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  1. #1
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    Non Warranty Frame Replacement Specialized Vs Ellsworth

    I thought the EW board people would find this interesting.
    I looking at building up a used 2002 Enduro frame for the wife, so I went looking for info on the Specialized site... found that the 2002 Enduro seems to not only have a RECALL but a breakage rate that is equal to or worse than the early Truths.

    Here's what I posted after reading a thread on the issue.
    __________________________________________________ ________
    I'm looking at buying a used 2002 Enduro frame to build up as a spare bike for the wife.

    I called Specialized and got someone who did not sound all that sure of himself but he said NO the Recall WOULD NOT apply to a second owner nor would they offer ANY KIND of a break on a replacement frame if the second owner's frame broke and they wanted to buy a new one.
    I also called my local SPEALIZED shop and got the same answers.

    Based on my past experience with Ellsworth Truths ( three different broken experiences) and many more posts on the EW board) I was looking for some kind of discount deal like what EW has done for 2ed owner Truths.

    It seems I'll be building another Giant AC instead of the Enduro.
    The AC's seem to have a much better survival rate than 2002 Enduros.

    __________________________________________________ ________

    Kind of disapointing....

  2. #2
    not so super...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redriderpro
    I thought the EW board people would find this interesting.
    I looking at building up a used 2002 Enduro frame for the wife, so I went looking for info on the Specialized site... found that the 2002 Enduro seems to not only have a RECALL but a breakage rate that is equal to or worse than the early Truths.

    Here's what I posted after reading a thread on the issue.
    __________________________________________________ ________
    I'm looking at buying a used 2002 Enduro frame to build up as a spare bike for the wife.

    I called Specialized and got someone who did not sound all that sure of himself but he said NO the Recall WOULD NOT apply to a second owner nor would they offer ANY KIND of a break on a replacement frame if the second owner's frame broke and they wanted to buy a new one.
    I also called my local SPEALIZED shop and got the same answers.

    Based on my past experience with Ellsworth Truths ( three different broken experiences) and many more posts on the EW board) I was looking for some kind of discount deal like what EW has done for 2ed owner Truths.

    It seems I'll be building another Giant AC instead of the Enduro.
    The AC's seem to have a much better survival rate than 2002 Enduros.

    __________________________________________________ ________

    Kind of disapointing....
    My friend has broken his 2000 big hit (similar to the enduro) 3 times.
    Nothing to see here.

  3. #3
    Are you talking to me?
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    No big deal.

    The difference is not in how many/what bike breaks, but in how the failure is handled afterwards by the manufacturer.

    That, and I do not recall Mike Sinyard openly lying about anything.
    gfy

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redriderpro
    I thought the EW board people would find this interesting.
    I looking at building up a used 2002 Enduro frame for the wife, so I went looking for info on the Specialized site... found that the 2002 Enduro seems to not only have a RECALL but a breakage rate that is equal to or worse than the early Truths.

    Here's what I posted after reading a thread on the issue.
    __________________________________________________ ________
    I'm looking at buying a used 2002 Enduro frame to build up as a spare bike for the wife.

    I called Specialized and got someone who did not sound all that sure of himself but he said NO the Recall WOULD NOT apply to a second owner nor would they offer ANY KIND of a break on a replacement frame if the second owner's frame broke and they wanted to buy a new one.
    I also called my local SPEALIZED shop and got the same answers.

    Based on my past experience with Ellsworth Truths ( three different broken experiences) and many more posts on the EW board) I was looking for some kind of discount deal like what EW has done for 2ed owner Truths.

    It seems I'll be building another Giant AC instead of the Enduro.
    The AC's seem to have a much better survival rate than 2002 Enduros.

    __________________________________________________ ________

    Kind of disapointing....
    This guy was giving you the standard "this is our policy" talk. Ellsworth is no different in that respect.

    Check out his warranty. It only applies to the original owner.

    Call Ellsworth and I'll bet you get the same line. I seriously doubt that Ellsworth would say...."sure, go ahead and buy that second hand Ellsworth...we'll stand behind it." He'd be making himself liable. He already has it in print that he won't warranty a second hand frame.

    Now....Ellsworth may, and I believe has, helped second hand owners, but it's up to him. I know the owner of a second hand Specialized bike and Specialized warrantied the frame for him.

    As far as I see it, there is no difference.

    btw......it would be cool to find a great deal on an Ellsworth on Ebay and call EW to see if he'll still allow the warranty.

  5. #5
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    That's the Point!

    What I was trying to do was see if when I get the frame ( If I buy it) if it's cracked.
    ( It will come from thousands of miles away) would I be able to get some help on a "crash replacement". (unfortunatly, I've almost bought used frames in the past that owners had said had no cracks...that after getting a third party check, were found to be cracked)

    My post was not about how many Enduros broke... that don't matter, but with the numbers here locally, I wanted to know what "plan B" might be.

    Yes, I have seen posts for both brands saying they got help on used frames after breakage... I was trying to get info from the source. ( Specialized)
    ( and yes I have experience with EW on that issue too)

    In fact I called Specialized again today and talked with a different guy, he did say they have provided "crash replacement" deals in the past to second owners but stated that that usually is a decision made thru a local shop, my local shop had already said NO.

    So... I'll continue in my efforts to get the seller to carry the frame to a shop for third party inspection.. so I can talk with the shop to verify the condition of the frame.

    If the seller won't do that, then I'll pass. I buy several frames a year that way, some sellers are ok with that request others are not so I pass on their frames.

    Anyone have a better way to try and make sure you don't spend 300-500 for a broken frame?
    Thanks

  6. #6
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    Santa Cruz has a good policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Redriderpro
    What I was trying to do was see if when I get the frame ( If I buy it) if it's cracked.
    ( It will come from thousands of miles away) would I be able to get some help on a "crash replacement". (unfortunatly, I've almost bought used frames in the past that owners had said had no cracks...that after getting a third party check, were found to be cracked)

    My post was not about how many Enduros broke... that don't matter, but with the numbers here locally, I wanted to know what "plan B" might be.

    Yes, I have seen posts for both brands saying they got help on used frames after breakage... I was trying to get info from the source. ( Specialized)
    ( and yes I have experience with EW on that issue too)

    In fact I called Specialized again today and talked with a different guy, he did say they have provided "crash replacement" deals in the past to second owners but stated that that usually is a decision made thru a local shop, my local shop had already said NO.

    So... I'll continue in my efforts to get the seller to carry the frame to a shop for third party inspection.. so I can talk with the shop to verify the condition of the frame.

    If the seller won't do that, then I'll pass. I buy several frames a year that way, some sellers are ok with that request others are not so I pass on their frames.

    Anyone have a better way to try and make sure you don't spend 300-500 for a broken frame?
    Thanks
    Santa Cruz has a good crash replacement policy. I do not believe that they care if you are a second owner or not. For a Superlight or Heckler it is approx $250.00 for either a front or rear triangle, which IMHO is a fair price.

    For the record, I broke my used Truth in April. Ellsworth was willing to sell me a crash replacement front triangle, however with the design changes, it was going to cost me ~$1400.00 ($700 for the triangle) to get the bike back up and running by the time I also bought a new shock and rockers. Hardly a "fair" price as far as I was concerned. Of course if they had recalled the 2001 frames like they should have, I wouldn't have bought a frame that had a high likelihood of breaking....

    Bottom line, If Ellsworth had a decent Crash replacement policy, I would still be on one and supporting the brand. They didn't, and I am on a competitor's bike and will not recommend or buy an Ellsworth again

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrekrause
    Bottom line, If Ellsworth had a decent Crash replacement policy, I would still be on one and supporting the brand. They didn't, and I am on a competitor's bike and will not recommend or buy an Ellsworth again
    That is so true. I have not damaged mine after some crashes. Maybe I'm just lucky? My friend likes his Joker and will not recomend EW because of that and other reasons. I feel you spend big $$$ on a bike you should get better customer service. At this time I have not had to deal with them for this reason. If I do need to and I get treatment like some have I will be on the hate end of some posts.

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