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  1. #1
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    How could this brand fall so far

    No postings for weeks at a time, no interest. Never see their bikes. What the heck happened

  2. #2
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    Niner, pivot, ibis and santa cruz happened.

  3. #3
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    The brand is just too toxic.

    Toxic history that will never go away. No respect or trust from within the industry at all.

    Plus they can never seem to find a decent graphic designer.... Graphics and paintwork are always terrible....

  4. #4
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    Leadership

    Ultimately Tony set the personality and tone for the company. Things like arguing and lying to customers, missing market trends etc all start at the top.

  5. #5
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  6. #6
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    I have had a couple Ellsworth's and really like the bikes. But mine were from mid 2000's and the geometry now seems about the same. I am shopping for a new bike and although the new 27.5 epiphany looks good nothing makes it stand out for me to buy it.


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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallo View Post
    kind of doubt it. That's a solid "me too" bike from a brand with the above mentioned problems that costs as much or more than its competition. If they lowered the price by $2k I'd have a look; at around $4k it would be a fair, not great, but fair deal. At $6.5, there are a lot of better bikes from better brands out there.

  8. #8
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    Two words...Tony Ellsworth. I'd honestly be embarrassed to ride one, given his character and history with the brand. It's pretty dead now, it seems. If only the investors had ben smart enough to check MTBR before getting conned into buying Ellsworth....

  9. #9
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    Feel the love. It was pretty entertaining back then, I'm just glad I never bought one. Good luck to the new owners.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  10. #10
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    The entertainment was awesome. Too bad it isn't as exciting anymore. Also, too bad Titus folded.

  11. #11
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    There are things that TE did that simply doomed the company and name. I could totally see someone buying out their assets, machinery and tooling, but these days all that stuff is farmed out, which was what TE was doing in the later years, so I can't imagine they'd be buying anything but the name, which is the one part you wouldn't want.

    Dave Turner, Horst Leitner and a few others (Nicolai supposedly cleaned the shop?) worked to come up with the Amp rear suspension. Horst eventually patented it and while they ultimately sold the rights to Specialized, Horst made an arrangement with Dave Turner that he could use the Horst link for as long as he wanted(not sure if Nicolai was included in this, seeing as their stuff was only distributed in Europe for so long, but now that the patent is expired, doesn't really matter anymore). The Tony Ellsworth did a work-around years later by describing the FSR/Horst-link patent in a different way and got a unique patent which he called "ICT". Then he threatened to sue Dave Turner if Dave did not pay Tony E for each frame that Dave sold, even though DT was doing what he'd been doing all along. Just such an ultimately dip**** move that anyone on the outside can see. How would anyone think that wouldn't come back to bite you in the *** later? Dave ultimately changed the design to a non-horst link, which has arguably better characteristics anyways, rather than fight TE in court. Dave's take was that while he thought he could win, it would take so much time, effort and money as to not be worth it for the relatively small volume that he sold. Ultimately, the one laughing is Dave Turner, as it should be, as TEs practices as a human being ultimately did the company in. This is only one small facet in the entire TE show, but it's just par for the course. TE pulled so many douchebag moves like this and what would you know, it all caught up with the company.
    Last edited by Jayem; 09-05-2016 at 08:57 PM.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  12. #12
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    Another d-bag (though not in TE's league) was that Alan Kang guy of CHUMBA. TE is certainly in a league of his own, and people like him eventually tarnish the industry. Guys like Noel Buckley, Dave Turner, Sherwood Gibson, Chris Cocalis...they make the industry what it is and make our experience so positive. Too bad it can often be harder to make good money for these smaller guys, when competing with big companies and dealing with d-bags at the same time.

  13. #13
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    The haters had long memories and passed their hate on to others.
    Most of the haters didn't actually have any bad experience themselves they just listened to others or didn't like the business practices of the past and so hated and hated and hated .

    Despite the continuous accolades in the magazines and Internet reviews, the hate stuck .

    But the real reason for their demise is they didn't move with the times.
    When everyone else leapt forward with Carbon and modern geometry , Ells kept trying the " made in America " usp, unfortunately they realised too late that few people cared about that and it was actually putting some people off .

    They didn't update their geometry, instead relying on offset bushings and headsets to correct it and they never managed to print the correct geometry in their brochures or website, so you never really knew what the geometry would be and still needed offset bushings and angle sets to adjust it to modern standards .
    This is all a shame because the reason they got all those good reviews is because they were genuinely good bikes in their day . The suspension system really worked well.

    They still aren't moving with the times, this rogue for example . Just when the big players are producing radical geometry 29ers for enduro, they've bought out a 650b . They haven't even got the geometry right either !

    It's a real shame but the best thing they could do now is drop the Ellsworth name . Perhaps reserect the Aeon name ? And produce bikes that are cutting edge, ahead of the competition !

  14. #14
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    Most of the haters didn't actually have any bad experience themselves they just listened to others or didn't like the business practices of the past and so hate
    Except many if us remember specific instances where Tony called people on this board liars, like when he had taken magazine reviews and then changed what they said, making them seem like they said something completely different than what he indicated, and when called on it, he went to his website, changed it around again, came back here, and called us all liars. He's a pathological liar. It's not about hate when he lies and calls everyone else liars. It's simply something is wrong with the guy.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  15. #15
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    I never really "got" the Ellsworth thing, but this Rogue Sixty does look nice.

    The geometry seems pretty spot on for me anyway. 420 mm chainstays, 462 mm reach, 66 degree HA, and 74 degree SA for a Large seems pretty modern and like my perfect bike.

    I agree that the price is steep though. I'll stick with my Knollys.
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  16. #16
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    I've noticed that a number of the smaller niche brands have pretty dead/slow sub-fourms on MTBR. Pivot and Knolly to name two I check out frequently. Neither brand is in trouble from a sales perspective [AFAIK], but the number of posts per week are not as high as I would have expected.

    I don't have access to MTBR site traffic stats. It could just be this site doesn't draw as many people as it used to. I think MTBR pimping e-bikes might be driving non-motorized riders away!
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I've noticed that a number of the smaller niche brands have pretty dead/slow sub-fourms on MTBR. Pivot and Knolly to name two I check out frequently. Neither brand is in trouble from a sales perspective [AFAIK], but the number of posts per week are not as high as I would have expected.

    I don't have access to MTBR site traffic stats. It could just be this site doesn't draw as many people as it used to. I think MTBR pimping e-bikes might be driving non-motorized riders away!
    I think Pivot and Knolly traffic is not bad, in fact, I think they are part of the "fairly successful" boutique brands, including Evil, Turner, Ibis, SC (hard to say this is still a boutique brand though), Yeti, and maybe Intense. After that it starts to drop off real quick IMO, more like the E forum than any of the others. What most of these brands have in common is they keep turning out competitive bikes for the most part. They offer decent quality, support and features that people want. A lot of times, giving the option of building your own bike from a frame or from a source you trust due to previous interaction and business.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    Niner, pivot, ibis and santa cruz happened.
    To some extent, yes.

    The original Truth, from WAY back when, used a setup similar to the Giant NRS, where the shock was intended to be ran with zero sag and pedaling inputs would attempt to extend the shock, so you could say it was "100% efficient", although it did a horrible job of suspending like this. This changed fairly early on and was long gone by the days of the Ellsworth Id, but that 2nd generation Truth and everything after had very low pedaling efficiency. Even Specialized, which also uses a horst link, uses significantly more AS than Ellsworth. These are "old" bikes and they'll ride much more "soggy" and lethargic uphill, you'll feel like you are putting a ton of energy into it, but not getting much acceleration out of that. Tony Ellsworth even claimed at one point that his bikes were "up to 100% efficient" and that they did not need a lockout. Guess what the bikes came with in short order? Lockout switches! (on the shocks). Some of the geometry back in the day was just downright wacky compared to their contemporaries and super long linkage rockers are not conductive to stiff frames, as seen on some of these bikes. Most of the redesigns and enhancements have been in the geometry area, the suspension does not seem to have seen any improvements, at least compared to what most frame designers have figured out (somewhere near 100% anti-squat near the sag point and hopefully a little way through the travel). Just as Dave Turner found out, there really wasn't any benefit to doing this with a horst-link, at least when most everyone is using a 1x drivetrain where the pivot point relative to the chain is a fixed distance (instead of movable when we used multiple rings up front). This simplification makes it far easier to build good single-pivot bikes and about the only possible benifit for the FSR is possibly more active braking, but this can and did go too far on some FSR frames, with stink-bug effects (actual JACK instead of "squat") and many feel that slight amount of squat dialed in helps offset the inherent forward weight shift caused during braking. FSRs can be done better, and to an extent Specialized is doing this on at least some of the bikes, like the 2016 stumpjumper 27.5 at almost 100% AS at 50% of it's travel, much better adapted for 1x drivetrains, etc.

    I guess you can look at it all two ways, first, Tony really killed the brand with his toxic customer service and comments at customers, but they also did little to innovate after a point, more of a "they kind of got lucky at one point". They did a lot of re-designs and geometry tweaks, but much of it wasn't very substantial IMO.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  19. #19
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    The Knolly sub-forum was a lot more active back in 2013/14 when I first started reading the posts there. That one has definitely slowed down.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    The Knolly sub-forum was a lot more active back in 2013/14 when I first started reading the posts there. That one has definitely slowed down.
    Possibly a bit, I still check it and there are interesting things there every once and a while. I also notice the bikes in places. I've done some Pac NW trips to WA and seen some, so that's another way you can see it's not "dead". Lots of Evils BTW out there, that was impressive on my trip last month. I see Ibis, Yeti, etc. all on the trail. Ellsworth? Occasionally an old one and that's it. I admit that Knolly is more rare to see, I think they are more popular in places that have more "freeride" type terrain though.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nsynk View Post
    The haters had long memories and passed their hate on to others.
    Most of the haters didn't actually have any bad experience themselves they just listened to others or didn't like the business practices of the past and so hated and hated and hated .
    You failed to mention probably one of the worse customer service experiences in the bike industry. That and hit and miss QC...

    One of my mates got a Carbon Evolve a couple of years ago, despite our warnings! It was cheap though, shop was trying to get rid of all its stock of E.

    Sure enough this out of date hideous looking thing turned up. So he built it and immediately the rear calliper wouldn't sit straight. The carbon post mounts were crazily out of line. So cut the brake hydro line again and back to the shop and new seat stay supplied (ripped from another frame.. I'll go into more detail about that in a minute). So the build continued. Internal cable routing was a huge hole drilled into the head tube, nice rattle to accompany your ride. Supplied guides were badly thought out. A week later the rear HL bearing decides to un-bond and will not go back in with fresh bonding. Some callipers reveal the problem... So back to the shop for another chain stay (ripped from another donor bike). Honestly the shop looked like a Ellsworth frame horror scene, bits of body everywhere.

    That poor shop/importer suffered for years. They did what they could for customers but were so badly supported by Ellsworth. When you went into that shop there were countless Ellsworth frames in bits that had been used to rescue customers. It was like that for years.

    When he got the frame I thought maybe things had changed, I had to laugh.

    So its not just about 'hate' but about people who had real bad experiences with the brand - which were many!

    Anyway he sold the bike not long after.

    My own experience? In 2004 I bought Moment and after two rides my seat post jammed (before dropper posts ) Mine was one of the frames that had a 'QC' issue... Shot peen being left in the frame after poor preparation. The poor shop tried to help by cleaning out the frame, but it still kept on jamming and destroying posts. So they gave me another frame which meant my seat post could now go up and down... but now my rear Fat Albert was rubbing the seat stay, it was out of alignment. So my old frame was pulled apart ( you see how far back the shop had been doing this....) and I fitted the original rear end. Then sold it on and got a 6 Pack.

    I know many brands have issues, but the difference is in how they handle those issues. Those E frame weren't cheap!!!!!!

    I know may other owners had far worse dealings with TE.

  22. #22
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    And the staff he took from Sapa..... Then his dealings with Ventana, I believe Sherwood told him where to stick it. Oh the tales!!!!!

    You could almost do a tv drama of it all.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibbs_ View Post
    And the staff he took from Sapa..... Then his dealings with Ventana, I believe Sherwood told him where to stick it. Oh the tales!!!!!

    You could almost do a tv drama of it all.
    I am so disappointed I missed all of this. I have done extensive searches here numerous times and have been unable to find any of the legendary madness. Nothing. Zip. I strongly suspect the brass expunged the site of all TE-related insanity. I wish someone WOULD do a TV drama. Or better yet, a full length movie.

    And add Norco to the list of virtually inactive sub-forums. Where I ride, every 4th bike is a Norco. Well, that might be a bit of a stretch, but not by much. Yet, zero traffic here. I have concluded that Norco must have a very limited sales region - primarily western Canada. And everyone must be riding and not typing. Or something. Not quite sure.

    I haven't seen an Ellsworth on a local trail in the last decade or so.

  24. #24
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    How could this brand fall so far

    I rarely see others on the trail other than the three my dad and I have. I ran across one in Vegas a year ago. I never had any issues with them other than breaking a seat stay on my ID that was way out of warranty. We are really happy with our bikes, I'm in the market for another and Ellsworth isn't in the running at all. And trying to sell a used one isn't easy either haha!


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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by desertwheeler View Post
    I rarely see others on the trail other than the three my dad and I have. I ran across one in Vegas a year ago. I never had any issues with them other than breaking a seat stay on my ID that was way out of warranty. We are really happy with our bikes, I'm in the market for another and Ellsworth isn't in the running at all. And trying to sell a used one isn't easy either haha!

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    Hey - no disrespect intended on my part. I never really got it, but back in the day, I had a few biking buddies who literally lusted after Ellsworth bikes. Absolute top of their list. TE may have been a pathological nut case, but for a period, his bikes were considered by some completely sane guys I knew to be ultra high end, and super boutiquey. Pricey, but the ultimate.

  26. #26
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    Are you guys talking about Tony The Eel Ellsworth or Donald Trump. I'm getting confused.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Hey - no disrespect intended on my part. I never really got it, but back in the day, I had a few biking buddies who literally lusted after Ellsworth bikes. Absolute top of their list. TE may have been a pathological nut case, but for a period, his bikes were considered by some completely sane guys I knew to be ultra high end, and super boutiquey. Pricey, but the ultimate.
    No worries, I love the looks and the way it rides, I heard a lot of the horror stories after I broke my frame, my dads buddies never had a problem with dealing with Ellsworth on warranty parts. My dad got a new chain stay for his 04 truth and a seat stay for his oracle.


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  28. #28
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    Truly excellent to hear DW

    Also excellent that you and your dad are into biking together. Great stuff.

  29. #29
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    One of my LBS (leaving the name out because he indicated he wants it that way) goes way back with Ventana and Turner, knows both guys personally and has for more than 20 years.

    Evidently many years ago TE called up my LBS and asked if he wanted to have one of the Ellsworth bikes to demo and sell. Wanna say it was the Id, but I don't remember for sure now. My LBS said "no way". Guess what showed up a few weeks later? My LBS did not accept the package and sent it right back. Guess who called all irate about "you don't want to burn bridges in this business" a couple days later? My LBS's response was basically "who the F are you?". My LBS of course knew who TE and Ellsworth were, but my LBS just couldn't comprehend how this guy thought he was so important to the industry and everyone else.

    I mean, this craziness wasn't even part of what I knew about until just a few months ago when I got my new Turner frame from him. I didn't even ask about TE and this story just popped up. It's this crazy stuff you hear about from all sorts of different angles that really sets the tone.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  30. #30
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    That certainly sounds like him. Big ego, aggressive personality, takes things personally, and not much to back it up.

    So that BST Nano (they basically owned part or most of Ellsworth lately) collapsed in 2015 and before they did, TE managed to somehow convince an investor (Jonathan Freeman?) to make a big investment in Ellsworth and keep him as the VP/founder. So I guess things are back to how they used to be...with TE at the helm churning out his outdated designs and blowing through someone else's cash. I do think that the brand has taken too much reputation damage, and investors would be uninformed to invest in it with such stiff competition that churns out superior bikes at lower prices. Maybe someone should direct Jonathan Freeman to this thread. He may have second thoughts.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    I am so disappointed I missed all of this. I have done extensive searches here numerous times and have been unable to find any of the legendary madness. Nothing. Zip. I strongly suspect the brass expunged the site of all TE-related insanity. I wish someone WOULD do a TV drama. Or better yet, a full length movie.
    No you won't see a lot of it, because most of it was removed... But somebody had already cached it and saved it

    Every now and then somebody would repost TE's threads. They were excruciating to read, honestly you just wanted to jump down a hole. He got thoroughly owned by people on here - but of course he never saw it that way..

    They are a text book example of how to kill your brand by social media.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibbs_ View Post
    No you won't see a lot of it, because most of it was removed... But somebody had already cached it and saved it
    I wish I could read every single post in every single thread. I would do a non-stop binge read and savour every word.

  33. #33
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    Back in 2004, I had some money to go all-out and buy a boutique bike.

    I'm so very glad I bought a Titus after reading all of this. It was really a great bike.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

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    Oh man, the drama was amazing...the most entertaining saga ever, and some of the best stuff on MTBR. I wish all the posts had been saved. Titus was a really good brand and made some great bikes. Chris Cocalis' exit took that brand down, it seems. Still, he is churning out get bikes at Pivot. I think Pivot has some Titus DNA.

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    Maybe I wont save up for one of these bikes, maybe ill stick with my same brand, bikes look damn near comparable anyway. Better components and cheaper, too bad not so many bikes are made in the states.

  36. #36
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    From the Ellsworth Website:

    Ellsworth Handcrafted means that you’ll get the absolute best bike possible – every bike is produced for our end users as if it is to be our own. They are designed and engineered in Southern California, and we use as much US manufacturing and domestically sourced material as we can. That said, it is sometimes necessary to employ the skills and know-how of others outside our borders because our true focus is always on the processes, procedures and materials. We’re constantly striving for the best blend of light weight, strength, and durability. We aim for the best handling and suspension efficiency. When you throw a leg over your Ellsworth bicycle, you can be 100% sure that we worked diligently to deliver the best ride possible.
    From another place on their website:

    Ellsworth Aluminum
    Ellsworth Aluminum bike frames provide all the excitement, function, and efficiency of our carbon fiber frames, but at a lower cost. We’re still making these in the USA, and we’re proud of it. Prior to being welded, each frame tube is milled by hand for a perfect, gap-free alignment with the other tubes as the frame is assembled in the jig. These tight joints ensure that the frames can be welded to perfection for maximum strength, stiffness, and durability. All of our aluminum frames are anodized to show off the flawless craftsmanship and to protect the aluminum alloy from corrosion, inside and out. Like our carbon production, you can be sure that our aluminum frames are made with the same social and environmental stewardship, and that are manufacturing practices minimize waste and raw material usage.
    Now this, from January of this year:

    PCW16: Ellsworth finds renewed energy with another new owner - Bikerumor

    One of the biggest points that Tony stressed to me during our time at PressCamp was that even though none of their bikes are completely made in the U.S. at the moment, Ellsworth still has one of the highest percentages of domestic components in the industry.
    Domestic components? I mean seriously?

    San Diego investor acquires Ellsworth | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News

    The brand is at PressCamp Winter exhibiting its new line of carbon bikes with frames largely produced in Taiwan and assembled in Southern California. Ellsworth said he still hopes to produce carbon frames domestically, however, and the company continues to focus on sourcing as many U.S.-produced components as possible.
    I mean, just go read the ellsworth website yourself. It's rare that you see that much effort put into BS. I realize every manufacturer wants to fluff up their brand, but given these claims being at the very least questionable, and Tony Ellsworth's history, you gotta be a sucker to believe most of what's on that website.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

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    I mean, just go read the ellsworth website yourself. It's rare that you see that much effort put into BS. I realize every manufacturer wants to fluff up their brand, but given these claims being at the very least questionable, and Tony Ellsworth's history, you gotta be a sucker to believe most of what's on that website.[/QUOTE]

    I don't know, the other bikes I was looking at have about the same amount of text describing their product(fezzari). I mean the bikes at my local lbs I think are all over priced and middle of the run. I mean unless your a sucker or fairly wealthy I wouldn't shop there, except for some repairs and such (they will hook you up, good people).

    Not trying to 'thread jack' I suppose I have not done too much shopping around. I don't exactly study bicycle geometry's, there is so many nice bikes out there, most outclass most people. Its kind of a headache to examine them all.

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    How could this brand fall so far-20160910_110538.jpgNot defending Ellsworth here...I really couldn't care less about the drama. My Truth did start to develop a small crack on the chainstays. I sent a picture to Ellsworth and they shipped me a replacement, no questions asked. Granted that was about 10 years ago.

    I must admit that I made a "once in a lifetime" climb in Moab on my Truth. My bros and I tried it several times and then, somehow, I made it. I'm no great rider, not bragging, but it was the most vert thing I ever attempted and I will never try it again. It was an adrenaline rush from hell. I still like the bike and I'm keeping it. I have a Yeti SB6c now that is screaming to get to So. Utah...so forget everything I just said, maybe I'll try it again on the Yeti. ; )
    Last edited by jakef801; 10-16-2016 at 11:05 AM.

  39. #39
    West Chester, PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer View Post
    Oh man, the drama was amazing...the most entertaining saga ever, and some of the best stuff on MTBR. I wish all the posts had been saved. Titus was a really good brand and made some great bikes. Chris Cocalis' exit took that brand down, it seems. Still, he is churning out get bikes at Pivot. I think Pivot has some Titus DNA.
    Chris is a very good businessman with a great grasp of the people part of the equation. Hire the right people for design, sales and customer service and you'll make a lot of money. Successful business owners understand this and stay out of the way of their people. Everything I've ever heard about TE is that he got involved in everything and rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.. There is a shop near me is a decades long trek dealer that carries one "boutique" brand of mountain bikes. After some difficulties with their Ellsworth rep and the subsequent calls from tony, they dropped them and have been using santa cruz as their secondary brand ever since. Consequently, I still see quite a few Ellsworths on my local trails. Another store near me that moves a lot of pivots gushes over what a great company they are to work with. The owner has met chris but has never had to speak to him when there is an issue. They don't make people go to those lengths.

  40. #40
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
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    I never thought I'd see the day when a thread like this was in the Ellsworth forum, and not much fight for the brand. A friend of mine back in the early 2000's bought a Truth. It cracked / broke / snapped so many times he gave up fighting with TE and ended up going with Turner. Funny thing is we lived just a few miles from both Ellsworth and Turner. He became great friends with DT and is such an incredible rider DT had him test prototype bikes for a few years. Looks like TE blew that relationship as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Dude, I'm in Illinois. The only place anyone would come from that would say this area is hilly is Kansas.

  41. #41
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    Well, most of the older Ellsworth owners have moved on to other brands. Regardless of TE antics, Ellsworth eventually just fell far behind in geometry and suspension design. Their most vocal and passionate owners simply moved on to Santa Cruz, Ibis, Intense, Pivot, and a couple of others. I never see an Ellsworth on the trails here in the Colorado Front Range, or near Breckenridge. I used to up to 5-6 years ago. Then I started to see more SC, Ibis, Intense, and Specialized here and Ellsworth practically vanished.

    I do remember one time I was on my bright green Turner 5 Spot and ran into an Ellsworth rider...the last time I saw an Ellsworth. I think it was a Truth but honestly, I don't remember the model....it was a black 26" FS. He was stopped at a usual stopping point at Kenosha Pass, right before a long forested climb. So I stopped and said Hi and the usual "how's it going" thing. Man, the guy was just standoffish and would not even say a word back. He nodded curtly. Never met a rider like that, I took off, and it was my only negative experience with a mtn biker ever. Maybe he was on MTBR and hated Turner riders...not sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I never thought I'd see the day when a thread like this was in the Ellsworth forum, and not much fight for the brand. A friend of mine back in the early 2000's bought a Truth. It cracked / broke / snapped so many times he gave up fighting with TE and ended up going with Turner. Funny thing is we lived just a few miles from both Ellsworth and Turner. He became great friends with DT and is such an incredible rider DT had him test prototype bikes for a few years. Looks like TE blew that relationship as well.

  42. #42
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    How could this brand fall so far

    So my dad recently broke his oracles' rocker arm. He called Ellsworth they sent him a new blue one. He had to buy a new shock stay and parts to convert the Ellsworth hub to a thru axle for a few hundred bucks. The rocker was free, but because of the different design he had to change the shock stay too. They were very helpful to him even being such an old bike. So not all bad coming from them.


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  43. #43
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    I came so close in pulling the trigger on a Eppi. as I still think they are decent bikes but Wow! this brand just feel of the face of the earth. I heard all the rumors and B.S. as I'm aware that a lot said was true and thats a shame too. Tony had a good thing going but let it all slip away.

    With all that said as people can form their own opinion as I pick a Titus FTM carbon which I sold to my relative as this was a great bike but now I'm just glad I went with Pivot as which is what I now own. A Mach 6 and a 429 SL as I just love the DW suspension

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