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  1. #1
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    Lightest in the World @ 6lbs. 8 oz.?!!!

    Well, my Ellsworth Epiphany showed up today. I know Ellsworth claims that it's the lightest 5" travel bike in the world. Well, mine comes in at 6lbs. 8 oz. Somehow, I doubt it's the lightest in the world.

    I have seen several posts here with Large frames coming in at 5 1/2 lbs. How can it be so.

    On another note, mine seems to have the aluminum rocker arms. Is that where the weight is coming from? How much does the aluminum add over the magnesium arms?

    When I contacted Ellsworth about this, they claim they no longer offer magnesium arms. They said that once they started manufacturing in Washington they started manufacturing their own arms from stronger and lighter aluminum and a secret material mixed. WOW! pffff!!! I was under the impression that the magnesium rocker arms was a big part of the high price tag on the Epiphany. Is anyone else's '08 Epiphany equipped with the aluminum rockers?

    When I asked where the magnesium arms came from the response was Europe. I'm not sure who I was talking to but I wonder if that was code for China????


    Hmm, anyway, I can't decide to be happy or pissed about the new purchase. Any advise?

  2. #2
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    My 08 Yeti 575 is 6.5 lbs. Maybe Ellsworth should edit their site? They should have cut the price a little if they're using aluminum now. I was going to buy an Epiphany but could muster the courage to spend that kind of coin.

  3. #3
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    I got a pretty god deal on mine but you still want to get what you think you're getting no matter what you pay....

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbell
    I got a pretty god deal on mine but you still want to get what you think you're getting no matter what you pay....
    Yeah no doubt. Seems like Ellsworth is always pulling shenanigans.

  5. #5
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    round and round we go....

    Welcome to the Ellsworth club kbell.

    If you bought the bike bases on the BS, then you should be mad. If you bought it cuz you liked the ride and other reasons, be happy and just ride it..

    ....and remember it next time you buy a bike.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    round and round we go....

    Welcome to the Ellsworth club kbell.

    If you bought the bike bases on the BS, then you should be mad. If you bought it cuz you liked the ride and other reasons, be happy and just ride it..

    ....and remember it next time you buy a bike.
    I'll probably build it and see how it rides. I've considered sending it back. I really don't mind that it weighs 6.5 lbs. so much. I just don't like when a company claims something that isn't true. I've had Ellsworths in the past, I had a pretty good idea of what to expect. I hope the Epiphany rides as well as I think it will. I know Ellsworths pedal well even if they don't live up to other claims. They have always eaten up the terrain as well. 5" of XC type travel should be right up my alley. We'll see.....

  7. #7
    Forgiven
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    I dig my Epiphany........ but if you want wicked light and 5" go with the IBIS mojo SL.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbell
    Well, my Ellsworth Epiphany showed up today. I know Ellsworth claims that it's the lightest 5" travel bike in the world. Well, mine comes in at 6lbs. 8 oz. Somehow, I doubt it's the lightest in the world.

    I have seen several posts here with Large frames coming in at 5 1/2 lbs. How can it be so.

    On another note, mine seems to have the aluminum rocker arms. Is that where the weight is coming from? How much does the aluminum add over the magnesium arms?

    When I contacted Ellsworth about this, they claim they no longer offer magnesium arms. They said that once they started manufacturing in Washington they started manufacturing their own arms from stronger and lighter aluminum and a secret material mixed. WOW! pffff!!! I was under the impression that the magnesium rocker arms was a big part of the high price tag on the Epiphany. Is anyone else's '08 Epiphany equipped with the aluminum rockers?

    When I asked where the magnesium arms came from the response was Europe. I'm not sure who I was talking to but I wonder if that was code for China????


    Hmm, anyway, I can't decide to be happy or pissed about the new purchase. Any advise?

    IMO, if the EPI is no longer equipped with Magnesium Rockers, their price should be lower than their price before when they are still equipped with Mag Rockers.
    I belive that the price of the EPI was a bit high compared to the Moment because of its Magnesium Rocker. Now, since its all aluminum maybe they should give a serious thought on their pricing.

    Sometimes consumer also buys stuff because of how they are advertised and marketed.
    WE as a consumer should always know what are we getting from each product. Revisions & Improvements should be disclosed so not to create doubt on the purchased product.

    Just my own thoughts on this matter.

    Thanks!

  9. #9
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    Kbell- Just Build That Ride And Enjoy Every Moment You're On It. I Believe You Know You Made The Correct Choice In Staying With An Ellsworth. So What If It's A Few Grams More Than What You Thought It Should Be And That The Rocker Are Now Aluminum That Won't Change That Ride You've Come To Love With An Ellsworth.
    I've Upgraded From My Truth To An Epi And I Can't Begin To Tell You How Much I Love It. My Complete Build Puts The Ride At 26 Lbs With The Use Of All The Good Stuff. Besides You Should See All The Attention My Bros And I Get At All Of The Trailheads. Since I Could Never Afford To Buy A Ferrari Of Even A Ducatti This Would Be Its Equal In Cycling.

  10. #10
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    The moment is only $100 less, but wieghs 1 1/2+ #'s more. (coil equiped of course) So if there were to be a price reduction it likely won't be much.

    Also be glad you have the upgraded rockers. The mag. rockers crack. Thats why the upgrade is aluminum. You can always save weight elsewhere. Lighter wheels, cranks, seatpost, stem, bars, tires, saddle, the list goes on.

    Also I haven't seen any NEW ads stating that the EPI is the lightest. Just older articles.

  11. #11
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    Hello
    I receve 2 epiphany last week from ellsworth
    and I have the magnesium rocket

    i will check it with them today
    Ellsworth addict cince 16 years

  12. #12
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    I dont recall the Epi being promoted as the lightest 5 inch bike . If ever they moved to aluminum rockers from magnesium , it is probably an improvement since they learned a lesson from the magnesium rockers cracking , I think even some of the serial numbered ones are now starting to crack.

  13. #13
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    Hmmm took a peek in the Ells website , it is supposed to be the lightest 5.25 inch bike in the world . That may be a gray area, how many bikes are exactly 5.25 inchers ?

    A intense 5.5 FRO , or a Motolite Exogrid , or a Litespeed Niota would probably be lighter than a 6lb , 8oz Epi , but spec wise they are probably not 5.25 inch bikes ( a bit more or a bit less travel ).

    Oh well , I do hope that your Epi rides great and that the rockers dont crack.

  14. #14
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    Yeah, the beefier rocker are probably a blessing in disguise. It may make it more stable/less flexy as well. I have a fairly decent spec for my build. A pretty light wheel set came with the deal so that's a good start. I know Gary Fisher claims to have the lightest 5" trail bike available too. That whacko claimed he invented Mt. Bikes too though. Hell, I thought I did. He probably rides bikes and surfs the web with Al Gore.

  15. #15
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    Yangpei or BOSS ,

    Are the rockers of the Epi and the Moment the same length/ dimension ? only different in material ?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by localboyvv
    Kbell- Just Build That Ride And Enjoy Every Moment You're On It. I Believe You Know You Made The Correct Choice In Staying With An Ellsworth. So What If It's A Few Grams More Than What You Thought It Should Be And That The Rocker Are Now ....
    Hey, what's with the crazy caps?

    Anyway- does Ells use the "weight of frame doesn't include the shock" line that some of the other manufacturers do?
    Since when did the phrase "invest in" come to mean the same as "buy"?

  17. #17
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    Yeah, my Ventana Terremoto came in at 6.66 lbs (sans shock)

    Good luck with that.
    Last edited by CharacterZero; 01-29-2008 at 06:57 AM.

  18. #18
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    That is weird...my moment with DHXair was just right at 6.0....!!!!???
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by On-One
    That is weird...my moment with DHXair was just right at 6.0....!!!!???
    Sorry to call BS on this but the Medium that "THE PATH" bike shop weighed a while back came in @ 7.71#s ( DHX-air) . DO you have a custon XXXXSmall? Are you sure its not an EPI? I NEED proof!

  20. #20
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    I got it broken down right now to sell the frame...so I will try to run by the shop and weigh it. They have one of those ultimate hook scales. I have known to exagerate...but we shall see!

    Mine is an 07 size SM or MD, can't remember which.
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  21. #21
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    yes it's the same, just the material change
    Ellsworth addict cince 16 years

  22. #22
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    kbell,
    I depends on how important that pound is to you. If you're doing a big steel railed comfy seat, generic post/stem, bombproof/heavy wheels, a SRAM cassette, Shimano pedal ...anyway you get the picture... build, then what is a pound? If you are a WW then that pound will haunt you as you're counting grams. Been there done that as they used to say back in the day.

    With that said I own an Evolve and there may be lighter 29er frames out there but I ain't trading.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbell
    On another note, mine seems to have the aluminum rocker arms. Is that where the weight is coming from? How much does the aluminum add over the magnesium arms?
    I believe the weight difference between the rockers is ~150grams. Ellsworth also weighs the frames without shock and maybe even without the bearings. "Frame only" weight as they say.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  24. #24
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    A pound isn't that big of a deal to me. It just when you think you're getting vanilla and lick chocolat it throws you off a little. I guess you have to watch the fine print with some folks.

    I plan to build;

    Frame - Large Nebulad Blue w/Fox R
    Fork - Fox 120 RLC
    HS - King
    Wheels - Crosmax ST
    Tires - Kenda Karma DTC (Stan's Juice)
    FD - XTR (960)
    RD - XO
    Shift - XO
    Cass - 990
    Chain - 990
    Post - Thomson
    Stem - Thomson X4
    Bars - Undecided
    Grips - ODI North Shore
    Seat - WTB Ti Team
    Cranks - XT
    Pedals - Egg Beater SL
    Brakes Juicey 7 (185/160)


    Fairly light build but not over the top. I've experiemented with uberlight weight builds but sometime they just don't ride as well and aren't as much fun. I like to add weight where I think there will be a significant performance increase. I like stiff whereever I can get it and light where ever I can afford it.

    Hopfully this won't come in too much over 26lbs.

    Any thoughts?

  25. #25
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
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    Quote Originally Posted by road dirt
    I dig my Epiphany........ but if you want wicked light and 5" go with the IBIS mojo SL.
    Funny you say that road dirt. I too love my Epiphany but I ride my Mojo almost all the time. The Epiphany is starting to take a back seat to the Ibis
    Vote with your feet.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pachaven
    Funny you say that road dirt. I too love my Epiphany but I ride my Mojo almost all the time. The Epiphany is starting to take a back seat to the Ibis
    Did you just say the Mojo is more efficient/better than the Epi?

    Kidding aside, perhaps you can start a thread comparing the two. That would be good info.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  27. #27
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    Epi Weight

    I believe my 07 Epi Large was 5.8 or thereabouts. Fox Float RP23. I love mine!

  28. #28
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    The serial number on my "smoke" Epi is 08. It weighs 5.85 lbs with Fox RP23 shock on my Ultimate digital scale. Mine has the magnesium rocker arms. This includes the seat collar.

    They should lower prices if the magnesium rockers are not included. Those things are beautiful.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOSS
    yes it's the same, just the material change
    If the new Epis are now in Alluminum , without shocks mounted they ought to be close to the weight of a Moment frame ( assuming Epi is lighter by some butted tubing, whereas Moment is straight tubed/beefier ?am guessing ) With the weight advantage over the next heavier/ longer travel model diminished , would it make sense to have two very similar weighted bikes ? I would understand the rationale of getting an Epi if there would be a two or three pound difference but less than that I would go upsize ( large fries ) .


    If i were Ells , I would offer the Moment in two varieties Moment light - with an high volume 2.25 stroke RP23 shock and a 69 degree headtube (like the 04 to 06 model) and maybe a Moment regular ( current production with slacker geometries and higher BB ,DHX shocks ) . They could then perhaps make a longer travel Truth ( 4.7 inches ) designed around the FOX F 120 to take the place of the Epi .

    a quicker Moment and a longer legged Truth are to me , very desirable bikes .

    I hope I did not offend any die hard Epi owners .

  30. #30
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    If the mag rockers reduce the weight 150 grams, mine would be 6.2 lbs. Mine has the Fox-R but I doubt that would change anything. I wonder why this one is so heavy?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbell
    A pound isn't that big of a deal to me. It just when you think you're getting vanilla and lick chocolat it throws you off a little. I guess you have to watch the fine print with some folks.

    I plan to build;

    Frame - Large Nebulad Blue w/Fox R
    Fork - Fox 120 RLC
    HS - King
    Wheels - Crosmax ST
    Tires - Kenda Karma DTC (Stan's Juice)
    FD - XTR (960)
    RD - XO
    Shift - XO
    Cass - 990
    Chain - 990
    Post - Thomson
    Stem - Thomson X4
    Bars - Undecided
    Grips - ODI North Shore
    Seat - WTB Ti Team
    Cranks - XT
    Pedals - Egg Beater SL
    Brakes Juicey 7 (185/160)


    Fairly light build but not over the top. I've experiemented with uberlight weight builds but sometime they just don't ride as well and aren't as much fun. I like to add weight where I think there will be a significant performance increase. I like stiff whereever I can get it and light where ever I can afford it.

    Hopfully this won't come in too much over 26lbs.

    Any thoughts?
    Looks solid to me. The Bike is gonna rip... Don't worry.... I feel exactly the same about building a bike. For example I like a light wheel with a midweight tire for better traction with some rolling weight.

    The only reason I mentioned the Mojo SL was it truly comes in pounds lighter when built up and rides incredible. DW link pedals as well as ICT and the thing bombs the down hills. I chose the Epi because it had a more XC feel. That is to say I feel more in a cockpit on the Epi and more 'on top' of the Mojo.


  32. #32
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    Looks to be a nice build.

    If weight is bugging me, I remember my fully rigid Tange Prestige 7spd, rim brake bike from the 80's. That bike rocked and was LIGHT because it was sub 30#. I'm a perspective guy.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rovertd
    Looks to be a nice build.

    If weight is bugging me, I remember my fully rigid Tange Prestige 7spd, rim brake bike from the 80's. That bike rocked and was LIGHT because it was sub 30#. I'm a perspective guy.
    I have a full rigid 1985 Cannondale M-800 hanging in the garage that probably weighs more than the Epiphany will.

  34. #34
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    6.5 pounds without shock eh? My 2001 Mountain Cycles San Andreas frame (which depending on shock choice can range from 4 to 6" travel) without shock was a hair under 6 pounds and with the heavy-ish DNM Backdraft (410g) air shock I'm using to give it exactly 5.25" travel its 6.8 Ibs. If I ran say, a Fox Float RP23 I could get it down to 6.5 for sure.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by On-One
    I got it broken down right now to sell the frame...so I will try to run by the shop and weigh it. They have one of those ultimate hook scales. I have known to exagerate...but we shall see!

    Mine is an 07 size SM or MD, can't remember which.
    Do you actually have a Moment. How can you not remember what size you ride???

    Also what is the verdict!!! Too ashamed to admit yours weighs 7+pounds.


    Hope you know I'm just bustin on ya.

  36. #36
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    I'm off to a good start. My front wheel with tire, skewer and disc comes in at 10 oz. or 5/8 of a pound lighter than the front wheel on my Hi Fi Pro.

  37. #37
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    I have a 2008 Epiphany medium with mag rockers and RP23 shock. I weighed it at the shop - 2685 g or 5.92 lbs. With the build it comes in at just under 12Kg or about 26.5 lbs.
    I rode my Truth for 3 years. I will never forget the first day I rode my Epi. Make sure you have someone around on your first downhill to take a pic of that big grin on your face.
    Just a small suggestion - maybe consider the RaceFace Deus XC crank over the XT? I think it is much stiffer than the XT.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by localboyvv
    Kbell- Just Build That Ride And Enjoy Every Moment You're On It. I Believe You Know You Made The Correct Choice In Staying With An Ellsworth. So What If It's A Few Grams More Than What You Thought It Should Be And That The Rocker Are Now Aluminum That Won't Change That Ride You've Come To Love With An Ellsworth.
    I've Upgraded From My Truth To An Epi And I Can't Begin To Tell You How Much I Love It. My Complete Build Puts The Ride At 26 Lbs With The Use Of All The Good Stuff. Besides You Should See All The Attention My Bros And I Get At All Of The Trailheads. Since I Could Never Afford To Buy A Ferrari Of Even A Ducatti This Would Be Its Equal In Cycling.
    Thank god for caps-lock protection.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbell
    I'm off to a good start. My front wheel with tire, skewer and disc comes in at 10 oz. or 5/8 of a pound lighter than the front wheel on my Hi Fi Pro.
    kbell, I don't know you but I like you already. I have to say.... this all belongs in a new Ellsworth Weight Weeny forum.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbell
    Well, my Ellsworth Epiphany showed up today. I know Ellsworth claims that it's the lightest 5" travel bike in the world. Well, mine comes in at 6lbs. 8 oz. Somehow, I doubt it's the lightest in the world.

    I have seen several posts here with Large frames coming in at 5 1/2 lbs. How can it be so.


    Hmm, anyway, I can't decide to be happy or pissed about the new purchase. Any advise?

    I think that claimed weight is without including the bearings and the rear triangle.
    "So long as I can have the sex, and the drugs...I don't really need the rock and roll" -Spinal Tap

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by road dirt
    kbell, I don't know you but I like you already. I have to say.... this all belongs in a new Ellsworth Weight Weeny forum.
    Clydesdale weight weenie that is. Hey light goes forward better!

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zip
    I think that claimed weight is without including the bearings and the rear triangle.
    LMAO You're killin' me!!!

    Sometimes you have to read the fine print

  43. #43
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    No good Check Scale

    I'm no weight winnie expert, but 6lbs 8 oz is alot of weight differance in todays highend frameset market. Are you sure your scale is correct? Mag and Al are not that much differant in weight. Maybe Tony added some beef some where to get the warranty breakage issues down. If I spent that kind of money on a frameset which is advertized at less that 6 lbs, I'd be made as hell. Titus sells a moto lite Ti at less than 6 lbs and Ti is much heaver that Al.

    All framesets for that kind of $$$ should be less than 6 lbs, and frameset means it includes the shock.

    I feel for you, it sucks not getting what you expected.

    David

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIMBERRR
    Do you actually have a Moment. How can you not remember what size you ride???

    Also what is the verdict!!! Too ashamed to admit yours weighs 7+pounds.


    Hope you know I'm just bustin on ya.

    I know I have posted this on other boards but my 2008 large came in at 7.& with a DHX air.

    Edit 7.6lbs
    Last edited by jjcools; 02-08-2008 at 02:24 PM.
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  45. #45
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    My Large EPI was 5.6 lbs. Complete weight is 25.7lbs.I work in a bike shop and the Epi's have all been between 5.6 and 5.9 lbs with RP23's.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by northbkr1
    My Large EPI was 5.6 lbs. Complete weight is 25.7lbs.I work in a bike shop and the Epi's have all been between 5.6 and 5.9 lbs with RP23's.
    When was your scale last calibrated?
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIMBERRR
    Do you actually have a Moment. How can you not remember what size you ride???

    Also what is the verdict!!! Too ashamed to admit yours weighs 7+pounds.


    Hope you know I'm just bustin on ya.

    Ok finally weighed it for the ebay add. My medium is 7.37 lbs per my ultimate Alpine scale. I will take my lashes now. Could of sworn it weighed less when I bought it!
    TTHHHHHHHHHPPPPPPPPPTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

  48. #48
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    We have 2 brand new scales and they both read the same. I have even used one from another shop, same weight

  49. #49
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    I just got a 08 medium Epiphany frame and it weights 6lbs 8 oz. I know the ride will be great, but I thought it would be sub 6 lbs.

  50. #50
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    Every
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    ride fast...take chances...

  51. #51
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    It's likely your scale is wrong

    So I have a 2005 ID and with the Fox Float shock, the frame weighs less than you say your Epi weighs and my ID has more metal than your Epi and is all Aluminum.

    In fact, my Marzocchi Z1FR 150mm front fork weighs more than my frame.

    At the weight you claim, your frame only weighs 2.3lbs less than a Rogue (with DHX) which I find doubtful.

    A lot of scales you buy are junk and it's not uncommon for them to be off by 1lb easy. With the Fox air shock, you should be <6.2lbs.

    I'd be more suspicious of a crap $15 scale than I would of a $2500 frame.
    <<<Yawn.>>>

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteamDonkey
    So I have a 2005 ID and with the Fox Float shock, the frame weighs less than you say your Epi weighs and my ID has more metal than your Epi and is all Aluminum.

    In fact, my Marzocchi Z1FR 150mm front fork weighs more than my frame.

    At the weight you claim, your frame only weighs 2.3lbs less than a Rogue (with DHX) which I find doubtful.

    A lot of scales you buy are junk and it's not uncommon for them to be off by 1lb easy. With the Fox air shock, you should be <6.2lbs.

    I'd be more suspicious of a crap $15 scale than I would of a $2500 frame.
    Well, it's a $50 digital scale and the frame weighs the same on our $$$ UPS scale at work.

    I wish you were right, but this thing is a pig.

  53. #53
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    Hi Guys,

    Why are you so surprised with the additional weight? I'm sure Tony got tired of all of the warranty issues with breakage and beefed up the frame in the critical areas.

    I almost bought one but got turned off last year when I read all of the warranty issues and poor customer service.

    I just put together my Mojo Super light and all I can say is WOW.

    1. Light weight
    2. Strong
    3. Great customer service

    How can you go wrong, the hell with brand loyalty, I work too hard for my money.

    Sorry for robbing the thread

    Remember, just my $.02

    David

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteamDonkey
    A lot of scales you buy are junk and it's not uncommon for them to be off by 1lb easy. With the Fox air shock, you should be <6.2lbs.

    I'd be more suspicious of a crap $15 scale than I would of a $2500 frame.
    Doubt its his scale.......Epiphany definately has gained weight in the last 2 years due to change of Rockers to AL. and thickening of the tubes in key areas.

    Marketing ploy that it is the lightest 5.25 inch travel bike, it is technically the lightest at 5.25 inch travel because how many of its competitors are 5.25 inch travel bikes....most are 5 inch, 5.5 inch. 6 inch, but not 5.25 inch.

    Always read the fine print
    "Can I put a Totem on a FTM?".....Originally Posted by All Mountain

  55. #55
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    I believe your scale could be wrong. The difference between mag and al rockers is not nearly that much. I forget the exact number, it was posted on here before. Something around 200 grams. IT IS WELL WORTH THE UPGRADE. Forget the mag rockers. AL are much much stronger. I ordered mine special with the AL rockers... if you are over 160 or 170 lbs or certainly 180 you should highly consider wanting the AL ones. You will love the bike. if you want to make it race faster spend money on light race wheels.
    matters more than a slightly heavier frame anyway.

    but get a second weigh on that frame... it could be that your scale is wrong.

    let us know
    Ride to Live... Live to Ride

  56. #56
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    Thank To Us For Truth In Advertising Via MTBR Forums

    Quote Originally Posted by MTB'n Louie
    Hi Guys,

    Why are you so surprised with the additional weight? I'm sure Tony got tired of all of the warranty issues with breakage and beefed up the frame in the critical areas.

    I almost bought one but got turned off last year when I read all of the warranty issues and poor customer service.

    I just put together my Mojo Super light and all I can say is WOW.

    1. Light weight
    2. Strong
    3. Great customer service

    How can you go wrong, the hell with brand loyalty, I work too hard for my money.

    Sorry for robbing the thread

    Remember, just my $.02

    David
    Moj SL has gained some weight also.
    Originally on website large matte clear sl frame with dt swiss was marketed at 4.93 pounds. Now they have the medium at 4.96.
    The dt shock is about 40grms or ~.10 of pound lighter than the rp23 90 grams or ~.20 of pound heavier than the matte clears.
    So, you have a large painted sl with rp23 still coming in around 5.3 pounds. <that is a real digi scale weight and then u could weight weenie it down to 5.11. < again a real weight.
    The Moj and Moj SL has had some frame issues also, but customer service is just awesome. (There has actually not been even 1 case posted on mtb forums that I have seen.)
    Also, I would respectfully disagree with anyone who says that Moj does not have as cross country feel as Epi.
    I must say imho quite the opposite is the case.
    (That is what I was looking for in a longer travel bike and tested both bikes on the trail....bought the Moj)
    I think everyone needs to really spend time on a trail with different bikes before they buy one. If you spend lots of time on a trail on one bike, then for compairsion test another bike quickely on the pavement, guess which bike you will probably like best.
    Also, everyones body type is different. If you want a more nibble feel or downhill feel etc. The Moj has a shorter top tube thus you can put a longer stem on giving a more xcountry feel - depending on your torso of course. Epi has much longer top tube in same size and all things equal you have to run a couple of cm shorter stem---thus putting you farther behind the slack head angle giving a more freeride feel.---or giving you opt to go to next smaller size for a more xcountry feel.
    So....once again you need to spend trail time on both bikes. Rental programs are best options. > (Btw, Ibis has program where the $$ for rental goes to the bike purchase if you decide to buy.)

    Also, I must also say to guys that peshaw when we complain about the weights of the these high end frames not living up to spec. >> I will stop compaining about it when bike manufacturers quit marketing it so much.So Epi, Lightest 5" travel bike in the world ?
    uhhhh, no. Btw, don't take it so hard that it is not lightest anymore with bad design of mag swingarm replaced with durable alum. I think that bike manufacters have to reclaim info all the time in this competitive environment >> and that is a good thing for us !
    Great bike and made in usa, yes.
    Last edited by glovemtb; 07-02-2008 at 04:18 AM.

  57. #57
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    Website quote...

    "The magic geometry that makes an Ellsworth bike's handling legendary is the result of years of evolution and careful design tweaking. These evolutions have most recently manifested in the Epiphany, our most popular XC model.

    As one of the lightest 5.25" travel bikes in the world..."

    Hopefully this clears up some confusion listed on earlier posts.

    People who ride the Epis love the Epis - and for good reason. People who ride other frames listed above obviously love their frames. Not sure why some need to post hate [such as "liar", etc.] but I do appreciate the honest comparisons of the different features - some are quite helpful.

    Each manufacturer has to decide how to address the Strenghth vs. Weight issue. Materials and Design are key components to the equation. Ells, in each of the models, competes very well in this area. When you add suspension design into the equation - many many well-informed consumers understand, and once they test ride, they know...
    Its not the brand of the wand that matters, but the skill of the magician. (Make no mistake tho, your brand does suck butt.)

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Rider x

    Each manufacturer has to decide how to address the Strenghth vs. Weight issue. Materials and Design are key components to the equation...
    Like magnesium?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  59. #59
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    ... nah, thats Unobtanium...
    Its not the brand of the wand that matters, but the skill of the magician. (Make no mistake tho, your brand does suck butt.)

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Rider x
    ... nah, thats Unobtanium...
    In any case, this has perked my curiousity; Did the website originally claim it was THE lightest? Did you guys change it?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  61. #61
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    To the best of my knowledge [again, not the tech guy], Ells has never claimed to be THE lightest. ONE of the lightest, certainly.

    Maybe one of the guys who have been around for longer here on the forum would be able to shed some light. But I dont really see the crew around here speaking in factual absolutes such as that -- it just doesnt seem the style.
    Its not the brand of the wand that matters, but the skill of the magician. (Make no mistake tho, your brand does suck butt.)

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Rider x
    To the best of my knowledge [again, not the tech guy], Ells has never claimed to be THE lightest. ONE of the lightest, certainly.

    Maybe one of the guys who have been around for longer here on the forum would be able to shed some light. But I dont really see the crew around here speaking in factual absolutes such as that -- it just doesnt seem the style.
    Well, it had just reminded me of the incident where Tony mis-quoted an article that compared the Id with other bikes (made up words and thoughts that were never in the original article), then when called on it he changed his website, quoted the "new" excerpts on his website, and called all of us liars. It has happened before (changing the website) and I was curious if it had happened again. If it truely said "one of the lightest" from the beginning, then no worries. If it said "the lightest" and everybody got their pants in a tight bunch, it's pretty poor to change it and then claim it's "everyone else". Not saying this happened again, but it has happened before.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  63. #63
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    Not on my watch, friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Not saying this happened again, but it has happened before.
    I have limited knowledge of what has happend over the last 18 years of being in business, but I can tell you what has happened in the last year. Typos, poor grammar, wrong pictures assigned to wrong frames -- yes; welcome to the world of the small business with limited resources. However, I can say with confidence that there have been no false claims on the website.
    Its not the brand of the wand that matters, but the skill of the magician. (Make no mistake tho, your brand does suck butt.)

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Well, it had just reminded me of the incident where Tony mis-quoted an article that compared the Id with other bikes (made up words and thoughts that were never in the original article), then when called on it he changed his website, quoted the "new" excerpts on his website, and called all of us liars. It has happened before (changing the website) and I was curious if it had happened again. If it truely said "one of the lightest" from the beginning, then no worries. If it said "the lightest" and everybody got their pants in a tight bunch, it's pretty poor to change it and then claim it's "everyone else". Not saying this happened again, but it has happened before.
    Just let it go man & move on & go have fun riding the bike you enjoy.
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  65. #65
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    Just ignore them, the same old people dragging up the same old crap. Usually people that have never owned an Ells and own a certain other brand and eaten up by bitterness. It's funny when similar stuff is dragged up in the Turner forum they all pull a hissy fit.

    Just ignore the narrow minded minority. I rode my bike tonight, it was fun, there were Ellsworths, Turner's, Coves etc - everyone had a good time as usual.
    "but I do not see anything in the world of suspension methods that is superior to the 4 Bar.

    Dave Turner


  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    In any case, this has perked my curiousity; Did the website originally claim it was THE lightest? Did you guys change it?
    You are correct.....

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbell
    You are correct.....
    Up to their old tricks again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rouge Rider x
    Not sure why some need to post hate [such as "liar", etc.] but I do appreciate the honest comparisons of the different features - some are quite helpful.
    It's not because a few extra ounces is the end of the world, it's because of the arrogance of the original claim and the company, and then you have the gall to come back and say that the website doesn't make the claim (because it's been changed) and imply that all these people are wrong. This is not the first time.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Up to their old tricks again.



    It's not because a few extra ounces is the end of the world, it's because of the arrogance of the original claim and the company, and then you have the gall to come back and say that the website doesn't make the claim (because it's been changed) and imply that all these people are wrong. This is not the first time.

    *yawn*
    "but I do not see anything in the world of suspension methods that is superior to the 4 Bar.

    Dave Turner


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