Versus

    83 - 100F Heat, headwind, sandy trails, minor mechanical and loaded bike

    Equals

    Dehydrated, hallucinating, bonking cyclist by mile 90

    Resulting in

    DNF.

    Ok, mental note made. Got it. Back to thinkering now.
    Eat Food. Chop Wood. Ride Bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    On one hand, if it turns out to be a hot day, and you don't get to Fisher Valley before things really start heating up, the section from Dewey to Fisher Valley, while only 18 miles, may be death incarnate.

    On the other hand, to actually make it to Fisher Valley before the heat of the day sets in, you gotta be movin' so fast that the remaining 7000+ vertical feet to the finish may be death incarnate.
    'xactly.

    You're savvy enough to realize I didn't mean whoever is first to Dewey is gonna be the first to Moab. It could work out that way, but that's not where my money is. There will be no faking it on those long climbs to the finish

    The route direction change makes this so interesting this year for those that have already done KTR, it's like a whole 'nuther race.

    Just trying to keep MC entertained
    Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    That's frightening - no - terrifying. Considering the CT is open to 8750' outside of Durango right now, it could turn out to be one of those years.
    Ah c'mon we are going to have tailwinds and mana from heaven!
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    hehehe

    Quote Originally Posted by alizbee
    Ah c'mon we are going to have tailwinds and mana from heaven!
    are you moses then?
    Read my BLOG!

    just a guy who loves bikes and exploring

  65. #65
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    Scene along the way this weekend...

    1) Memories.

    2) Uncertainty.

    3) Wary.

    4) Encounters.

    5) Bridge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    1) Memories.
    Whoa, I was actually emotional looking at the shot. No idea why. Maybe it was the fact that the hike-a-bike was probably the hardest moment in my biking life. It could be, that very near the spot that photo was taken was where I sat down and stopped caring about any racing and went into full on survival mode. Maybe it's the fact that Salt Creek still haunts me in my sleep, conjuring up fits of bitter heat and merciless dusty boulders.

    I remember after getting up to that spot, I was regretting not dipping in the creek. I wanted to go back down, but of course that would mean climbing back up, which would have never happened.

    Memories indeed.
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  67. #67
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    Ed,

    It was good to run into you out there. I wasn't too happy with the wind when that pic was taken. But I'm hoping for similar in May. Also, the Twizzler's in my hand aren't as good as Panda brand, but it's good to work this stuff out in a pre-ride...

    Looks like you three had a great day.

    Is that a Chukar?

    FW

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    Good stuff

    Can't wait to tackle that beast !
    Read my BLOG!

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    [QUOTE=frejwilk]
    Looks like you three had a great day.

    Yes! We were extremely lucky we chose Saturday vs. Sunday for our ride. It was one of those fabulous days, not too hot, not too cold, great team to ride with and we were all on the same page as far as what we wanted to do and were able to do. It doesn't get much better than a long ride with good friends!

    Good to meet you too Fred. I was at CB100 but never met you.

    Thanks for the great photos and ride Ed and Jen.

    Gary

  70. #70
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    Carpooling from AZ?

    Quote Originally Posted by wookieone
    Hello y';all, hoping to ride this thing and was wondering if there will be any post ride thing going on and anyone have an idea to get folks back to the trailhead? A car pool would be a great idea, just throwing that out there.
    Is anyone doing this race from Arizona? I want to do the race but prefer to carpool with someone from AZ to the trailhead.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadfbrown
    Is anyone doing this race from Arizona? I want to do the race but prefer to carpool with someone from AZ to the trailhead.
    I live in Prescott, as of now my wife and I are going up for the race, ergo no room in the truck. If that doesn't happen I'll let ya know.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ionsmuse
    I live in Prescott, as of now my wife and I are going up for the race, ergo no room in the truck. If that doesn't happen I'll let ya know.
    Thanks. I also might do your Kaibab Race in June if all goes well.

    Nice blog by the way. Seems like we have some of the same hobbies.... teaching, mt biking, canyoneering, climbing.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    KTR post-ride plans/logisitics have not been made yet.


    Count me in!!!! So, let's get on to the important stuff, namely the post-ride logistics and dinner plans..
    "The search for a perfect pint should take lifetime." M.Jackson

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    Quote Originally Posted by sportsman
    Count me in!!!! So, let's get on to the important stuff, namely the post-ride logistics and dinner plans..
    Planning on abusing the all you can eat pizza joint.... and becoming a member of there bar =)
    Read my BLOG!

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  75. #75
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    we just have to make sure that there is no wait... for edemtb's sake...
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  76. #76
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    Ed, Jen, Gary and myself rode Dewey to Slickrock on Saturday. It was rainy, but spectacular. A few pics:

    http://picasaweb.google.com/adamliso...conDeweyToMoab

    Ed will probably chime in with a few thoughts as well.

    Dave, sorry you were feeling sick. You made a wise choice though.
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  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by alizbee
    Ed, Jen, Gary and myself rode Dewey to Slickrock on Saturday. It was rainy, but spectacular. A few pics:

    Ed will probably chime in with a few thoughts as well.
    It was fun stuff Adam and crew!

    A preview pic.........

    Ed E
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    It was fun stuff Adam and crew!

    A preview pic.........

    Ed E
    We followed your tracks on Sunday - look who's back in action!



    The route direction change sure is gonna make this one interesting
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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    We followed your tracks on Sunday - look who's back in action!

    The route direction change sure is gonna make this one interesting
    It's great to see you raring to go again Lynda!!

    I agree, the whole race is going to be very different strategically because of Adam's devious little route reversal

    Ed E

  80. #80
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    I had help in that decision!
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  81. #81
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    keep ridin' wookie!

    Quote Originally Posted by wookieone
    Hello y';all, hoping to ride this thing and was wondering if there will be any post ride thing going on and anyone have an idea to get folks back to the trailhead? A car pool would be a great idea, just throwing that out there. As far as the race goes i hope to have enough water to make it to Fischer creek, but can make an early call at westwater. I rode it in the Grand Loop last year and needed alot of water but this should be a bit easier i hope. Looking forward to it see y';all there. Jefe
    You don't need a stinkin' shuttle...You should just turn around and make your own way back on the same trail. That would make it challenging for you! Except that would make me feel really stupid when you pass me going the other way. ~Mitch

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    anyone else want to ride back?

    I already thought about riding back, yeah good times? But I would like to ride for the rest of the month, i seem to be drawn towards such self relaint type of stupid s*&t so who knows? two hundred and eighty miles is a whopper, anyways can't wait to ride and see y'all at the start, peace jefe

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by wookieone
    I already thought about riding back, yeah good times? But I would like to ride for the rest of the month, i seem to be drawn towards such self relaint type of stupid s*&t so who knows? two hundred and eighty miles is a whopper, anyways can't wait to ride and see y'all at the start, peace jefe
    If we ride back we might as well turn up the Paradox
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  84. #84
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    Plans and more Plans

    Originally Posted by wookieone
    I already thought about riding back, yeah good times? But I would like to ride for the rest of the month, i seem to be drawn towards such self relaint type of stupid s*&t so who knows? two hundred and eighty miles is a whopper, anyways can't wait to ride and see y'all at the start, peace jefe

    Originally Posted by The Sage
    You don't need a stinkin' shuttle...You should just turn around and make your own way back on the same trail. That would make it challenging for you! Except that would make me feel really stupid when you pass me going the other way. ~Mitch


    Quote Originally Posted by Pivvay
    If we ride back we might as well turn up the Paradox

    Which should I do??

    Plan A) Shuttle back (easiest, most likely)

    Plan B) Use some of my many “reward points” for a free Hotel night and next day re-supply batteries for lights and ride pavement/Hwy 128 to McGraw and then on back to Loma via KT (humm, maybe doable, thinking about it)

    Plan C) Do the “race” to Slickrock, but carry a Bag & Bivy etc, eat in Moab, take on full food supply, camp and next day start to retrace entire KT with one overnight somewhere on the return trail .(plan C is basically training for a multi day)
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    Just throwing this out there, but if there's anyone who might want to ride Loma to Moab May 5,6,7, I'll be out there (possibly alone, as my partner seems to have just bailed on me) and my wife has agreed to provide sag support. The plan is to ride Fruita trailhead to Westwater on Day 1, Westwater to Fisher Valley on Day 2, and Fisher Valley down Porc Rim to finish. Sag stops halfway through each day and all camping equipment can be loaded into my truck.

    If you're eyeing KTR for 2008 like me, this is a great opportunity to see what you'll have in store. PM me if interested.

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    KTR May 5/6/7

    Hey Doug! That happens to be the weekend of the 18hrs of Fruita race which I'm doing solo as a tune up for the KTR. If for some reason you decide to go the following weekend, I'm IN!! Jason

  87. #87
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    I'll be giving this 'ride' a go but will be traveling solo. I was thinking of hitch hiking from Moab back to fruita sunday afternoon to reunite with my vehicle but was wondering if anyone here was planning on driving back that way that could give me a lift (just from moab to fruita)?
    If you believe that I've got some magic beans to sell ya.

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    I will be heading to Fruita Thurs/Friday/Sat to ride a couple days for KTR knowledge. Anybody interested in hooking up to ride drop me an Email. Walt

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    I might see you out there Petersbike. Just to throw this out there, if you happen to see a black Honda Element with a pair of kayaks on the roof driving around the desert with Washington plates, do stop in and say hi, as that will be my wife and I (doing some kayak-camping on Lake Powell after riding KPT).

    By the way, I just got done looking at the forecast for the next 7 days or so on Accuweather and it looks as if it's not going to get above 80 and will have lows in the 30's each night. Does that sound normal for this time of year? Should I expect something, say, a bit hotter than Accuweather is letting on?

  90. #90
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    Car pool thread

    Started a new thread to discuss carpooling to/from here
    KTR- The Carpool Thread

    jim
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  91. #91
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    Hey Everyone,

    We are just TWO WEEKS OUT!

    I wanted to go over a few details. Remember:

    The race will start at 12:01 AM Saturday May, 19th (Midnight) at the Kokopelli Trail Head in Loma, Colorado.

    We will have a short racer meeting at 11:00 PM at the trail head to answer questions and go over last minute details, please make sure to be there, so you can sign in. Any racer not signed in when the race starts will NOT be counted in the results.

    The race will finish at the Slickrock Trailhead in Moab, UT.

    As you all know, this event is unsupported. If you are unclear what that means, visit the Kokopelli Trail Race website for further explanation.

    If you don't feel you can abide by the letter and the spirit of the rules of unsupported racing, please stay home.

    Hopefully you have all gone over your maps, your strategies, and are all ready to rock and roll. Ride smart, ride safe, and let's have a great time on the KT!
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  92. #92
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    Elevation Gains

    Here's a rough estimate of elevation gains from my map with sectional elevation profiles:

    Loma - Rabbit Valley: 1140

    RV - Cisco landing: 900

    CS - Dewey Bridge: 700

    DB - Fisher Valley: 3110

    FV - Castle Valley: 3320

    CV - Slickrock: 1820

    total: 10990'

    Any one have a more accurate info?

  93. #93
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    I think your elevation estimates are less than the actuals. All I have to go on is my Polar 720i but when I rode Dewey to Slickrock a couple of weeks ago it was almost 10K' of climbing.
    Eat Food. Chop Wood. Ride Bike.

  94. #94
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    KTR Taper Plans?

    Quote Originally Posted by alizbee
    Hey Everyone,

    We are just TWO WEEKS OUT!.............................................. ...........

    .................................Hopefully you have all gone over your maps, your strategies, and are all ready to rock and roll. Ride smart, ride safe, and let's have a great time on the KT!
    The new bike is dialed in

    The nutrition/eating strategy that seems to be finally working (cross my fingers on this one)

    Have a “cool day” and a “hot day” water strategy in place

    Have done (for me) some good 07 base miles, some nice solo endurance rides and a few races

    Am now wondering what other (more experienced) endurance racers are doing to taper for the KTR?
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  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail717
    Am now wondering what other (more experienced) endurance racers are doing to taper for the KTR?
    If anything I'm less experienced, but today was my last bike ride over 2 hours. I'll be transitioning back into trail running to train for a race in June; my hope is small runs will be easy enough to make the taper work, while being enough activity to help me sleep. The week before the Rim Ride I did essentially nothing, and while the taper worked I slept horribly all week because I didn't feel tired. I hope to avoid that, at least to a certain extent.

    The week before I also hyperfocus on staying consistently hydrated and eating well, lots of variety with colors (fruits and veggies) the week before, then lots of complex carbs and protein in the 72 hours before. Lay some quality reserves.

  96. #96
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    Old broken down knees

    Quote Originally Posted by ionsmuse
    If anything I'm less experienced, but today was my last bike ride over 2 hours. I'll be transitioning back into trail running to train for a race in June; my hope is small runs will be easy enough to make the taper work, while being enough activity to help me sleep. The week before the Rim Ride I did essentially nothing, and while the taper worked I slept horribly all week because I didn't feel tired. I hope to avoid that, at least to a certain extent.

    The week before I also hyperfocus on staying consistently hydrated and eating well, lots of variety with colors (fruits and veggies) the week before, then lots of complex carbs and protein in the 72 hours before. Lay some quality reserves.
    Well my knees don’t want me to run much over 30 min any more but I could limit my ride time.

    Hey, good ideas on hydration and eating, I think I will try the same, thanks.

    It is snowing at my house right now and I would like to get in some 'high temp' rides. I will be in GJ area for work next week and time permitting was thinking of riding (easy pace) a loop from Dewey Bridge up to either Fisher Valley (back down on Onion Creek) or on up and over to Castle Valley Road and back. This would be on Friday 11th, or exactly one week before the KTR. To much to late??
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  97. #97
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    I rode Dewey to fish ford on thursday and Dewey to fisher Valley and back on friday. Saturday I rode Mary's loop to Mack ridge on down. Saturday I saw EnduroDoug out on his new Moots 29er beginning his Kokopelli trip.
    My questions and concerns include:
    Saw no water at fisher creek on friday.
    I have now resigned from doing this ride on a SS. I just feel like I will be destroyed. I was able to climb to the top of entrada bluffs road to top of the world but after that it was much hike a bike on the remaining climbing.
    I also think to taper or not has to do with what your goals are. I am just riding as long ride.

  98. #98
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    Water, gots to have water

    Quote Originally Posted by petersbike
    I rode Dewey to fish ford on thursday and Dewey to fisher Valley and back on friday. Saturday I rode Mary's loop to Mack ridge on down. Saturday I saw EnduroDoug out on his new Moots 29er beginning his Kokopelli trip.
    My questions and concerns include:
    Saw no water at fisher creek on friday.
    I have now resigned from doing this ride on a SS. I just feel like I will be destroyed. I was able to climb to the top of entrada bluffs road to top of the world but after that it was much hike a bike on the remaining climbing.
    I also think to taper or not has to do with what your goals are. I am just riding as long ride.
    I am not aware of any “reliable” water down in Fisher Valley itself. Where Fisher Creek dumps down over the rim “into” FV is where you should find reliable water, about mile 109 (8000ft) per the KT map.

    In 06 I saw several strong riders on SS that did not finish, perhaps they may have with gears? On the other hand some with SS did very very well. As always this is a personal thing but If you are not sure you could do it geared this yr, and then always do it SS later.
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  99. #99
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    That is good to know!
    Initially I had intended to ride the full last half but once I got down rose garden hill the weather started deterioating, rain, wind, and sleet. Rode to the fisher valley ranch turnoff ~ a mile past onion creek road. Thanks for the info.

  100. #100
    Exactly 1/2 of 2-Epic
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail717
    It is snowing at my house right now and I would like to get in some 'high temp' rides. I will be in GJ area for work next week and time permitting was thinking of riding (easy pace) a loop from Dewey Bridge up to either Fisher Valley (back down on Onion Creek) or on up and over to Castle Valley Road and back. This would be on Friday 11th, or exactly one week before the KTR. To much to late??
    That's a significant ride for the week prior - is it part of a good taper? It depends on what your training has been like. Generally speaking, a 2 week taper would have you doing something like 70% normal volume week 1 and 40-50% week 2 (but frequency the same or increased), with intensity the same or perhaps slightly higher. I like to do a 4-5 hour quick MTB ride the week prior to big ones where cadence is generally higher than typical.

    There are two things about your proposed route that might require adjustments to make it the perfect ride: the sustained grade of the shandy climbs, and the length. If it was me, I'd probably take out the entrada blufffs part, maybe loop onion creek and descend castleton. That gets rid of the steeper climbing and gets it in the 4 hour ballpark.

    But, everyone's different in this regard. Have fun with it!
    Dave

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