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  1. #1
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    My beloved 2003 Truth Died today

    Seat tube broke just above the derailer. Is this a common failure point?

    Did a little bunny hop at the top of a climb because I knew my buddies were waiting for me just on the other side. Luckily I really had very little speed and got maybe 6 inch's of air when it happened because it could have been pretty catastrophic if I had been charging a downhill. Clearly the area had be stressed already I guess over time and this just broke the camels back.

    This has been a great bike, after 4 years I still loved the way it handled and cannot wait to replace it. Got a couple questions for folks how may have gone thru this before.

    Dug up my original purchase receipt (Out of State Bike shop) and Warranty card. Should I contact Ellsworth directly via Phone or e-mail or find some dealer in my area (Even though I did not purchase it thru them).

    What can I expect as far as how Ellsworth will handle this?

    Thanks in advance
    Jeff




    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...=1#post2898898
    Last edited by TahoeBC; 03-31-2007 at 05:32 PM.

  2. #2
    Rolling
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    Haven't seen that before.....

    ............well is a while at least...

    Bummer.

    (seeing that in the new designs makes me go hmmmmmmmmm)

    Contact Ellsworth directly and see what they say. I think you still fall in the lifetime warranty if it's 4 years old.

  3. #3
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    That is where my 2001 broke. Call ellsworth and send it in for a replacement.
    My 06 is awesome. It is amazing how much stiffer this frame is than the 01.

    Mike

  4. #4
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    Thanks guys, I'll start by giving them a ring on Monday and go from there.

  5. #5
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    you have to contact...

    your local bike shop, or the shop where you purchased it... i believe you will have to pay for some upgrades, as the rear end including the rocker will not fit the new front triangle... UNLESS your bike is 2003.5 design which is the same as 2004 and later - if this is the case - you will get a new front triangle and you just move everything else from your old frame...

    your local shop will ship the frame to Ellsworth, and you will have to pay for shipping back and forth...

    let us know how it goes... good luck...




    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC
    Seat tube broke just above the derailer. Is this a common failure point?

    Did a little bunny hop at the top of a climb because I knew my buddies were waiting for me just on the other side. Luckily I really had very little speed and got maybe 6 inch's of air when it happened because it could have been pretty catastrophic if I had been charging a downhill. Clearly the area had be stressed already I guess over time and this just broke the camels back.

    This has been a great bike, after 4 years I still loved the way it handled and cannot wait to replace it. Got a couple questions for folks how may have gone thru this before.

    Dug up my original purchase receipt (Out of State Bike shop) and Warranty card. Should I contact Ellsworth directly via Phone or e-mail or find some dealer in my area (Even though I did not purchase it thru them).

    What can I expect as far as how Ellsworth will handle this?

    Thanks in advance
    Jeff




    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...=1#post2898898

  6. #6
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    ells is not handling warranty

    calls anymore... ells deals with local shop for warranty replacements...

    it doesnt hurt to contact ellsworth as well, though...




    Quote Originally Posted by Mac Attack II
    That is where my 2001 broke. Call ellsworth and send it in for a replacement.
    My 06 is awesome. It is amazing how much stiffer this frame is than the 01.

    Mike

  7. #7
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    Just got off the phone with Ellsworth.

    Osokolo you are correct they want me to take it by a Ellsworth LBS. Luckly I have one near me.

  8. #8
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    So let me tell you about my friend and his Specialized Ground Control that he bought in 1995...

    In 1999, the frame had a hairline crack at the dropout. Specialized replaced it with any frame he wanted. He got an Enduro.

    This year, he found a crack in that Enduro...Specialized replaced it with any frame he wanted. He now has a 2007 SJ Pro from the original purchase of the 1995 Ground Control which was covered under lifetime warranty, just like your 2003 Ellsworth Truth.

    Hopefully, your warranty issue will be resolved satisfactorily for you. I know what I'd expect.

  9. #9
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    Yep Specialized is top notch, I've busted two of there frames from them no questions asked and was back riding within the week, still have the old hardtail as a backup bike.

    Dropped the Truth off at a LBS, they were very helpful and did not give me any grieve because I did not purchase it from them. I'm hopefull I'll be treated right, I've always talked up this bike, and hope to be able to do so in the future.

  10. #10
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    you will love your new Truth...

    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC
    Yep Specialized is top notch, I've busted two of there frames from them no questions asked and was back riding within the week, still have the old hardtail as a backup bike.

    Dropped the Truth off at a LBS, they were very helpful and did not give me any grieve because I did not purchase it from them. I'm hopefull I'll be treated right, I've always talked up this bike, and hope to be able to do so in the future.
    Let us know how it goes, i am sure Ells will take care of you...

  11. #11
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    Interesting that the failure occurred right below where the weld and the gusset end.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenske
    Interesting that the failure occurred right below where the weld and the gusset end.
    Why is that interesting?


    I have yet to see a front triangle that broke somewhere else. The interesting part is that it's a post 2001 truth.

  13. #13
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    yeah, it is 2003...

    they had 3:1 ratio on the rocker - more stress on the seat tube...

    2003.5 and newer have 2:1 rocker ratio - less stress on the seat tube...

    and then 2006 and on have redesigned front triangle - wonder if it had anything to do to relieve some of the stress off of the seat tube...


    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    Why is that interesting?


    I have yet to see a front triangle that broke somewhere else. The interesting part is that it's a post 2001 truth.

  14. #14
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    I have an early 2003 purchased in March, so it's the older design I believe.

    Still waiting on Ellsworth to return my LBS calls, they told me they left a couple of messages with them. Guess this will take longer than I hoped it would.

  15. #15
    Art is Resistance
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    Contact Ellsworth directly and see what they say. I think you still fall in the lifetime warranty if it's 4 years old.

    That statement could only exist and make sense in ellworthia.

    Classic!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by djcrb9
    That statement could only exist and make sense in ellworthia.

    Classic!

    Ya!..."Classic"
    Last edited by lidarman; 04-04-2007 at 08:42 PM.

  17. #17
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    "Classic"???

    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    Ya!..."Classic"
    oh yeah... "Classic"...

  18. #18
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    I hoping he will show up and elaborate a little on that comment...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    Why is that interesting?


    I have yet to see a front triangle that broke somewhere else. The interesting part is that it's a post 2001 truth.

    Y is that interesting?

    Well for 1 thing, if the 01s all failed there, why not redesign with a 1 piece gusset that extended to the bottom of the shock mount so that the entire piece was one complete unit?

    Just a thought.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenske
    Y is that interesting?

    Well for 1 thing, if the 01s all failed there, why not redesign with a 1 piece gusset that extended to the bottom of the shock mount so that the entire piece was one complete unit?

    Just a thought.
    And you would mount the derailleur how?

    One of the fundamentals of mechanical engineering is to reduce stress risors. Stress risors, in case you didn't know come from abrupt corners that are placed under stress (they focus force using leverage)...IE the gusset on the 2001 truth. The newer versions relieve that, using normal practices in making a smoother transition to distribute that stress over a longer path length (IE the curved gusset bottom). Well it obviously failed so that was not the solution....well it might be the solution in addition to some other stress relieving mods, say in the head tube area that might reduce the flex on that point, causing enhanced stress on the seat tube....or like Okosolo sez, reduce the leverage ratio.

    Many bike use this geometry..without having the gusset applied to the bottom of the shock mount. I could name names but it's not that hard to see.

    Given modern finite element analysis with solid works plus cosmos, etc, it's easy to model this these days. If it shows red in the picture, add some material somewhere and rerun the calc.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    I hoping he will show up and elaborate a little on that comment...

    Yeah, sure. Sorry it sparked so much confusion. I just remember the days of ellworth's "lifetime" warranty that never seemed to matter, because tony had redesigned a part of the frame, and didn't honor warranties because of this. Never mind that the bike was still a truth, it had some different stuff on it, and therefore the customer would have to buy whatever part had snapped in half on the bike, usually the front triangle.

    Most places, the comment of a bike being 4 years into a lifetime warranty would be redundant at the least, but here it really could be a cause for concern.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by djcrb9
    Yeah, sure. Sorry it sparked so much confusion. I just remember the days of ellworth's "lifetime" warranty that never seemed to matter, because tony had redesigned a part of the frame, and didn't honor warranties because of this. Never mind that the bike was still a truth, it had some different stuff on it, and therefore the customer would have to buy whatever part had snapped in half on the bike, usually the front triangle.

    Most places, the comment of a bike being 4 years into a lifetime warranty would be redundant at the least, but here it really could be a cause for concern.
    Not sure of your use of the word "redundant" here but I must be the exception...and keep in mind I have been a real critic of Ellsworth in the past.

    My history:

    Original bike is Ellsworth truth 2001

    2003: Broke the chainstay--got a new one
    2003: Broke the front triangle--upgraded to an Id--yes I paid some money for the rocker and shock but they warrantied my front triangle.
    2005: Broke the chainstay again -- got a new one.
    2006: When the new asym chainstays came out, I exchanged mine for one.

    That chainstay was sent to me in spring '06, five years after my original bike was purchased.

    There is no doubt any warranty fullfilled with new bike will certainly have terms of the new two year scheme...but if that warranty was before that, I would hope Tony would step up and make due.

    The really sad part here is that I had to exercise this warranty so much, not that the customer service was bad...it was great.

    Turner claims such good CS, but they make such strong bikes, very few people even know how good it is, since they never have to make due on it. I own one of those too! Yes, having to use CS is not a great thing actually--the price of light bikes I guess.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    Not sure of your use of the word "redundant" here but I must be the exception...and keep in mind I have been a real critic of Ellsworth in the past.

    My history:

    Original bike is Ellsworth truth 2001

    2003: Broke the chainstay--got a new one
    2003: Broke the front triangle--upgraded to an Id--yes I paid some money for the rocker and shock but they warrantied my front triangle.
    2005: Broke the chainstay again -- got a new one.
    2006: When the new asym chainstays came out, I exchanged mine for one.

    That chainstay was sent to me in spring '06, five years after my original bike was purchased.

    There is no doubt any warranty fullfilled with new bike will certainly have terms of the new two year scheme...but if that warranty was before that, I would hope Tony would step up and make due.

    The really sad part here is that I had to exercise this warranty so much, not that the customer service was bad...it was great.

    Turner claims such good CS, but they make such strong bikes, very few people even know how good it is, since they never have to make due on it. I own one of those too! Yes, having to use CS is not a great thing actually--the price of light bikes I guess.
    Well, i don't know if you are the exception, but you are definitely an exception from the experiences i've had. I worked in a shop that carried ellsworth, and that was during the infamous 2000-2001 truth. We all know what happened there. I talked to tony on the phone a few times, and he was a jackass each and every single time. I've never met a business owner so rude and completely full of himself. Of course, nothing worthwhile ever got resolved for the 12 or so customers i had that broke their truths, and i got them all on new bikes from different manufacturers.
    I was so fed up with the debacle that i was going to use interbike as my opportunity to confront tony personally, but when i got to his booth, two people were already screaming at him, and there were people waiting behind those two, who also looked pretty peeved. I obviously wasn't alone, and that's when we all started to see the changed ads on his web page, the "unlimited lifetime warranty" get reworded, and all the other mess. I hear tony doesn't talk to shops anymore, and that's a very, very good thing.

    It's good to hear that you've had good customer service from them, but a shame that so many of their bikes have broken for you. At least they've turned over a leaf in one aspect.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    And you would mount the derailleur how?

    One of the fundamentals of mechanical engineering is to reduce stress risors. Stress risors, in case you didn't know come from abrupt corners that are placed under stress (they focus force using leverage)...IE the gusset on the 2001 truth. The newer versions relieve that, using normal practices in making a smoother transition to distribute that stress over a longer path length (IE the curved gusset bottom). Well it obviously failed so that was not the solution....well it might be the solution in addition to some other stress relieving mods, say in the head tube area that might reduce the flex on that point, causing enhanced stress on the seat tube....or like Okosolo sez, reduce the leverage ratio.

    Many bike use this geometry..without having the gusset applied to the bottom of the shock mount. I could name names but it's not that hard to see.

    Given modern finite element analysis with solid works plus cosmos, etc, it's easy to model this these days. If it shows red in the picture, add some material somewhere and rerun the calc.

    Damn dude, if you tried just a little bit you could almost come off as a condecending A$$hole!

  25. #25
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    well at least he comes up with something that makes sense compared to your one piece gusset that extends to the bottom shock mount......... your silly suggestion merited given response...

    you need to spend a bit more time on this board before you could utilize name calling option... just a suggestion...

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