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  1. #1
    The Dude Abides
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    Steerer gouge situation update

    Since the last thread turned into a nightmare, I decided to start a new one. There hasn't been a strong Ells bashing thread in quite some time, and I certainly wasn't missing them. I've never like the overly negative and often naive comments that build in those threads. I apologize for creating the beast, as it was never my intention to start a hate rally.

    I need to convey that I've been in contact with Aimee at Ellsworth and she has been extremely helpful in resolving the issue. They were able to offer me a brand new Moment frame for no cost and special pricing on a new fork. It was a spectacular offer that I felt was very generous on their part. I had to decline however, since it was a somewhat inconvenient solution to my specific problem. However, we are still in discussions and they still may be able to help me out.

    I can say that I am pleased with the outcome of this ordeal. Even though I still may end up buying new parts myself, I feel they've done all they can in such a bizzare situation. Like I said from the start, I just wanted to at least talk to them about it and ask for some help. I've definitely received that and more.

    I'm sorry if this post has caused people to feel negatively towards Ellsworth. I can say I still love my bike, I'm still excited to ride this season, and I'm definately excited for my new rear shock (I'll be posting that one later). When the time comes to purchase a new frame, Ells is definately still on the list.

    Happy trails

  2. #2
    So is your face
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    How come you turned down the new frame? That seems like a pretty sweet deal to me. Although, I can understand you not wanting to pay for a new fork, since it was damaged by no fault of your own, even if it is at a discount.
    IT'S NOT THE FALL THAT HURTS. IT'S WHEN YOU HIT THE GROUND.

  3. #3
    The Ancient One
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    That seems like a fair enough offer but somewhat strange. You don't need a new frame, do you? I would think the frame must be worth enough to them that they could just give you the fork without any loss on their part.

    Did you get a Double Barrel?
    "Don't criticize what you can't understand."

  4. #4
    The Dude Abides
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    I turned down the frame and fork because it would cost me over 3 times as much for that option as it would to just replace the only failed part, the fork's upper assembly. Sure, the fork would be brand new (with the new Talas 3-click travel adjust, tasty) and the frame would be new, but it sounded like I would have to wait quite a while to get one of the new Moment's, and the Talas 36 are unavailable (to Ells) for 2 months. If I could get all the brand new stuff right away, I probably would have taken it. But my frame is only a year old and in great shape. And since my fork is going to be pulled apart, it can be serviced easily and will feel as good as new.

    I was also a bit confused by the offer, thinking this would cost them much more than just replacing the part I need replaced. But Ellsworth is not a bike shop, it is not their nature to buy and resell (or replace) components. My only explaination is that it is easier for them (from an accounting standpoint) to give one of their own products away than it is to buy a product and give it away. Plus, it was their way of offering above and beyond. Unfortunately, it wasn't an offer that made sense for me.

    Yes Steve, I have a Double Barrel coming. Either the end of this week or early next week. Oh boy oh boy oh boy!

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the update Dude. As long as you are happy, that's what counts.

    I'm still upset at how long it's been taking for this whole process to work out, I think you've been without a ride for close to 1.5 months? That's just not cool, as an original Ellsworth owner (I'm presuming), they should have taken care of you sooner IMO. I'd probably go with the same decision you did since the new frame and fork would take another 2 months.

  6. #6
    Rolling
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    Quote Originally Posted by UP Dude
    I turned down the frame and fork because it would cost me over 3 times as much for that option as it would to just replace the only failed part, the fork's upper assembly. Sure, the fork would be brand new (with the new Talas 3-click travel adjust, tasty) and the frame would be new, but it sounded like I would have to wait quite a while to get one of the new Moment's, and the Talas 36 are unavailable (to Ells) for 2 months. If I could get all the brand new stuff right away, I probably would have taken it. But my frame is only a year old and in great shape. And since my fork is going to be pulled apart, it can be serviced easily and will feel as good as new.

    I was also a bit confused by the offer, thinking this would cost them much more than just replacing the part I need replaced. But Ellsworth is not a bike shop, it is not their nature to buy and resell (or replace) components. My only explaination is that it is easier for them (from an accounting standpoint) to give one of their own products away than it is to buy a product and give it away. Plus, it was their way of offering above and beyond. Unfortunately, it wasn't an offer that made sense for me.

    Yes Steve, I have a Double Barrel coming. Either the end of this week or early next week. Oh boy oh boy oh boy!
    Personally, I think they should have made the offer they did but also an alternative offer of a check cut for replacing the steerer after you sent them the receipts for the cost.

    I'm sure it's about accounting on their part, but don't you think it should not just be about them? This solution comes from the theory, we will help fix your problem and even make it better, but show us your seriousness by putting some in the pot!

    Sorry Updude, but this solution kinda leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Given the bad reputation Ells has on this board, they should be bending over backwards on this.

    So in the end you are out cash to fix the problem that they created and are happy about it! That is crazy!

    IMO this was a poker hand, they bluffed and you folded the winning hand.

  7. #7
    SMR
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    I would have taken them up, a new frame and fork for a couple hundred sounds good to me. And not having to worry about any more problems with the old frame, hopefully you got it fully cleaned out. how much time is left on the warranty if something else goes wrong?

  8. #8
    So is your face
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    I see your point about the costs. That does suck. But, since they obviously aren't going to shell out for the steerer tube at this point, maybe there's a third option. You could go ahead and pay to get a new steerer pressed in, but take them up on their offer of a new frame. I know it sucks that you have to pay whatever that costs, but you should at least get something for your troubles. Just keep your frame til the new ones come out and swap with Ellsworth at that point. That way you get a shiny new Moment to match your shiny new Double Barrel.
    IT'S NOT THE FALL THAT HURTS. IT'S WHEN YOU HIT THE GROUND.

  9. #9
    The Dude Abides
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    Sorry Updude, but this solution kinda leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Given the bad reputation Ells has on this board, they should be bending over backwards on this.

    So in the end you are out cash to fix the problem that they created and are happy about it! That is crazy!

    IMO this was a poker hand, they bluffed and you folded the winning hand.

    I think its going to take far more typing to explain myself than I wish to go through. There are a lot of variables here, more than just who has more aces. I guess the message I'm trying to convey is that while I could get stuck with the bill, they did make an honest effort to help me. If it wasn't good enough, thats okay.

    I used to think of myself as a diehard, Ellsworth rider for life. I love the ride of their bikes. But if their efforts aren't good enough, then maybe I'm not an Ellsworth rider for life. Does this mean I should hate and resent them? Thats not the Dude's style. Should I publish public slander about them afterwards? Nah, it's not respectable or worth my time and effort. On the other side, will I be so apt to promote and support them? Probably not. I suppose I could b!tch and moan to them until I get what I want, but that isn't respectable either. Plus, then I'm riding a bike from a group of people who don't like me. There is something unsettling about that.

    So they couldn't come through, I can live with that. Happy isn't the right word though, not yet. I will happily ride my current bike for several more years because it is a sweet ride. And I will happily ride a new, non-Ells bike if and when the time comes. The point is not to get all pissy when something doesn't go your way. Someday, I'll have my pick of any rug in Mr.Lebowski's house. Then I'll make myself a caucasion, hit the lanes, and be happy.

    The Dude Abides

  10. #10
    The Dude Abides
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    Quote Originally Posted by celluloid hero
    I see your point about the costs. That does suck. But, since they obviously aren't going to shell out for the steerer tube at this point, maybe there's a third option.

    They still might pay for the steerer. We have yet to work that one out.

    But you might be on to something with the new frame. Just keep riding my rig until the full swap can be made. Hmmm. Is it worth the risk of riding on the fork though?

  11. #11
    Rolling
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    Quote Originally Posted by UP Dude
    I think its going to take far more typing to explain myself than I wish to go through. There are a lot of variables here, more than just who has more aces. I guess the message I'm trying to convey is that while I could get stuck with the bill, they did make an honest effort to help me. If it wasn't good enough, thats okay.
    Fair enough. I don't know what your feelings or regrets are in sharing this experience, but I am glad you did. I do realize there are aspects that we don't know and two sides to a story....

    However, it troubles me that you had a problem and posted optimistically, then wound up with a weird compromize while those folks who bought a Turner Highline got a reply from Dave Turner about defective chainstays, saying to contact him about replacing the stay, no questions asked. He busted his a$s to replace those stays, regardless if there was a problem with any particular one.

    This is in the last three months, not back in 2002!

    It's no wonder Turner owners admire and worship him.

  12. #12
    Leash Law Enforcer
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    I'm sure their offer does have something to do with accounting. It makes sense really . . . they can warranty their products but not other manufacturers products regardless of whether or not their product caused the damage. But, here is what I don't understand - could you only get the new frame with the new fork? Did they not offer you the new frame regardless of what you chose to do about the fork? That would have been a killer deal and it wouldn't have cost you anything. They could have asked for your current frame in return so it wouldn't have been a total windfall. I'm really surprised that the frame had to come with a new fork. Did you ask them about this possibility?

    Edit: I see that Celluloid Hero asked the same question above.
    "I didn't even use crutches when I broke my leg!" - Aquaholic

  13. #13
    Rolling
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinch
    I'm sure their offer does have something to do with accounting. It makes sense really . . . they can warranty their products but not other manufacturers products regardless of whether or not their product caused the damage. But, here is what I don't understand - could you only get the new frame with the new fork? Did they not offer you the new frame regardless of what you chose to do about the fork? That would have been a killer deal and it wouldn't have cost you anything. They could have asked for your current frame in return so it wouldn't have been a total windfall. I'm really surprised that the frame had to come with a new fork. Did you ask them about this possibility?

    Edit: I see that Celluloid Hero asked the same question above.
    But that they can't warranty someone elses product doesn't matter. If UpDude replaced the steerer, and they compensated him, it's all the same. I don't see how there is a warranty in play here. All they are doing is compensating for his loss...if that requires a new fork so be it.

    They are willing to give him a reduced cost fork, at the extreme, they could give him a FREE fork.

    And where is the headset in this whole thing? I thought it was the headset and fork that was the issue, not the frame--I saw the pix, the frame was fine!

    If it's an accounting thing, it's due to a tax advantage and to benefit the company.

    PS: BTW, I feel when I had my chainstay issue, I got amazing service....I not only got a new stay that worked, I got a new asym stay and then later got to trade it in for the bigger tire clearance stay that makes me happy on my Id.

    That is what frustrates me about this. I feel that they went out of my way to help me and was a really happy person...but when i read this case, I feel that things have either went backwards or I was a fluke...

    Maybe the whole story is missing...
    Last edited by lidarman; 03-14-2007 at 09:38 PM.

  14. #14
    Leash Law Enforcer
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    But that they can't warranty someone elses product doesn't matter. If UpDude replaced the steerer, and they compensated him, it's all the same. I don't see how there is a warranty in play here. All they are doing is compensating for his loss...if that requires a new fork so be it.

    They are willing to give him a reduced cost fork, at the extreme, they could give him a FREE fork.

    And where is the headset in this whole thing? I thought it was the headset and fork that was the issue, not the frame--I saw the pix, the frame was fine!

    If it's an accounting thing, it's due to a tax advantage and to benefit the company.
    I probably didn't make my point clear enough . . . I was assuming that they offered the new frame and not a new fork because of an accounting issue, which, as you pointed out, is likely tied to a tax benefit. It wouldn't surprise me if congress would allow for a tax benefit for warranting your own product but not the product of another company. Either a frame or a fork will cost Ells money, but there may not be an associated tax benefit with the fork. I admit this is speculation/conjecture on my part (are there any accountants out there?). But, there has to be a logical reason why they would offer him a free frame but not a free fork.

    I do agree with you, making him whole, whether that be a free fork, headset or simply covering the cost of a new upper assembly would be the way to go here.
    "I didn't even use crutches when I broke my leg!" - Aquaholic

  15. #15
    So is your face
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    No risk Up Dude, that is if you pay for the steerer yourself. Just go ahead and replace that now, and maybe foam the tubes in your moment so the damage doesn't occur to the new steerer. Then wait the two months, and trade frames with Ellsworth. End of story. Not an entirely happy ending, but an acceptable one.
    IT'S NOT THE FALL THAT HURTS. IT'S WHEN YOU HIT THE GROUND.

  16. #16
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    Ain't that the truth (No pun intended)....

    ...Ellsworth made him an offer that fit with their business model -- NOT THEIR CUSTOMER. UP Dude's been used and abused.

    I've always found it sad that anyone on MTBR could buy from Ellsworth after so many of their brethren have been screwed by Tony. But it's even worse when those who are getting screwed seem happy about it.

    Maybe Tony's next bike should be called the "Flagellator"


    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    Personally, I think they should have made the offer they did but also an alternative offer of a check cut for replacing the steerer after you sent them the receipts for the cost.

    I'm sure it's about accounting on their part, but don't you think it should not just be about them? This solution comes from the theory, we will help fix your problem and even make it better, but show us your seriousness by putting some in the pot!

    Sorry Updude, but this solution kinda leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Given the bad reputation Ells has on this board, they should be bending over backwards on this.

    So in the end you are out cash to fix the problem that they created and are happy about it! That is crazy!

    IMO this was a poker hand, they bluffed and you folded the winning hand.
    Ask me about my translucent green clearcoat!

  17. #17
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    Thanks for the update Up Dude. My LBS cleaned out my Moment that was from the problem batch. Had no problems since. Gave me an opportunity to strip down the bike for an overhaul anyway.
    "[SIZE="3"][SIZE="2"]but I do not see anything in the world of suspension methods that is superior to the 4 Bar.

    Dave Turner[/SIZE][/SIZE]

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