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  1. #1
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    Love the bike. Hate the man.

    I got a good laugh out of all the hate mail regarding Tony E. and the way he runs his business. I agree, I've seen it first hand. Most of my friends were on the former Team Ellsworth downhill team who know Tony personally. Yes, he is like you say. Ego? Is the Pope Catholic? Cheap? Does a bear sh** in the woods? What's to say, they all hate Ellsworth for what it stands for, not the bike. Customer service and quality. Y'know, I had a Fisher Sugar (er'go the sugardare name) and broke that...but the rep replaced it with the Sugar +. Ugh, pogo stick. But they stood behind their product. Hmmm, novel idea. I'm just waiting for the day when my Dare breaks... Irreplaceable cuz... it's 4-years old.

    I've experienced one break on my Dare. I run an 8" rear rotor and the weld broke where the caliper mount is, climbing of all things. That was taken care of in like a week, so, me, personally, haven't been down the road my friends have had, or most of you as well. Friends have had their Id break in the middle of the top and down tubes, break seat stays, and during the second ride of a Truth, a simple unbalanced fall in a switchback corner resulted in a severely bent seat stay. All have had nightmares w/ Tony or the "customer service" getting them replaced, some even going to Tony personally. Ellsworth's tubing has become thiner over time to get that "sub-5 lb frame", so your gonna have breakage. If you by a NEW Ellsworth, just BEWARE, and BE AWARE. Two of us still have the last tube-framed Dares and they are still holding on. One manufacturing error was that I knew of from the beginning (and this is a former "team" bike) was that the seat tube was not straight, so you can't put a long seatpost all the way down without jamming.. I live with it...

    What I can rave about: The bike is fun to freeride. Triples and a long seatpost make it easy to pedal (with the Romic), and I can XC it most of the day. I have an Azonic Saber becuase I like the suspension design (and wanted something that wouldn't break), and it mimics an Id or Truth. Good design. ICT? Blah blah blah. I like rocker designs. I think shock development has made bad designs work, and good ones work better. What I look for is wheel path and chain movement. If anyone pays attention, Ellsworth, Turner, Intense, and Azonic, all have the FSR link. That only represents the pivot under the drop-out that minimizes breaking forces which lets your suspension stay active. That's FSR. Check it out, all the bikes have Specialized's patent sticker. So when you compare an Ellsworth to your FSR, you're comparing two totally different entities. Bikes such as the Bullit, Uzzi SL, and Enduro never really pedaled or climbed very well until shock technology made them do so (I had a 2000 Big Hit). Tony E. designed his bike back in the 90's and it could climb very well before 5th Element, Manitou, or Romic existed. Put an SPV on a Truth and Go Speed Racer, Go.

    (psssst, my honest opinion, buy a TURNER!! if you like Truths or Ids. Dave Turner was the first, and still the best. They stand behind their product, and it is some highest quality zoot stuff) Hope this wasn't too long for ya, but maybe some good stuff will come of it.

  2. #2
    rr
    rr is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by sugardare
    I got a good laugh out of all the hate mail regarding Tony E. and the way he runs his business. I agree, I've seen it first hand. Most of my friends were on the former Team Ellsworth downhill team who know Tony personally. Yes, he is like you say. Ego? Is the Pope Catholic? Cheap? Does a bear sh** in the woods? What's to say, they all hate Ellsworth for what it stands for, not the bike. Customer service and quality. Y'know, I had a Fisher Sugar (er'go the sugardare name) and broke that...but the rep replaced it with the Sugar +. Ugh, pogo stick. But they stood behind their product. Hmmm, novel idea. I'm just waiting for the day when my Dare breaks... Irreplaceable cuz... it's 4-years old.

    I've experienced one break on my Dare. I run an 8" rear rotor and the weld broke where the caliper mount is, climbing of all things. That was taken care of in like a week, so, me, personally, haven't been down the road my friends have had, or most of you as well. Friends have had their Id break in the middle of the top and down tubes, break seat stays, and during the second ride of a Truth, a simple unbalanced fall in a switchback corner resulted in a severely bent seat stay. All have had nightmares w/ Tony or the "customer service" getting them replaced, some even going to Tony personally. Ellsworth's tubing has become thiner over time to get that "sub-5 lb frame", so your gonna have breakage. If you by a NEW Ellsworth, just BEWARE, and BE AWARE. Two of us still have the last tube-framed Dares and they are still holding on. One manufacturing error was that I knew of from the beginning (and this is a former "team" bike) was that the seat tube was not straight, so you can't put a long seatpost all the way down without jamming.. I live with it...

    What I can rave about: The bike is fun to freeride. Triples and a long seatpost make it easy to pedal (with the Romic), and I can XC it most of the day. I have an Azonic Saber becuase I like the suspension design (and wanted something that wouldn't break), and it mimics an Id or Truth. Good design. ICT? Blah blah blah. I like rocker designs. I think shock development has made bad designs work, and good ones work better. What I look for is wheel path and chain movement. If anyone pays attention, Ellsworth, Turner, Intense, and Azonic, all have the FSR link. That only represents the pivot under the drop-out that minimizes breaking forces which lets your suspension stay active. That's FSR. Check it out, all the bikes have Specialized's patent sticker. So when you compare an Ellsworth to your FSR, you're comparing two totally different entities. Bikes such as the Bullit, Uzzi SL, and Enduro never really pedaled or climbed very well until shock technology made them do so (I had a 2000 Big Hit). Tony E. designed his bike back in the 90's and it could climb very well before 5th Element, Manitou, or Romic existed. Put an SPV on a Truth and Go Speed Racer, Go.

    (psssst, my honest opinion, buy a TURNER!! if you like Truths or Ids. Dave Turner was the first, and still the best. They stand behind their product, and it is some highest quality zoot stuff) Hope this wasn't too long for ya, but maybe some good stuff will come of it.
    Truths are not sub 5lb's and Ell. does not license the FSR/Horst link.

  3. #3
    No, that's not phonetic
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    The 5-Spot complies with the ICT patent, but Turner does not license it. The chainline simply tracks the instant center in a different gear than the Ells do. Turner arrived at this configuration empirically many years ago on the RFX. I do not know the date or the date of the issue of the ICT patent. It would be interesting to see how Tony would go after all the bikes on the market that "infringe" on the ICT patent, but that license the FSR patent instead.

    tscheezy
    Last edited by tscheezy; 04-08-2004 at 02:57 PM.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  4. #4
    rr
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    The 5-Spot complies with the ICT patent, but Turner does not license it. The chainline simply tracks the instance center in a different gear than the Ells do. Turner arrived at this configuration empirically many years ago on the RFX. I do not know the date or the date of the issue of the ICT patent. It would be interesting to see how Tony would go after all the bikes on the market that "infringe" on the ICT patent, but that license the FSR patent instead.

    tscheezy
    The Truth and 5 Spot ride very similiar(I've read the Id rides similiar too), the Truth climbs better and the Spot descends better. I think the 5" fork up front has as much to do with it as the 2 bikes rear suspension. After riding the 5 Spot and viewing some pictures, I drew lines thru the pivot points on both bikes and the point where the lines intersect was nearly identical on both.

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