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  1. #1
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    Pathetically Stupid, but...

    To make a long story short, the retaining bolt that connects the chainstay (drive side) of my Epi to the rocker arm (right in front of the DR hanger) came out. I do make it a habit of checking components on the frame to make sure everything is snug and operating before I ride. But, I obviously missed this.
    Should this really happen? This was a factory installed fastener so shouldn't these be torqued on rather tight? I checked the other side as well as the two on my Truth and they are tight. I've had the Epi less than 6 months but I have had the Truth for over 3 years.
    It happened on a ride and I did not notice the problem until the bolt was lost. I unbolted the one from the Truth and it fits the Epi as well. At first, I was afraid that the threads might have been stripped or damaged speculating that the bolt had been forced out somehow but there is no sign of any damage.
    It seems hard to believe that I did not notice this bolt being loose. Is it possible that it cracked from head to bottom (long way) and that it simply then fell out? There were no remnants of it at all in the threads.
    Where do I find a replacement? I looked around a bit but could not find anyone that sells this bolt. Is this a standard part or something specific to Ellsworth?
    Everthing is a learning experience

  2. #2
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    Yes, Ells will sell the Epi bolt kit. My guess is [and believe me, its just a guess] that Locktite is applied to those bolts to keep them in, and for whatever reason, there was not enough or it failed or one hundred other possibilities.

    Wow are you still in Beijing?? Shipping a $2 bolt to you might get a bit expensive. Hmmmmm. Check back here in 14 hrs and I might have a solution.
    Its not the brand of the wand that matters, but the skill of the magician. (Make no mistake tho, your brand does suck butt.)

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Rider x
    Yes, Ells will sell the Epi bolt kit. My guess is [and believe me, its just a guess] that Locktite is applied to those bolts to keep them in, and for whatever reason, there was not enough or it failed or one hundred other possibilities.

    Wow are you still in Beijing?? Shipping a $2 bolt to you might get a bit expensive. Hmmmmm. Check back here in 14 hrs and I might have a solution.
    RRx:
    A million thanks for your reply and also for being here to help with Ellsworth owner issues. This forum has lots and lots of diehard experienced Ellsworth riders - its a treasure trove of information for your employer
    Yes, I am still in Beijing. In fact, I am right now putting on my gear and getting ready to ride out the door. Its a beautiful sunny day and the wild peach trees are in full bloom so I will post some pics later
    I did consider a lack of Loctite might have been a root cause, when I pulled the same bolt from the Truth I could see it had been used. I assume I can use the Truth bolt for now since it fits; I'll check it carefully to make sure it doesn't loosen up.
    I hear you on the shipping cost - I bought my Epi frame at Beyond and hauled it back from the US in my checked luggage. No Ellsworth dealer, parts or service here
    Well, if you have some further info, please let me know. Especially as to how and where to purchase the replacement bolt. I'll consider the shipping issue once I know that information.

  4. #4
    zeb
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    I had the same bolt coming out on my ID,when I bought it.Luckily i did not lose it,turned out that there was not blue loctite at all.I added some and no more problems ever since.

  5. #5
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    I replaced the bolts of my truth after they became rounded ( kinda soft ) , with generic stainless steel alllen head bolts . I assure you there is no change in performance using unofficial generic bolts .

    I am assuming you are an expat in China , and probably have some local staff working for you . Why dont you unscrew the other side's bolt and give it to one of your employees to look for a replacement/s in the bolt and nut/ hardware stores . The bolt is fairly common with regards to size and thread , although there may be difficulty in finding a exact match with regards to the style of the bolt head ( but you can buy 4 replacements to make em all match) .


  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaydg
    I replaced the bolts of my truth after they became rounded ( kinda soft ) , with generic stainless steel alllen head bolts . I assure you there is no change in performance using unofficial generic bolts .

    I am assuming you are an expat in China , and probably have some local staff working for you . Why dont you unscrew the other side's bolt and give it to one of your employees to look for a replacement/s in the bolt and nut/ hardware stores . The bolt is fairly common with regards to size and thread , although there may be difficulty in finding a exact match with regards to the style of the bolt head ( but you can buy 4 replacements to make em all match) .

    Jaydg: Thanks for the advice, its good to hear that the generics work ok. I do have an LBS here, its just that their diligence is a little sketchy sometimes. So, I always ask here first, then decide what to do with them.
    On the ride today, I recalled something - several months ago on one of my checkout rides I was going downhill and heard a "ting ting ting". I was sure it was the sound of metal hitting my rear spokes. I stopped right away and I checked everywhere - no sign of anything missing from the bike and could not find any parts on the ground. One of the other riders said it was probably stones kicked up and making the noise, but I thought "no way". I know the sound of metal on metal.
    I think I fractured and sheared a large section of the bolt thread and it was just hanging by but a short section. After a while it worked the last little part free and the head popped loose. Only the rocker arm hole is threaded, the chainstay hole is just a guide, so it could have disguised the problem. I feel if it really came unscrewed I would have noticed either the head sticking out or a significant gap between the stay and the arm. Now I know to check to make sure the bolt is fully extended and peeking out the interior side of the arm bolt hole.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeb
    I had the same bolt coming out on my ID,when I bought it.Luckily i did not lose it,turned out that there was not blue loctite at all.I added some and no more problems ever since.
    I had that bolt also work loose over and over on my 2005 Moment until I applied Loctite. It appeared that it never had any applied from the factory. The non-drive side was fine.

  8. #8
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    OldHorse - just to be clear I think you meant the bolt that connects the Shockstay to the Rocker Arm. There are 2 of those as well as 2 bolts that connect the Chainstay to the Shockstay [at the Drop outs]. All 4 of these bolts are the same spec: alum 8x20mm. FYI all Ells frames use these same bolt specs.

    Hopefully somebody over there can help find you some. If you have trouble, please let me know.
    Its not the brand of the wand that matters, but the skill of the magician. (Make no mistake tho, your brand does suck butt.)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Rider x
    OldHorse - just to be clear I think you meant the bolt that connects the Shockstay to the Rocker Arm. There are 2 of those as well as 2 bolts that connect the Chainstay to the Shockstay [at the Drop outs]. All 4 of these bolts are the same spec: alum 8x20mm. FYI all Ells frames use these same bolt specs.

    Hopefully somebody over there can help find you some. If you have trouble, please let me know.
    It was the bolt that goes through the chainstay on the drive side immediately in front of the rear DR hanger. Next to the rear wheel dropout, yes. I guess I was not correct when I referred to the rocker arm. I see the two bolts that attach the rocker and they do look the same.
    Thanks for the precise measurement and other information. Now I can make sure the LBS handles it the way I want.

  10. #10
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    I work for a company that manufactures tons of outdoor sporting equipment and ensuring that Loctite was on bolts was a much bigger problem than most would think. It's too easy for a human to forget once in a while. The solution was to buy bolts with Loctite preapplied by a machine. I can get the specs of the best formula and company we found after testing if Ellsworth wants it. All someone there needs to do is PM me.

    BTW - we replaced on-the-line use of Loctite 243, which is the most common form for this use, and most people know it as blue Loctite.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatfreeheeler
    I work for a company that manufactures tons of outdoor sporting equipment and ensuring that Loctite was on bolts was a much bigger problem than most would think. It's too easy for a human to forget once in a while. The solution was to buy bolts with Loctite preapplied by a machine. I can get the specs of the best formula and company we found after testing if Ellsworth wants it. All someone there needs to do is PM me.

    BTW - we replaced on-the-line use of Loctite 243, which is the most common form for this use, and most people know it as blue Loctite.

    cheers for the info
    "[SIZE="3"][SIZE="2"]but I do not see anything in the world of suspension methods that is superior to the 4 Bar.

    Dave Turner[/SIZE][/SIZE]

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