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  1. #1
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    New question here. Why Do People Hate Tony Ellswort?

    I've been reading a lot in the forums and everyone just seems to hate the guy. Something about him taking ideas and what not and just not being a nice guy. Please don't become defensive I'm just wondering why he has the bad reputation?

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    'cause he worked hard to earn the rep he's got & deserves all the bad press he gets.
    breezy shade

  3. #3
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    I don't get it. Why does he deserve the bad press?

  4. #4
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    I see no response, did'nt meen to insult or whatever just figured you guys might know

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge
    'cause he worked hard to earn the rep he's got & deserves all the bad press he gets.
    He was being sarcastic. (I think??)

  6. #6
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    Fujirider1: I think, IMO, its a combo of several factors:
    1. Warranty issues - There are some people that are still pissed off over some warranty issues from quite a few years ago. Ellsworth used to offer "lifetime warranty" on their frames. And, some people managed to break their bikes and Ellsworth apparently did not, according to these people, honor the warranty. Or, at least they did not honor in a manner they expected - full replacement no questions asked. Now Ellsworth gives a two year manufacturers warranty meaning they warrant against defects but not abuse. I don't think there are a LOT of people with issues around this warranty thing, but the ones there are are pretty upset about it even after all this time. I've wondered what it would take to get them to move on (like a new bike?) but I doubt anything will work. They had a bad experience and they will always remember it that way. The threads in this forum are still around and from what I've read they feel like they have not only been cheated, but also lied to.
    2. Customer service - Some people complain about Ellsworth customer service and general responsiveness. I think I got this one figured out - people who buy or want to buy bikes with Ellsworth frames think they are or should be Ellsworth's customers. But, they are not. Ellsworth does not (at least not anymore) sell bikes or frames retail. Ellsworth's customers are bike shops and bike dealers. The people who buy bikes with Ellsworth frames are customers of their bike shop/dealer not Ellsworth. I think, IMO, some people in general don't like this situation, they have an image of the "boutique shop" selling handcrafted items with a special custom experience for them. Well, Ellsworth advertises "handcrafted bicycles made in the USA" but they are not hand-crafted by Tony himself. So, maybe this whole "big business" approach and philosophy rubs them the wrong way.
    3. Mud slinging - Its a facet of human nature. Go to any sporting event and you see rabid fans intent on disparaging the other side. It kind of goes like this: My bike is my identity. I'm great so my bike is great. We can't both be great, so you suck. Your bike is different. So your bike sucks too. TE made your bike so he also sucks.

    Anyway, this is what I have seen in reading various items in the forum.

    My disclaimer: I own two bikes with Ellsworth frames. I've owned other bikes too. I like my Ellsworth bikes and enjoy riding them. I ride a lot.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by .40AET
    He was being sarcastic. (I think??)
    Well, I think it was written with sarcasm, but he really does mean to be disparaging. I took the time to read some if his old posts. Don't think he ever owned an Ellsworth, but he seems to have sympathy for the crew that feel cheated back in 2004.
    IMO, The bad blood on all this seems to run a lot deeper than just the monetary of issues of warranty disagreements. I'm sure at first it was about the time and money, but somewhere along the line it turned venomous.

  8. #8
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    Oldhorse-Thanks for the insight. I've been wondering about some of this as well.

  9. #9
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    I am gonna have a Truth very soon I hope...

    and I don't really buy a bike for the owner...but more for the shape, of course, and for the spirit that come from the brand.
    this brand is unique...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucash290
    I am gonna have a Truth very soon I hope...

    and I don't really buy a bike for the owner...but more for the shape, of course, and for the spirit that come from the brand.
    this brand is unique...
    Lucash: I've had my Truth for three years, but got my Epi recently. If I had to have only one of them it would certainly be the Epiphany. You can read my comparison:
    Old Horse Epi Build - Finally!
    Don't know what your riding scene is, but I would encourage you to take a look at the Epiphany.

  11. #11
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    I think if you're paying as much as Ellsworth charges for a frame there shouldn't be any complaints and very little issue. Seems like they have a lot of complaints and a lot of issues.
    Last edited by shatbirdbicycle; 01-18-2008 at 08:03 AM.

  12. #12
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    oldhorse seems to have gathered the info, thanks

  13. #13
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    I agree with Oldhorse. I am looking at the Moment right now and have heard so many great things about the bike.

    I think some people think they are doing Ells a favor by buying thier bikes so they expect the world in return. From a business standpoint it would be tough to replace every bike when you know a frame cannot be broken by ripping a trail a chunk of those people are hucking a trail bike off 5 ft to flat with the pro pedal on by accident or something like that.

  14. #14
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    Yup, & if you look at the time period of the complaints it was at the start of the more aggressive trial & all mnt riding. I think at the time most of us were riding xc bikes & doing things they were never intended to do, atleast not on a consistant basis.
    Plus throw some trolls & rabid fanbois from other manufacturers into the mix & you get a big mess. I never thought TE warrented the bs that went on here in the forums & thought it always made mtbr populace look bad.
    As the yrs have gone on the same group seems to perpetuate the stigma regarding Ellsworth & TE. Much of it I think stems from human nature & Ellsworth being a high end company & having the mindset early on to patent the fourbar suspension design he coined ict.
    Bottom line though some people are just unrealistic when it comes to retail expectations.
    I've been in retail or service my entire life & no matter what some people are never happy & will feed off of any negativity. I call them consumer terrorists.
    Life in every breath

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    Some people seem to take exception to his busines practice of getting the ICT patent. As I understand it, he patented a revised Horst link based not on the location of the pivots, but the reason (or effect) of the pivot locations, which was missing on the FSR patent owned by Specialized. There may have been a real crackdown by Specialized after that (I don't know). I would guess that Turner felt some of the fallout, as Turner paid spec. for a while and now also has a revised Horst Link. (I can see their point, I would hate it if my favorite make had to change their bikes because of paperwork.)

    These practices are not uncommon in the business world, and selling bikes is a business. A few years ago, Scott was selling a line of mtn bikes only overseas, because they were violating a patent in the US. That doesn't stop people from buying Scotts.
    At least the Ellsworth patent issue has put the bike world on notice to get good patent lawyers. The DW-link and VVP have pretty solid patents, I think.
    -j

  16. #16
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    I remember an incident a few years ago, when one of the Ellsworth models (Joker?) was having some serious breakage problems.
    Tony Ellsworth came bombing down to the forums demanding that the negative reviews be removed, even though they were legitimate complaints.
    His written complaint was very unprofessional and insulting. I normally wouldn't remember something like that for so long, but it was pretty shocking.
    That is unethical behavior and frankly influenced a frame purchase of mine 2 years ago.
    "I thought of that while riding my bike."
    Albert Einstein, on the theory of relativity.

    Peace and Long Rides...

  17. #17
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    Never met him

    I have never met Tony Ellsworth. I've had to deal with Ellworth customer service a few times for minor issues and have been taken care of promptly and courteously.

    I think much of the reasons people dislike TE have already been discussed. There's the issue of warranty claims not being addressed satisfactorily. There's the issues with Turner over the ICT patent. There are customer service issues. I think people also don't like the fact that he thinks his bikes are so special that they can charge more than most botique bikes.

    But, Ellsworth makes amazing bikes. I have owned bikes from Trek (1), Iron Horse (1), Schwinn (1), Intense (1), Titus (3), Banshee (1), Foes (1), Niner (1), Gunnar (1), Kona (1), Orbea (3), and Seven (2). I now own 3 Ellsworth bikes - a Rogue, a Moment, and an Epiphany. If I had more room in my garage, I probably would own more Ellworth bikes.
    Kokopelli Racing

    "Curb drops to flat, or curb drops to transition? There's a BIG difference there." Qfactor03

  18. #18
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    yangpei,

    That is an impressive line up of previously owned and current ownership.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjcools
    yangpei,

    That is an impressive line up of previously owned and current ownership.
    I agree with that. I would be interested to hear a comparison of Moment to Epi from an experienced owner of both

  20. #20
    Rolling
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    Cuz gothic lettering and hate go together.


  21. #21
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    Epi vs. Moment

    A comparison between the Epi and Moment would probably much more interesting and useful if the bikes were set-up similarly - ie as trail bikes. Unfortunately, my bikes are not.

    My Epi is set-up cross-country-ish. I have a Float RLC fork, RP23 shock, 2.1Nevegal tires, and 24" low-rise carbon riser bar. It weighs about 26 lbs.

    My Moment, on the other hand, is more trail bike. I'm running a DHX Air, 36 TALAS RLC, 2.35 Minion rubger, and a 26" riser bar. It weighs about 31 lbs.

    So, the bikes feel quite different. The Epi is definitely more responsive and more efficient. The steeper head angle and shorter travel fork make climbing very effortless. The Moment feels heavier, but is really plush (but still efficient). It just feels natural. Of all my bikes, the Moment feels the most natural and comfortable rolling around. Of course, I have to dial down the fork travel and lean forward for steep climbs. If I had to have just one bike, it'll probably be the Moment, but set up with lighter weight stuff.

    I apologize to the original poster about the side discussion. We should probably talk about why people bad mouth TE.
    Kokopelli Racing

    "Curb drops to flat, or curb drops to transition? There's a BIG difference there." Qfactor03

  22. #22
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    If he charged like 300 bucks for the frames , I guess all of us would be happy and could'nt care less who he was . But unfortunately these bikes dont come cheap and I guess it pisses people off that he sells expensive frames .

    But in the end , nobody put a gun to our heads and told us to buy an Ellsworth . I guess some may have complaints about CS . I dealt with their CS and I would say I am content . Tony E helped me out with fixing my old 02 Truth , it may have taken a while but in the end Ells made good in fixing my problems.

    I just love the bikes and when am out riding it's a great feeling .

    In summary my answer to the question raised would be, the people who probably hate him are either people who want the frame but cant afford it , the bike makers who have to design around the patent or some of us ( ells owners) who got warranty problems .

    The guy is probably OK, he is trying to be enviromentally conscious with his solar and wind powered factory ? he also has that pink option for breast cancer research ( Would the Chinese industrialist who manufactures millions more bikes for Giant, Trek , Merida ,etc. give a crap about such issues ).

    So Tony , if you are reading this post send me a new bike ! A smoke Truth in Large !

  23. #23
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    I agree

    Well said Jaydg-They may have their problems but their bikes sure are a blast to ride!

  24. #24
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    Perception is a tricky thing, especially when you've never met someone personally

  25. #25
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    Hi
    In france after 14 years off Ellsworth distribution we waranty 99% off broaken parts
    probably because we sell the right frame to the right people
    no body use a wrong shock or a wrong fork on their Ellsworth frame

    for me personaly after 14 years riding ellsworth bike and after aproximatly
    50 personal Ellsworth bike, I never broak anny thing and i still in love about that bikes

    at the same time I importe in to france some off the best US bikes
    Intense, Turner, Ibis, Foes, Niner, salsa, rotec etc
    nothing is better than Ellsworth ( exepte in downhill ok )
    Evolve is the best 29" I ever test
    Moment is the best "small free ride" I ever test
    Rogue is the best Free ride bike I ever test
    Epiphany is the best trail bike I ever test

    You could said me everry thing you whant
    he creat one off the best bike compagnie
    Tony I still a big fan
    Ellsworth addict cince 16 years

  26. #26
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    Please, remember something.

    Those of you having good CS service now are getting that service BECAUSE of the older issues and this site. Hopefully, TE and crew have worked out the kinks, but I am not impressed.

    It really is too bad that the mods removed the threads from a few years ago. They set still standing view/reply count recods for this site.

    I remember him personally replying to a thread about removing brake bosses from a Truth frame. He said to go ahead, but his warranty claimed the work voided said warranty. He was called on that, and other issues.

    EW also used to have a lifetime warranty on their frames, but were constantly charging retail for parts to allow the warrantied part work. Crap like that. i agree that it was at a time that saw alot of skills progression, but his (TE) replies and accusations were WAY out of line.
    gfy

  27. #27
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    I like lists

    Quote Originally Posted by yangpei
    But, Ellsworth makes amazing bikes. I have owned bikes from Trek (1), Iron Horse (1), Schwinn (1), Intense (1), Titus (3), Banshee (1), Foes (1), Niner (1), Gunnar (1), Kona (1), Orbea (3), and Seven (2). I now own 3 Ellsworth bikes - a Rogue, a Moment, and an Epiphany. If I had more room in my garage, I probably would own more Ellworth bikes.
    I'll throw my mountain bike ownership history out there with yangpei. In a some what chronologic order: Alpine, Trek, Klein (pre-Trek), Bontrager (pre-Trek), Kona, Ellsworth, Schwinn, Fat Chance, Moots, Independent Fabrications, Titus, Turner, Gunnar. 29ers: VooDoo, Asylum, Sycip, Ellsworth, Dean. I have owned more than one frame and style of frame of several of these manufactures. I currently don't own a 26er so current rides are 29ers a Dean Colonel and an Ellsworth Evolve. I don't have tremendous racer cred but I've been riding hard for FUN and fitness for a long time and have experience on a lot of bikes.
    I'd been on a Truth (2 frames) 10 years until I switched to an Evolve last spring. I have never broken an Ellsworth frame. Ellsworth's 4-bar is what I want out of my FS rig. Others come and go but that ride quality keeps an Ellsworth in the stable.

    I can't defend Ellsworth's CS or Tony's recent public relations because I haven't spoken to either in 8 or 9 years. When I did "back in the day" Tony spoke to me on the phone and troubleshot my problem and was helpful and polite. I can't say I wouldn't feel differently or might not swap to Turners if I broke a frame and felt like I got run around.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by damion
    Those of you having good CS service now are getting that service BECAUSE of the older issues and this site. Hopefully, TE and crew have worked out the kinks, but I am not impressed.

    It really is too bad that the mods removed the threads from a few years ago. They set still standing view/reply count recods for this site.

    I remember him personally replying to a thread about removing brake bosses from a Truth frame. He said to go ahead, but his warranty claimed the work voided said warranty. He was called on that, and other issues.

    EW also used to have a lifetime warranty on their frames, but were constantly charging retail for parts to allow the warrantied part work. Crap like that. i agree that it was at a time that saw alot of skills progression, but his (TE) replies and accusations were WAY out of line.
    Not that I am defending him nor do I work for him . Actually , he works for me "Build me a bike here is some money , Make it light make it pretty watch the welds "

    Kidding aside , with regards to warranty issues . I have had experience with the lifetime warranty ( pre 2003) and the two year warranty ( post 2003 ? ) .

    I developed hairline cracks on the rockers of my 02 Truth , I sent the broken rockers in and got the wrong rockers back ( 07 model ) . I was then given an option of keeping the rockers and purchasing a 07 front triangle although the purchase of the front triangle would set me back $750 . I figured I did not want to spend that much since using my Truth is now secondary to my Moment riding . I told them I just want a replacement of my Older style rocker . It took them quite a while to send me one , but they did and it did not cost me any bucks . Although I have heard that some of us ELLs owners may have had to buy an upgraded part , that differs from my situation wherein I recently ( 2007 claim , got rockers this month ) got warrantied for a six year old bike.

    With regards to post 2003 Ellsworths they have been fair to me . I had a 04 Truth which developed a split in the weld of the seat post and top tube after six months use , Since I have a 02 Truth also I asked that they just take in my 04 and replace it with a Moment , I pay for the difference in retail price ( $300 ) . They agreed to my proposal and the 04 Truth is now my 05 Moment.

    I understand that there may be a few who are upset that the warranty is now two years versus lifetime . Although I would like to note that the current bikes that they make ( except for the initial batch of Epi rockers ) seem to be improved and tougher versions, and would probably survive until retirement as a second bike by the first owner or would give in after we have bought a newer bike and sold the old one on Ebay or wherever .

    Look at the evolution of the Truth . Comparing my 02 and 04 model with current production , the current chainstay probably wont crack ( 2 improved variations since ) , the weld I broke on my 04 is now heavily gusseted ( 06 model up ) , They fixed the rocker problem and seat stay problem by changing leverage ratios in 2003 . If I am not mistaken the seat stays are also new .

    My point is with the quality of the bikes now , I dont think I would worry too much about stuff breaking and the lifetime warranty downgraded to two years thing is not too big a stinker for me .

    My 05 Moment is now out of it's warranty life , I feel that it is still as sturdy as it was when it was new .

    But if he was out of line and being a jerk with the replies he gave then , I guess yes it reflects on the personality of the individual . But for me , I could'nt give a rat's ass , I love riding my bikes and so far the guy's company has come through (IMO ) with my CS expectations

  29. #29
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    I'm not a huge fan of TE either, but I wouldn't spend my life trolling about it. You have to remember the mtbr forums are a drop in the ocean of bikers. Usually the TE bashing comes from the same dozen or so people (who despite denial haven't got over the HL loss). I've had great CS from Ellsworth and also from Turner (and no I'm not a sickly homer who spends his life living up DT's backside). My Moment is an amazing beast, ridden all over the world and thrashed regularly in the Alps - all the guides whom I meet want one after riding it. I'd buy Ellsworth again, sadly not Turner as in my country they are around £400-£500 more expensive.

    So ignore the trolls and guys that continually b1tch and generally make nasty comments - just enjoy your ride as you're never (luckily) gonna meet these juvenile people on the trails.
    "but I do not see anything in the world of suspension methods that is superior to the 4 Bar.

    Dave Turner


  30. #30
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    That 'core' group does have some pretty valid points, as far as I can tell. Sure, Ellsworth looks like it's really cleaned up it's CS now, but if the founder really did show his true colours years ago, I'd prefer to know what they were before bad publicity forced him into hiding.

    I flat out admit that I've never owned an Ellsworth. And because of things that I've discovered from these forums, I never will. How a bike rides is one thing I look at, as is customer service. And if there is one, I'll also look at the driving personality behind the company.

  31. #31
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    Mistakes happen...

    Quote Originally Posted by womble
    That 'core' group does have some pretty valid points, as far as I can tell. Sure, Ellsworth looks like it's really cleaned up it's CS now, but if the founder really did show his true colours years ago, I'd prefer to know what they were before bad publicity forced him into hiding.

    I flat out admit that I've never owned an Ellsworth. And because of things that I've discovered from these forums, I never will. How a bike rides is one thing I look at, as is customer service. And if there is one, I'll also look at the driving personality behind the company.

    I think it's foolish to roast someone for some things they said years ago. I have said some really dumb things in my life and those are not the defining moments of my life or my character. Are a few out of line posts his "true colors" or just a bad choice in a public forum? It seems that he has learned his lesson. Now, if he said things to you personally in this forum, then hold a grudge (I would). But I don't hold a grudge for anyone else.

    If you talk to enough people, you will find bad CS in every company. You won't buy anything again. I had a girlfriend that wouldn't buy a Honda car again. Personally, I don't drink anything made by Coca-Cola. But that's history that happened to me.

  32. #32
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    I think people take these forums way to serious. It is a great forum and I am pretty much addicted to reading this stuff but the blasting needs to be reduced drastically. I do not own an ellsworth, but I wish I did. I have been looking at 6' bikes for a bit and am very interested in the moment. I think what interests me the most is the love/hate for ellsworth bikes, makes me want one just to piss off the haters.

    I have a buddy that works for them and loves it, he is really good friends with TE and he has never once said anything negative about the guy or his job. He has only been there about a year so it is post bad times for them but hey, he has a great job and gets to ride everyday.

    I think it is crazy that so many people still argue about this old beef which has long since been resolved.

    I love bikes, lets keep the flaming to a minimum boys. (and girls)

  33. #33
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    Please, dont get me wrong.

    I have always admired (and lusted after) EW's welds, and designs. It was after I discovered what was going down with his outfit on this site that I changed my mind.


    However, I still feel that the older CS issues, and his personal postings, have some bearing on the contued sucess of the company. Period. He (TE and Co) had MANY chances to make things right, and they know it.

    It really is a shame that those threads are gone. Even if they had been closed, they would still be getting high view counts.
    gfy

  34. #34
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    i guess you would never

    buy a bmw, as they used to build tanks in the WWII... hmmm... kinda weak argument, but to each his own...

    sometimes, it is pretty hard to remain silent to all the trash talk that is being directed against one's person... i am sure most of us got ourselves in trouble more than once because of our temper - no? is that a good reason for our friends or colleagues to dump us forever? dont think so...

    but as i said, to each his own, and if you dont feel like giving business to Ellsworth, good for you... it is your money...


    Quote Originally Posted by womble
    That 'core' group does have some pretty valid points, as far as I can tell. Sure, Ellsworth looks like it's really cleaned up it's CS now, but if the founder really did show his true colours years ago, I'd prefer to know what they were before bad publicity forced him into hiding.

    I flat out admit that I've never owned an Ellsworth. And because of things that I've discovered from these forums, I never will. How a bike rides is one thing I look at, as is customer service. And if there is one, I'll also look at the driving personality behind the company.

  35. #35
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    you make it easy

    for most to get you wrong...

    do you really think this website made Ellsworth change or "improve" their CS or whatnot?

    if you do - you are a fool... what percentage of MTBers read this board and/or actively participate in the discussion... i often ask people that i meet on the trails if they know of MTBR - the percentage so far of those that have heard about it is barely 1 out of 20... and i am talking about above average MTBers... cant call the number significant at all...

    Ellsworth is evolving because as any company, they are looking at ways to improve their business, make better quality product and provide better experience to their customers... they realize that not everyone is after their product - it is the niche market where many factors must be taken into account, blah, blah, blah... you are smart enough and it is probably time to pull the plug on that outdated theme...

    as you can see - even such an inflammatory thread is going down pretty positively - so why dont you catch the band wagon? if that is going to cut it - i'll chip in couple of bucks to support your next Ellsworth purchase, so that you dont have to only lust about it... fair enough?

    ugh, gotta go back putting studded tires on my Id... night riding in snow in the rock garden is so much fun... have you ever tried it?


    Quote Originally Posted by damion
    I have always admired (and lusted after) EW's welds, and designs. It was after I discovered what was going down with his outfit on this site that I changed my mind.


    However, I still feel that the older CS issues, and his personal postings, have some bearing on the contued sucess of the company. Period. He (TE and Co) had MANY chances to make things right, and they know it.

    It really is a shame that those threads are gone. Even if they had been closed, they would still be getting high view counts.

  36. #36
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    You seriously think that the smaller manufacturers or designers don't pay attention to the forums? Ventana, Knolly, Ibex, DW all spend a lot of time posting here. They Yeti are certainly aware of the Yeti forum (we interact with the staff constantly then make references to this on the forum) but don't post. Most manufacturers who don't actively post probably lurk- they'd be quite stupid to ignore such an easily accessible, early-adopter and vocal market.

    Ellsworth used to post here, very vocally by most accounts. My guess would be that Ellsworth (as a company, at least) still scans this forum, but realises that there is enough residual ill-feeling that a minority would constantly heckle any official posters so they just lurk. There is absolutely no upside to them posting and all they can do is keep up good CS and let that speak for itself.

    Edit: I just read the thread posted by OldHorse (below). Wow, what a trainwreck. Looks like the warranty terms were changed pretty much as a result of MTBR debates at the time. Good stuff.
    Last edited by womble; 01-22-2008 at 10:26 PM.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by damion
    It really is a shame that those threads are gone. Even if they had been closed, they would still be getting high view counts.
    Actually Damion I think they are still there. They just got locked and pulled off the board they were listed under. But, you can still access them from, for example, your public profile:
    "check out Tony's reply to his warranty issues! 04-02-2004 137 5,891 General Discussion"
    check out Tony's reply to his warranty issues!
    I tried to read as much of all this history as possible. What a terrible mess. He didn't know when to leave things alone, tried to explain himself and got into it deeper. Any good businessman knows that you cannot win a public argument with a disgruntled customer.

  38. #38
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    you are 100% right.

    They (or at least some) of the old threds are still around.


    You can also search for TE's profile Tony Ellsworth and see for yourself.


    Oso, I knew you wouild chime in at some point. Yes, I am POSITIVE that the old CS issues and this site had a direct change on how CS is handled now, and the wording of the warranty. Hopefully, things have changed for the better, and I am glad to hear about positive CS.

    The OP asked, so here is another.
    Removing rear rim brake bosses?

    Then there is my all time favorite: Removing rear rim brake bosses?

    Like I said, I am glad that things have changed.
    gfy

  39. #39
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    Wow! What an interesting thread! I have two Ellsworth bikes, a specialist and a truth, and I love them both. Never dealt with Ellsworth CS, my local auth dealer has taken care of me very well including a "recall" of Specialist frames (my frame was/is fine). Any boutique company will have CS issues and very vocal dissatisfied customers, it is the simple law of human nature that assures us anyone who feels they have been wronged will make a lot more noise than a simple satisfied customer, especially on internet forums such as MTBR. What makes things worse for TE is that his products are subject to discretional use, so you know some of the failures are from excessively aggressive riding, drops, or crashes and are in no way his or the companies fault.

    Now I am sure that some frames have failed in the course of proper use, and it seems that folks have had a wide variety of experiences yet very few of them refer to the local authorized dealer as having any involvement in the CS process and I think this is a problem caused by people buying frames from mail order or other AD's that can't provide them with CS.... This is a major oversight on the part of the buyer as the local shop is often your best advocate when dealing with a warranty issue. The shop has a relationship with you, needs to keep your business regardless of the brand of bike they sell you, and will generally back you up with regard to how you use your bike and whether the damage is caused by you or a genuine product failure.

    Even better, my local AD has sold me both my frames at a nice discount as long as I bought an extra part or two for the build, nothing expensive either, I added a seatpost and headset to each frame purchase and got about 20% off each frame.

    So I am left wondering why folks would buy a bike without local support. Would you buy a car with no local dealer for the brand around?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by damion
    They (or at least some) of the old threds are still around.


    You can also search for TE's profile Tony Ellsworth and see for yourself.


    Oso, I knew you wouild chime in at some point. Yes, I am POSITIVE that the old CS issues and this site had a direct change on how CS is handled now, and the wording of the warranty. Hopefully, things have changed for the better, and I am glad to hear about positive CS.

    The OP asked, so here is another.
    Removing rear rim brake bosses?

    Then there is my all time favorite: Removing rear rim brake bosses?

    Like I said, I am glad that things have changed.
    Not to burst your bubble but that post makes you look like a troll & a a$$hat. So does that mean you are??? Is that the sum of your identity? TE gave advice on how to repair something & you all blew it out of proportion & knit picked it to death. I'm guessing but i'd wager money on it, that TE could have spoken gospel & he would still get crucified by the "core" group of haters.

    My take on the whole TE fiasco pretty much goes with Old Horse. I'm guessing TE isn't into or part of the internet generation & got burned by it by posting when he should have just stopped typing. Its hard not to sometimes & I think we all have fell victim to it....like I am now
    As far as a business model & company Ellsworth is eco friendly & helping support breast cancer & is keeping jobs in the USA and supporting the US economy. Not bad for a small bike company. He could just be stuffing all the $$$ he can into his pockets & not give a damn but has chosen not to. Sounds like a pretty good guy to me.
    Life in every breath

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mt.Biker E
    As far as a business model & company Ellsworth is eco friendly & helping support breast cancer & is keeping jobs in the USA and supporting the US economy. Not bad for a small bike company. He could just be stuffing all the $$$ he can into his pockets & not give a damn but has chosen not to. Sounds like a pretty good guy to me.
    Does anyone know when ellsworth was founded? Most companies have some very rough times when they start to really grow in size. It's hard for owners to trust hired people to help run their company. I suspect that Ellsworth may have been going through these frustrating growing pains when all the CS S#!t went down. It's really common. The companies that can make their way through the growth will correct the mistakes. Ellsworth seems to be following this pattern. They had some rough times, but they are settled into a larger size and running more smoothly. If they tried to jump to the Trek, Cannondale, and Specialized size, then they would again have really rough times. I seem to recall hearing Cannondales called Crack and Fails. They had their rough times, but corrected them. Trek had their problems too. Companies like Turner and Ventana seem to have learned from the Ellsworth mistrakes and positioned themselves in the market with good CS as a way of standing out. Ellsworth stands out by name recognition, high quality, innovation, and Bling (i.e. fancy ano finishes, etc.).

  42. #42
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    fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mt.Biker E
    Not to burst your bubble but that post makes you look like a troll & a a$$hat. So does that mean you are??? Is that the sum of your identity? TE gave advice on how to repair something & you all blew it out of proportion & knit picked it to death. I'm guessing but i'd wager money on it, that TE could have spoken gospel & he would still get crucified by the "core" group of haters.

    I knew before posting those links that they may be looked at like that. In some ways I agree. I was out of line douring that time. I have toned it down considerably. Sorry if it seems harsh, but I have never "hated" EW or any other company in the cycling industry. I simply felt (and still do) that if a company is going to advertise a lifetime warranty, that they had damn well better be able to back it up. Period.

    Now that these changes have come about, it seems that EW is doing just fine (as expected by all) and most are getting decent CS now. That is good news.

    The OP asked why, so links were provided. I am not trying to kick a dead horse here, sorry if it seems that way.


    Oso, you can get bent. (in a friendly way, lol.) Long time no chat.
    gfy

  43. #43
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    yeah, true dat...

    last season was the best biking season for me ever... rode pretty much from the start of the year, in preparation for the Transrockies.. raced every conceivable race in the area, including a couple of solo 8 hours races - which is quite an exercise for a 200+ bag of meat and bones... placed well in my category as well... raced transrockies and had unforgettable time with all participants... took a break after the epic and raced final 8 hour tag team race with my transrockies partner and podiumed there - an icing on the cake... thought it was the end of the racing season, then got offered a spot at LaRuta in Costarica... well, how could i say no... raced the toughest race in this and probably my next life and had a blast, amid all the suffering... hope to go back for more...

    no wonder i didnt have time to post on this board... which may have been a good thing...

    it seems that this board is finally starting to take some reasonable shape... Ellsworth has stabilized it's presence on the market with some quality products... Got an Epiphany, but am not building it until i let some other frames go... cant store more than 6 bikes in my condo... sigh... but it is a beauty - nebula blue....

    anything to write home in your neck of the woods? guess steve3 is deceased - havent heard anything from any character on this board that would even remotely resemble his stature... how about Pete? maybe he returns as well - with a bit less bitterness...

    after all, we are all brothers... screw animosities... darn computers... if we were on the trail, no time would be wasted on the stupidity that we went through a while ago... but we are still here to never have to go through it again...

    okay you stinky little bastard?





    Quote Originally Posted by damion
    I knew before posting those links that they may be looked at like that. In some ways I agree. I was out of line douring that time. I have toned it down considerably. Sorry if it seems harsh, but I have never "hated" EW or any other company in the cycling industry. I simply felt (and still do) that if a company is going to advertise a lifetime warranty, that they had damn well better be able to back it up. Period.

    Now that these changes have come about, it seems that EW is doing just fine (as expected by all) and most are getting decent CS now. That is good news.

    The OP asked why, so links were provided. I am not trying to kick a dead horse here, sorry if it seems that way.


    Oso, you can get bent. (in a friendly way, lol.) Long time no chat.

  44. #44
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    Some can't handle the Truth

    I own a Truth. I broke it and Ell took care of it. Sh?@ breaks. I have seen a lot of bikes break..
    If you ain't hike you ain't Mnt Bikin

  45. #45
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    I owned 5 Ellsworths. All of them broke. All of them were warrantied. I no longer ride Ellsworth because of the time lost dealing with the warranties and the frustration caused to both myself and the LBS. My LBS no longer sells Ellsworths either.

    In the last year, I've broke both my SS and my dualie. Both took 3-5 weeks to warranty. Both were much better experiences than Ellsworth.

    I also believe there is an intentional effort from Ellsworth's marketing to mislead or misdirect people especially in the review section of websites like MTBR.

    But that's my opinion.

    -B

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr
    I owned 5 Ellsworths. All of them broke. All of them were warrantied. I no longer ride Ellsworth because of the time lost dealing with the warranties and the frustration caused to both myself and the LBS. My LBS no longer sells Ellsworths either.

    In the last year, I've broke both my SS and my dualie. Both took 3-5 weeks to warranty. Both were much better experiences than Ellsworth.

    I also believe there is an intentional effort from Ellsworth's marketing to mislead or misdirect people especially in the review section of websites like MTBR.

    But that's my opinion.

    -B
    Man, You are hard on your equipment! What kind of bikes did you break this year?
    What kind of riding do you do?

  47. #47
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    .......


  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    .......

    JRA Cycles
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  49. #49
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    hucking off the

    roof of the local garage...

    maybe he should switch to badminton????


    Quote Originally Posted by JIMBOLAYA
    Man, You are hard on your equipment! What kind of bikes did you break this year?
    What kind of riding do you do?

  50. #50
    Daniel the Dog
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    It is fashionable to dislike him

    I think for a while Ellsworth had some quality control problems. My Isis used to squeek like crazy from the main pivot right after I bought it and the rear disc tab was crooked. The paint sucked too. But now the bikes look much better with very few reports of broken Ellsworth bikes. I have heard he is tempermental at times but any more than Dave Turner or other major company owners? I doubt it!

    Jaybo

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