I know the pros at Ellsworth are gonna make a frigid sweet ride but figured a little imput from the peanut gallery never hurts and can help kill time till the final bike is ready.
Here goes
Please Please Please do a Straight 1.5 HT.
Tapered headtubes have no place on a park bike. Just an opinion.
I agree with you on that. Straight 1.5 to allow maximum geometry change using anglesets.
180mm medium BB height (14 inch max) and slackish angles, approx 65 degrees. That way using an angleset you can slacken it out to 63 degrees as a DH orientated park bike with a nice low BB or steepen it to 67 degrees as a big travel all mountain ride.
Fitting the head tube with pinch bolts to allow easy removing of the upper headset cup would be a nice touch too.
Absolutely definately a proper bolt through rear axle. Maxle or similar would be good.
I want non-adjustable 150x12mm dropouts with 83mm bb.
I want adjustable travel via shock change.
I want ISCG 05.
I want 1.5 headtube.
I want it to be 9lbs inc shock.
to see a new 7 inch bike from ellsworth - however, I wonder if they are going to continue with their steep head angles and make a 180mm 67 degree HA bike????????
to see a new 7 inch bike from ellsworth - however, I wonder if they are going to continue with their steep head angles and make a 180mm 67 degree HA bike????????
From a post I remember reading it sounds more like they are gonna follow current park bike trends. I have no idea what they plan on but if they are looking at bikes like the specy SX we could have something pretty nice coming.
66degree HT and sub 14" BB would be nice.
The current Rogue when specced with an 8.5 x 2.5 shock has a 66 degree head angle and a 14.25 inch bb height with approx 185mm travel. For me that is still too high and steep. However I just received an angleset headset from www.ofanaim.net. and with that fitted my HA will be 64.7 degrees and BB 13.5 inch !!! I don't think I will be needing the fr180 !!!
From a post I remember reading it sounds more like they are gonna follow current park bike trends. I have no idea what they plan on but if they are looking at bikes like the specy SX we could have something pretty nice coming.
66degree HT and sub 14" BB would be nice.
66 deg head angle with Angleset plus/minus 1 or 1.5 deg as stock spec.
BB 14" or slightly lower is the target
WB 43.5 - 44.5
Welding this week, next week to heat treat and build, no time for ano, but two (1) sm (1) lng should make it to Sea Otter
The first protos will not have the through axle rear, but they should follow in the next month
66 deg head angle with Angleset plus/minus 1 or 1.5 deg as stock spec.
BB 14" or slightly lower is the target
WB 43.5 - 44.5
Welding this week, next week to heat treat and build, no time for ano, but two (1) sm (1) lng should make it to Sea Otter
The first protos will not have the through axle rear, but they should follow in the next month
Ok by implication that means it has a tapered head tube not 1.5, otherwise you would have said 2 degree adjustment with an angleset.
Actually that is not bad stats for a big AM/FR bike. Slackening it off to 64.5 with a correspondingly lower BB is enough for most bike park stuff. If you need it slacker then buy a DH bike.
I see the Ellsworth newsletter put something out at the same time you posted too
66HA - thats AM by today's standards 44 in WB - thats AM.
Look like Ellsworth is sticky to their old - "3 year behind" geo....
Those sound like pretty good 180mm travel bike numbers to me.
You want slacker, longer...maybe they be building a true DH bike mate?
This does not sounds like a true DH bike to me.
wow . V different?. Interupted seat tube, that's new for Ells and whats with the double tapered headtube? 1.5 top and bottom but narrow in the centre, mm interesting indeed.
Interesting.
Obviously not too much to look at till it's finished. Wonder if this will still double as a Black diamond trial bike? (Climbable for the local DH runs) Or is it gonna be specific to the Lifts?
Happy Monday
Here is a couple more pics that will give you more detail about upper pivot location, etc.
Now we are ready for alignment and final age.
Next, on to testing
David
The prototype does not match the drawing. The drawing has a straight seat tube. personally I like the straight tube better.
The bend doesn't bother me unless it inhibits the ability to put a front derailuer on.
Was already planning on a dropper post. Unless of course the seat tube angle is super slack. Kinda wonder if this is gonna be a park only or a true freeride (Aka pedal to the top first) kinda bike.
Guess we will find out soon enough.
The prototype does not match the drawing. The drawing has a straight seat tube. personally I like the straight tube better.
Thanks for noticing,
I was not sitting on the FR180 drawing
The seat tube bend is to allow a front derailleur then get out of the way of the rear end under full compression
David
Thanks for noticing,
I was not sitting on the FR180 drawing
The seat tube bend is to allow a front derailleur then get out of the way of the rear end under full compression
David
mmm Sounds like it will have some nice short stays then. short rear centre and long front centre. sounds good
timbbbber - I saw the FR180 today. spoke to several of the guys about it - seat angle looks really slack. like 68 ish. no one knew though. the long seemed a little big on my with the seat halfway up, and im 5'9. small felt real nice.
and the frame only weighs 9lbs. pretty appealling.
anyone know what how the sizing should mate up - with the dare only have a S and L? where's the cut off for most people?
Hoping the TT measures close to the old rogue. 23.5 small & 24.5 Large.
Personally I lean toward the Small if it's close to old rogue numbers.
That slack seat tube does have me a bit perplexed? How is that gonna be for the climbs some of us make to get to our goods. Really 68degrees? Yikes.
Hope Bike Zen chimes in with some Geo Numbers and explanations.
Hi Guys,
Chiming in on geo and such.
This bike was designed to enter us into the FR category. The Rogue was not in the FR category, it was a long travel "Adventure Bike" . Since the Moment has now crept up to 160mm of travel. it has now taken the place of what the Rogue used to be used for.
Note: We created these protos to make sure the geo and strength are good. We can still change it, but by design, it fits the FR category well
Here are some comparison numbers for you (size SM):
Originally Posted by Prodigy
Hoping the TT measures close to the old rogue. 23.5 small & 24.5 Large.
Personally I lean toward the Small if it's close to old rogue numbers.
That slack seat tube does have me a bit perplexed? How is that gonna be for the climbs some of us make to get to our goods. Really 68degrees? Yikes.
Hope Bike Zen chimes in with some Geo Numbers and explanations.
Hi Guys,
Chiming in on geo and such.
This bike was designed to enter us into the FR category. The Rogue was not in the FR category, it was a long travel "Adventure Bike" . Since the Moment has now crept up to 160mm of travel. it has now taken the place of what the Rogue used to be used for.
Note: We created these protos to make sure the geo and strength are good. We can still change it, but by design, it fits the FR category well
Here are some comparison numbers for you (size SM):
So is the 21.5 an effective TT measurement or actual?
Mini-Dare? I guess that would be fair considering where the market has taken these single crown FR bikes.
So what numbers are we looking at for the large/long?
Safe to say this bike is directed more toward the resort / bike park.
Not sure many people will want to climb anything on a 68 degree seatube.
Not hating. Jus sayin.
Bike looks great and will be a great resort ripper.
we can get a medium thrown in the mix. there's got to be enough 5'8 -->5'10 riders out there that would suffer from raising the seat post too much where it would be super slack when raised all the way, right?
we can get a medium thrown in the mix. there's got to be enough 5'8 -->5'10 riders out there that would suffer from raising the seat post too much where it would be super slack when raised all the way, right?
I think the main thing to remember is that this is a prototype. Angles may change. I saw a video on pinkbike saying they are looking toward a September for a release date.
The dude also mentioned the purpose ofthe super slack seat tube was that when raised it creates a larger cockpit for climbing and when dropped provided a smaller more nimble bike for the downhill shredd. Sounds good in theory. Only their testers will be able to confirm.
Damn! 65 degree ST angle. DH rigs are running that. Not sure how it could be 70 degrees depending on Seat post height.
Look forward to hearing the numbers for the Large.
I agree, 65deg sounds very slack, but with the seat tube forward and angled back like this, the seat tube angle becomes effective.
So the lower the post, the steeper the effective seat tube angle. All the way down = 71 deg (which is really way too steep for this category) all the way up = 65 deg (in theory, this will be way too high for this category as well) The sweet spot, should run at 68 deg, just like the rest of the bikes in the category.
Theory's are like the best laid plans though. We will need to ride them in several positions and make adjustments to the protos before production.
I agree, 65deg sounds very slack, but with the seat tube forward and angled back like this, the seat tube angle becomes effective.
So the lower the post, the steeper the effective seat tube angle. All the way down = 71 deg (which is really way too steep for this category) all the way up = 65 deg (in theory, this will be way too high for this category as well) The sweet spot, should run at 68 deg, just like the rest of the bikes in the category.
Theory's are like the best laid plans though. We will need to ride them in several positions and make adjustments to the protos before production.
How are the tests going. You guys able to climb without the front end lifting and wandering all over the place? Seems like people will be pretty far behind the rear wheel with the Seat up.
The bike looks *****ing but is it capable for Backcountry and resorts?
Sizing and geo looks pretty good. Frame is shaping up nicely!
However, armchair/e-speculation has me wondering what the added benefits are to having such large rocker arms? Seems as though all that extra arm is a lot of material that could be shaved away with a shorter link...unless there is something special about ICT and a huge arm like that. I get that it creates a nice lever that might lead to lower leverage ratios and better susp curves but I have yet to see this factually stated/graphed
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Originally Posted by Knext!
