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  1. #1
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    new pics of (old) Epi

    Seeing as I'd finally worked out how to post pics for my snow-biking shots of previous post - thought I'd post these build pics up for your interest. Had Epi for 16 months now, first pic is of original build when newish, the others are as it is now after some recent changes...spot the diference. Doesn't the anodising still look fresh even after a year of hammering!!

    I much prefer the performance of the new Fox Float to the old Revelation (which I had no end of reliability problems with) and the Float's 140mm length feels spot on for me on the Epi especially for mountainous terrain - I haven't felt the need for travel reduction (Talas) yet, the overall frame geometry is so good for climbing anyway. Acquired the new XT crankset which I can recommend, the shifting on the new rings is amazing.

    Epi's rule.
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  2. #2
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    I see you "upgraded" your mg rocker too.
    I too was forced to make this "upgrade" just last week...
    Hydrate or Die Trying

  3. #3
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    Nice build, all solid reliable stuff. Those new rockers look sweet too.
    "[SIZE="3"][SIZE="2"]but I do not see anything in the world of suspension methods that is superior to the 4 Bar.

    Dave Turner[/SIZE][/SIZE]

  4. #4
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    Well spotted. Yep, rockers were 'upgraded' to the stronger ones which are also fortunately a good colour match for the new forks and chainset. Luckily warranty worked ace for me, very good prompt service.

    Extra points would have been awarded for noticing the red horst link pivot bearing....I do seem to chew my way through these. The brake side Horst link bearing goes way before the others and on my third set in 16 months, on my second set of all other bearings...would be keen to here if this is normal wear and tear from other Epi owners.

    Its a fairly 'conservative' build compared to some others around, but I feel that going with a mostly XT level build and 'normal' (not super-pimp) wheels keeps the overall cost reasonable. Especially considering the good value on the frameset we get on exchange rate here in UK (Ellsworth are cheaper than Turner/ Santa Cruz/ Intense etc over here, while a premium price in the US as I understand). I have come to realise that allowing a bit more cost on the forks is worthwhile and adds to the performance. Build weighs in at 27.5 pounds....I plan to upgrade the old Juicy 5's in near future which should drop some grams.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndOverend
    Extra points would have been awarded for noticing the red horst link pivot bearing....I do seem to chew my way through these. The brake side Horst link bearing goes way before the others and on my third set in 16 months, on my second set of all other bearings...would be keen to here if this is normal wear and tear from other Epi owners.
    .
    hmmm. And how would I recognize if the bearing goes - does it develope play??
    ...and what does the red bearing represent - a stronger bearing, or just a different flavor?
    Hydrate or Die Trying

  6. #6
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    Very nice

    Bike looks great-nice build

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAINpusher
    hmmm. And how would I recognize if the bearing goes - does it develope play??
    ...and what does the red bearing represent - a stronger bearing, or just a different flavor?
    I noticed my bearings in the horst link were shot by doing a simple test, one that is worth doing often on any full-sus bike. Just stand at side of bike, grab one hand on top of the rear wheel, other hand on seatpost and push/pull - there will be some flex, but if there is any knocking it indicates something is up, most likely a worn bearing. In my case I could also see the pivot moving, or top tip....stick an allen key in end of suspect bearing's bolt and push/pull as before, the long arm of the allen key will acentuate any movement.

    I sometimes drop the shock out and move the swingarm to test for play or notchiness. In my experience it is not worth worrying if the bearings are hard to turn by finger when dissasembled (this happens quite quickly) - just replace when significant play or notchiness.

    The red bearing is an Enduro 'Max type' bearing. This has no cage retainers for the balls, and has more balls per bearing - they are supposedly better for rocking pivots as opposed to a normal bearing which is for full rotation, and can handle side loads better, they are specced as standard by some manufacturers (Intense) So in theory they should be better....I'll let you know if they last me longer than 4 months!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndOverend
    I noticed my bearings in the horst link were shot by doing a simple test, one that is worth doing often on any full-sus bike. Just stand at side of bike, grab one hand on top of the rear wheel, other hand on seatpost and push/pull - there will be some flex, but if there is any knocking it indicates something is up, most likely a worn bearing. In my case I could also see the pivot moving, or top tip....stick an allen key in end of suspect bearing's bolt and push/pull as before, the long arm of the allen key will acentuate any movement.

    I sometimes drop the shock out and move the swingarm to test for play or notchiness. In my experience it is not worth worrying if the bearings are hard to turn by finger when dissasembled (this happens quite quickly) - just replace when significant play or notchiness.

    The red bearing is an Enduro 'Max type' bearing. This has no cage retainers for the balls, and has more balls per bearing - they are supposedly better for rocking pivots as opposed to a normal bearing which is for full rotation, and can handle side loads better, they are specced as standard by some manufacturers (Intense) So in theory they should be better....I'll let you know if they last me longer than 4 months!
    Thanks, I'll keep that in mind for when I need to replace mine.
    Hydrate or Die Trying

  9. #9
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    It looks like the handlebar is overrolled forward. Don't you have palm ackes?

    benny

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    Quote Originally Posted by konair
    It looks like the handlebar is overrolled forward. Don't you have palm ackes?

    benny
    I actually ride with mine rolled even a bit further foward...is there talk of this being bad for your palms?? I haven't noticed any issues, I preffer the "open" feel of the cockpit and the sweep of the bars when rolled foward.
    Hydrate or Die Trying

  11. #11
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    If it's good for you...than o.k

    Quote Originally Posted by PAINpusher
    I actually ride with mine rolled even a bit further foward...is there talk of this being bad for your palms?? I haven't noticed any issues, I preffer the "open" feel of the cockpit and the sweep of the bars when rolled foward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by konair
    It looks like the handlebar is overrolled forward. Don't you have palm ackes?

    benny
    Oh yeah looks a bit that way in pic but setup about right I think. The latest Easton monkeylite xc's (low-rise) do have a funny shape where there is alot of rise in the bar between the bend and the tip, so the grip portion is upwardly angled alot - not something many other manufacturers do and I'm not so sure of the reasoning, something to be aware of if considering these. They feel comfortable enough, but do raise the hand position more than most low-rise bars, and if anything provoke a nice elbows out aggresive position when descending.

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    May I know what year is your frame made?
    I'm pretty new to this forum and also a new of "an old" Epi owner.. I have 2007 Epi and bought it at the first year. May I know why do you need to upgrade the mg rocker? Is there any issue to the old rocker? What is it? If it is already out of warranty, since mine is, how can I buy it and how much does it cost?

    And are there any issues that Epi's have? What are they? Especially for the 2007 made.. I see you guys are talking about bolt, skewer Ti, etc and somehow I feel like in the "missing link" don't understand the whole threads.. I also heard about the carbon on the rocker is hitting the seatpost, is that true? If there any issues regardless to Epi I really would like to know it.. At least I can make sure if everything is safe. Thank you.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbayu
    May I know what year is your frame made?
    I'm pretty new to this forum and also a new of "an old" Epi owner.. I have 2007 Epi and bought it at the first year. May I know why do you need to upgrade the mg rocker? Is there any issue to the old rocker? What is it? If it is already out of warranty, since mine is, how can I buy it and how much does it cost?

    And are there any issues that Epi's have? What are they? Especially for the 2007 made.. I see you guys are talking about bolt, skewer Ti, etc and somehow I feel like in the "missing link" don't understand the whole threads.. I also heard about the carbon on the rocker is hitting the seatpost, is that true? If there any issues regardless to Epi I really would like to know it.. At least I can make sure if everything is safe. Thank you.
    if you just run a search, you'll get all the info you need on the rocker issue, way more than i'd be able to offer up in a short reply...but just to summarize- look at the rocker arms, if you don't see serial numbers along the side of them, then you have an earlier set (and most likely there are some spots here or there that are starting to corrode). The bad news is that your mg rocker arm will probably break (right were the arms bolt to the shock), at which point you can send them back to ellsworth for a free aluminum replacement set, no questions asked.

    What is good is that the aluminum rocker arm gives you the confidence that you will not ever break your rocker again, but that is at the cost of adding 173 grams of weight to your frame (.38 pounds).
    Hydrate or Die Trying

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbayu
    May I know what year is your frame made?
    I'm pretty new to this forum and also a new of "an old" Epi owner.. I have 2007 Epi and bought it at the first year. May I know why do you need to upgrade the mg rocker? Is there any issue to the old rocker? What is it? If it is already out of warranty, since mine is, how can I buy it and how much does it cost?

    And are there any issues that Epi's have? What are they? Especially for the 2007 made.. I see you guys are talking about bolt, skewer Ti, etc and somehow I feel like in the "missing link" don't understand the whole threads.. I also heard about the carbon on the rocker is hitting the seatpost, is that true? If there any issues regardless to Epi I really would like to know it.. At least I can make sure if everything is safe. Thank you.
    Congratulations on owning such a great bike. To put your mind at rest, there are no big 'issues' with Epi, just a few well documented problems with early magnesium rockers which a search will bring up.

    Mine was a late 2006 frame, my original rockers were Mag, they had serial numbers, they never 'pitted', I weigh 150lbs and ride light and smooth, mine snapped riding uphill, I was not happy. But sometimes **** happens. I was upgraded under warranty to the heavier (150g +) Alu rocker that comes as standard on Large frames. Should you worry (should anyone?)....maybe...check for signs of surface corrosion (white spots), check for cracking of rocker between seat-tube pivot and forward shock mount- under side and middle of forward pocket. Warranty will cover this, though it remains to be seen if it would be respected after the 2 year period ends. I am guessing that 'upgrading' the rocker out of warranty would be very expensive as it is a precision machined component, I wouldn't do it unless forced to by a failure.

    Other minor issues:
    1. If a small size frame: check that a long reward facing seatclamp quickrelease clears the carbon brace under full compression (Salsa is long and may hit). Mine clears on Medium.

    2. Check that base of front mech guide plate clears the swingarm also under full compression, remove air from can and compress to verify.

    3. If running forks with high rebound adjusters (Ie: 07/08 Fox RLC) check that they clear downtube with bars turned 90 degrees. Mine clear with a gnats whiskas with a relatively deep Hope lower race, but then a miss is a miss.

    Don't fret, just make checks, everything has a few issues, ride and enjoy one of the finest riding bikes that graces the trails.

  16. #16
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    nbayu-
    It was my 06 small Moment that bottomed out and the carbon brace hit the salsa QR seat clamp. Others have checked their newer small frames, and it's not a problem. I bottomed out b/c I had pretty low pressure in my shock when I was trying to dial it in.

    I think the only problem I've read about the Epi is with the Mg rockers. But Ells will take care of you.

  17. #17
    aje
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndOverend
    Well spotted. Yep, rockers were 'upgraded' to the stronger ones which are also fortunately a good colour match for the new forks and chainset. Luckily warranty worked ace for me, very good prompt service.
    Guys...just wondering...I'm 200lbs...and I did snap my rocker arms, which were duely replaced by the LBS in a couple of days. Though I'm a bit blur about the "upgraded" heavier rocker arms. Can some one please point me in the right direction ? I'd rather the additional weight then to snap them in the middle of tropical forest 5 hours out from anything.

    And no...I don't do jumps...just ride over stuff as fast as I can.

    Cheers..

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by aje
    Guys...just wondering...I'm 200lbs...and I did snap my rocker arms, which were duely replaced by the LBS in a couple of days. Though I'm a bit blur about the "upgraded" heavier rocker arms. Can some one please point me in the right direction ? I'd rather the additional weight then to snap them in the middle of tropical forest 5 hours out from anything.

    And no...I don't do jumps...just ride over stuff as fast as I can.

    Cheers..
    Dude, check my photos at top to spot the difference in rockers. First pic is with Mg rockers, a golden colour - the second picture is with the Aluminium rockers which are a definate silver colour (I've heard a rumour the new ones are actually a Alu/ Mg mix) . Also notice the increase in material at front of rocker around the shock mount - that whole front pocket is smaller in new rocker as less material has been machined away, making these stronger in the area where all the failures that I'm aware of have occured. My old Mg rocker weighed 350g, new Alu weighs 500g.

    I'm glad I have the Alu rockers, as I believe Mg to be too difficult a material to be using in this area, it appears to be too brittle and susceptable to corrosion. If I broke them with my weight and riding style, I believe ALL Epi riders could brake their Mg rockers if all the rockers are identical (although manufacturing inconsitencies may well account for the failures, and the man TE (Oh hail thee) himself alluded to this in a reply many many moons ago).

    No problems with new rockers yet. If it's any consolation, I was able to limp my bike back to base, about an hours ride, with my cracked rocker - as it had not split right through.

  19. #19
    aje
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndOverend
    Dude, check my photos at top to spot the difference in rockers. First pic is with Mg rockers, a golden colour - the second picture is with the Aluminium rockers which are a definate silver colour (I've heard a rumour the new ones are actually a Alu/ Mg mix) . Also notice the increase in material at front of rocker around the shock mount - that whole front pocket is smaller in new rocker as less material has been machined away, making these stronger in the area where all the failures that I'm aware of have occured. My old Mg rocker weighed 350g, new Alu weighs 500g.

    I'm glad I have the Alu rockers, as I believe Mg to be too difficult a material to be using in this area, it appears to be too brittle and susceptable to corrosion. If I broke them with my weight and riding style, I believe ALL Epi riders could brake their Mg rockers if all the rockers are identical (although manufacturing inconsitencies may well account for the failures, and the man TE (Oh hail thee) himself alluded to this in a reply many many moons ago).

    No problems with new rockers yet. If it's any consolation, I was able to limp my bike back to base, about an hours ride, with my cracked rocker - as it had not split right through.
    Ah...cheers. Mine split all the way through cracking the carbon stiffener...not ridable after that. Will go visit the LBS and discuss with them about the change as they replaced mine with the Mg ones.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndOverend
    Congratulations on owning such a great bike. To put your mind at rest, there are no big 'issues' with Epi, just a few well documented problems with early magnesium rockers which a search will bring up.

    Mine was a late 2006 frame, my original rockers were Mag, they had serial numbers, they never 'pitted', I weigh 150lbs and ride light and smooth, mine snapped riding uphill, I was not happy. But sometimes **** happens. I was upgraded under warranty to the heavier (150g +) Alu rocker that comes as standard on Large frames. Should you worry (should anyone?)....maybe...check for signs of surface corrosion (white spots), check for cracking of rocker between seat-tube pivot and forward shock mount- under side and middle of forward pocket. Warranty will cover this, though it remains to be seen if it would be respected after the 2 year period ends. I am guessing that 'upgrading' the rocker out of warranty would be very expensive as it is a precision machined component, I wouldn't do it unless forced to by a failure.

    Other minor issues:
    1. If a small size frame: check that a long reward facing seatclamp quickrelease clears the carbon brace under full compression (Salsa is long and may hit). Mine clears on Medium.

    2. Check that base of front mech guide plate clears the swingarm also under full compression, remove air from can and compress to verify.

    3. If running forks with high rebound adjusters (Ie: 07/08 Fox RLC) check that they clear downtube with bars turned 90 degrees. Mine clear with a gnats whiskas with a relatively deep Hope lower race, but then a miss is a miss.

    Don't fret, just make checks, everything has a few issues, ride and enjoy one of the finest riding bikes that graces the trails.
    Thanks EoE.
    Mine is also a medium size and has serial number on the rocker, and just like you, I ride light and smooth.. and about 130 lbs. Hopefully there's nothing serious will happen and realize the broken before I play it.. hehe.. I also already asked, the price they (freeborn) put is about 250 poundsterling.. that's exlcude the postage.. gee.. an expensive one.. and they said that it's made of Mg and Al mix.. however, the bad thing is I can't get any serial number in range after I search the forum.. so I guess I need to be carefull more now..

    btw, I think I will follow your suggestion to ride on first.. Thanks..

  21. #21
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    nbayu-
    Don't pay for the new rocker as Ellsworth will give it to you as a warranty upgrade. The trick is they will not deal directly with the customer and so you have to have your local bike shop do it. Luckily I live in San Diego about an hour from their shop and it was done in less than a week at no charge. The other nice thing is the new rockers come with new bearings as well!!
    FYI- I have a 2007 Large that had the Mg rocker and never had any issues. My local shop has never seen one broken either, but if you want a piece of mind out the woods a long way from home, you might as well take advantage of the upgrade!

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