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  1. #1
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    Push Industries vs Ellsworth tuning for an Epi

    I have an '07 Epi with the Float R which of course has the "Ellsworth" tuning. How much better/worse and what are the differences of sending it to get it "Pushed" since it is already tuned for the Epi?

  2. #2
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    Wow, news to me that Ells tunes shocks.

    In the past Ells tuning was simply specifying a shock for a bike, ICT didn't need platform and such...but who knows.

    Push actually does rigorous measurements on shocks and puts very specifically engineered parts in them during upgrades. I can't believe Ells does that...if so, I think it would be bragged about--It adds cost over the basic shock price.

    Maybe you should contact Darren at Push. He is an nice smart guy. And to top it off, an honest guy about it. Send him an email.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    Wow, news to me that Ells tunes shocks.

    In the past Ells tuning was simply specifying a shock for a bike, ICT didn't need platform and such...but who knows.

    Push actually does rigorous measurements on shocks and puts very specifically engineered parts in them during upgrades. I can't believe Ells does that...if so, I think it would be bragged about--It adds cost over the basic shock price.

    Maybe you should contact Darren at Push. He is an nice smart guy. And to top it off, an honest guy about it. Send him an email.
    Ellsworth doesn't tune the FloatR for Ellsworth bikes, Fox does. The attached pics are from the FloatR on my 2005 Truth. I don't know what Fox does "special" for Ellsworth/ICT.
    For the RP23 shock, they don't do that since it has ProPedal - meaning you can set it to 1,2,or 3. Magic Numbers! Actually Fox will tell you in their manuals what these settings mean, but as to which one is the optimal for use with ICT, who knows. Try getting an answer from Ellsworth
    Currently, I am using setting "1" with my Epi in accordance with the Fox recommendations according to my weight and riding style. I'm not sure ProPedal does much when you have ICT but I like playing with the pretty blue lever and dial
    Sorry about the bad pics. One says "Especially Tuned for ICT" and the other says "Especially Tuned for Ellsworth". Pay no attention to all that dust that I should wipe off with a towel! Dirty Boy!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #4
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    Even the Fox RP23 shocks come with a factory tune. The shocks that come with Ellsworth frames are factory tuned to the lowest setting. Aftermarket RP23's come usually with the middle factory tune. I made the mistake of buying an aftermarket RP23 without specifying I needed the lowest factory tune. Needless to say, the Epi rode very stiff - in all 3 propedal settings. I sent the shock back to Fox and the re-tuned it for a nominal fee to the lowest setting. Now my Epi rides like it was supposed to. So, when Ellsworth states the shocks are custom tuned for ICT - they are referring to the lowest level of factory tune. You can see from the 3 bars on the sticker what level of factory tune the shock has.
    Kokopelli Racing

    "Curb drops to flat, or curb drops to transition? There's a BIG difference there." Qfactor03

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by yangpei
    Even the Fox RP23 shocks come with a factory tune. The shocks that come with Ellsworth frames are factory tuned to the lowest setting. Aftermarket RP23's come usually with the middle factory tune. I made the mistake of buying an aftermarket RP23 without specifying I needed the lowest factory tune. Needless to say, the Epi rode very stiff - in all 3 propedal settings. I sent the shock back to Fox and the re-tuned it for a nominal fee to the lowest setting. Now my Epi rides like it was supposed to. So, when Ellsworth states the shocks are custom tuned for ICT - they are referring to the lowest level of factory tune. You can see from the 3 bars on the sticker what level of factory tune the shock has.
    Yangpei: Super sharp eye! You are right, at the bottom of the RP23 body there is a little label that gives the "tune" setting using 3 bands (low, med, high according to the bar length). However, on my RP23 there are two labels - on the left side it says "rebound tune" and the label is in red. On the right side it says "compression tune" and the label is in blue. I bought, at an LBS, my frame with the RP23 already installed. For me, the rebound (red) tune is the lowest setting BUT the compression (blue) tune is the highest setting. Do you have both tune settings on your RP23?
    Also, what ProPedal setting do you use and why?

  6. #6
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    I just took a look at my RP23 to check. I was referring to the compression tune (blue) bars. My original Float R that came with the Epi was at the lowest setting. My aftermarket RP23 was in the middle setting (but it has now be re-tuned by Fox and has a new sticker).

    Currently, my RP23 sticker reads as follows:

    My rebound tune (red) is the middle setting (middle bar)

    My compression tune (blue) is the lowest setting (lowest bar)

    I think I usually ride in the #2 (medium) propedal setting.
    Kokopelli Racing

    "Curb drops to flat, or curb drops to transition? There's a BIG difference there." Qfactor03

  7. #7
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    ProPedal

    In regards to the ProPedal setting, I really don't think you need propedal with the ICT. My Epi came with a Float R and it rode amazingly well. I only upgraded to the RP23 because I thought it would be better. Honestly, I think the bike rode as well with the Float R. It just didn't have the pretty blue lever that I never pay attention to anyways.
    Kokopelli Racing

    "Curb drops to flat, or curb drops to transition? There's a BIG difference there." Qfactor03

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by yangpei
    Currently, my RP23 sticker reads as follows:

    My rebound tune (red) is the middle setting (middle bar)

    My compression tune (blue) is the lowest setting (lowest bar)

    I think I usually ride in the #2 (medium) propedal setting.
    My rebound tune (red) is in the low setting (smallest bar)
    My compression tune (blue) is in the highest setting (largest bar)
    I started with #2 propedal setting but went to #1 based on the Fox manual info.
    I weigh 68 Kg.
    I bought my medium Epi frame with RP23 installed at BeyondBikes. Its hard to imagine that they installed the shock, I have to think it came from Ellsworth that way.
    I re-read the Fox manual, none of this topic is mentioned.
    I wonder how to know what it means and what it should be?

  9. #9
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    Not meaning to hijack the thread but has anyone put a Rockshox Monarch 4.2 on an Epiphany?

    I 'm looking at going down that line and am chasing some info on the upgrade- cheers.

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    Thanks for the info guys! I realize now that I didn't make it clear. I didn't mean that Ellsworth did the tuning, but was talking about the "Exclusively tuned for Ellsworth" and wondered exactly what that meant.
    OldHorse, are you in San Diego as I also purchased mine from BeyondBikes? Did you change to the updated AL rocker through them?
    Maybe Monday I will give Push a call just to get their input as I want to talk to them about my front fork anyway.

  11. #11
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    Ellsworth tuning

    Back a couple of years ago the Ellsworth tuning by FOX was more critical than it is these days seeing how pretty much all of the OEM's are able to choose between the 3 different level of Propedal spec.

    Although a great starting point, we at PUSH have the advantage of having more information than the bike companies because we're dealing with the end user. Before building your shock, we know how much you weigh, what frame it's going on, what your riding style is, and any special requests. Theses parameters are something that all product managers along with FOX must generalize when building an OEM unit.

    So, if you have a 120lb XC racer using an Epiphany for endurance racing with efficiency being the goal, and a 190lb weekend warrior using an Epiphany as a means of hooking up with a few friends for beer and burritos, they both get what they're looking for with our tuning package.

    It's no fault of Ellsworth or FOX because they don't know who is buying the bike during the design and testing process. We're just fortunate in the fact that we get to see and analyze the frame design, do our own testing, and then come up with tuning configurations that best compliment different rider profiles.

    Darren

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND
    Back a couple of years ago the Ellsworth tuning by FOX was more critical than it is these days seeing how pretty much all of the OEM's are able to choose between the 3 different level of Propedal spec.

    Although a great starting point, we at PUSH have the advantage of having more information than the bike companies because we're dealing with the end user. Before building your shock, we know how much you weigh, what frame it's going on, what your riding style is, and any special requests. Theses parameters are something that all product managers along with FOX must generalize when building an OEM unit.

    So, if you have a 120lb XC racer using an Epiphany for endurance racing with efficiency being the goal, and a 190lb weekend warrior using an Epiphany as a means of hooking up with a few friends for beer and burritos, they both get what they're looking for with our tuning package.

    It's no fault of Ellsworth or FOX because they don't know who is buying the bike during the design and testing process. We're just fortunate in the fact that we get to see and analyze the frame design, do our own testing, and then come up with tuning configurations that best compliment different rider profiles.

    Darren
    Darren:

    Just the fact that you actually read these forum entries and share with us is enough for me to seriously consider using your services I've read about "pushing" before but just kind of moved on. When I get the opportunity in the future I will have you tune my shocks. Kudos to you for staying in touch with real riders

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lushman
    Thanks for the info guys! I realize now that I didn't make it clear. I didn't mean that Ellsworth did the tuning, but was talking about the "Exclusively tuned for Ellsworth" and wondered exactly what that meant.
    OldHorse, are you in San Diego as I also purchased mine from BeyondBikes? Did you change to the updated AL rocker through them?
    Maybe Monday I will give Push a call just to get their input as I want to talk to them about my front fork anyway.
    Well, I used to live in SD for a long time (25 years). And, I get back there on occasion and when I do I make it a point to buy things (like Ellsworth frames) I can't get here.
    Now I hang my hat in this place:
    Beijing Ride Report - Jan 16, 2008
    Just about as dry as SD, but quite a bit colder in the winter
    Edit: Oops, didn't answer your question - no I kept the Mg rocker. I'll wait and see how it goes. I only weigh 150 lbs and don't have a lot of big drops in my trails.

  14. #14
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    Posting

    Just the fact that you actually read these forum entries and share with us is enough for me to seriously consider using your services I've read about "pushing" before but just kind of moved on. When I get the opportunity in the future I will have you tune my shocks. Kudos to you for staying in touch with real riders
    Thanks, we've found that staying in touch on the message boards provides extremely valuable information about what riders do and don't like about certain applications. We're in the business of getting you what you want, not creating a product/service and trying to convince you that it's what you want.

    Darren

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