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Thread: 2007 KTR Update

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by frejwilk
    I may see you out there this weekend Ed.
    Fred - we'll keep an eye out for you. We're starting Sat. early in Loma and heading west to Dewey, planning to complete late Sat. We should be crossing paths.

    Ed

  2. #52
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    5 bottles

    And maybe a 60oz on the back if it looks like it might be hot

    Not sure on all the rides/motel stuff yet more then a month away

    Jeff it would be lovely to have yah out of the midwest
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    Dewey Bridge to Moab pre-ride tentatively set for Apr 21 or 22.
    Ed E
    I was planning a Rim Ride redo that weekend, maybe I need to alter those plans. Of course if I can get down there Friday I could do both the RR and a Dewey-->Moab ride
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  4. #54
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    Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by KERKOVEJ
    For some reason today, I needed to find a way to self inflict some pain in mid-May. This event has become a very viable option now.

    So what the heck does everyone suggest carrying? Filter water?

    Just trying to get an idea of the inner vibe of this event.
    Like others have said, it all depends on your goals for the event. Along those lines, I'd suggest as a first time KTR rider that finishing is the best goal. KTR is a lot to bite off if this sort of thing is new to you. It's long, hot, arid, and finishes with a bit of elevation. A DNF will haunt you for a long time...a finish will be most rewarding.

    Last year in the "race" I had a conservative plan - lots of food and fluids on board. A filter malfunction damn near ended my race at McGraw nonetheless... The 2nd time I rode it last year I was a lot lighter (although still filtered - twice!) and was well over an hour faster.

    And if you want to race for the W, I'll state right now the event will be won or lost in the first ~80 miles.
    Dave

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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    And if you want to race for the W, I'll state right now the event will be won or lost in the first ~80 miles.
    Interesting...

    I was going over some trail details last night. I think the "elevation" in the second half is going to be killer. The miles pass quickly when you are in the dark, bombing down them. But in the heat, going up, and there is more up than I remember, they will tick by slowly.

    The mojo from this event is starting to thicken, and I can feel myself getting excited for it once again.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    And if you want to race for the W, I'll state right now the event will be won or lost in the first ~80 miles.
    Interesting, indeed!

    On one hand, if it turns out to be a hot day, and you don't get to Fisher Valley before things really start heating up, the section from Dewey to Fisher Valley, while only 18 miles, may be death incarnate.

    On the other hand, to actually make it to Fisher Valley before the heat of the day sets in, you gotta be movin' so fast that the remaining 7000+ vertical feet to the finish may be death incarnate.

    I'm actually getting a bit tired of the KT (shouldn't it really be the Kokopelli Road?!), and since I'm gonna do the GLR again, I wasn't sure about doing the KTR again this year. But, ya'll are sucking me in, especially after having missed the RR. Like a moth to a flame, with full knowledge that the flame is death incarnate...
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    And if you want to race for the W, I'll state right now the event will be won or lost in the first ~80 miles.
    [/lurk mode]

    Love to hear this kind of talk already. Tells me people are strategizing heavily. Good stuff.

    Back to lurking...

    MC

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    On one hand, if it turns out to be a hot day, and you don't get to Fisher Valley before things really start heating up, the section from Dewey to Fisher Valley, while only 18 miles, may be death incarnate.

    On the other hand, to actually make it to Fisher Valley before the heat of the day sets in, you gotta be movin' so fast that the remaining 7000+ vertical feet to the finish may be death incarnate.
    Good points. For anyone thinkering with timing, how much water to carry, worst case scenarios, etc... read this at least once.

    Not completely applicable because we were paced slower and loaded heavier, but it gives a very good idea of what can happen to even the best prepared of us.

    Happy reading.

    MC

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Good points. For anyone thinkering with timing, how much water to carry, worst case scenarios, etc... read this at least once.
    Wow, what a great read! I distinctly remember reading that over a year ago, but as the memory was from a your story rather than my experience, it had already faded for me. Meanwhile, my personal GLR memories - as I'm sure yours are - are still quite fresh in my mind. Rereading your 2002 experience, I am struck by so many similarities: heat, broken rack, walking the sand from tree to tree - Dewey bridge to Fisher Valley was so miserable! It's hard to imagine all that plus a smoky, hot, 25 mph headwind... Definitely a heads-up gut check that the KTR and GLR can become more serious than you can imagine or predict!

    With the self-supported racing movement taking off, it's also interesting to get a glimpse of it in its infancy, before the rules were strictly defined. When it was only the 3 of you, accepting limited emergency support in the form of water, or a pill, or a strap was really no big deal. No one knew where you were, what was going on, or how huge of a challenge you were taking on. But, as these races have grown (in numbers and visibility), the rules have evolved. Now, the importance of a well defined rule set is clear, and it seems like that has been accomplished with the last few KTRs, GDRs, etc. I only wish I had been a part of this movement 10 years ago. So life-changing. So inspiring. And so humbling...
    The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -TJ

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Good points. For anyone thinkering with timing, how much water to carry, worst case scenarios, etc... read this at least once.
    That's frightening - no - terrifying. Considering the CT is open to 8750' outside of Durango right now, it could turn out to be one of those years.
    Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Good points. For anyone thinkering with timing, how much water to carry, worst case scenarios, etc... MC
    Holy Crap! That report is sufficient to keep KTR rookies, like myself, up at night. Let's summarize:

    Well prepared wily veteran of 30+ ultra races who knows the trails and is acclimatized to the weather and altitude

    Versus

    83 - 100F Heat, headwind, sandy trails, minor mechanical and loaded bike

    Equals

    Dehydrated, hallucinating, bonking cyclist by mile 90

    Resulting in

    DNF.

    Ok, mental note made. Got it. Back to thinkering now.
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  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    On one hand, if it turns out to be a hot day, and you don't get to Fisher Valley before things really start heating up, the section from Dewey to Fisher Valley, while only 18 miles, may be death incarnate.

    On the other hand, to actually make it to Fisher Valley before the heat of the day sets in, you gotta be movin' so fast that the remaining 7000+ vertical feet to the finish may be death incarnate.
    'xactly.

    You're savvy enough to realize I didn't mean whoever is first to Dewey is gonna be the first to Moab. It could work out that way, but that's not where my money is. There will be no faking it on those long climbs to the finish

    The route direction change makes this so interesting this year for those that have already done KTR, it's like a whole 'nuther race.

    Just trying to keep MC entertained
    Dave

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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    That's frightening - no - terrifying. Considering the CT is open to 8750' outside of Durango right now, it could turn out to be one of those years.
    Ah c'mon we are going to have tailwinds and mana from heaven!
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  14. #64
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    hehehe

    Quote Originally Posted by alizbee
    Ah c'mon we are going to have tailwinds and mana from heaven!
    are you moses then?
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  15. #65
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    Scene along the way this weekend...

    1) Memories.

    2) Uncertainty.

    3) Wary.

    4) Encounters.

    5) Bridge.
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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    1) Memories.
    Whoa, I was actually emotional looking at the shot. No idea why. Maybe it was the fact that the hike-a-bike was probably the hardest moment in my biking life. It could be, that very near the spot that photo was taken was where I sat down and stopped caring about any racing and went into full on survival mode. Maybe it's the fact that Salt Creek still haunts me in my sleep, conjuring up fits of bitter heat and merciless dusty boulders.

    I remember after getting up to that spot, I was regretting not dipping in the creek. I wanted to go back down, but of course that would mean climbing back up, which would have never happened.

    Memories indeed.
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  17. #67
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    Ed,

    It was good to run into you out there. I wasn't too happy with the wind when that pic was taken. But I'm hoping for similar in May. Also, the Twizzler's in my hand aren't as good as Panda brand, but it's good to work this stuff out in a pre-ride...

    Looks like you three had a great day.

    Is that a Chukar?

    FW

  18. #68
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    Good stuff

    Can't wait to tackle that beast !
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  19. #69
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    [QUOTE=frejwilk]
    Looks like you three had a great day.

    Yes! We were extremely lucky we chose Saturday vs. Sunday for our ride. It was one of those fabulous days, not too hot, not too cold, great team to ride with and we were all on the same page as far as what we wanted to do and were able to do. It doesn't get much better than a long ride with good friends!

    Good to meet you too Fred. I was at CB100 but never met you.

    Thanks for the great photos and ride Ed and Jen.

    Gary

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    Carpooling from AZ?

    Quote Originally Posted by wookieone
    Hello y';all, hoping to ride this thing and was wondering if there will be any post ride thing going on and anyone have an idea to get folks back to the trailhead? A car pool would be a great idea, just throwing that out there.
    Is anyone doing this race from Arizona? I want to do the race but prefer to carpool with someone from AZ to the trailhead.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadfbrown
    Is anyone doing this race from Arizona? I want to do the race but prefer to carpool with someone from AZ to the trailhead.
    I live in Prescott, as of now my wife and I are going up for the race, ergo no room in the truck. If that doesn't happen I'll let ya know.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ionsmuse
    I live in Prescott, as of now my wife and I are going up for the race, ergo no room in the truck. If that doesn't happen I'll let ya know.
    Thanks. I also might do your Kaibab Race in June if all goes well.

    Nice blog by the way. Seems like we have some of the same hobbies.... teaching, mt biking, canyoneering, climbing.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    KTR post-ride plans/logisitics have not been made yet.


    Count me in!!!! So, let's get on to the important stuff, namely the post-ride logistics and dinner plans..
    "The search for a perfect pint should take lifetime." M.Jackson

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    Quote Originally Posted by sportsman
    Count me in!!!! So, let's get on to the important stuff, namely the post-ride logistics and dinner plans..
    Planning on abusing the all you can eat pizza joint.... and becoming a member of there bar =)
    Read my BLOG!

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  25. #75
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    we just have to make sure that there is no wait... for edemtb's sake...
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  26. #76
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    Ed, Jen, Gary and myself rode Dewey to Slickrock on Saturday. It was rainy, but spectacular. A few pics:

    http://picasaweb.google.com/adamliso...conDeweyToMoab

    Ed will probably chime in with a few thoughts as well.

    Dave, sorry you were feeling sick. You made a wise choice though.
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  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by alizbee
    Ed, Jen, Gary and myself rode Dewey to Slickrock on Saturday. It was rainy, but spectacular. A few pics:

    Ed will probably chime in with a few thoughts as well.
    It was fun stuff Adam and crew!

    A preview pic.........

    Ed E
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  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    It was fun stuff Adam and crew!

    A preview pic.........

    Ed E
    We followed your tracks on Sunday - look who's back in action!



    The route direction change sure is gonna make this one interesting
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  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    We followed your tracks on Sunday - look who's back in action!

    The route direction change sure is gonna make this one interesting
    It's great to see you raring to go again Lynda!!

    I agree, the whole race is going to be very different strategically because of Adam's devious little route reversal

    Ed E

  30. #80
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    I had help in that decision!
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  31. #81
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    keep ridin' wookie!

    Quote Originally Posted by wookieone
    Hello y';all, hoping to ride this thing and was wondering if there will be any post ride thing going on and anyone have an idea to get folks back to the trailhead? A car pool would be a great idea, just throwing that out there. As far as the race goes i hope to have enough water to make it to Fischer creek, but can make an early call at westwater. I rode it in the Grand Loop last year and needed alot of water but this should be a bit easier i hope. Looking forward to it see y';all there. Jefe
    You don't need a stinkin' shuttle...You should just turn around and make your own way back on the same trail. That would make it challenging for you! Except that would make me feel really stupid when you pass me going the other way. ~Mitch

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    anyone else want to ride back?

    I already thought about riding back, yeah good times? But I would like to ride for the rest of the month, i seem to be drawn towards such self relaint type of stupid s*&t so who knows? two hundred and eighty miles is a whopper, anyways can't wait to ride and see y'all at the start, peace jefe

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by wookieone
    I already thought about riding back, yeah good times? But I would like to ride for the rest of the month, i seem to be drawn towards such self relaint type of stupid s*&t so who knows? two hundred and eighty miles is a whopper, anyways can't wait to ride and see y'all at the start, peace jefe
    If we ride back we might as well turn up the Paradox
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  34. #84
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    Plans and more Plans

    Originally Posted by wookieone
    I already thought about riding back, yeah good times? But I would like to ride for the rest of the month, i seem to be drawn towards such self relaint type of stupid s*&t so who knows? two hundred and eighty miles is a whopper, anyways can't wait to ride and see y'all at the start, peace jefe

    Originally Posted by The Sage
    You don't need a stinkin' shuttle...You should just turn around and make your own way back on the same trail. That would make it challenging for you! Except that would make me feel really stupid when you pass me going the other way. ~Mitch


    Quote Originally Posted by Pivvay
    If we ride back we might as well turn up the Paradox

    Which should I do??

    Plan A) Shuttle back (easiest, most likely)

    Plan B) Use some of my many “reward points” for a free Hotel night and next day re-supply batteries for lights and ride pavement/Hwy 128 to McGraw and then on back to Loma via KT (humm, maybe doable, thinking about it)

    Plan C) Do the “race” to Slickrock, but carry a Bag & Bivy etc, eat in Moab, take on full food supply, camp and next day start to retrace entire KT with one overnight somewhere on the return trail .(plan C is basically training for a multi day)
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  35. #85
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    Just throwing this out there, but if there's anyone who might want to ride Loma to Moab May 5,6,7, I'll be out there (possibly alone, as my partner seems to have just bailed on me) and my wife has agreed to provide sag support. The plan is to ride Fruita trailhead to Westwater on Day 1, Westwater to Fisher Valley on Day 2, and Fisher Valley down Porc Rim to finish. Sag stops halfway through each day and all camping equipment can be loaded into my truck.

    If you're eyeing KTR for 2008 like me, this is a great opportunity to see what you'll have in store. PM me if interested.

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    KTR May 5/6/7

    Hey Doug! That happens to be the weekend of the 18hrs of Fruita race which I'm doing solo as a tune up for the KTR. If for some reason you decide to go the following weekend, I'm IN!! Jason

  37. #87
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    I'll be giving this 'ride' a go but will be traveling solo. I was thinking of hitch hiking from Moab back to fruita sunday afternoon to reunite with my vehicle but was wondering if anyone here was planning on driving back that way that could give me a lift (just from moab to fruita)?
    If you believe that I've got some magic beans to sell ya.

  38. #88
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    I will be heading to Fruita Thurs/Friday/Sat to ride a couple days for KTR knowledge. Anybody interested in hooking up to ride drop me an Email. Walt

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    I might see you out there Petersbike. Just to throw this out there, if you happen to see a black Honda Element with a pair of kayaks on the roof driving around the desert with Washington plates, do stop in and say hi, as that will be my wife and I (doing some kayak-camping on Lake Powell after riding KPT).

    By the way, I just got done looking at the forecast for the next 7 days or so on Accuweather and it looks as if it's not going to get above 80 and will have lows in the 30's each night. Does that sound normal for this time of year? Should I expect something, say, a bit hotter than Accuweather is letting on?

  40. #90
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    Car pool thread

    Started a new thread to discuss carpooling to/from here
    KTR- The Carpool Thread

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  41. #91
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    Hey Everyone,

    We are just TWO WEEKS OUT!

    I wanted to go over a few details. Remember:

    The race will start at 12:01 AM Saturday May, 19th (Midnight) at the Kokopelli Trail Head in Loma, Colorado.

    We will have a short racer meeting at 11:00 PM at the trail head to answer questions and go over last minute details, please make sure to be there, so you can sign in. Any racer not signed in when the race starts will NOT be counted in the results.

    The race will finish at the Slickrock Trailhead in Moab, UT.

    As you all know, this event is unsupported. If you are unclear what that means, visit the Kokopelli Trail Race website for further explanation.

    If you don't feel you can abide by the letter and the spirit of the rules of unsupported racing, please stay home.

    Hopefully you have all gone over your maps, your strategies, and are all ready to rock and roll. Ride smart, ride safe, and let's have a great time on the KT!
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  42. #92
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    Elevation Gains

    Here's a rough estimate of elevation gains from my map with sectional elevation profiles:

    Loma - Rabbit Valley: 1140

    RV - Cisco landing: 900

    CS - Dewey Bridge: 700

    DB - Fisher Valley: 3110

    FV - Castle Valley: 3320

    CV - Slickrock: 1820

    total: 10990'

    Any one have a more accurate info?

  43. #93
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    I think your elevation estimates are less than the actuals. All I have to go on is my Polar 720i but when I rode Dewey to Slickrock a couple of weeks ago it was almost 10K' of climbing.
    Eat Food. Chop Wood. Ride Bike.

  44. #94
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    KTR Taper Plans?

    Quote Originally Posted by alizbee
    Hey Everyone,

    We are just TWO WEEKS OUT!.............................................. ...........

    .................................Hopefully you have all gone over your maps, your strategies, and are all ready to rock and roll. Ride smart, ride safe, and let's have a great time on the KT!
    The new bike is dialed in

    The nutrition/eating strategy that seems to be finally working (cross my fingers on this one)

    Have a “cool day” and a “hot day” water strategy in place

    Have done (for me) some good 07 base miles, some nice solo endurance rides and a few races

    Am now wondering what other (more experienced) endurance racers are doing to taper for the KTR?
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  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail717
    Am now wondering what other (more experienced) endurance racers are doing to taper for the KTR?
    If anything I'm less experienced, but today was my last bike ride over 2 hours. I'll be transitioning back into trail running to train for a race in June; my hope is small runs will be easy enough to make the taper work, while being enough activity to help me sleep. The week before the Rim Ride I did essentially nothing, and while the taper worked I slept horribly all week because I didn't feel tired. I hope to avoid that, at least to a certain extent.

    The week before I also hyperfocus on staying consistently hydrated and eating well, lots of variety with colors (fruits and veggies) the week before, then lots of complex carbs and protein in the 72 hours before. Lay some quality reserves.

  46. #96
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    Old broken down knees

    Quote Originally Posted by ionsmuse
    If anything I'm less experienced, but today was my last bike ride over 2 hours. I'll be transitioning back into trail running to train for a race in June; my hope is small runs will be easy enough to make the taper work, while being enough activity to help me sleep. The week before the Rim Ride I did essentially nothing, and while the taper worked I slept horribly all week because I didn't feel tired. I hope to avoid that, at least to a certain extent.

    The week before I also hyperfocus on staying consistently hydrated and eating well, lots of variety with colors (fruits and veggies) the week before, then lots of complex carbs and protein in the 72 hours before. Lay some quality reserves.
    Well my knees don’t want me to run much over 30 min any more but I could limit my ride time.

    Hey, good ideas on hydration and eating, I think I will try the same, thanks.

    It is snowing at my house right now and I would like to get in some 'high temp' rides. I will be in GJ area for work next week and time permitting was thinking of riding (easy pace) a loop from Dewey Bridge up to either Fisher Valley (back down on Onion Creek) or on up and over to Castle Valley Road and back. This would be on Friday 11th, or exactly one week before the KTR. To much to late??
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  47. #97
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    I rode Dewey to fish ford on thursday and Dewey to fisher Valley and back on friday. Saturday I rode Mary's loop to Mack ridge on down. Saturday I saw EnduroDoug out on his new Moots 29er beginning his Kokopelli trip.
    My questions and concerns include:
    Saw no water at fisher creek on friday.
    I have now resigned from doing this ride on a SS. I just feel like I will be destroyed. I was able to climb to the top of entrada bluffs road to top of the world but after that it was much hike a bike on the remaining climbing.
    I also think to taper or not has to do with what your goals are. I am just riding as long ride.

  48. #98
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    Water, gots to have water

    Quote Originally Posted by petersbike
    I rode Dewey to fish ford on thursday and Dewey to fisher Valley and back on friday. Saturday I rode Mary's loop to Mack ridge on down. Saturday I saw EnduroDoug out on his new Moots 29er beginning his Kokopelli trip.
    My questions and concerns include:
    Saw no water at fisher creek on friday.
    I have now resigned from doing this ride on a SS. I just feel like I will be destroyed. I was able to climb to the top of entrada bluffs road to top of the world but after that it was much hike a bike on the remaining climbing.
    I also think to taper or not has to do with what your goals are. I am just riding as long ride.
    I am not aware of any “reliable” water down in Fisher Valley itself. Where Fisher Creek dumps down over the rim “into” FV is where you should find reliable water, about mile 109 (8000ft) per the KT map.

    In 06 I saw several strong riders on SS that did not finish, perhaps they may have with gears? On the other hand some with SS did very very well. As always this is a personal thing but If you are not sure you could do it geared this yr, and then always do it SS later.
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  49. #99
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    That is good to know!
    Initially I had intended to ride the full last half but once I got down rose garden hill the weather started deterioating, rain, wind, and sleet. Rode to the fisher valley ranch turnoff ~ a mile past onion creek road. Thanks for the info.

  50. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail717
    It is snowing at my house right now and I would like to get in some 'high temp' rides. I will be in GJ area for work next week and time permitting was thinking of riding (easy pace) a loop from Dewey Bridge up to either Fisher Valley (back down on Onion Creek) or on up and over to Castle Valley Road and back. This would be on Friday 11th, or exactly one week before the KTR. To much to late??
    That's a significant ride for the week prior - is it part of a good taper? It depends on what your training has been like. Generally speaking, a 2 week taper would have you doing something like 70% normal volume week 1 and 40-50% week 2 (but frequency the same or increased), with intensity the same or perhaps slightly higher. I like to do a 4-5 hour quick MTB ride the week prior to big ones where cadence is generally higher than typical.

    There are two things about your proposed route that might require adjustments to make it the perfect ride: the sustained grade of the shandy climbs, and the length. If it was me, I'd probably take out the entrada blufffs part, maybe loop onion creek and descend castleton. That gets rid of the steeper climbing and gets it in the 4 hour ballpark.

    But, everyone's different in this regard. Have fun with it!
    Dave

    Anything is possible. The impossible just takes longer.

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