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  1. #1
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    New bikes announced , to be released at interbike

    So let's start the speculation What's coming ?

    I will start with a new Moment . This time a proper Enduro Dh bike.

    So what does anyone else think?

  2. #2
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    Hopefully a 4" travel 27.5 bike! Like the absolute truth was supposed to be.

  3. #3
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    So the change of ownership was hogwash?
    WTB:

  4. #4
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    My guess is that there will be an attempt (hopefully successful) to bring the bikes in line with what's popular now. It seems like the Moment's gotta make a come back -- maybe all carbon, 27.5, lower BB, internal routing, 65-66 degree head angle, smaller rockers or some other visual change to make it more appealing to those that don't like the look of Ellsworths. And hopefully the prices won't go up anymore!

    The most intriguing thing for me will be to see Ellsworth does something that hasn't already been done by another company. It's hard to imagine what that would be. It seems like they'll just be playing catch up, especially in the DH-oriented areas.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegard View Post
    So the change of ownership was hogwash?
    Who would buy a company with a shrinking following?

    Ellsworth has been on a steady decline. They have been behind the times and dining out on past history for quite a while. Just look at this forum's use over the last few years, little to no new info or users.

    The market is tough for small companies, innovate or die and I can't think of the last time Ellsworth was synonamis with innovation.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    Who would buy a company with a shrinking following?

    Ellsworth has been on a steady decline. They have been behind the times and dining out on past history for quite a while. Just look at this forum's use over the last few years, little to no new info or users.

    The market is tough for small companies, innovate or die and I can't think of the last time Ellsworth was synonamis with innovation.
    An American carbon manufacturer apparently.

  7. #7
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    Well they kick off with a new dare. 160,180 or 200mm options like the rogue used to be ( although that's not actually possible with standard size shocks, so guessing it a generalisation as usual!)
    What's more it's carbon and 27.5 of course. Really hoping they've got the geometry dialled this time !

  8. #8
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    63 degree head angle and 14 inch BB 225 mm travel . Sounds comparable but not ground breaking. Flip chip alters geo and adjusts ratio for shorter travel.
    Looks nice !
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New bikes announced , to be released at  interbike-image.jpg  


  9. #9
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    i'm shocked [people are still holding out for bikes from ellsworth. there are so many great alternatives out there that aren't still trapped in the 90s design wise

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    i'm shocked [people are still holding out for bikes from ellsworth. there are so many great alternatives out there that aren't still trapped in the 90s design wise
    I am shocked that your still holding out for the opportunity to slag off Ellsworth.

    How many times can you roll out the same old tripe ? Ask yourself that question.

    Yes there are alternatives . That's what makes new bikes interesting but not everyone wants to jump on every new band wagon because not everything hailed as the latest and greatest is actually better than things that came before !
    Personally I am just as excited to see a new Ells as a new ibis or trek or many other brands.

    Evolution is often better than new design. Hence specialized , santa cruz , intense etc etc etc etc blah blah blah blah .

  11. #11
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    Bringing out a 180'sh bike is interesting. Not many 180mm bikes out there these days but a lot of enduro riders are looking for just a little more. So maybe Ells are ahead of the game for once.

  12. #12
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    I rode the carbon Epiphany 275 and loved it. I thought the front end looked steep, but it felt great while riding. I wanted to ride the Aluminum Epiphany 275, but rode the carbon Evolve 29er instead. I love that bike as well, although I was not thrilled with the fork setup on that particular bike. There were plenty of people lining up for a ride on both days of the demo. I was told the new frames will have a lifetime warranty. The new carbon frames will be made in San Diego.

    Those that are offended that the suspension looks different and has not been updated (although it has been refined) should maybe study the kinematics of four-bar linkages and figure out what "instant center" means. Ride a bike before you discount the design. Having said that, my two favorite bikes of the demo were the Epiphany 275 (which I expected to like) and the Niner Rip 9 RDO (which I expected to dislike). I need more test riding to pick between the two.
    Mountain bikers, hikers and horseback riders are not the enemy. Bulldozers are the enemy.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nsynk View Post
    I am shocked that your still holding out for the opportunity to slag off Ellsworth.

    How many times can you roll out the same old tripe ? Ask yourself that question.

    Yes there are alternatives . That's what makes new bikes interesting but not everyone wants to jump on every new band wagon because not everything hailed as the latest and greatest is actually better than things that came before !
    Personally I am just as excited to see a new Ells as a new ibis or trek or many other brands.

    Evolution is often better than new design. Hence specialized , santa cruz , intense etc etc etc etc blah blah blah blah .
    ells has been trapped in the 90s since the 90s. sorry, modern geometry is not the latest bandwagon. fanboi love is ok, but it is blind

    and they still spin the truth quite well.

    here's their quote of what bikemag said about the epiphany "Bike Magazine took an in-depth look into our 27.5" Epiphany line, put the bikes to work and concluded that the versatility of the line and the sex-appeal makes it the choice of those that want the best in the enduro discipline."

    lol, but here is what they actually said

    "Enter the Enduro The Epiphany 275 Enduro SST.2e gets up climbs nearly as well as its XC twin. No big surprise since the bike doesn’t weigh much more and sports the same basic suspension design and components. The Enduro, however, runs a 68 degree headtube, which gives the bike a far more capable feeling on descents. It’s hard to believe what a big difference two little degrees can make, but it truly sets the two bikes apart.

    But here’s the bigger question: How does the Epiphany Enduro actually compare to other Enduro rigs on the market? To be honest, I think it needs some work. While it’s a more capable descender than the Epiphany C XC, it falls short of what you experience on something like a Kona Process 153, Santa Cruz Nomad or Specialized Enduro. Compared to those bikes, the Epiphany Enduro sports a relatively steep head angle and short top tube. By modern “enduro” standards, the Ellsworth is still biased towards climbing (rather than pummeling technical downhills). Is it a good bike? Yes… It is not, however, a great one."


    it isn't that the suspension isn't good, ells is stuck in the 90s geometry wise. i guess if you are into retro geometry with modern materials ells has that market covered.

  14. #14
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    Wow, quite liberal with the quoting, but did we not catch them years ago misquoting articles too? Same old bag of tricks, in more ways than one.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    ells has been trapped in the 90s since the 90s. sorry, modern geometry is not the latest bandwagon. fanboi love is ok, but it is blind

    and they still spin the truth quite well.

    here's their quote of what bikemag said about the epiphany "Bike Magazine took an in-depth look into our 27.5" Epiphany line, put the bikes to work and concluded that the versatility of the line and the sex-appeal makes it the choice of those that want the best in the enduro discipline."

    lol, but here is what they actually said

    "Enter the Enduro The Epiphany 275 Enduro SST.2e gets up climbs nearly as well as its XC twin. No big surprise since the bike doesn’t weigh much more and sports the same basic suspension design and components. The Enduro, however, runs a 68 degree headtube, which gives the bike a far more capable feeling on descents. It’s hard to believe what a big difference two little degrees can make, but it truly sets the two bikes apart.

    But here’s the bigger question: How does the Epiphany Enduro actually compare to other Enduro rigs on the market? To be honest, I think it needs some work. While it’s a more capable descender than the Epiphany C XC, it falls short of what you experience on something like a Kona Process 153, Santa Cruz Nomad or Specialized Enduro. Compared to those bikes, the Epiphany Enduro sports a relatively steep head angle and short top tube. By modern “enduro” standards, the Ellsworth is still biased towards climbing (rather than pummeling technical downhills). Is it a good bike? Yes… It is not, however, a great one."


    it isn't that the suspension isn't good, ells is stuck in the 90s geometry wise. i guess if you are into retro geometry with modern materials ells has that market covered.
    Did you check out the geometry of the new dare before posting ? It's identical to the 2015 Trek Session . old school out dated ? Or finally catching up ?

    I've always agreed the geometry needed fixing . Here's a quote i made in this same forum
    03-26-2014 #1
    Nsynk
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    It would be a bit short sighted of Els not to have a proper Enduro bike in its line up.

    Calling an epiphany "enduro" doesn't make it a proper enduro machine. Maybe super d but not enduro.
    Problem is the moment was not a good enduro machine . It was too heavy and sluggish uphill and the geometry was too old school. It needed a compete redesign.

    The great thing was that by using different length shocks, angle sets and offset bushings you could fix the geometry issues.

    Mind you as I have. Pointed out several times Ells website is not accurate on geometry , they generalise on travel too putting everything to the nearest inch !

    Oh and as for outdated old designs , have a look at one of next years Cube bikes offerings

  16. #16
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    Not dissimilar looks wise

    New bikes announced , to be released at  interbike-image.jpg

    These cubes are looking not dissimilar to Ells at the rear.

  17. #17
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    The problem is that the TE (heard he's still at the reigns?) up top seems to be so insecure that he has to believe his bikes are the best ever for everything all the time. It doesn't seem like it's enough to make nice bikes, for some reason they have to be the absolute best bikes. If it seems like they may not be, he needs to change his reality to perpetuate his perception by changing quotes or making blatantly false claims. When we called him out last time on this, he went back to his website, CHANGED the quotes, and then called us liars. This is one of the reasons TE got the reputation for pathological liar and it may have been what prompted the Iraqi Minister of Information photoshop.

    I realize that they are trying to sell bikes, but when you try this hard you only end up damaging yourself in the end. Will the turner FS fatbike be the best of it's kind forever and ever? Course not, and I'm sure Dave knows this, in fact, he's already come out and said it's not a "snow-bike", although you can use it on snow. If there was a Fatsolute Truth, TE would naturally claim it's the best snow bike and fat bike that the world has ever seen.

    The sad part is that Ellsworth has seemed to make some nice bikes as of lately (last 5 years or so).
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  18. #18
    whatever she says gueuze.
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    I don't think my method is stuck in the 90's. It rides better than my 2012 Uzzi that I've sold. I have both an Intense and an Ells and yes, VPP does climb more efficiently, the 4-bar is always plusher going down.

  19. #19
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    That 180mm version might be interesting. Can't think of another carbon 180mm travel bike with 27.5 wheels. Hope the geometry is good. Might be ahead of the game and ready for super enduro ?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndinh View Post
    I don't think my method is stuck in the 90's. It rides better than my 2012 Uzzi that I've sold. I have both an Intense and an Ells and yes, VPP does climb more efficiently, the 4-bar is always plusher going down.
    I've been holding out for an Uzzi C for a long time now.

  21. #21
    whatever she says gueuze.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    The problem is that the TE (heard he's still at the reigns?) up top seems to be so insecure that he has to believe his bikes are the best ever for everything all the time. It doesn't seem like it's enough to make nice bikes, for some reason they have to be the absolute best bikes. If it seems like they may not be, he needs to change his reality to perpetuate his perception by changing quotes or making blatantly false claims. When we called him out last time on this, he went back to his website, CHANGED the quotes, and then called us liars. This is one of the reasons TE got the reputation for pathological liar and it may have been what prompted the Iraqi Minister of Information photoshop.

    I realize that they are trying to sell bikes, but when you try this hard you only end up damaging yourself in the end. Will the turner FS fatbike be the best of it's kind forever and ever? Course not, and I'm sure Dave knows this, in fact, he's already come out and said it's not a "snow-bike", although you can use it on snow. If there was a Fatsolute Truth, TE would naturally claim it's the best snow bike and fat bike that the world has ever seen.

    The sad part is that Ellsworth has seemed to make some nice bikes as of lately (last 5 years or so).
    Yep, I've also heard TE was a pompous a$$. I've been a long time Ells owner going back to the early Dares that Shawms March use to ride and have always had pretty good customer service from the company as a whole. Yes, the frames are top-notched, but to say that your bike is the best is pretty stupid because there are no bikes that are the 'best' to everyone. I bought my Rogue years ago for $2400, and was ready to upgrade to a Method. Pretty much the same frame except for smaller details and different angles, no carbon or anything that would make it more expensive. Retail on a Method was $3K. WTF? I ran out and bought an Uzzi instead for much cheaper. I, only recently bought a Method because they seem to be on clearance now for $2K. Now Ells wonders why customers have switched brands lately. Great FR/AM frame though.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    ells has been trapped in the 90s since the 90s. sorry, modern geometry is not the latest bandwagon. fanboi love is ok, but it is blind

    and they still spin the truth quite well.

    here's their quote of what bikemag said about the epiphany "Bike Magazine took an in-depth look into our 27.5" Epiphany line, put the bikes to work and concluded that the versatility of the line and the sex-appeal makes it the choice of those that want the best in the enduro discipline."

    lol, but here is what they actually said

    "Enter the Enduro The Epiphany 275 Enduro SST.2e gets up climbs nearly as well as its XC twin. No big surprise since the bike doesn’t weigh much more and sports the same basic suspension design and components. The Enduro, however, runs a 68 degree headtube, which gives the bike a far more capable feeling on descents. It’s hard to believe what a big difference two little degrees can make, but it truly sets the two bikes apart.

    But here’s the bigger question: How does the Epiphany Enduro actually compare to other Enduro rigs on the market? To be honest, I think it needs some work. While it’s a more capable descender than the Epiphany C XC, it falls short of what you experience on something like a Kona Process 153, Santa Cruz Nomad or Specialized Enduro. Compared to those bikes, the Epiphany Enduro sports a relatively steep head angle and short top tube. By modern “enduro” standards, the Ellsworth is still biased towards climbing (rather than pummeling technical downhills). Is it a good bike? Yes… It is not, however, a great one."


    it isn't that the suspension isn't good, ells is stuck in the 90s geometry wise. i guess if you are into retro geometry with modern materials ells has that market covered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Wow, quite liberal with the quoting, but did we not catch them years ago misquoting articles too? Same old bag of tricks, in more ways than one.
    Yep!
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nsynk View Post
    That 180mm version might be interesting. Can't think of another carbon 180mm travel bike with 27.5 wheels. Hope the geometry is good. Might be ahead of the game and ready for super enduro ?
    yt industries capra. 170mm but awesome spec and incredible value

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    yt industries capra. 170mm but awesome spec and incredible value
    And there was me thinking you didn't like Horst link bikes!
    Yt Capra is supposed to be an brilliant bike! Have you tried a yt ? They are apparently awesome . Not least on value . Danny H is going to rule on them ( presumeably )
    However ... Still trying to work out how the bike is 160 mm with a fox shock and 170 with a boss for the same eye to eye.

    My son said this morning that yt is top of his wish list . I've been holding out for an Uzzi c for a while but the Capra is looking pretty tempting , but 180 mm is not 170 mm ! 10 mm does make a difference ! And the waiting time is currently v v long !

  25. #25
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    i have no issue with horst bikes. i love the look of the new transition bikes. yt have a very good reputation and offer incredible spec for the price. i have no need for 180MM bike, 170mm would be pushing it. if i needed more i'd get a dh bike and the yt tues would be up on that list as well.

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