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  1. #1
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    Moment: is the geometry right? + frame weight

    Hi everybody, I'm really interested in buying this bike.

    A very big doubt I have is regarding the geometry claimed in the Ellsworth website, particularly it is declared a 67.8 HA for a 495mm A2C fork. If this is true, it would mean that with a 160mm fork (usually A2C is 545mm) you will slack your HA of roughly additional 2 degrees that looks a bit too much for me. Can you clarify? (on MBA it is reported a 67.8 HA with a Fox 36)

    Furthermore, does anybody have weighted a Medium frame with a DHXA air?

    Thx for your reply.
    Last edited by crips; 01-31-2008 at 11:25 PM.

  2. #2
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    No but I can weigh my large tomorrow if you need it.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjcools
    No but I can weigh my large tomorrow if you need it.
    Thanks, it would be better than nothing

  4. #4
    mda
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    My late 2005 medium moment weighs 6.27 without a shock. The DHX Air I fitted in 2006 weighed 1.07 including bolts and reducers.

  5. #5
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    The Path bike shop weighed a '07 Med w/dhx air and it was 7.71#s. The '08 is likey the same since there were no changes from '07 to '08. My '05 with a dhx coil was 8.35#s.
    The coil is a way better ride. Get a light wheelset to offset the extra bulk.

  6. #6
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    That HA has to be off. There are no 140mm shocks that I know of under 500 a2c. In order to balance the moment, you'd need at least 140mm.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharacterZero
    That HA has to be off. There are no 140mm shocks that I know of under 500 a2c. In order to balance the moment, you'd need at least 140mm.
    I agree with the fact that at least a 140mm fork is required, but how much would the HA be with a 160mm fork? 67,8 or slacker?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by crips
    I agree with the fact that at least a 140mm fork is required, but how much would the HA be with a 160mm fork? 67,8 or slacker?
    Assuming you choose a RS Lyrik (545mm A2C at full 160mm setting) for the moment, you can approximate about .5* in HA slackening with each 10mm of A2C height. That would putcher moment at about 65.3* HA from my calculations.

    Someone else with more knowledge of the moment should chime in, I really know nothing about it - I have found that HA slackening approximation to hold up pretty well in general.

    Best would be to have someone measure that HA with a fork on there for you.

  9. #9
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    Another approximation is 1" = 1, however probably I was not so clear in my post. I have noted a big difference between:
    1. Ellsworth website: HA=67,8 with a 495mm a2c fork
    2. MBA february review: HA=67,8 with a 545mm a2c fork (Fox 36 Van)
    So my question is: who is right?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by crips
    Another approximation is 1" = 1, however probably I was not so clear in my post. I have noted a big difference between:
    1. Ellsworth website: HA=67,8 with a 495mm a2c fork
    2. MBA february review: HA=67,8 with a 545mm a2c fork (Fox 36 Van)
    So my question is: who is right?
    Crips, the conversion between inches and mm:
    1 inch = 25.4 millimeters
    so, yes, 1"=~1*

    Just so you know. Most forks don't come with A2C in inches anyways.

    Besides, you are italian and totally disregard the silly "inch" system, right?

  11. #11
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    Spoke with the shop building my moment and they weighed it for me, 7.2 lbs for the large with the dhx air.

  12. #12
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    Building up an '06 Moment. Small frame, DHX Air, weighed with King HS upper and lower cups, thomson 410 setback post, salsa clamp, inner tube chainstay protector.

    8.2 lbs

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharacterZero
    Crips, the conversion between inches and mm:
    1 inch = 25.4 millimeters
    so, yes, 1"=~1*

    Just so you know. Most forks don't come with A2C in inches anyways.

    Besides, you are italian and totally disregard the silly "inch" system, right?
    Right!
    Anyway, they both give a rough idea (and they are both used), infact 10mm=0,5 means 1"=1,25 so there is only a difference of 1/4.

    Quote Originally Posted by CharacterZero
    Assuming you choose a RS Lyrik (545mm A2C at full 160mm setting) for the moment, you can approximate about .5* in HA slackening with each 10mm of A2C height. That would putcher moment at about 65.3* HA from my calculations.
    So, in your opinion, the HA reported in the Ellsworth website is the correct one!

  14. #14
    bi_ke
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    My '07 Medium Moment w/ DHX-A (and seat collar) weighed 7.25 pound on my shop scale.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by crips
    So, in your opinion, the HA reported in the Ellsworth website is the correct one!
    Nope, there is no way that they are spec'ing Moments with 495mm forks, which is what the site says.
    Show me a 140mm fork that is 495mm or under.

  16. #16
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    07 Large Moment frame weight

    8.65 lbs for my 07 large.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  17. #17
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    noone can answer the angle question??!!

    seriously, it is an AM bike, I would consider the HA a much bigger issue than a pound on the frame!

  18. #18
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    I guess I am a liar cause I checked the weight again and it is 7.6lbs not 7.2.

    I have been telling people it was 7.2lbs and now i am devistated. i will never speak up again.
    I like to ride Bikes. This might be turning into an obsession, not sure?

    www.cyclng.com

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharacterZero
    noone can answer the angle question??!!

    seriously, it is an AM bike, I would consider the HA a much bigger issue than a pound on the frame!
    I'm willing to bet that Ellsworth can, that is if you can get a hold of them. Try an email or phone call.

    I would be shocked if the HA on the website was correct. 67.8 with a 545 AC height sounds right and really fits the Moment's intended market and use. I honestly don't think TE would put such a slack HA on the Moment without gusseting the head tube like crazy and getting ready for a lot of warranty issues. I don't think the Rogue even has that slack of a HA.
    "I didn't even use crutches when I broke my leg!" - Aquaholic

  20. #20
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    Light wieght is great and all but I don't mind a frame that weighs 8 #'s if it means it will handle the abuse. If I really cared about light wieght I'd buy a EPI!

  21. #21
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    I would assume that the figures stated on the MTBA article are correct - 67.8 with Fox 36.

    My 07 large feels spot on with that setup - it certainly isn't slacker than it should be. Whatever the numbers end up being you should feel confident fitting any of the current 160 travel forks for the type of riding the Moment is designed for.

    My large 07 with 08 DHXA = 7.7lb - Having recently tried it with a DHXC I would get the coil.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinch
    I'm willing to bet that Ellsworth can, that is if you can get a hold of them. Try an email or phone call.
    I sent an email to both Ellsworth and MBA (ask RC), but no one replyed. Anyway I am glad to know you think that 67.8 HA will be with a 160mm forks

    If someone with such a fork might measure the HA I think that would be the final confirmation.

  23. #23
    mda
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    The Ellsworth website gives a static fork length of 20.5"(495mm). However, 20.5" is actually 520.7mm which is RS Pike territory.

    20.5"(520.7mm) makes more sense than 495mm. A Fox 36 would then slacken the HA from 67.8 to about 66.6.

    I agree, it would be great to get a definitive answer from Ellsworth on this head angle issue. Not just for the 2008 moment frames but also the previous versions to assist those owners looking to change their forks, or just have a better understanding of what HA they're currently running.

    I think the only thing we can be fairly certain about is that the original moments had a HA of 69 with a 125mm fork / 495mm axle to crown. The 2006 brochure is where it appeared to change to a 67.8 HA, but still apparently running a 125mm fork. This is where the confusion begins.

    I don't think we should assume that it's currently 67.8 with a Fox 36 / 545mm axle to crown as this is clearly not what the website is stating.

  24. #24
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    BB height as well

    I emailed Ellsworth about two months ago on this very topic with no reply. I would be interested in not only the HA but also the BB height. My concern is it was originally designed around a shorter fork (but in a time where 69 degrees was par for the course on a trail bike) and the natural progression in the AC on the forks slackened the head angle concurrently to match the demand for the slacker angles. Having said this, allowing the longer forks to change the head angle without adjusting other aspects of the geometry could lead to a higher than desired BB. Could be off here though?

    Does anyone know what the BB height would be as well with a 545mm fork on it?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mda
    The Ellsworth website gives a static fork length of 20.5"(495mm). However, 20.5" is actually 520.7mm which is RS Pike territory.
    Good spot! I focused on the mm measurement, probably 520.7 mm make more sense (as far as I know a Pike has 517mm a2c)

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