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  1. #1
    mutaullyassuredsuffering
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    Who actually races their Truth?

    It seems most Truth owners are using their bikes a trailbikes with the occasional longer race. I'm looking for folks who actually use their Truth as a full-on XC race bike. I don't ever see them at the XC races around here, and like many, I skipped over the Truth when I made my last few bike purchases due to the frame weight and relatively relaxed head angle.

    What I'm interested in is the bobbing of the suspension. Most trailbike riders like a bit of bob for climbing traction and comfort. However, I can ride a higher cog in a race with my suspension locked in stiff propedal versus open on my current bike, and that translates to alot of time over a couple hours.

    I've parking-lot demoed a Truth, and I find that with the FloatR I can get the suspenson moving pretty good in the big ring and especially sprinting. I'm trying to find out if the Truth with an RP23 makes sence. Does restricing the bob with a platform stiffen up the suspension significantly and make it just like the other stiff overdamped race suspensions out there.

    I would like a bike that I can set at a low level of damping (1 or 2 instead of 3 on the RP23) without bobbing all over the course.

    Any Input?
    Free will is an illusion, people will always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

  2. #2
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    i'm hardly a good racer, but i do team rides in 24hoa and a few other things.

    my truth (a '00) is stiff as can be with the propedal on full on an fox racing shox Float AVA RL withProPedal 2004. I can stand and mash on the big ring with nary a bob. The RL actually has lockout, but I never, ever use it. first, the PP is stiff enough that i don't need to, and second, ells says not to run locked out, as it stresses the frame not to have a little bit of bob (though as i said, i never feel it bobbing). my friends, who have newer truths with the floatR, look like they are bobbing more when they stand and mash. i don't know if it is the PP shock that i have, or the switch from bushings to bearings in the newer truths, but i suspect the shock.

    My Truth came with an AD 10. It was light, never leaked air and did most of what I wanted excpt for its lack of rebound damping. I was always getting the "boing" rebound after midsize to larger hits. This would unseat me and pop the rear tire off the ground. The adjustments had very little effect. when I switched to the AVA PP and the bike is mo betta. The rebound works. The PP was reported to make the Truth harsh but I have not found that to be the case at all. I run the AVA sleeve at max volume and 160 lbs. I weight 175ish.

  3. #3
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    You realize of course that by admitting you race your bike you have just voided your warranty.

    Ahhh. The pleasures of Ellsworth ownership.

    Read the small print. It may not matter to you but it sure does to TE.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfly
    You realize of course that by admitting you race your bike you have just voided your warranty.

    Ahhh. The pleasures of Ellsworth ownership.

    Read the small print. It may not matter to you but it sure does to TE.
    I raced a 2001 truth xc last summer and cyclocross this winter. I am a clyde about 235. I broke the frame called Ellsworth. Sent them the frame and had my new one built 6 days later.

    I was very specific on the phone that I raced it. I was also specific that I was over 200 pounds.

    I agree there customer service could use so help but for me they did pretty well.

    The truth is only my 3rd mountain bike so I don't feel qualified when I say if I think its a great bike. I can say it works much better than my Gary Fisher Joshua and is seems more effecient than the Gary Fisher Sugar.

    Mike

  5. #5
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    This is a very good question...Keep it coming guys...

    I'm getting a new Truth also for my race bike but I would like to hear some more infos from the previous owner what they like and don't like best regarding the Truth...

    Thanks in advance...
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  6. #6
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    I raced my '04 truth last year. It did a lot better than me. I don't do much out of the saddle mashing, but really don't notice much bob when I do. I swapped bikes with one of my friend during a ride last year. He has an '03 or '04 s-works FSR (I think that is the model, it has 3 inches of travel) and I noticed a lot of bob on it. He was referring to my bike as a hard tail and said when he pushed on the pedal and it jumped forward. I have since softened the shock settings a little. I have the Fox AVA.
    With that said, I'm going to build an Enlightenment for this year. A very large number of the racers in my series were doing so with hardtails. The trails were fairly smooth.

  7. #7
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    Blackfly: who shoved that telephone pole up your a**? why do you even bother to read the ells forum?

    i've had six good years of riding on my truth. and that included a number of pretty good crashes. and yet the bike is still better than i am, something to aspire to.

    there may be better bikes out there for specific applications, but for me, the truth is the best.

    if the frame bites it in year seven, after thousands of mtb miles, i'll be happy to pay ells $800 for a crash replacement. and ride that frame for another seven years.

  8. #8
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    I think there's really no such thing as bob-free bike ever made not unless you are riding fully rigid bike...Even my previous VPP Blur has still a little bit of it as well as or the same for several Truths and Moments I saw or ride with on the trails.

    In this case, BOB is not the main argument here since it's all relative to how you smoothly pedal your bike or mash it...

    I would like to hear from previous owners how does it climb and ride down the hill specially on some technical sections...

    once again, Thanks a lot guys for your feedback...
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  9. #9
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    I raced my Truth in XC for about 3 years, moving from Sport to Expert. It's a great race bike, very predictable, no racing weaknesses. It's strongest areas are technical sustained climbing and almost all XC descending- it's great in both. It does reach it's limits in seriously tech terrain descending , such as 1/2-one mile streches of rocks, drops, and waterbars. I've moved to endurance racing now and it's a great bike for that as well. It lasted for 4 years of hard racing/trail riding and still works/rides fine, but has been moved to back-up status as I play with 29-er's, plus she was starting to feel "tired" on the trail. 4 years is fantastic IMO when you ride as much as I have.
    Mike

  10. #10
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    Thanks Mike, sounds like the Truth is the way to go...but now since there's a 29'er thing around you've mentioned :-?

    It leads to another question whether to go for the Truth or for the Evolve...

    That makes this thing even more complicated...
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by biotruth
    Blackfly: who shoved that telephone pole up your a**? why do you even bother to read the ells forum?

    i've had six good years of riding on my truth. and that included a number of pretty good crashes. and yet the bike is still better than i am, something to aspire to.

    there may be better bikes out there for specific applications, but for me, the truth is the best.

    if the frame bites it in year seven, after thousands of mtb miles, i'll be happy to pay ells $800 for a crash replacement. and ride that frame for another seven years.



  12. #12
    mutaullyassuredsuffering
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    Sprint

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullit_cn
    I think there's really no such thing as bob-free bike ever made not unless you are riding fully rigid bike...Even my previous VPP Blur has still a little bit of it as well as or the same for several Truths and Moments I saw or ride with on the trails.

    In this case, BOB is not the main argument here since it's all relative to how you smoothly pedal your bike or mash it...

    I would like to hear from previous owners how does it climb and ride down the hill specially on some technical sections...

    once again, Thanks a lot guys for your feedback...
    Everyone who owns one, admits the Truth is one of the best technical climbers and descenders out there. You are safe there... The question is how does it do as an all out XC racer?

    I stand up and sprint plenty. If you are a good enough pedaler to keep my FS bike from bobbing with no propedal in that situation, than hello Mr. Armstrong..... Pedal and weight activation of the suspension was the main point of this thread.... that why I started it.....

    On smooth terrain, sitting you can do pretty well, but when the going gets rough and steep, it's impossible to control weight bob in the lowest gears entirely with pedal stroke, as you are shifting your body around irregularly. Without some low-speed compression damping you are losing energy. I was looking for input from riders who use their propedal, and how that affected the suspension negatively.
    Free will is an illusion, people will always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

  13. #13
    mutaullyassuredsuffering
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    Reply

    Thanks for all the replies. I appriciate hearing about those who have been successful on the bike. That gives me some more confidence in this decision....
    Free will is an illusion, people will always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

  14. #14
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    OK, I'll try.
    I moved from a Cane Creek air shock with no platform damping to a first generation Fox with ProPedal. It made nothing but positive differences in how the bike felt, but that may be due to the fact that the Fox was just a better shock to begin with.
    Regarding bob- the thing about the Truth design is even when it is moving, you don't feel it- period. At one point, I was regularly riding with 4-5 other riders on Truths at a time. You could see their suspension moving in front of you, knew yours was moving too, and you could feel none of it. That's the beauty of it.

    Regarding the 29-er question- this is a very short answer, but I'm just having fun. I don't feel a 29er would be inherently better for XC racing and might in fact be worse depending on the race course, but while a 29-er is not always better, it is always different in ways that are always fun (but not always measurably better). Vague enough for you?
    Mike

  15. #15
    Silver bullet
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    I bought a Truth last year specifically for racing. As it turned out I only got to do 3 races because of a busy work travel schedule and did really well in those races. I only have a Moment and some past Gary Fisher bikes to campare to so it's tough to offer much info as far as comparing to other bikes. The Fishers I had in the past and still have the Moment as a fun bike. I will say that with the few I have to compare to the Truth is amazingly responsive in pedaling and handeling which makes it a very easy ride. As far as climbing I can say it sticks to the ground on loose and technical stuff really well. I remember doing climbs thinking the I was going to loose traction for sure but as long as I pedaled it keep climbing.
    The only problem I have is that the front seems to want to wash some in turns. I'm trying different stem lengths and tires to work that out. Hopefully I'll get it ironed out. If anyone out there has any suggestion I'd like to hear them.

    As far as the Truth vs 29er you may want to check this string that I found interesting.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...59652#poststop

    Hope this helps.

  16. #16
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    Thanks CD

    anybody else? I'm asking 'coz I'm getting one too...
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  17. #17
    Love the Bike You Ride
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    Monique "Pua" Sawicki does...

    http://www.teammata.com/pua/index.php

    Recent results:

    2007 12 Hours of Temecula, 1st Overall (set male and female record for course)


    2006 Mountain Man Off Road Triathlon, Hawaii, 1st Place (set record)
    24 Hour Solo World Championships, Conyers, GA, 5th Place
    Kona Global 24 Hour, Granby CO, 1st Female
    Endurance 100, Park City, UT, 1st Female (set record), 3rd overall
    Norba National Marathon Championship, Sonoma, CA, 3rd Place
    Norba Marathon, Deer Valley, Utah, 4th Place
    Xterra, Alabama, 5th Place
    Xterra, Temecula, CA, 7th Place
    Spring Challenge, Idyllwild, CA, 2nd Place
    Wildflower Triathlon, Lake San Antonio, CA, 9th Place
    Sea Otter Classic, Monterey, CA, 16th Place
    Xterra Triathalon, Saipan, 3rd Place
    Vision Quest, 1st Place (set record)
    12 Hours of Temecula, 1st Place

    She frequents our shop and she is fast - try and catch her! Her race bike is a Truth and is available at The Path. She is also riding an Ellsworth Scant road bike for cross training.

    Not sure? Come demo one and see for yourself.

    Love The Bike You Ride...
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  18. #18
    Spanish Marathon Racer
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    Beautiful girl
    "Win gives you glory, continue to your last breath gives yo pride, surrender is not an option"
    "Like a beast freed from its chains, I pedal like If I had to scape from hell. As sweat falls from my face, my phantoms, my fears, are left behind until they are points at the horizon."

  19. #19
    mbabaracus
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullit_cn
    I think there's really no such thing as bob-free bike ever made not unless you are riding fully rigid bike...
    Not to argue but I have a 05 Specilized Epic and it is definately bob-free. In fact I would characterize it as a little harsh which is why I'm now in the market for an Ells or a Titus. For a purpose built race bike though, I have to admit the epic is pretty good and I am not a devotee of the big S.

    bm

  20. #20
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    I raced the Truth last year in XC racing only and did very well. I had a Scalpel before, when I got the Truth I shaved about a minute every 6 mile off of my time. this bike is superior to most bikes when pushed to the limits of preformance.

  21. #21
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    ..... sorry, a bit long....

    Quote Originally Posted by used2Bhard
    It seems most Truth owners are using their bikes a trailbikes with the occasional longer race. I'm looking for folks who actually use their Truth as a full-on XC race bike. I don't ever see them at the XC races around here, and like many, I skipped over the Truth when I made my last few bike purchases due to the frame weight and relatively relaxed head angle.

    What I'm interested in is the bobbing of the suspension. Most trailbike riders like a bit of bob for climbing traction and comfort. However, I can ride a higher cog in a race with my suspension locked in stiff propedal versus open on my current bike, and that translates to alot of time over a couple hours.

    I've parking-lot demoed a Truth, and I find that with the FloatR I can get the suspenson moving pretty good in the big ring and especially sprinting. I'm trying to find out if the Truth with an RP23 makes sence. Does restricing the bob with a platform stiffen up the suspension significantly and make it just like the other stiff overdamped race suspensions out there.

    I would like a bike that I can set at a low level of damping (1 or 2 instead of 3 on the RP23) without bobbing all over the course.

    Any Input?
    I built up a (used) '04 Truth about 6 months ago specifically for racing. For about 3 years, I used an Id for everything (trail-riding, XC racing, enduro racing). Although the Id was set up pretty light (under 27lbs), I found it to squat a bit on steep climbs when going to a standing position. This was more obvious when I went to "California Edition" geometry - a shorter rp3 shock, which I balanced out by winding the fork down to 100mm. I still have the Id, now set up heavier for trail riding (pike etc).

    Now on the truth, I notice no squatting or sinking feeling when climbing. The rear end seems to be a good platform to power up hills from. As others have said, if the bike bobs, you can't feel it. I don't feel like I am giving up anything to a hardtail on this bike, other than maybe 2 or 3 pounds. I was running it with an '04 Float R (with AVA, wound in to low volume), and now have a Pushed non-AVA Float R on it, which I haven't yet raced with yet. I'm pretty keen to try out the new shock (after all the raves on here about push), but, given that I haven't ridden the bike for a while, and I am around "average" weight, I doubt I'll be able to tell the difference (the shock is lighter though). The bike was great as it was, but I've probably got upgrade-itis, and wanted to get it under 24 pounds.

    When I was looking at potential race bikes (just before I got the truth), I looked at the other obvious XC FS bikes, such as the scalpel and the epic. Unlike you, I was of the opinion that the truth was a pretty light bike (and it has 100mm travel too). Is the '07 about 2400grams (frame/shock)? There's not many FS's lighter than that (yeah, yeah, there's Scott's, Nitrous, extralite's, but bit too exotic for me). My friend has an Anthem (not the top model, so heavier than my bike) which probably is a slighly lighter frame/shock than mine, but he has mentioned that he has been playing around with air in the rear shock to try and reduce the bob. I dunno if it's the design of the bikes, or the "bob" tolerance of the riders, but I don't have any complaints with my truth. Yeah, he does a lot of riding on his road bike (has a heckler too), but I get around on my hardtail commuter (slicks) throughout the working week, so it is not like I don't know how a rigid rear triangle feels like when putting max power down. Yeah, the truth might bob when violently stomping the pedals, but don't think I'm losing much there (if any). It might have to do with the years spent on the Id, which may have altered my pedalling style - it might be different for someone coming off a hardtail though. I also find myself in the saddle through almost anything, including the bumpier fast sections, something my friend has said he simply cannot do on his anthem ("ride it like a hardtail" he says).

    Another thing you need to consider is that the '04+ truths are now set up to be run with very low platform damping - they don't need much of it. The design previous to that (-'03) probably needed more platform to stop bobbing. So, keep it in mind, if you decide to get a new truth and slap a rp23 on it, especially if it is an after market shock. Get the "light" propedal shock (does fox still have that?). Otherwise, you will find the propedal a bit strong on all but the softest setting. On that note, if you are a mid-race rear shock tinkerer (and your race courses are appropriate for it), you will probaly find benefit flicking it to full propedal on longer smoother climbs if you are one to stand and hammer uphill at times. Does the '07 truth allow the rp3/rp23 to be mounted upright and forward? ie. the propedal lever at the top, and to the front. The air valve might get in the way of the rocker. If that's the case, you might have to mount it upside down or backwards, which makes the pro-pedal level hard to reach in the heat of battle. I certainly did benefit switching to full-propedal on my Id's RP3, but the benefit would be much reduced on a newer truth. If you air up the rear shock on a truth to somewhere near the "sweet spot" (mine works well from a bit over 90psi, up to nearly 110psi), it won't bob noticeably even with minimal pro-pedal - unless you are a hardtail rider, standing, and on pavement smooth climbs. The bob you noticed in the parking lot would very likely not be noticeable when riding offroad (and you aren't looking at the shock).

    So, to answer you questions....... put around the right amount of air in the shock (about 25% sag), and, yes, a rp3/23 on "firm" (3) propedal will barely move unless you are a really heavy stomper. Also, given the design of the suspension, riding at propedal 1 won't noticebly bob, unless you are always standing up or are super sensitive to bobbing.

    Having said all this, if you tend to get out of the saddle at some stage on every single climb, you should probably go a VPP or Epic.

    hope this helps

  22. #22
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    Ellsworth Frame Failures

    I have/had raced my Truth at a few 24hr and 12hr races until the main triangle split into two pieces. I had it for about 8 months when the 1st break occured right below the gusset on the seat tube. Ellsworth did replace it with my choice of a moment, id or another truth. I went with the id and that lastest 4 months and three races. This time the swingarm cracked at the pivot. I think it is time to move on to something more dependable since I do not have the same luxury as Pua to receive free frames. The bike road great but I have run into too many Ellsworth owners that have had frame failures.

  23. #23
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    And again. To think I am being harsh. I do not know this rider nor did I pay him to say this.

    I NEVER had a frame failure problem with E. I am only upset with the fact that E was the freeride frame to have, and it turned out that it was only a turd. Rear ends broke En Masse, and confidence was lost. Again, to have a freeride market consider you God only to lose it is pure stupidity. No Dares were ever reported broken or lost; then again, most could not afford it. The Joker was the bike of choice not by design but cost. You see them no more.

    I understand that quality counts, but at the cost of soul or the backbone of what you are riding then it matters. The Rogue is not, and never will be, a full DH bike. For anyone to race this is pure stupidity and to ask the paying E customer to finance his/her many race breakages. If one is going to enter a pure DH market, then at least make such a bike but from my friends purchase of a Rogue, and quick sale, I do not see this. The Foes 2:1 mono, of which I almost purchased, seems more fitting. You make, and sell, what is needed.

    I did not think E would be out of the XC market too, but if Screaming BLke Monkeys' post is true, then God help E.

    The Shore won't.

  24. #24
    sock puppet
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    hehe, monkey and his 2 posts...

    and his funny english....

    you guys are really bored... i guess boredom brings stupid ideas...

    blackfly, did you dust off your fly? are you going to take it to SHORE? i mean REALLY?


    Quote Originally Posted by blackfly
    And again. To think I am being harsh. I do not know this rider nor did I pay him to say this.

    I NEVER had a frame failure problem with E. I am only upset with the fact that E was the freeride frame to have, and it turned out that it was only a turd. Rear ends broke En Masse, and confidence was lost. Again, to have a freeride market consider you God only to lose it is pure stupidity. No Dares were ever reported broken or lost; then again, most could not afford it. The Joker was the bike of choice not by design but cost. You see them no more.

    I understand that quality counts, but at the cost of soul or the backbone of what you are riding then it matters. The Rogue is not, and never will be, a full DH bike. For anyone to race this is pure stupidity and to ask the paying E customer to finance his/her many race breakages. If one is going to enter a pure DH market, then at least make such a bike but from my friends purchase of a Rogue, and quick sale, I do not see this. The Foes 2:1 mono, of which I almost purchased, seems more fitting. You make, and sell, what is needed.

    I did not think E would be out of the XC market too, but if Screaming BLke Monkeys' post is true, then God help E.

    The Shore won't.

  25. #25
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    Here is the proof

    Here is the proof of the 1st failure, I haven't taken a photo of the 2nd yet as I discovered it today.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  26. #26
    sock puppet
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    please allow me to doubt you...

    Quote Originally Posted by Screaming BIke Monkey
    Here is the proof of the 1st failure, I haven't taken a photo of the 2nd yet as I discovered it today.
    i realize that you may be totally legit, in which case i will apologize... it is hard to take someone seriously with total of 2 posts, second one of which is the one about broken frame...

    anyone can find pics on the net and post them here to stir the crap... please post pics of your broken ID... if you could, put one of your favourite gloves on the top tube, and i will admit i was wrong...

    please ignore blackfly... he's got some issues and is currently attending rehab for substance abuse... if you saw his bike, you'd know what i am talking about...

    although there were some broken IDs (rich - for one that i know) - personally, i cant imagine what one would have to do to break it... i have both the truth and ID and ID is like truth on steroids... broken ones must be due to defect, and it happens to mercedes benz, let alone EW...

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfly
    The Shore won't.
    LOL, blackfly speaks for the entire Shore around the world!

    The lads on 'our' shore have a real laugh at this guy.


    "The Shore won't" LOL!
    "but I do not see anything in the world of suspension methods that is superior to the 4 Bar.

    Dave Turner


  28. #28
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    Truth = fast xc race bike

    I wouldn't bother with the RP23 on the Truth. I've raced I raced a 2003 then a 2004 Truth until last month (sold, waiting for new one ). I'm 69kg and raced the Truth as an out and out xc race bike in the UK. I used both an AVA Float and Float R. With the shock set up for my weight I could hardly get it to bob and if it was it wasn't wasting enough energy to slow me down. I did ok in the races (Expert Cat, regular podiums).

    I've raced my E'light a few times as well, it's slower. It's 2lbs lighter, but slower. IMHO if your standing up and honking at every opportunity on the Truth then you're not riding it in the most efficient way anyway. It lets you glide over the ground when siting and driving on, esp roots and ruts, whilst others are out the saddle bouncing off roots wasting energy....

    Hope you have fun with yours

  29. #29
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    I got mine on order too and its expected to arrive early april...it will be racing weapon too...can't wait to get it build and ridden...thanks for the feedbacks...
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  30. #30
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    For Osokolo

    Here is the photo of the latest frame failure on my 2006 ID. I will contact Ellsworth today to see what they say.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  31. #31
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    my apologies...

    i hope you understand why i was a bit suspicious about your post...

    yes, we''ve seen few of these fail... as a matter of fact - swingarm failed on my truth at exactly the same point...

    good thing was i received replacement in two days (needed my truth for 24 hrs race that coming weekend) and the new swingarm was the UPDATED design - which i like much better...

    i dont know if new design swingarm is available for ID... i am sure EW will take care of you promptly and properly... good luck...



    Quote Originally Posted by Screaming BIke Monkey
    Here is the photo of the latest frame failure on my 2006 ID. I will contact Ellsworth today to see what they say.

  32. #32
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    i hope you understand why i was a bit suspicious about your post...

    yes, we''ve seen few of these fail... as a matter of fact - swingarm failed on my truth at exactly the same point...

    good thing was i received replacement in two days (needed my truth for 24 hrs race that coming weekend) and the new swingarm was the UPDATED design - which i like much better...

    i dont know if new design swingarm is available for ID... i am sure EW will take care of you promptly and properly... good luck...
    Did you pay for your upgrade?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo

    although there were some broken IDs (rich - for one that i know) - personally, i cant imagine what one would have to do to break it
    Well, riding it seems to do it.

    You forgot about the flawed rockers on the first ones?

    The chainstay problem is also KNOWN.

    How can you say that you can't "imagine" what it would take to break one with these two known flaws?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  34. #34
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    nope... it was warranty replacement...

    i only paid for shipping...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Did you pay for your upgrade?

  35. #35
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    IDs had only handful of breakages..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Well, riding it seems to do it.

    You forgot about the flawed rockers on the first ones?

    The chainstay problem is also KNOWN.

    How can you say that you can't "imagine" what it would take to break one with these two known flaws?
    do you know of more instances???

    i still think that given the number of IDs out there, it is pretty darn good...

    chainstay is a KNOWN problem, i dont think rocker is, or was...

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Well, riding it seems to do it.

    You forgot about the flawed rockers on the first ones?

    The chainstay problem is also KNOWN.

    How can you say that you can't "imagine" what it would take to break one with these two known flaws?
    ahh the predictable saddo returns *yawn*
    "but I do not see anything in the world of suspension methods that is superior to the 4 Bar.

    Dave Turner


  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    do you know of more instances???

    i still think that given the number of IDs out there, it is pretty darn good...

    chainstay is a KNOWN problem, i dont think rocker is, or was...

    How easily you forget. Pete's Id was one of the first, with the flawed rocker set. After the failure, they wanted him to pay to "upgrade". This problem was taken care of early on by switching the design and forcing people to "upgrade", although I'm sure there are still ones out there....

    Not much of a stretch considering that someone actually WROTE one of the mtb magazines a few years back after an ellsworth failure and switchout during a test, to say that ellsworth's claim of "we've never seen that failure before" was untrue because the submitter had the same problem and was told the same thing. It just goes to show that they were more than happy to tell everyone that "we've never seen that before", thereby making it impossible to actually determine how many bikes were affected. If I remember correctly this had something to do with "D" shaped seatstays...

    I say given the number of ellsworths that are out there, considering that they are a low volume manufacturer, the number of failed seat stays on the truths is very alarming, not to mention failures of other models. I'm starting to keep a catalog of em because they are so entertaining.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    How easily you forget. Pete's Id was one of the first, with the flawed rocker set. After the failure, they wanted him to pay to "upgrade". This problem was taken care of early on by switching the design and forcing people to "upgrade", although I'm sure there are still ones out there....
    You have confirmation on this claim? I though Pete's beef was that they claimed he rode it too hard and bottomed it out, so they argued his claim-- not that he had to pay for an upgrade. I know it's still bad customer service, but confirm your facts please.

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    yep, remember that pretty well...

    my facts are based on failure reports on this board... other than pete, i dont remember anyone else breaking their rocker, although some pics were posted in the process...

    in any case, everyone knew about pete's beef as he published it in his entertaining way...

    EW should have taken care of him, but then, knowing pete through his posts around here, i dont know what he did/said to escalate the confrontation... or did it come from the other end...


    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    You have confirmation on this claim? I though Pete's beef was that they claimed he rode it too hard and bottomed it out, so they argued his claim-- not that he had to pay for an upgrade. I know it's still bad customer service, but confirm your facts please.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    my facts are based on failure reports on this board... other than pete, i dont remember anyone else breaking their rocker, although some pics were posted in the process...
    Pete was one of the first who had an Id with the bad rockers. I believe they caught that defect early and not only changed the design, but added the "x" piece to the ones they produce. Thus, not too many got out of the factory so we don't see too many breaks.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screaming BIke Monkey
    Here is the photo of the latest frame failure on my 2006 ID. I will contact Ellsworth today to see what they say.
    There is no such thing as a 2006 Id. Check your serial nuber on the BB shell; I suspect your Id is an '02/'03. I hope you weren't sold an '02/'03 as an '06...
    Your frame is equipped with the very early chainstay that was prone to developing a crack at that location. EW did two more running production changes to the chainstays to help stop the crack issue; however, nothing is unbreakable.

    The current (asymetrical and symetrical) chainstays will fit on your Id.

    Thanks,
    Mondo
    Sold the Id; riding the Rogue, saving for an Evolve...I ride, I know.

    mondo@thepathbikeshop.com

    http://www.thepathbikeshop.com

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Id Rider
    There is no such thing as a 2006 Id. Check your serial nuber on the BB shell; I suspect your Id is an '02/'03. I hope you weren't sold an '02/'03 as an '06...
    0'4 might have been the last year model...but my memory is fading. Definitely not '06, LOL! Good catch on that one.

  43. #43
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    Ouch...

    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    0'4 might have been the last year model...but my memory is fading. Definitely not '06, LOL! Good catch on that one.
    now i notice the old, old style chainstay... i guess, not the '06 ID...

    hmmmmmmmm

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screaming BIke Monkey
    Here is the photo of the latest frame failure on my 2006 ID. I will contact Ellsworth today to see what they say.
    Thats almost exactly where my Truth 04 had a crack , took it back to where I bought it Freeborn (Horsham) and they gave me a replacement part with an added X in the stay under warrenty at no cost to me

    They said it may have been caused by my shock bottoming out too much, but the new X brace should prevent it from happening again.

  45. #45
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    so what did EW say?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Screaming BIke Monkey
    Here is the photo of the latest frame failure on my 2006 ID. I will contact Ellsworth today to see what they say.
    are you getting new chainstay???

  46. #46
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    I live here. I do not take it to the Shore, it takes me. I am resting a knee that has just been scoped. ACL like most. I would take it more, but you don't understand. Rain, snow nor day or light deters me, despite my knee. Can you say the same? Talk to me after your ACL completely tears. I might respect you then.

  47. #47
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    Hey buddy. I had 2 Dares. The 2000 model and the 2001 model (last of the tube designs and the first of the extruded designs, respectively). I loved the bike. Rode well, handled well and was extremely well made. But time has caught up with the ICT design. My Fly is plush and ramps up as needed. I could NEVER, even with a ramp up shock (Fox DHX 5.0) get the rear end of the Dare to feel like my Fly. My friends' Rogue was the last incarnation, and despite the latest shock technology, the linear rate rear end the ICT offers is past its time. At least for hard core riding. IF one is a XC rider, it is the best. Bar none. I will not dispute this. BUT for the riding I am concerned with, it is not. Had it, tried it. Would of bought it had it worked.

    Please do not make replies to my posts in idiom. I am not some idiot. Rather. I am a former E owner and lover and is pissed the company could of really captured the FR/DH market and blew it. How would you feel over a company you loved? But to think I am ignorant is simply absurd. I had 2 E's and can speak from experience. And I have NEVER lamented about the quality or craftmanship. But that matters little if the product works as intended.

  48. #48
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    ah you are full of $hit...

    you respect people with torn ACLs? you need help...

    i have reconstructed ACL in my left knee, broke pretty much all major bone in my body, multiple fractures at times, last one of which happened last year when i fractured 5 bones in my skull - i was back on my bike within 1 week... are you respecting me now??? i am not proud of any of these injuries... your damaged knee makes you feel bigger and more important... phew...

    i will respect you when you start making sense and stop BSing... if you can...

    now STFU and take your crap to some other board...


    Quote Originally Posted by blackfly
    I live here. I do not take it to the Shore, it takes me. I am resting a knee that has just been scoped. ACL like most. I would take it more, but you don't understand. Rain, snow nor day or light deters me, despite my knee. Can you say the same? Talk to me after your ACL completely tears. I might respect you then.

  49. #49
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    I am going on three weeks and I have heard nothing from Ellsworth directly. My LBS told me that Ellsworth would warranty the stay on my '04 ID (not '06 as earlier reported) with a '07 Truth stay. My LBS said that EW is behind in their production and that is the reason for the delay. I think that the delay however has been with my LBS. The funny thing is that I live 10 miles from EW and I still had to mail the frame in through the LBS. I sent an email to EW 1 week ago but they have not responded.

  50. #50
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    The Truth and the ID share(d) the same chainstay.

    EW has been ramping up for and attending the Sea Otter; probably why they are somewhat backed up. However, you should have been taken care of by now. I suspect that the backup is not associated with chainstays; but front triangles (if in fact it is an EW thing). Sounds like your LBS is backed up; not EW.

    Did you get an RA#?
    Sold the Id; riding the Rogue, saving for an Evolve...I ride, I know.

    mondo@thepathbikeshop.com

    http://www.thepathbikeshop.com

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