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Thread: Truth vs. Flux

  1. #1
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    Truth vs. Flux

    I'll soon be having a new 4" travel trail bike built, and it will be either an Ellsworth Truth or a Turner Flux. This has turned out to be a difficult decision, so I'm soliciting input. Here is what I've considered to this point to be the main differences, in no particular order:

    ~ Frame metrics: Truth has better standover and BB clearance.

    ~ Aesthetic detail: Truth has laser-etched logos, Flux has decals.

    ~ Cable routing: (FWIW) Truth routes on the bottom of the top tube, Flux routes on top.

    ~ Rear triangle configuration: Flux has a pivot on the seat stay, while the Truth's is on the chain stay.

    ~ Pivot maintenance: A debate within itself, the Truth has bearings and the Flux has bushings (and zerk fittings).

    All the other factors which I've considered are ties, or are close enough to me objectively, that they do not merit any weight.

    I also expect to get a new XC race bike soon, and there is little doubt but that it will be a Turner Nitrous. That would seem to make a much better case for the Flux, thinking about things like similar ride feel characteristics, similar maintenance routines, and synergies/leverage with the one vendor.

    Thoughts, anyone?
    Last edited by bowerg; 01-09-2007 at 12:54 PM.

  2. #2
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    Rear Triangle of the Turner has one less pivot? huh?

    It has the same amount of pivots, it's just the newer ones have pivots in a different position (on the seat stay instead of the chain stay)
    "[SIZE="3"][SIZE="2"]but I do not see anything in the world of suspension methods that is superior to the 4 Bar.

    Dave Turner[/SIZE][/SIZE]

  3. #3
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    I'm posting here rather than the Turner board since this will get fewer replies. I have a Turner and and Ellsworth so I know them both pretty well.

    My question is if you are buying a race bike in the future anyway, why not consider a 5" travel trail bike like an Epiphany or 5 spot, or yeti or a titus?

    Other considerations for you since you are looking at details like cable routing.

    Cost of frames: Ellsworth are more expensive.

    Horst-link or not: Turners have faux bar.

    Tire clearance: Turners have substantially more clearance.

    I think the cable routing is a non-issue. Aestetics is in the beholder, I think turner rockers are personally more beautiful, While Ells front triangles are more elegant--once again this is personal taste.
    Last edited by lidarman; 01-09-2007 at 12:04 PM.

  4. #4
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    Rule out by test riding.

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    Do you really want a 4"inch "Single pivot" bike? Get the Truth. Don't listen to the haters on the Turner Forum, they all talk about the "Ellsworth" that they like to make up gabbing to each other. Little to none of them have acually experience with Ellsworth, or its product, or its CS, but like lemmings they all..... The Truth is a much better bike. But ride both of them and see what works best for you.

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    I agree with Lidarman, if you're going to buy a Nitrous (for sure), I'd pick a bike with more travel than 4". Between the Nitrous and Flux/Truth, you're going to get a lot of overlap. There are lot's of fantastic bikes out there now so try to ride as many you can.

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    I have a 05 Flux with Horst link (pre-TNT) and I think it's a phenomenal bike. You mention standover height, before you decide which one is higher or lower make sure they are measured the same way. Don't go by the manufacturers numbers unless you know where they measured it.

    You mention you are looking at a Nitrous. Maybe you are on the pro circuit, in which case my comment is pointless but if that's not the case, why not race the Flux? The weight difference is maybe one pound and if you get a taller fork (100-120mm) for trail riding and a lower and lighter fork (80mm) for racing and run the shock a little stiffer I don't think it would really hinder your efforts.

    As far as Horst vs. TNT, as I said I own a Horst Flux and have ridden a Horst 5 Spot, TNT 5 Spot and I recently built a TNT RFX. I can't tell the difference between the two designs when I ride the bike. Maybe I am unsophisticated, I really wanted to feel a difference when I rode the TNT 5 Spot in Moab for a week last fall, but I couldn't. You should try to throw a leg on one of these bikes and see if the 1mm difference in axle path between Horst and TNT on the Flux is important to you.

    I live in upstate NY and both my Flux and RFX are size medium. If you are in the northeast and want to try my Flux out you are welcome to send me a PM and we can go for a ride if the weather holds up.

    Either way, you are going to be happy with your choice, they are both awesome bikes.

    Cheers!

  8. #8
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    overlap issue

    No doubt, it's clearly understood and deliberate that there will be quite a bit of overlap between the Truth/Flux and the Nitrous.

    Firstly, I live in Michigan, where 5" of travel would be overkill. Granted I spend 2-3 weeks per year in western NC and/or the Rockies, but that's not enough to me to justify that volume of travel. Secondly, the Truth/Flux would be primarily a trail bike as indicated, but also a XC race bike in select circumstances. Third, I'm an oldster (man, closing in much too quickly on 50 ) and just normally don't ride much crazy-technical stuff and/or bomb downhill at warp speed over obstacles. And, even with all that aside, there is always the possibility of adding that 5-incher to my collection

  9. #9
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    Can't go wrong either way

    Both are outstanding bikes. The differences between the two have been well addressed above. I used to own a Truth (older bushing model) and now I own an RFX. Perhaps our definitions of "trail bike" are different, but I would not put the Truth or Flux in that category.

    I think the one thing to be cautious of here is warranty. If, as you say, you are looking for a "trail bike" I would assume that you are going to be riding more aggressively on it. In that case, you may (heaven forbid) end up in a warranty situation. While Ells has improved their warranty service I would still give the edge here to Turner. That, and the fact that I like bushings over bearings, would push me to the Flux. But, I absolutely loved my Truth when I had it.
    "I didn't even use crutches when I broke my leg!" - Aquaholic

  10. #10
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    I also ride a Turner (Burner in this case) and rode a Truth a few times. Some have mentioned the geometry considerations and you may want to consider weighting that a little more. The Truth is a little steeper in the front and possibly more of a 'race' bike geometry-wise than the Flux. Given your comments on less technical trails, you may be better off with the Truth. By the way - although everyone always recommends to test ride them both, bare in mind that unless they are set up with the same components and really tuned for you you can still get a false reading. Nothing is perfect - sorry!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowerg
    No doubt, it's clearly understood and deliberate that there will be quite a bit of overlap between the Truth/Flux and the Nitrous.

    Firstly, I live in Michigan, where 5" of travel would be overkill. Granted I spend 2-3 weeks per year in western NC and/or the Rockies, but that's not enough to me to justify that volume of travel. Secondly, the Truth/Flux would be primarily a trail bike as indicated, but also a XC race bike in select circumstances. Third, I'm an oldster (man, closing in much too quickly on 50 ) and just normally don't ride much crazy-technical stuff and/or bomb downhill at warp speed over obstacles. And, even with all that aside, there is always the possibility of adding that 5-incher to my collection
    I grew up in MI and began riding there and I'd agree that 5" of travel may be overkill, but with the efficiency of modern bikes and shocks, it's not that you would feel like the travel caused the ride to suffer in any way. I was home in June of this year and rode my Moment on some of the SE MI trails I used to ride on a hardtail...best ride ever! If anything, the added travel allowed me to ride faster than in the past. Initially, I had dialed down the travel up front to 5", but dialed it back up to 6" because it felt more balanced.

    A bike like the Epiphany is really designed more on the light end of the spectrum and its angles more "racey". I don't think this bike would be overkill - it's efficient and fast. That being said, the 4" platforms you're looking at are really good for MI riding, though I think it's more about the geometry than the travel. I know some have commented that the Flux has a better HA for descending, but in reality, descending is not something that's really scarry in MI.

    Personally, I think a 29" suspension bike would just be perfect for MI riding, with it's undulating hills, sandy flats and rooty/rocky gardens. You might take a look at the Evolve or Sultan if 29" bikes fit your needs. It would probably be more "trail" oriented than "race", but if you check out the latest thread on the Iceman Cometh race (in Passion), many folks are planning on riding 29" bikes.

  12. #12
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    ok this may sound silly, but if you're definitely gonna buy the nitrous, then i suggest u get the truth. So u get the TNT and ICT, DT's cs and TE's antics, Ying & Yang.... at least you never have to wonder if the grass is greener at the other side...

    though i agree with lidarman, a nitrous is better mated with an epi or spot

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparst
    ... So u get the TNT and ICT, DT's cs and TE's antics, Ying & Yang.... at least you never have to wonder if the grass is greener at the other side...
    Hehehe.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

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