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  1. #1
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    Moment tastes dirt, and begs for more.

    I rode my Moment on portions of the Virgin River Rim Trail and on the Lowder Ponds/Sidney Valley Trail yesterday. Got chased off the VRR by a thunderstorm, but the weather at Brian Head was better. Saw elk, deer and marmots. Rode 20 miles at 8500 - 11000 feet elevation with 2800 feet of climbing. Kicked my butt. I haven't been to high elevations much this year.

    The DHX shock has a LOT of adjustment range. Even though I was undersprung, I was able to completely eliminate bottoming with the bottom-out adjustment. I had about 170 psi in the boost valve and I didn't come close to using the full travel, so I decreased the pressure to 150 with still no bottoming.

    I finished right at twilight. Made it home to find the 600# spring waiting for me. I plan on setting the bottom-out and propedal to minimum. I'll then set the sag, adjust the boost valve (which controls compression) and rebound. Last, I'll mess with the bottom-out and propedal settings.

    Ride quality was great. It'll take quite a bit of playing around to run through the range of adjustment in the shock. I'll post again when I've got the shock figured out.

    The first two pictures are from the VRR, the next 2 from Brian Head.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    {Principal Skinner} Hmm. Whoever did this is in very deep trouble.
    {Martin} And a sloppy speller too. The preferred spelling of 'wiener' is w - i - e - n - e - r, although 'e - i' is an acceptable ethnic variant.

  2. #2
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    Unbelievably Sweet!

    Bob those photos are so pristine and beautiful, thanks for sharing! (Someone is living good)

    We hope you are enjoying the ride. Cheers!

  3. #3
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    DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That bike is soooooo awesome!!!! thanks for the pics!! enjoy the ride bro!!

  4. #4
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    That bike looks sweet. Enjoy the ride!!!!

    Great background pics, too. I'll assume that there wasn't a couch up there to lean the bike against.

  5. #5
    Lay off the Levers
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    Y'know it really kills me when people have fantastic bikes and superb scenic trails to ride them on. You could have at least posted a picture of a Pacific, or leaned the Moment up against your garage door!

    Congrats! Enjoy, enjoy enjoy.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  6. #6
    I lean like a cholo!
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    Gorgeous!

    Road a nine mile portion of the VRR trail a week and a half ago. The altitude just about killed me, but the views like you posted kept me pedaling. The whole time I was climbing I was wishing I was on a XC bike (or at least a granny ring) instead of my 40lbs Joker. Of course the Joker was awesome at Brianhead and on Dark Hollow / Paradise Canyon. Absolutely stunning, and the weather was perfect.
    Thanks for the pics. I'll post mine up when I get my film developed.
    ...and I used my strength to rip my blouse...

  7. #7
    not so super...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob the Wheelbuilder
    I rode my Moment on portions of the Virgin River Rim Trail and on the Lowder Ponds/Sidney Valley Trail yesterday. Got chased off the VRR by a thunderstorm, but the weather at Brian Head was better. Saw elk, deer and marmots. Rode 20 miles at 8500 - 11000 feet elevation with 2800 feet of climbing. Kicked my butt. I haven't been to high elevations much this year.

    The DHX shock has a LOT of adjustment range. Even though I was undersprung, I was able to completely eliminate bottoming with the bottom-out adjustment. I had about 170 psi in the boost valve and I didn't come close to using the full travel, so I decreased the pressure to 150 with still no bottoming.

    I finished right at twilight. Made it home to find the 600# spring waiting for me. I plan on setting the bottom-out and propedal to minimum. I'll then set the sag, adjust the boost valve (which controls compression) and rebound. Last, I'll mess with the bottom-out and propedal settings.

    Ride quality was great. It'll take quite a bit of playing around to run through the range of adjustment in the shock. I'll post again when I've got the shock figured out.

    The first two pictures are from the VRR, the next 2 from Brian Head.
    Incredible looking bike and the view is nice too! Since you seem to be the DHX guinea pig be sure to let us know what you think so I can want one even more.
    Nothing to see here.

  8. #8
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    And comparrisons to other similar bikes you've had etc.

  9. #9
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    Interim Report

    I feel like I have the shock about 80% figured out. The bike weighs exactly 32 pounds with the new XTR cranks and the heavier coil. Here are my current DHX shock settings after 5 rides and about 80 miles:

    1. 600# spring with 1 turn of preload = exactly 25% sag. I'll leave this alone.
    2. Boost valve (compression) 120 psi. I might go slightly lower.
    3. Rebound 7th click from full counterclockwise (first position counts as click 1). This is perfect for the current compression settings. I've found that rebound sometimes needs to be readjusted when compression damping is changed.
    4. Bottom out 1/2 turn from minimum (out of 3 turns). I may go lower on this, too. With the proper spring rate, I don't need much bottom out protection. I imagine I could go quite a bit lower on compression damping and then use more bottom out, but I like the linear feel of the coil shock and don't want to mess with this too much. This setting was extremely useful when I had the wrong spring.
    5. Propedal 10 clicks from full counterclockwise. There is a large range here, too (I think 17 clicks). I need to mess with this more, but the current setting is very good.

    My Turner RFX was my all time favorite bike. The big difference between it and the Moment is probably the platform shock. With the bottom out and propedal settings off, the bike is just as I remembered my RFX: stable, plush, confidence inspiring, and despite the weight, a climbing fool. Like Bikezilla has said about his 5-spot, just don't stop pedaling and hang on: you'll clear many things you don't think you can. Things are even better than the RFX with the Propedal turned on (RFX had a 1999 Vanilla RC shock). With the Propedal on full strength there seems to be a slight decrease in small bump absorbtion, so I have it set where there is some slight motion when I pedal squares, but it really reduces the wallowing.

    I like the Fox TALAS fork, but it feels a little noodly and inexact in comparison to the back end. I may still go for a 6 inch through axle fork in the future, but I ride with my weight pretty far back and I'm not sure I need to change. I'll be going to Gooseberry in the next few days and the square edged hits there will tell me a lot.

    My Blur is a completely different animal. I like it for speed, but the coil shock and longer travel make the Moment ride like people covered the terrain with feather pillows in comparison. I haven't measured the bottom bracket yet, but it is definitely higher than the Blur (low BB is the Blur's weakest point for my local rides) and I'd say it's perfect for me. If I can wrangle up a team for the 24H of Moab this year, I plan on using the Blur for my first lap and the Moment for the night time laps. I usually get 4 laps, so by the end of the race, it will be interesting what bike I prefer for the last lap. I think it will probably be the Moment.

    I think the Moment is much more fun than the Blur for my local rides. The plusher suspension, the small bump absorbtion and the sturdy feel are what I want when I'm out to enjoy myself. If I do the Brian Head 100 or 1 day White Rim again, it will be on my Blur because of weight and efficiency.

    I ordered the Blur without riding one. Once I got it, I felt that it was only slightly better than my Turner O2, but I was comparing 4.5 inches of travel on the Blur with 3 inches on the O2. The Blur is a great bike and I plan on keeping it, but if I could have done a month long demo, I probably would have just kept the O2, or moved up to a Turner Burner.

    Overall, I think Ellsworth has hit their target with this bike. I'm glad I have it and would recommend it to anyone who rides the trails I do in Southern Utah. The shock is great, but if you don't like fiddling with its settings, you just might get a headache trying to figure it out.

    I'll post more pictures and my final shock settings in a new thread when I'm through playing with the shock.

    Happy Trails
    {Principal Skinner} Hmm. Whoever did this is in very deep trouble.
    {Martin} And a sloppy speller too. The preferred spelling of 'wiener' is w - i - e - n - e - r, although 'e - i' is an acceptable ethnic variant.

  10. #10
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    O2 vs. Blur

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob the Wheelbuilder
    I ordered the Blur without riding one. Once I got it, I felt that it was only slightly better than my Turner O2, but I was comparing 4.5 inches of travel on the Blur with 3 inches on the O2. The Blur is a great bike and I plan on keeping it, but if I could have done a month long demo, I probably would have just kept the O2, or moved up to a Turner Burner.
    Hmmm... some interesting comments there. I'm considering doing something similar, in that I have an XCE, and I am planning on buying a Blur without riding one (none available for test ride unless I happen to make a trip back to the states before I buy). However, I am still keeping the XCE (at least for now).

    You mentioned that the Blur was only "slightly better than my O2". Can you expand on that a bit? What performance characteristic(s) were you referring to exactly (i.e. overall performance, rear suspension performance, pedaling performance, or ???)?

    What I am looking for (in switching from the XCE to the Blur), is better pedaling performance when out of the saddle. So, I'm not sure how to interpret your comment. On one hand, if the 4.5" travel Blur is "slightly" better pedaling than the 3" travel O2, that alone is somewhat impressive I suppose. However, on the other hand, I'm not looking for slightly better pedaling performance, I'm looking for significantly better. I am hoping that I will get near hardtail like pedaling performance out of the saddle, and still have the benefit of 4.5" of travel the rest of the time. Am I hoping for too much?

    I figure I could get fairly close to the pedaling performance of the O2 with my XCE, by going to a stable platform shock of some type, and running a bit less sag. I am hoping the Blur will be significantly better in this (one) particular area. No?

  11. #11
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    How does the boost valve and propedal adj. differ? Seems like either one would handle the top of the stroke, while the bottom out adj. handles the bottom of the stroke. Just curious.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tullebukk
    Hmmm... some interesting comments there. I'm considering doing something similar, in that I have an XCE, and I am planning on buying a Blur without riding one (none available for test ride unless I happen to make a trip back to the states before I buy). However, I am still keeping the XCE (at least for now).

    You mentioned that the Blur was only "slightly better than my O2". Can you expand on that a bit? What performance characteristic(s) were you referring to exactly (i.e. overall performance, rear suspension performance, pedaling performance, or ???)?

    What I am looking for (in switching from the XCE to the Blur), is better pedaling performance when out of the saddle. So, I'm not sure how to interpret your comment. On one hand, if the 4.5" travel Blur is "slightly" better pedaling than the 3" travel O2, that alone is somewhat impressive I suppose. However, on the other hand, I'm not looking for slightly better pedaling performance, I'm looking for significantly better. I am hoping that I will get near hardtail like pedaling performance out of the saddle, and still have the benefit of 4.5" of travel the rest of the time. Am I hoping for too much?

    I figure I could get fairly close to the pedaling performance of the O2 with my XCE, by going to a stable platform shock of some type, and running a bit less sag. I am hoping the Blur will be significantly better in this (one) particular area. No?
    The best pedaling while standing bike I've ridden was the Maverick, but I felt it wasn't supple at all: it felt more like a softtail than a real full suspension bike. The Blur pedals a little better than my O2 did, but it has a 5th element (platform) shock. The Blur rides a llittle more plush than the O2, but it didn't feel like there was 1.5 times the travel, just a "touch" more. It feels like a lot less than my 5" RFX or 6" Moment.

    The VPP design should pedal more efficiently with an equivalent shock, but I feel that my Turners and Moment ride better and more consistently overall (power on or off). There's a rough section at the end of a local racecourse that I can pedal over at full speed on my 4 bar bikes, the Blur is quite a bit more jarring, and the Maverick felt like a hardtail on this stretch. Climbing hairy stuff under power is another area where the 4 bar bikes outshine the Blur. I don't know if chain tension makes the suspention less effective or what, but I swear the Moment has claws when I'm climbing.

    If you could get a platform shock on your XCE, I think you'd probably like it at least as much as the Blur. My wife had an XCE that we sold after she rode my daughter's Blur and pronounced it satisfactory. After a few more rides on the Blur, she said she wanted her XCE back (the buyer wasn't going to sell it back). She's now riding an Ellsworth Truth that she feels rides very much like her XCE did. It has an AVA propedal air shock and is about a pound lighter with discs than the XCE was with v-brakes. Riding around here has lots of sharp edged hits and edges: I hit the chainrings and pedals a lot on the Blur. If you ride buffed singletrack without big transient-type hits or ground clearance issues, the Blur would be a great bike. The 4 bar / Horst link bikes are better in the rougher stuff in my opinion.

    If you have the Vanilla RC, look at the PUSH industries modification. Also you should see if the DHX 5.0 will fit. I can dial it so my Moment's standing pedaling performance is at least equal to the Blur's with that shock.

    If you're like me, you won't dislike the Blur, but you won't feel like it is a real step up either. Email me if you have any more questions.
    {Principal Skinner} Hmm. Whoever did this is in very deep trouble.
    {Martin} And a sloppy speller too. The preferred spelling of 'wiener' is w - i - e - n - e - r, although 'e - i' is an acceptable ethnic variant.

  13. #13
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    Boost and propedal.

    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    How does the boost valve and propedal adj. differ? Seems like either one would handle the top of the stroke, while the bottom out adj. handles the bottom of the stroke. Just curious.
    Boost adjusts the compression damping throughout the shock stroke and the propedal decreases the movement from small initial inputs, decreasing pedaling "bob." The two do seem to interact somewhat, so tuning involves small changes in one with corrections in the other, then back and forth, etc. To make things even more complicated, the bottom out adjustment changes the linearity of the compression damping with more ramp up at the end of the stroke. I'm actually having fun with this, but I think the massive adjustability will drive some people crazy.
    {Principal Skinner} Hmm. Whoever did this is in very deep trouble.
    {Martin} And a sloppy speller too. The preferred spelling of 'wiener' is w - i - e - n - e - r, although 'e - i' is an acceptable ethnic variant.

  14. #14
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    Good report there Bob,
    Bit mind boggling all that adjustability though.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob the Wheelbuilder
    The best pedaling while standing bike I've ridden was the Maverick, but I felt it wasn't supple at all: it felt more like a softtail than a real full suspension bike.
    Thanks for the info. Several people have recommended the Maverick. I suspect it must be a pretty good bike, but the proprietary nature of the rear suspension has kept me from getting interested (to this point anyway).


    Quote Originally Posted by Bob the Wheelbuilder
    The Blur pedals a little better than my O2 did, but it has a 5th element (platform) shock. The Blur rides a little more plush than the O2, but it didn't feel like there was 1.5 times the travel, just a "touch" more. It feels like a lot less than my 5" RFX or 6" Moment.
    Yep, I suspect it's pretty tough to tell how much of the pedaling difference is due to the 5th element. Probably a significant amount, I would guess.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bob the Wheelbuilder
    The VPP design should pedal more efficiently with an equivalent shock, but I feel that my Turners and Moment ride better and more consistently overall (power on or off). There's a rough section at the end of a local racecourse that I can pedal over at full speed on my 4 bar bikes, the Blur is quite a bit more jarring, and the Maverick felt like a hardtail on this stretch. Climbing hairy stuff under power is another area where the 4 bar bikes outshine the Blur. I don't know if chain tension makes the suspension less effective or what, but I swear the Moment has claws when I'm climbing.

    If you could get a platform shock on your XCE, I think you'd probably like it at least as much as the Blur. My wife had an XCE that we sold after she rode my daughter's Blur and pronounced it satisfactory. After a few more rides on the Blur, she said she wanted her XCE back (the buyer wasn't going to sell it back). She's now riding an Ellsworth Truth that she feels rides very much like her XCE did. It has an AVA propedal air shock and is about a pound lighter with discs than the XCE was with v-brakes. Riding around here has lots of sharp edged hits and edges: I hit the chainrings and pedals a lot on the Blur.
    I'm definitely keeping the XCE for now. I plan on leaving it setup as more of a rough terrain trail bike, and setting up the Blur for smoother trails.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bob the Wheelbuilder
    If you ride buffed singletrack without big transient-type hits or ground clearance issues, the Blur would be a great bike. The 4 bar / Horst link bikes are better in the rougher stuff in my opinion.
    I would say that I spend at least 50% of my time on paved and gravel roads. There was a time when I looked for the roughest, most technical trail I could find. However, lately I find myself doing just the opposite. I find myself gravitating toward faster, smoother trails (old age setting in, I think). It's starting to get harder and harder for me to justify riding a bike setup for rough trails.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob the Wheelbuilder
    If you have the Vanilla RC, look at the PUSH industries modification. Also you should see if the DHX 5.0 will fit. I can dial it so my Moment's standing pedaling performance is at least equal to the Blur's with that shock.
    Yep. Thanks for the suggestion. It's on my wish list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob the Wheelbuilder
    If you're like me, you won't dislike the Blur, but you won't feel like it is a real step up either.
    Another reason I'm keeping the XCE for now. I'm just not sure that I will like it better.


    Thanks again for the info. Your Moment looks great, by the way. I hope you enjoy it!

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