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  1. #1
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    New epiphany climbing question

    Happy Holidays

    Just got a new large epiphany, Talas X fork, RP 23, Juicy 7, Crossmax SL, XTR/XT drivetrain ~ 27.75 lbs. Changed out the EA 70 stem for Thompson 110 10 degree rise which helps fit in my case.

    Previously I was riding a 2003 enduro with fifth element air shock wgt about 28.5 lbs. After 2 rides I am concerned that I climbed better on the enduro. Makes no sense.

    My shock is set at 150 psi (I weigh 175-180 about 6+ ft tall, sag seemed ok), propedal is on setting 1. I have dropped the fork to 100mm on climbs. Anyone have any suggestions ? What am I doing wrong ? The epi should climb better than the enduro, no ?

    Climbing style unchanged, seated or seated on nose for steep climbs.

    Thanks

    NE rider

  2. #2
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
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    Quote Originally Posted by NE rider
    I climbed better I have dropped the fork to 100mm on climbs. Anyone have any suggestions ? What am I doing wrong ? The epi should climb better than the enduro, no ?

    Climbing style unchanged, seated or seated on nose for steep climbs.

    Thanks

    NE rider
    NE, Can you explain what you don't like when you climb. Is the front too light or does it lift? Do you mean it is slower or do the rocks spit out the back? Are you falling over? I think the guys on this forum will help if you can detail the problems.

    I just got my forth ride in three days on my new Epiphany and I have moved my saddle or stem or rotated my bar etc. etc. after every ride to try and dial it in. You should try the same and see what works for you. BTW I came off a MotoLite that has the Specialized rear end on it and my new Epi setting are no way near the same.

    Post a pic or two of you new ride so we can see it. And have fun fine tuning your bike
    Vote with your feet.
    No bike is perfect!

  3. #3
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    Epiphany Climbing question

    Thanks for the reply

    I was having problems with the front end coming up but a longer stem improved this as it did my cramped feeling in the "cockpit".

    The best way to describe it is that my rear end seems heavy, not snappy, light feel that I had on the enduro. Climbing the same hill I feel I am putting out more effort (I even thought my rear disk might rubbing against the pad but this was not the case.

    I am going to tinker with the air pressure and rebound settings on the RP23

    What are people running the propedal setting at 1 2 or 3

    Any other suggestions ?

    I suspect you are correct that some fine tunning is all thats needed. I will post some pics soon

    NE

  4. #4
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    Try it with the PP off...the bike design is such that adding compression damping tends to make it feel dead, IMO. With the PP off, the rear end will remain more active like the Sp. FSR design. I believe that the PP damping on my RP is too much in the #1 setting - I don't even think about 2 or 3 (this would be like lockout). I use PP for road riding to and from the trail. All other applications I leave it off.

    Are you running the same tires on both bikes? And how about the wheels/hubs? Could this be different causing you to notice drag out back? There's a lot of variables involved...
    Last edited by chad1433; 12-26-2006 at 07:20 AM.

  5. #5
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    Like Chad said, could be many things. I came off of a RacerX and I would consider my Epiphany to be an equal when it comes to lively/snappy acceleration. The bike should not feel sluggish at all if you have the shock set up right and are not spinning a big heavy tire. In addition to what Chad mentioned, I would also check the speed of your re-bound dampening. In my experience, if it's too slow and the shock pressure is a little low, the bike will feel very sluggish. Also, I rarely use the PP mode. The suspension design is efficient enough that I feel you don't really need it (at least for the places I ride). However, If I'm riding long stretches of pavement or smooth up-hills, I switch to the number 1 setting on the PP, but no more than that. Knowing what I know now about the Epi., I probably would have opted for the regular Float R.

    My wife and son both ride Stumpy 100's and I can tell you, if the Epi is set up correctly, there is absoultley no comparison. Especially when it comes to climbing. Climbing imo, is the Epi's best attribute. It's mind blowing what the bike will do when the trail gets nasty and starts heading up-hill.

    I would keep tweaking with the shock and the cockpit until you find the correct setting. It took me 4-5 rides to get mine set up. In, fact I'm still doing minor tweaking to try and squeeze out every last bit of efficiency.

    Good luck

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pachaven
    I just got my forth ride in three days on my new Epiphany and I have moved my saddle or stem or rotated my bar etc. etc. after every ride to try and dial it in. You should try the same and see what works for you. BTW I came off a MotoLite that has the Specialized rear end on it and my new Epi setting are no way near the same.
    bike
    This is a little OT, but I noticed you came off a Motolite. I've been on the fence lately
    about which would be a better climber, the Epi or Motolite. I think I like the Epi
    geometry a little better, but could you compare the difference in climbing feel of the 2 bikes ?
    I'm basically looking for an AM bike that I can do longish XC type climbs on without
    feeling too punished.

    As far as NE's ques., I would try a flatter stem, perhaps 0 rise.
    Also, I think the wheelbase is probably an inch longer on the Epi, the chainstays
    probably 1/2" longer also, so trying different seat positions, as has been said, might help.
    From what I remember, Spec has a low BB; Epi is about an inch higher - you may just
    need to take the time to dial in your riding style to fit the new bike.

  7. #7
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
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    Quote Originally Posted by le_buzz
    This is a little OT, but I noticed you came off a Motolite. I've been on the fence lately
    about which would be a better climber, the Epi or Motolite. I think I like the Epi
    geometry a little better, but could you compare the difference in climbing feel of the 2 bikes ?
    I'm basically looking for an AM bike that I can do longish XC type climbs on without
    feeling too punished.
    Le Buzzzzzzzz,
    To answer your question fairly, you should know that the two bikes are AWESOME. I also have a BLT and I like it a lot but would rank it third. The Epi and the ML are 1 & 2.
    The Epi is a med and the ML is a small. So that makes the comparison a little difficult because the ML has a shorter shock and that changes the rate a little. (Donít ask me how; I suck at the tech stuff)
    The Epi is still being fine tuned but the overall impression is that the suspension is just a tad suppler on the climbs. Not to say the ML is less than the Epi, it is just a little more firm. I know that this post is crap for help le buzz, but I need some more time on the Epiphany to give you a true comparison of the bikes. I will try to keep you updated as my adjustment to the bike take place and my impressions solidify.
    Vote with your feet.
    No bike is perfect!

  8. #8
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    I have to agree with Chad on this,
    I consider myself a technical climber and while we dont have long climbs in Ontario we have lost of short super steep super techy ones. And in these conditions the Epi has done nothing short of blowing me away with its climbing prowess. I get giddy at the top of some of these climbs, just blown away with how easy it was.

    I dont have the RP3 / 23 rather i have rockshox MC 3.3, but it still has various propedal settings. And (this is where i agree with Chad) in any of the techy stuff i shut the propedal off. In fact i only use it on very smooth climbs or at other times when i am guaranteed to be doing some out of the saddle efforts. The MC 3.3 also has a full lockout, which i use for the road.

    thumb

  9. #9
    over 50 years of cycling
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    Cool-blue Rhythm don't even HAVE lockout

    I definitely blow right through all my "benchmarks", with my Epi, for getting up super steep, techy climbs, compared to my previous Spec Epic brain or Klein Pulse hardtail, which are both known as "good climbers".

    But it certainly takes a slight learning curve with a slightly different technique both for the weight shift to get over big step-up obstacles, and hanging onto traction on steep grinds.

    I am running a cheapo Fox ICT "tuned" Float R, with medium damping setting, 180 psi for my 195pounds, and I don't miss the missing lockout. If I want to ride road type stuff, I will break out the hardtail or maybe dust off the ancient road bike.
    Live in the moment.
    YMMV

  10. #10
    anc
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    Sounds to me like you may be running to much sag. I'm 70kg and run 150psi, and the epi is the best climber bar none I've used, very snappy. Thats coming from a s-works epic, which is very useful in that department.
    Very Technical I use no propedal, but moderate to easy sustained climbing I use the 2 setting, creates a stable platform to getting the power down.

    The reason I say you may have to much sag, I recently had a 'suck down'(lost 15mm) issue with the shock and I noticed it most on the climbs the bike felt as if it was getting bogged down.

  11. #11
    Time is not a road.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anc
    The reason I say you may have to much sag, I recently had a 'suck down'(lost 15mm) issue with the shock and I noticed it most on the climbs the bike felt as if it was getting bogged down.
    This can happen if you have too much rebound added as well...

  12. #12
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    Make sure when setting the bike up that you are running 25% sag, don't go off of PSI to determine proper rear shock inflation. Sit on your bike with full riding gear (don't bounce, or sit harshly) and measure your sag. 20% to 25% should be perfect. The Epip is the best climbing bike I've ever been on as well.

  13. #13
    anc
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    Remember also if its brand new the seals on the shock will stick a little, this can make it difficult to get a true measure of the sag.
    Also make sure your your riding weight, camelback etc..

  14. #14
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    Follow-up to climbing issue

    Thanks to all for the advice

    I changed the stem to an EA 70 120mm. Then I adjusted (decreased) the rebound on the shock and increased pressure to 175-180 (roughly my weight)

    MUCH better !

    Today I tried climbing with the propedal off, I understand now why many of you suggested leaving it off, I found it climbed very well.

    I also changed to UST tubless tires (my 2.3 Nevegals were very worn). I put on the 2.3 Hutch spiders that came with the bike. I have had good luck with the Nevegals in the NE particularly in the wet. Unfortunately, they dont make a 2.3 tubless. I would welcome any tire suggestons.

    You were right dialing the bike in is making a big difference !

    Thanks

    Happy New Year

  15. #15
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    I *love* my Nevegals. I run the 2.3" or 2.35", whatever it is, with Stan's.

    Have you considered that? It'll lighten you up a bit too, which should also improve your climbing.

    I know people feel very passionately about the whole tubes/ tubeless/ UST debate; I, for one, am very much a fan of Stan's system.

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