Moment with 5" travel possible?
I have my Moment built up with a 6" coil rear shock, and was wondering if it is possible to replace the shock with a 5" air shock? Also wondering whether a 4" fork would work on it.
I hope nobody has my address, the above could get you lynched . Trying to save money for this year, and consider building up a full bike for next year, so thinking swapping parts may be the way to go.
I currently have a burly setup on my Moment, and am hoping to lighten the weight and tune the suspension for XC endurance racing. The thought here is that I could transfer the parts to a Truth next year when budget gets a little better. I would have to eat the cost of the shock, cause the Truth only takes 4", but hoping other parts would be transferrable.
The Moment performs very well, and I'm a bit concerned about messing with the suspension. Would I be better off with a 6" air shock to ensure geometry is as intended, or would there possibly be a benefit from weight and / or stiffness with a 5" air shock?
I just gave up on my desire for the Evolve, right now I'm torn whether I want to transfer parts to save money, or whether I should just get a complete Truth.
Does anybody know the comparative weight of Moment vs Truth? I ride an 18" Moment. Thanks.
Not sure your goal but what you need is a rear shock with the same i2i and less stroke. Hard to find, I'm sure. But if you go with a non-piggy air shock, it will ramp up and kinda limit your travel--effectively giving you less travel....just set it with minimal sag and lots of compression damping if you can. Get a 7.875x2.0
The fork will work but really steepen your head angle and affect steering. The moment has 69 degrees
head angle so it won't be too much maybe set it to 70+ degrees worst case.
But really, not sure your goal, you can ride a 6" travel bike and make it feel firm just by firming up the suspension...a feebie.
Truth frames approach the 5 lb mark. I think moments are around 7 lbs.
Another scenario is to sell what you have and buy a truth...or something else.
Lyon King has 5.5" Moment and rocks at 27 lbs.
Hey Ken, Jim Lyon set up his Moment with an RP23 shock and racing kit. He's right at 27 but could lighten up with racing tires. I don't see how you can get it lighter and would agree with Rich, you may just wanna go to a diff frame. Might wanna check with Jim on his build otherwise, he's got a Fox Talas (older style) and there are lighter forks around too. Msg me direct if you don't have Jim's address & I can forward...Paul
Thanks a lot Rich and Paul! I know Jim's email address, so I contacted him offlist.
The purpose of the conversion is that I am doing Transrockies race with EnduroDoug. I'm not worried about the technical parts of the race at all, so a stiffer lighter bike would help a lot. The geometry of the Moment is quite agressive, in my opinion, so after much debate I decided I don't need a second bike, rather a lighter one. The difference in head angle is something I'm glad was mentioned, I'm hoping steering will not be a factor.
I'm making a list of current setup of the bike and comparing side by side the alternative components. Just starting, but the dimensions that Rich gave will help.
Ignore my comments about the Truth. It will only muddy the waters. I need to make my component selection based on what is best for the Moment, with no compromise for a future frame.
I used to run a 7.875 x 2.0 air shock on my large moment along with a 125 mm Talas for the fork and with xc wheels . It was light enough for me( 28 lbs.) to ride it pretty fast and burly enough for me not to worry that much about it . Not a bad set up , although I got bored and ended up beefing my moment up with a coil shock and a longer travel fork.
I am now using a 36 talas , I tried running it on the low travel setting of 100 mm and I personally prefer just running it at 130 mm , the bike felt better at 130 climbing compared to the 100mm setting .
If you are going to go with an air shock in the rear to get 5.3 inches , maybe a 130 to 140 mm fork would be ideal .
Time is not a road.
What's to think that 5" of travel is better than 6"? I'd agree that the coil shock is just a boat anchor for endurance riding, but you could put a long stroke air shock on the bike, not affect the geometry a bit and save the weight you're looking for. Rich is right, it's about the quality of travel, not quantity. The bike will ride effectively with a 130/140mm fork, like say the new Fox stuff or a RS Revelation.
Personally, if I was going to do a long race like that, I'd want a simple bike, maybe a 29" HT because of the complexity of FS bikes, the availability of parts and serviceablity "off the beaten path" might not be that great. Even a 29"er might be difficult to service considering that it's still a niche market and not all shops would carry the parts. But then again, getting one of those could be difficult if you don't have the budget for it, since you can't just change out frames, you'd need wheels and a fork to match it.
In your situation, I'd see if anyone wanted to trade frames or see if I could sell the Moment frame and find a used Truth.
Here's mine with an RP23 and Fox Vanilla 140:
I have Evolve frames coming in today; sounds like a 29er would be the way to go...we carry a full compliment of parts and acc. for 29er HT and FS bikes including forks and high end wheelsets; in stock. I also have an '05 20" Truth frame in stock at a good price...e-mail me if you need anything.
Ken's teammate for TR here, just chiming in to say that I appreciate all the advice everyone is giving him. We were both considering the Evolve (I even preordered one) then decided to go for a Mooto-X YBB instead and now we're just concerned about not having a 14 pound discrepancy between our bikes since we have to keep within 2 minutes of one another at all times. Ken's a really strong rider and does plenty of epic climbs even with that "boat anchor" under him. I imagine a lighter fork, an air shock, and some zippier wheels (maybe less burley stem and bars too?) would get him down to the 30 pound mark.
You guys rock!
The Dude Abides
Originally Posted by EnduroDoug
Weight savings really come in only a few places: frame, fork, wheels, tires and cranks. Outside of that, you're talking grams instead of pounds. I agree with the others that reducing the travel will not do anything but mess with the bike's intended geometry. And honestly, the best pedaling bike I've ever ridden is Ellsworth's Rogue. It pedals every bit as well as a Truth, except it absorbs so much more that staying in the saddle and cranking takes on a whole new meaning. So in that arena, I agree with Chad and would say get a properly sized RP23 to save weight and geometry.
When it comes to the fork, again, you really shouldn't mess with the geometry too much. I also have a Moment, and I run a 36 Talas (100 to 150 mm). I've found that the 100 mm setting really doesn't help much unless its a really steep climb. Otherwise the steering gets kinda funky. So find the lightest 5" fork you can. Pace is a company from the UK that sells the lightest long travel forks I've seen. They have carbon fiber lowers, very bling. A 5" or 6" fork runs like 3.5lbs. They also have a travel adjust system similar to Marzocchi, where you flip a switch and the fork will drop in height like 60 mm. QBP is the US importer, so availabilty should be no problem.
Now the real weight savings: wheels. Rotating weight is huge, mega huge. It acts double since its mass you move with you, and mass you have to rotate. With that said, rims and nipples (and to some degree spokes) are where you want to stay light. The hubs aren't as big of a deal. But you also have to consider durability. If you are doing a serious endurance race, you don't want to have wheels that will taco half way. My friend ran American Classics this year and they are already cashed, and he's a 160lb racer. Just too light to handle the abuse. So if you are going to build a light wheelset, find a light rim, aluminum nipples, and mid-weight spokes (for strength). Or just buy a set of Industry 9's and impress all your friends.
Tires (and to some degree tubes) are also a big deal. Tire weights have a huge range, and you may not realize how much weight you are pushing around. The lightest tires are around 500g, your average all mountain around 800g, and serious freeride/dh tires are 1200-1500g. 1000g = 2.2lbs. If you compare the all mountain to the racing, thats 300g per tire, so 600g = 1.32lbs! Dats allata weight! But just like the wheels, you can't forget durability. Racing tires are like tubes with bumps on them, they won't hold up to much. My recommendation is to find a 600g tire, around 2.0". WTB has a good weight to volume, but have really meager knobs. In a trans-mountain race, I would think a little less weight and rolling resistance has priority over a little less traction.
Lastly, cranks also have a large weight range. You probably already know this and have really light cranks. I've gone from XT, to Race Face Next LP, to FSA K-Force carbon and durability has never been an issue. And to be frank, I feel its very hard to beat the XT cranks. When you compare cost, weight, and durabilty, they just simply can't be beat.
Everything else is just a wash. Yeah, if you get the lightest stem, and the lightest post, the lightest cassette, etc, you may end up saving a pound. But you'll be out $1k. And chances are you already have some decent stuff (I mean come on, you're on an Ellsworth). I had a friend who once moved his grips from his trail bike to his racing bike because they were lighter. Just like booze, know when to say when.
I'm notorious for extensive posts, and this one is no different. But my hope is that my advice helps build the best race bike possible. I've kind of done this examination before, as I once had plans to reate a dual pupose bike by swapping wheels, fork and tires to transform between FR/AM to XC. Never happened, but I've done the research. My one last recommendation would be to run your suspension a little stiff. This was my first year on the Moment, and I do the 24hrs of 9 Mile each year. This year I felt a bit bogged down because there were times when I would just get lost in the suspension. I also partially blame the DHX Air (and my fat arse) for that, so just make sure you know how you want your suspension to behave before you set out. Good luck in your endeavours.
The Dude Abides
One thing to keep in mind here...
You will be participating in a long endurance event, Ken.
Jim Lyon's setup, or one alike, will not necessarily mean it's meant for you.
Jim is a little guy at about a buck forty soaking wet.
And to that, also add the fact that he is a smoother rider.
To give you an idea... I'm not too shabby of a rider, but if I had a bike set up just like Jim's, the comp's likely wouldn't last long with my style of riding.
What I'm getting here is don't get caugh up in the weight weenie games too much. Definitely try to keep it as light as possible, but do not undermine durability when choosing components. Especially in the wheel department.
You should factor in your weight, ability, and application when you shop for these parts.
Good Night, and Good Luck -
"... the only thing we have to fear is fear itself - "