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  1. #1
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    Old Horse Epi Build - Finally!

    Finally got around to posting info on my new Epi. Been real busy with end of the year stuff, but main reason is I was waiting for the last two components - Thomson Masterpiece seat post and CrankBrothers Eggbeaters 4Ti pedals. Here's two shots of the bike on one my favorite trails taken Jan 2, 2008. Merry New Year! Also, an eye chart of the components and their weights. In most cases the weights are actuals, maybe some small item weights are from WeightWeenies.com. Anyway, its just under 12Kg total - about the same weight as my Truth!
    Couple notes - Dual Panaracers just for bling effect - need a wider tire on the front to corner better in loose rock downhill. Going to try a Kenda BlueGroove 2.35. Probably put the Panies on the Truth and use the IRC TrailBear from the Truth on the rear of the Epi. Also, the component chart is wrong about the saddle - I'm still using my old WTB saddle and the Velo is on the Truth. I'm still fiddling with this sort of stuff between the Epi and the Truth. I'll try to post some of my impressions comparing the two...
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
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    Nice Bike! The blue panaracers look sweet with the frame.

  3. #3
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    Epi vs. Truth

    Getting the Epi gives me a chance to first-hand compare it with the Truth. I've been riding both of them on alternate rides on same trails to get the feeling. Some notes:
    First, the Epi is just an incredible machine. The first time I rode it downhill I almost died from the pleasure. Trail sections I cannot ride on the Truth were easily handled by the Epiphany. In fact, proving to myself those sections could be cleared, it informed and inspired me to ride through them on the Truth. But, the Truth is not the Epi and I paid the price for that in a few spots. Still, riding the Epi has improved my downhill handling on the Truth. (Disclaimer - the Truth is built with Shimano V brakes so this certainly affects downhill ride abilities)
    The Epi build and the Truth build weigh about the same. The Epi climbs confidently and well, but the Truth is still a race-busting speed demon! On fire roads it easily outclimbs the Epi. Since they are the same weight, I am a bit unsure of exactly the reason for this. It could be I am getting just a little less pedaling efficiency out of the 140mm rear RP23 shock compared to the 100 mm R3. Or, it could be the geometry.
    I think geometry is the main differentiation between the Truth and Epi. With the Epi you feel low and set-back; in fact the brake levers can't contact the top tube. This is part of what makes it feel so confident in the sketchy downhill - I actually believe an End-O is almost impossible. With the Truth you are more up-front and high. I think this gives me a more powerful pedaling position. After riding the Epi a lot I adjusted the Truth seat position to give myself a little more of the set-back effect.
    I also observed that I should adjust my front shock settings on the Truth some. When the Epi hits an obstacle the front shock (F140 Float32 RLC) absorbs the impact perfectly and so your steering line is not thrown off. I observed on my Truth that the front shock (F100 RLT) the impact response was not "linear". That is, the first 25 mm or so of compression from impact was much smoother than the last bit of compression. This caused a kind of bounce-back from the front wheel and without careful steering attention could cause the line to waver slightly. To compensate for this I set the rebound a bit softer and it seemed to help some.
    The steering on the Epi in tight downhill turns is better, IMO. I think this may be due to the set-back effect causing less weight on the bars making them more fluid in turning.
    Anyway, I love both bikes! I think I may swap out the V brakes for hydraulic disc brakes.

  4. #4
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    The climbing difference might be you.
    Your muscles are conditioned for the truth. Give the epi some time and I'll bet the climbing will be very close. I have several bikes (road, mt, and cross) and the legs feel sluggish on the first few rides after being away from any one bike. I think you just need to develop the muscle memory.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIMBOLAYA
    The climbing difference might be you.
    Your muscles are conditioned for the truth. Give the epi some time and I'll bet the climbing will be very close. I have several bikes (road, mt, and cross) and the legs feel sluggish on the first few rides after being away from any one bike. I think you just need to develop the muscle memory.
    You could be right. That means I just need to ride more
    This is also why I like to move my seat height around a bit - different heights give different leverage affecting the muscles differently, IMO.
    I might have too much sag in my rear shock on the Epi. Might have to stiffen it up just a bit.
    BTW, I've noticed that ProPedal lockout seems to make no difference at all with ICT.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHorse
    BTW, I've noticed that ProPedal lockout seems to make no difference at all with ICT.
    I ride a truth. My rear shock is a float R with no lockout. As long as I'm seated, I don't need a lockout. The only bob I get is when I'm standing and my shifting weight makes it bob. Fully active should conform to the surface better. It's a really nice system. I sure wouldn't mind trying a high end DW-Link some time. -Jim

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHorse
    You could be right. That means I just need to ride more
    This is also why I like to move my seat height around a bit - different heights give different leverage affecting the muscles differently, IMO.
    I might have too much sag in my rear shock on the Epi. Might have to stiffen it up just a bit.
    BTW, I've noticed that ProPedal lockout seems to make no difference at all with ICT.
    I took some sag out of the rear shock. I weigh about 150 lbs (68 kg). I had the rear shock at 120 psi, I pumped it up to 150 psi. This seemed to make a difference - climbing was well improved. But, maybe its just a little too firm for me now on the downhill, I think I will dial it back a little bit and test again.
    I also started fiddling with the ProPedal setting positions (1,2,3). I found that maybe position #1 with Propedal enabled works better for me on climbing. But, this is very subtle due to ICT and maybe its just my imagination. Need to get all the other major factors dialed-in first then I can check this more carefully.
    Also, discovered that my front wheel had several loose spokes. This seemed to cause some of my tight cornering instability. Tightened them up and that issue is greatly improved.
    More adjusting and riding needed to get everything just right

  8. #8
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    That bike looks great!! It is amazing the different ways the Nebula Blue comes out when they apply the anodizing. I will agree that more time on the bike will make your muscles better on that particular bike. One thing to note is when my disc brakes get a bit misaligned, the difference in wheel drag is pretty noticable. When they are perfectly aligned, the bike just fiies!!. Of course, with V-Brakes you don't even worry about it so your Truth is a ROCKET!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHorse
    Getting the Epi gives me a chance to first-hand compare it with the Truth. I've been riding both of them on alternate rides on same trails to get the feeling. Some notes:
    First, the Epi is just an incredible machine. The first time I rode it downhill I almost died from the pleasure. Trail sections I cannot ride on the Truth were easily handled by the Epiphany. In fact, proving to myself those sections could be cleared, it informed and inspired me to ride through them on the Truth. But, the Truth is not the Epi and I paid the price for that in a few spots. Still, riding the Epi has improved my downhill handling on the Truth. (Disclaimer - the Truth is built with Shimano V brakes so this certainly affects downhill ride abilities)
    The Epi build and the Truth build weigh about the same. The Epi climbs confidently and well, but the Truth is still a race-busting speed demon! On fire roads it easily outclimbs the Epi. Since they are the same weight, I am a bit unsure of exactly the reason for this. It could be I am getting just a little less pedaling efficiency out of the 140mm rear RP23 shock compared to the 100 mm R3. Or, it could be the geometry.
    I think geometry is the main differentiation between the Truth and Epi. With the Epi you feel low and set-back; in fact the brake levers can't contact the top tube. This is part of what makes it feel so confident in the sketchy downhill - I actually believe an End-O is almost impossible. With the Truth you are more up-front and high. I think this gives me a more powerful pedaling position. After riding the Epi a lot I adjusted the Truth seat position to give myself a little more of the set-back effect.
    I also observed that I should adjust my front shock settings on the Truth some. When the Epi hits an obstacle the front shock (F140 Float32 RLC) absorbs the impact perfectly and so your steering line is not thrown off. I observed on my Truth that the front shock (F100 RLT) the impact response was not "linear". That is, the first 25 mm or so of compression from impact was much smoother than the last bit of compression. This caused a kind of bounce-back from the front wheel and without careful steering attention could cause the line to waver slightly. To compensate for this I set the rebound a bit softer and it seemed to help some.
    The steering on the Epi in tight downhill turns is better, IMO. I think this may be due to the set-back effect causing less weight on the bars making them more fluid in turning.
    Anyway, I love both bikes! I think I may swap out the V brakes for hydraulic disc brakes.
    thank you to take care of me
    the reason Ihave chosen a Truth is because I wanted a 100mm in spite of my nomad...
    I like the Epi too
    epi is 140mm, right ?

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