2007 KTR Update

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  • 09-14-2006
    mikesee
    2007 KTR Update
    Here's the update: there ain't gonna be one.

    To all those that have called, emailed, and PM'ed me about this: Please, stop. I'm truly glad that the race captured your imagination and made you suffer and see god and all that. It was a great race. But my involvement in it has come to an end.

    No amount of pleas, offers to build a website, offers to have your SO police the course, offers to register a domain name, offers to provide coffee and donuts at the start, etc... will make any difference.

    I enjoyed the race for the few years I ran it, but I'm now happily moving on to other things.

    Here's an idea: if you want the race to happen, organize it. That's all it takes, mostly.

    Cheers,

    MC
  • 09-14-2006
    Pedro K
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mikesee
    No amount of pleas, offers to build a website, offers to have your SO police the course, offers to register a domain name, offers to provide coffee and donuts at the start, etc... will make any difference.

    How bout some Hookers and blow?

    Just kidding, after reading the thread from last year I understand, but hopefully someone will pick it up again one day.
  • 09-14-2006
    donkey
    Thanks for organzing the race in the first place. Twas a good run it seems.

    Now....hopefully one of ya'll will step up and organize this thing. Too perfect of a course to not hold a race out there.

    B
  • 09-14-2006
    sherpaxc
    So Mike, does that mean you're organizing the CT race this year;)
  • 09-14-2006
    Soloracer
    May 4th
    Closest Friday to a full moon, full on May 2.

    I'm not really looking to organize, but was curious about possible days.

    I vote that those who want to race show up, someone says go we go.

    Past threads should be more than enough information for anyone wanting to attempt. MC rules apply, enough said.

    Sure this thing could be organized to death, but why? You cheat you suck. You want support, pay for a tour, you want to see what you are made of, show up ready to ride at midnight.

    jim
  • 09-14-2006
    Pivvay
    Full moon
    Full moon and the date sounds good to me. I just want to start with all you other wackos.
  • 09-15-2006
    trail717
    May 4th is good
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Soloracer
    Closest Friday to a full moon, full on May 2.

    I'm not really looking to organize, but was curious about possible days.

    I vote that those who want to race show up, someone says go we go.

    Past threads should be more than enough information for anyone wanting to attempt. MC rules apply, enough said.

    Sure this thing could be organized to death, but why? You cheat you suck. You want support, pay for a tour, you want to see what you are made of, show up ready to ride at midnight.

    jim


    It’s marked on my calendar:D , so barring the big unforeseen circumstances, hope to see you all there
  • 09-29-2006
    alizbee
    May 4th looks good. I will plan to be there.
  • 09-30-2006
    bulletbob
    Ok I admit it...
    I'm the mega dork that snapped up the domain and volunteered to build the website. :rolleyes:

    If you guys want to build a site for next years race, let me know and we can figure something out for hosting, etc. I think it would be great to have pics from the previous races.

    Changing the subject slightly, if the race goes ahead should there be KTR police watching for people getting help on the down low?

    Maybe we could post pictures afterwards with big red X's on the faces of the people who cheated...
  • 10-02-2006
    alizbee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bulletbob
    I'm the mega dork that snapped up the domain and volunteered to build the website. :rolleyes:

    If you guys want to build a site for next years race, let me know and we can figure something out for hosting, etc. I think it would be great to have pics from the previous races.

    Changing the subject slightly, if the race goes ahead should there be KTR police watching for people getting help on the down low?

    Maybe we could post pictures afterwards with big red X's on the faces of the people who cheated...

    I have a few pics you are welcome to use. Another idea is just setting up a free blog ala the Trans Iowa....
  • 10-02-2006
    Soloracer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bulletbob
    Changing the subject slightly, if the race goes ahead should there be KTR police watching for people getting help on the down low?

    Maybe we could post pictures afterwards with big red X's on the faces of the people who cheated...

    F-em! If they want to cheat, let the karma police get them. If anyone finds out about cheating, any public humiliation is welcome in my book. I don't think we should police the course since that is anti everything these type of races are. It was kinda cool that this race got so big, but it also sucked big time.
  • 10-25-2006
    mn_ultra_guy
    2007?
    So is the race a go in 2007? I found this on the web.
    http://greatdividerace.com/_wsn/page4.html
    I am hoping this is true.
  • 10-25-2006
    Pivvay
    Glr
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mn_ultra_guy
    So is the race a go in 2007? I found this on the web.
    http://greatdividerace.com/_wsn/page4.html
    I am hoping this is true.

    That link is the grand loop race, not KTR.
  • 10-25-2006
    mn_ultra_guy
    KTR vs Grand loop
    Thanks for the clarifcation. I am glad the GLR is on for 2007, but too bad about the KTR unless we hear something this winter.
  • 10-25-2006
    Pivvay
    racin
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mn_ultra_guy
    Thanks for the clarifcation. I am glad the GLR is on for 2007, but too bad about the KTR unless we hear something this winter.

    KTR is on, just not with Mikesee AFAIK. May 4th. Be there or be square. I'm going by whatever is decided here.

    I will be at GLR too. Woohoo!
  • 10-25-2006
    ionsmuse
    5/4.

    Long enough that fitness is no excuse.

    I'm telling my people immediately....
  • 10-25-2006
    sansdrailer
    I'm in, would there be any interest in post race party???
  • 10-26-2006
    vzman
    :thumbsup: If thats true and the race is on i'm in .
  • 10-26-2006
    alizbee
    I set up an information site. It is probably not needed, but hey why not!?!

    Mike, hope you don't mind, but I copied and pasted your rules from the '06 thread.

    http://kokopellitrailrace.blogspot.com/
  • 10-26-2006
    mikesee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by alizbee
    I set up an information site. It is probably not needed, but hey why not!?!

    Mike, hope you don't mind, but I copied and pasted your rules form the '06 thread.

    http://kokopellitrailrace.blogspot.com/

    Don't mind a bit. Good on ya.

    MC
  • 10-27-2006
    LyndaW
    Cool. I'll see all you nutters out there!
  • 10-30-2006
    singlespeeder13
    To all you ktr people. Once again the black hills of south dakota will be represented. I am recovering for a bicycle/ car accident. Shattered femur and tibia/fibula 3 rods 16 pins. But I will be there with bells on and ready to ride
  • 10-30-2006
    SlowerThenSnot
    hummm
    mabe i'll have to do it.....

    try and set the fixie record...


    this year I'm gonna be tired :D
  • 11-01-2006
    butryon
    what is the ktr record time? i am pondering this one. how much route finding is involvrd and is it obvious where you get water?
    thanks,
    ryon
  • 11-01-2006
    alizbee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by butryon
    what is the ktr record time? i am pondering this one. how much route finding is involvrd and is it obvious where you get water?
    thanks,
    ryon

    KTR record was recently broken by Dave Harris. New record=12:41

    Sometimes the route is easy to follow, other times it is tricky. Maps are invaluable, as well as just simply paying attention, and looking for the signage.

    It is pretty apparent where to get water. Going to Westwater will take you off course a bit.
  • 11-11-2006
    bulletbob
    Just curious...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ionsmuse
    5/4.

    Long enough that fitness is no excuse.

    I'm telling my people immediately....

    Who are your people? Should your people talk with my people, touch base and do lunch?
  • 11-12-2006
    ionsmuse
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bulletbob
    Who are your people? Should your people talk with my people, touch base and do lunch?

    I am my people.

    All of them.


    If talking involves doing prerides on the course after Xmas, the part that isn't covered in snow that is, then yes. A veteran of last year told me last week that he "highly" recommends recon. Sounds like some folks got a we bit confunded this spring.
  • 11-12-2006
    bulletbob
    GPS 'legal'?
    I've been wondering if using gps to mark any potentially confusing spots is ok within the spirit of the rules?

    I don't think anyone would resort to navigating like a rally car but it would be cheap insurance.
  • 11-12-2006
    Stefan_G
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bulletbob
    I've been wondering if using gps to mark any potentially confusing spots is ok within the spirit of the rules?

    I don't think anyone would resort to navigating like a rally car but it would be cheap insurance.

    Yes, that's "legal". I really don't think it's that necessary for the KTR though. Study the map well, and maybe just program up a few intersections should be more than enough.
  • 11-13-2006
    bulletbob
    Yep
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    Yes, that's "legal". I really don't think it's that necessary for the KTR though. Study the map well, and maybe just program up a few intersections should be more than enough.

    That's all I was getting at, just a few important waypoints so I'm going the right direction...
  • 11-25-2006
    EnduroDoug
    Going to be down there riding KTR the week before your guys race as part of a multisport holiday with my wife. Planning on doing it in 2 or 3 chunks, depending on fitness by the time spring rolls around. Anyway, anyone have an idea on the condition of Onion Creek Road leading up to Fisher Valley? I'm thinking of that being one of our campsites, but am uncertain as to the condition of the road.

    Anyway, regardless, good luck with your race. I'm thinking that if my time down there goes well this spring, then maybe you'll see me back for the solo self-supported race in 2008.
  • 11-25-2006
    Soloracer
    [QUOTE=EnduroDoug] Anyway, anyone have an idea on the condition of Onion Creek Road leading up to Fisher Valley? I'm thinking of that being one of our campsites, but am uncertain as to the condition of the road.
    QUOTE]

    I've seen passenger cars make it up Onion Creek. Several stream crossings (actually more like a dozen). I would not try it in a Mini, but my Subaru could make it.

    jim
  • 11-26-2006
    HardTail29er
    Don't know you from.....
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mikesee
    Here's the update: there ain't gonna be one.

    To all those that have called, emailed, and PM'ed me about this: Please, stop. I'm truly glad that the race captured your imagination and made you suffer and see god and all that. It was a great race. But my involvement in it has come to an end.

    No amount of pleas, offers to build a website, offers to have your SO police the course, offers to register a domain name, offers to provide coffee and donuts at the start, etc... will make any difference.

    I enjoyed the race for the few years I ran it, but I'm now happily moving on to other things.

    Here's an idea: if you want the race to happen, organize it. That's all it takes, mostly.

    Cheers,

    MC

    ...."Adam" - but to you I say THANK YOU for your past efforts. They have added enjoyment to many peoples lives.

    Thanks, C
  • 01-03-2007
    Brandon448
    I am curious to all that have posted here, everyone on this thread says May 4th with the full moon. But the new web blog site for the race states May 19th as THE start date... So which is it???

    The 19th is just after the new moon ie no moon light!!! at least the 4th has a Waning Gibbous moon... what gives??
  • 01-03-2007
    edemtbs
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Brandon448
    I am curious to all that have posted here, everyone on this thread says May 4th with the full moon. But the new web blog site for the race states May 19th as THE start date... So which is it???

    The 19th is just after the new moon ie no moon light!!! at least the 4th has a Waning Gibbous moon... what gives??

    THIS is the official KTR '07 site to bookmark:

    http://kokopellitrailrace.blogspot.com/

    Ed E
  • 01-03-2007
    Soloracer
    [QUOTE=Brandon448] So which is it???
    QUOTE]

    I proposed the first date to get things rolling based on the moon and what would fit my racing schedule. Since I did not really want to organize it more than a date and a start time, one of the other members took charge and changed the date due to potential snow issues. It looks like the "official" date is the later date. Ed pointed you in right direction. I'll probably be out on the trail the original weekend working out my gear, might bivy to ensure I have everything dialed in or I just may ride straight through.

    Jim
  • 01-03-2007
    Brandon448
    Ok thanks guys I apprechiate the help That is unfortunately the same weekend as my daughters birthday so no go for me this year hopefully next year!! Thanks!!
  • 04-04-2007
    KERKOVEJ
    This race is getting close....
    For some reason today, I needed to find a way to self inflict some pain in mid-May. This event has become a very viable option now.

    So what the heck does everyone suggest carrying? Filter water?

    Just trying to get an idea of the inner vibe of this event.
  • 04-04-2007
    EnduroDoug
    Thanks Jeff for digging this thread up, as I couldn't find it the other day when looking.

    Soloracer, thanks for the feedback on Onion Creek road, I expect we'll have little trouble in our AWD Element -- that thing has done wonders for us so far.

    Now onto the topic at hand... does anyone have a 29er tire they recommend for Kokopelli? I just mounted 2.1 Ignitors to my "good set" of wheels but figure I'll need something with a bit more float for Kokopelli, Porcupine, and Slickrock. Any recommendations from those who have 29'd it before? I'm looking for suggestions in the 2.2 to 2.35 range. Thanks!
  • 04-04-2007
    ionsmuse
    My "plan":
    I ride a rigid SS, and I'll be using Weirwolf's front and rear. I've used a Nano out back, but the added comfort, traction, and float is more valuable than the slightly reduced rolling resistance.

    For water, I'll likely start with a gallon on the back and two bottles, then refill at the river and again when necessary in the mountains. Conditions dependent. I don't mind iodine and thus do not own a filter.

    Lots of food. The usual: bloks, candy, dried critter.

    If the weather is "good," extra clothing should not be excessive.

    Gotta get a good light.

    What gear? Seems like the lowest I can have to not be spun out through Rabbit and Westwater, or maybe go tall and just hike fast on the climbs. Hmmmm.....

    I have a feeling I may be making a trip up to preride, though pulling an Ed and doing it onsight has appeal. I've ridden basically none of the course!
  • 04-04-2007
    Soloracer
    If you're in it to win it
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KERKOVEJ
    So what the heck does everyone suggest carrying? Filter water?


    No filters, takes way too long. Tablets are an option. If I remember right, Jon and most of the top finishers carried all they needed. But that was years past, this year, different monster. Desert at night, mountains by day. Me? I think I'll just carry some beers.

    jim
  • 04-04-2007
    wookieone
    Anyone have a post ride plan?
    Hello y';all, hoping to ride this thing and was wondering if there will be any post ride thing going on and anyone have an idea to get folks back to the trailhead? A car pool would be a great idea, just throwing that out there. As far as the race goes i hope to have enough water to make it to Fischer creek, but can make an early call at westwater. I rode it in the Grand Loop last year and needed alot of water but this should be a bit easier i hope. Looking forward to it see y';all there. Jefe
  • 04-04-2007
    frejwilk
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Soloracer
    Me? I think I'll just carry some beers.

    jim

    Jim, Yes, but you've got competition experience here. I'd recommend others make sure they've used this in training prior to the event!

    Dave, Do you plan to drink CO river water with just tablets? I think Fisher Creek would be OK, but CO water seems a bit 'thick' for that.

    I carried a lot of water last year. Over 300oz. I did drink it all, but my pack was so heavy at the start that I couldn't breathe well. I'm rethinking this for 2007. I think the top five finishers last year were about as varied as you can get in terms of gear and water used. Some filtered, some carried all, some needed more than others, ultralight, fully equipped, etc...

    It's definitely important to figure out what works for the individual. Jon Brown may race well on limited water, but obviously knows what he's doing. Most others would be quickly lying dehydrated on the side of the trail if they tried to race on that amount. I think a quick look through some of the reports from last years race illustrates what caused most people issues...

    FW
  • 04-04-2007
    alizbee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KERKOVEJ
    For some reason today, I needed to find a way to self inflict some pain in mid-May. This event has become a very viable option now.

    So what the heck does everyone suggest carrying? Filter water?

    Just trying to get an idea of the inner vibe of this event.

    It would be great to have you out in the desert!

    There is lots of good conversation here:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...lli+trail+race

    I am still debating my water strategy for the Fruita-->Moab direction. Last year I carried enough to get to Westwater. I refilled there, and still ran out before I finished. Rabbit Valley and beyond was wilting.

    I am thinking that this year I want to be a bit better lit for the desert. More light could mean more speed on those rabbit filled double tracks and dirt roads. Not that I will be hammering, but some nice throw should help things move along :)
  • 04-04-2007
    trail717
    Lots of options for water
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KERKOVEJ
    For some reason today, I needed to find a way to self inflict some pain in mid-May. This event has become a very viable option now.

    So what the heck does everyone suggest carrying? Filter water?

    Just trying to get an idea of the inner vibe of this event.

    Goes without saying what’s best for one is not best for………….

    Among the many many options you could:

    Carry all you need (seems some what counter productive to me unless you can safely get by on less than 200 oz) Call this the hard hard core racer option, better know what you are doing and carry some tablets for backup!

    Start light on liquid, ride fast and enjoy the cool night air and stop at Westwater. No filter needed here but Westwater is off course a bit and you still have the main/hot part of the day in front of you.

    Start med on liquid and just tablet—fast, (yuk yuk on the silt, but some did this last yr and lived to tell the tale) or filter+tablet—slow, from the silty Colorado River at Cisco Landing (or do it just a bit farther on at the ST that goes right next to the river at about mile 65)

    Start med/full and tablet+filter at about ½ way point at Dewey Bridge (I am thinking of doing this option as I would then start the hot long climb with semi-cool fluid to drink and if needed get in a quick soak to chill down my legs in the river while I filter)

    Note: Fisher Creek crosses the trail about mile 109, creek runs strong and clear and you could just tablet (better tablet as there are cows in the area) the water here. However there is no reason to stop here if you still have a bottle or two left, unless you just need the cool water/break as its mostly down hill, there IS one major but non-tech climb left.
    IMO, If it’s a cooler day I do think many of the hard core racer types will try to make it at least to Fisher Creek and if needed do a fast light (1 maybe 2 bottle) quick tablet-only fill.

    Enjoy:D
    ½ the fun of this event is trying to figure out the best personal water strategy and much of what we learned last yr from the Moab--Loma does not apply this yr for Loma--Moab
  • 04-04-2007
    ionsmuse
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by frejwilk

    Dave, Do you plan to drink CO river water with just tablets? I think Fisher Creek would be OK, but CO water seems a bit 'thick' for that.

    FW

    Mineral supplements, dude.





    In all seriousness, that sort of thing just doesn't bug me. Back in the day, waaay in the middle of nowhere in Escalante country, friends and I were reduced to filtering from a 10' by 2" pool. Even filtered and sitting overnight, the water remained fully silted, the image of chocolate milk. Tasted fine, especially if you didn't look.

    Some can't stand silt, others can't stand iodine. I can't stand the arm workout of filtering, it tends to give my arms unneeded bulk that just slows me down. So I don't use them.

    Jim, Adam, and the rest who actually know what they're talking about make good points. I'll likely carry "a lot" but not a full bore load, and see when I need to refill.


    As for apres-race plans, I have a wonderful SO who has agreed to be shuttle driver. I'm also hoping to convince her to make a pizza run to keep the finish area well supplied. No agoraphobia inducing restaurant experiences this time, eh Ed?
  • 04-04-2007
    edemtbs
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ionsmuse
    Jim, Adam, and the rest who actually know what they're talking about make good points. I'll likely carry "a lot" but not a full bore load, and see when I need to refill.

    As for apres-race plans, I have a wonderful SO who has agreed to be shuttle driver. I'm also hoping to convince her to make a pizza run to keep the finish area well supplied. No agoraphobia inducing restaurant experiences this time, eh Ed?

    Woo-hoo! I'll be pre-riding this weekend if anyone is out there. Loma to Dewey Bridge with a couple of friends. Dewey Bridge to Moab pre-ride tentatively set for Apr 21 or 22.

    LOL, I don't like crowds when I'm feeling good Dave! When I'm wasted, hungry and cranky after a long ride, well I get pretty ornery waiting for food!!! :)

    KTR post-ride plans/logisitics have not been made yet.

    Similar to Fred's experience, I carried 300 ozs. on my back + water bottles last year and I won't do that again this year even if it does mean I will partake of silty CO river H2O. I'm kind of like you Dave, I used to drink out of lakes, streams, muddly puddles, whatever it all worked ok. Nowadays it seems like people freak if you lick a dew-dampened aspen leaf! Dave Harris had a nice lead last year until he had to filter and had problems with the filter - lost something like 20 minutes and Jon B passed him. Jon had an amazing ride and did it on very little fuel/water - be careful emulating him.

    This year will be much different with the course being reversed. I am looking forward to an entirely new challenge.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Soloracer
    I think I'll just carry some beers.

    Seriously, are you lining up this year?

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by EnduroDoug
    Now onto the topic at hand... does anyone have a 29er tire they recommend for Kokopelli?

    I rode Exi's front/rear last year on my rigid ss Walt 29'er, they worked fine.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by alizbee
    I am thinking that this year I want to be a bit better lit for the desert.

    Last year the moon was bright, this year :nono:

    Ed E
  • 04-04-2007
    Pivvay
    Water, tires, yada, yada
    Ya gotta bring what works for you Jeff and only you can really decide that. Plus your goals play into it too. Want to finish? Be conservative. Willing to risk a DNF? Go light and hope it works out for you. There's plenty of info on what you're up against here and in the old threads. It's a long race and dehydration has been the downfall of many at KTR but there is water around and you just have to decide how you want to play the game and how fast you're really going to go <gulp>.

    I'll most likely be of the light water strategy with tablets or UV for dewey bridge or fisher creek but it's going to be weather dependent. I certainly won't haul more than 180 oz on my back and it will likely be only 90oz plus maybe a bottle or two. After the Rim Ride I decided that 180oz was about all the water weight I want to carry in the pack I'll be using at KTR.

    Tires will probably be 2.1 racing ralphs with lotsa sealant. Been working well for me the majority of the time.

    Post race my wife will be shuttling with the Element. She already ditched another ride to be here for me so I'm pretty sure she'll be up for whatever I need. We'll be happy to accomodate other racers post race as we're able. Looking quite forward to it!
  • 04-04-2007
    edemtbs
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ionsmuse
    I have a feeling I may be making a trip up to preride, though pulling an Ed and doing it onsight has appeal. I've ridden basically none of the course!

    Even though the KT course is a bit more straighforward than the Rim Ride course and will be marked with the carsonite KT markers, it will not have nice blue ribbons at key intersections and some KT signs may be red-necked into oblivion. Could be a very tough challenge pulling an "Ed"!

    Ed E
  • 04-04-2007
    frejwilk
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by edemtbs
    Even though the KT course is a bit more straighforward than the Rim Ride course and will be marked with the carsonite KT markers, it will not have nice blue ribbons at key intersections and some KT signs may be red-necked into oblivion. Could be a very tough challenge pulling an "Ed"!

    Ed E

    Agreed. Ask Dejay Birtch about this. Many others have missed key turns (including some who should know better!). That said, the trail is pretty easy to follow. As always, I recommend those Latitude 40 maps. Grand Junction, and Moab East being the two needed here.

    I may see you out there this weekend Ed. If I'm riding that area it will probably be late Friday through mid day Saturday heading east. Are you planning one day or two? Camping along the course? See you maybe,

    FW