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  1. #1
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    Ventana El Ciclon vs. Ellsworth Epiphany

    Looking at purchasing either the Epiphany or El Ciclon. I'm a downhiller at heart that is getting a bit older and more into long backcountry rides. Want something that I can bomb on but will also climb well...with that I've narrowed it down to these two. Also, anyone 5'7", ~180, w/ a 28" inseam riding either of these bikes? What size are you riding? Preference between the two? Thanks!

  2. #2
    brainwashed jingoist
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    Both are obviously nice bikes. Throw Turner in the mix for some more decison making!!!


    I wonder which one they are suggesting you buy on the Ventana board??
    Love is the answer - but while you're waiting for the answer, sex raises some pretty interesting questions.

  3. #3
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    The Moment would be a much better comparison to the El Ciclon than the Epiphany. These are both really nice frame and both have their pluses, minuses

    Moment
    - Super plush
    - Suspension offers tons of traction
    - Climbs great
    - Really FUN geometry
    - Anodized for durability
    - Everyone wants to talk to you about your bike

    El Ciclon
    - Ventana is an amazing company to deal with
    - Amazing looking paint job
    - Ventana frames are amazingly stiff. You can fell the difference how it holds corners
    - Suspension will feel snappier IMHO
    - No one knows what a Ventana is on the trails and dont have to answer so many questions

    Either way you are looking at too great bikes. Check out the geometry and try to stand over one to see how you fit on it.

  4. #4
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    I agree that these two bikes are different in their own way.

    The Epiphany is sort of like a XC/Endurance/Marathon mountain bike. It is LIGHT for the travel it has and has a SOLID feel for it's weight. It really works best with a front shock running around 120mm to 130mm. But, even at the 120mm travel setting you can REALLY hit the downhill sections with alot of SPEED and CONFIDENCE.

    With the right suspension setup, it will just eat up trail and climb like no other as you ride in real plush comfort. Realize that the EPI's rear end will feel solid (unlike what some say on the Ventana side) and at the same time when you are riding along and look down at the rear shock it is ACTIVE as heck just eating up the bumps. When you HAVE to stand up to clear that last bit of hill as you start to slow down, the EPI will dig in and reward you with great climbing traction to put that big effort to work for you. Want to stand up and hammer along a certain section?? The Epi will have VERY LITTLE pedal bob. This is all without ANY Propedal. Also, that ANO finish is tough as hell and will look new/sexy for a LONG time.

    Bottom Line: I have never felt faster on another bike and when I decide to extend my ride for another hour or 2, this bike says OK let's go. It is light enough to keep you riding faster, longer on gnarlier terrain than a XC bike can handle. That is why this bike is a better fit for me.

    Although, I haven't ridden one (but I honesly looked heavily at it before purchasing the EPI), the El Ciclon is built up a bit more burly and has a more relaxed geometry. Seems like a 140mm to 130mm shock would work better on that bike. El Ciclon is more of an AM bike compared to EPI. It looks like it could handle bigger drops and I bet going DH on that bike is a big thrill. I would also bet that it would climb very well, but not as well as the EPI.

    So, I would say that it really depends on what you want to do with a bike. I live in TN with tons of hills everywhere and I love the challenge that climbing offers. I also plan on doing some endurance racing as some point and I think the EPI with it's lighter weight fits this bill perfectly. If you want to do more AMish riding and have a blast doing it, then the Ciclon would probably be better for you.

  5. #5
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    Ventena vs. Ellsworth

    I have an E-TRUTH and my twin brother has a V-SALT. What I can tell you about these two bikes is that both are very well made and as stated above have distinctive advantages.
    The TRUTH is a faster bike and to me seems a little more willing to climb and zoom through single track (East Coast). I love that it also has very responsive small bump protection as a result of the ICT suspension (RP23).
    When going places that are more technical, the TRUTH is awesome, but I have to admit that I have this fear of dropping my bike on this terrain. I have a miniature ding on the top tube from a minor plunge. The aluminum is made so light that you run the risk of slight damage depending on how you ride. I’m more of a finesse rider and rarely take risk outside of my skill set so I’m ok with this frame. It’s a very light bike if built up properly as you know and you will enjoy it. It’s not a weak frame by any means, but a little thinner then that of the beefy Salt.
    The El Salt is an amazing bike!! I can’t front, this whip is major!! My brother and I switched a few times on one of the more familiar trails we have in DE. The one thing I remember saying at the end of the ride is this bike feels as if I just rode over a pillow when descending some of the technical sections in this area. I’m use to this loop on my TRUTH, so I expect a certain feel when conquering some sections. The El Ciclon is the El Salt with more travel. The Epiphany is the TRUTH with more travel. I have not ridden either of these two, but what I know about the lil brothers of these bikes is that both are really nice and I would not mind owning either!!

    Bottom line; ask yourself if you want to be a faster rider at this stage or if you’re looking for a more comfortable ride. I think the short rocker of the Ventena has a lot to do with the lateral stiffness. My brother has the quad barring option. The TRUTH has a stiff rear, but not as stiff as the Salt. The TRUTH will smoke that Salt on climbs, but going down hill the Salt catches up once again.
    Last edited by aries14; 12-02-2007 at 08:28 AM.
    Work Hard 2 Play Hard!!!

  6. #6
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    I'm looking at purchasing a new ride and have narrowed it down to Epi vs Ibis Mojo. I live in So. Calif. San Bernardino Mts. and therefore do much climbing. I need a bike to be light, and to pedal efficiently. My perfect day is Church on sunday morning, and 4 hr epic ride sunday afternoon. I have been riding my Gary Fisher OCLV procaliber for 12 yrs. and am ready for a full suspention ride now.

  7. #7
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    The Epi and Mojo geometry are quite different. The Epi is more open and XC feeling compared to the Mojo which has a more upright riding position. The HT angle is 1 degree slacker on the Mojo as well. I was attracted to both bikes but found the Epi geo much more to my liking and riding style. I favor a longer TT and a slightly more XC riding feel. The Epi is a little more laid back than the somewhat twitchy Truth. It can handle some aggressive terrain and cadillac right through it. The Epi has a broad application of conditions it excels in. It climbs well and is a very efficient pedaling bike in my experience. Although they are both outstanding bikes I would encourage you to make the effort to demo both as their riding style and geo is quite different. Which one you favor will depend upon which ride suits your style best.
    Good luck. It's an enjoyable pusuit.

  8. #8
    HIYAH
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    I canít front, this whip is major!!

    I must be getting old...
    TTHHHHHHHHHPPPPPPPPPTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

  9. #9
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    Not old

    Quote Originally Posted by On-One
    I must be getting old...
    Nah, your just Mid West and I'm North East.. Dat all.
    Work Hard 2 Play Hard!!!

  10. #10
    HIYAH
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    either way I can't front...I just don't know how..?
    TTHHHHHHHHHPPPPPPPPPTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalea
    Want to stand up and hammer along a certain section?? The Epi will have VERY LITTLE pedal bob. This is all without ANY Propedal.
    That statement makes no sense to me. The ICT suspension, while pretty neutral to chain-torque influence, does not resist weight changes on the pedals at all. If you stand and mash on the pedals, without using something like propedal, it will definitely bob big time. In fact, it will bob more than many single pivot bikes, VPP bikes, DW bikes.

    I'm a fan of the ICT suspension, but it's strengths lie in it's active , neutral suspension, not in any anti bob... since it has none. Heck, even Ellsworth doesn't brag about it's performance while standing and hammering.

  12. #12
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    if yer going to spend that kind of money, def look at turner, titus, and knolly. i think the knolly endorphin is what you need to seek out, personally....
    ride fast...take chances...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by iridetitus
    if yer going to spend that kind of money, def look at turner, titus, and knolly. i think the knolly endorphin is what you need to seek out, personally....
    You've probably never even ridden a Knolly.... or an Ellsworth for that matter!!!

    Move along Troll!!!!!

  14. #14
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    Which one?

    I think Aries is correct..The Ells is a faster bike, not as stiff in the Rocky Tech stuff or cornering but one hell of a climber. the Ventana will be heavier and better on the Tech stuff and is a good Tech Climber in it's own right..I noticed that on the flat climbs the Ells is a lot more efficient but when the climb is Rocky and rooty I prefer the Ventana. Your choice will depend on these type of things.
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    Last edited by streetpro0323; 12-27-2007 at 01:05 PM. Reason: Pic to start ya up again!!

  15. #15
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    Quote Originally Posted by iegge10
    Looking at purchasing either the Epiphany or El Ciclon. I'm a downhiller at heart that is getting a bit older and more into long backcountry rides. Want something that I can bomb on but will also climb well...with that I've narrowed it down to these two. Also, anyone 5'7", ~180, w/ a 28" inseam riding either of these bikes? What size are you riding? Preference between the two? Thanks!
    I ride an El Ciclon and I can say it's a multi purpose type of bike....I race it and trail ride. I'm a little bias since I live in Sacramento and know Sherwood as a fellow racer.....if I were going to drop that kind of coin I would set up some test rides to compare apples-2-apples. Because a Salty rides way different then a Ciclon....the difference is about 2.5 degrees in head angle. If you're local to Sacramento you're more then welcome to through a leg over my Ciclon.

  16. #16
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    I have had an Ellsworth Truth and Epiphany, but recently switched over to Ventana. Ellsworth makes qualities bikes and as numerous replies have said that both bring their unique characteristics to the table. ICT is a brilliant invention, it reduces bobbing and climbs, descends, and makes shifting a breeze. However, sometimes the ICT can diminish the ride quality. I switched over to an El Ciclon and I could never be happier. I feel like I'm not wasting nearly as much energy as I was on my Epiphany. Not knocking the Epiphany, just saying that the El Ciclon helps you centralize your power and push more through corners and climbs as opposed to the Epiphany. I'm 5'7" 145 pounds and I suit up with a Medium Epiphany and a Medium El Ciclon, the sizes run pretty similar from both companies. The "sex welds" on the Ventana are bar none some of the best craftsmanship I have ever seen. Ventana's El Ciclon is a very strong, light, versatile frame that can take anything your throw at it. Ventana's customer support is incredible and very useful, should you ever have a problem. Quad Bearings compared with the RP23 make the Ventana El Ciclon essentially the best All Mountain frame I have ever ridden.


    Both are great frames (Epiphany and El Ciclon), my best advice is to go out and try to demo them both if you can. One big downside to Ventana is finding a dealer or service tech anywhere. Not nearly as big of a company, but the craftsmanship of the frame is nothing to worry about...Unless your doing 6-10" drops.

    Hope this helps somewhat...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by streetpro0323
    I think Aries is correct..The Ells is a faster bike, not as stiff in the Rocky Tech stuff or cornering but one hell of a climber. the Ventana will be heavier and better on the Tech stuff and is a good Tech Climber in it's own right..I noticed that on the flat climbs the Ells is a lot more efficient but when the climb is Rocky and rooty I prefer the Ventana. Your choice will depend on these type of things.
    Sombodies got an addiction...

    It's ok, I'm just jealous!

  18. #18
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    You won't go wrong with the Epi but it definitely leans more toward being a long legged xc bike than an "all mountain" ride. Ventana bikes look dead sexy. You can demo Ventana bikes through Competitive Cyclist for $200. You get a week to ride and that includes shipping costs

    Buy yourself a Giant Trance XO and save some cash. You get a great bike for $3,700. It's spec'd really nice and I'm guessing it is probably easier to find a Giant dealer than these boutique makers. Just my 2 cents

  19. #19
    Daniel the Dog
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    Laughing

    Quote Originally Posted by On-One
    I must be getting old...
    I hope just hope the guy is front whipping in private. I don't want to see that on the trail

    Jaybo

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by EVERYUSERNAMEISTAKEN
    Sombodies got an addiction...

    It's ok, I'm just jealous!

    Hey..I only own the Ventana, The rest belong to the gang I ride with. We switch bikes all the time and that gives me the chance to bust some stones since they alll Agree my Ventana is the BOMB (plus they all are getting one with there next bike purchase)

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