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  1. #1
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    Fox 36 vanilla or 32 vanilla for Moment?

    I'm thinking of putting together another ride that would span the "AM/FR" spectrum, but one that still would lend to climbing. Would the 36 vanilla slack out the head angle too much to achieve my goal?

    I've heard that the Pike goes well with the Moment, but I'm a bigger fan of Fox forks right now. Thanks in advance.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by awai04
    Would the 36 vanilla slack out the head angle too much to achieve my goal?

    Maybe this will help you.

    I run an '06 36 Talas (so 150mm instead of the 160) with a Kenda Nevegal 2.35 in the rear and a Nevegal 2.5 in the front. At full fork travel, my head angle is 66.5 deg. With the travel adjusted all the way down (110mm), the angle is 68.5 deg. I just bought an angle locator this week and was shocked when I measured this.

    The bike climbs fine for most stuff, but when things start to get steep (10% or greater) I find the front end wants to wander around a bit. I think I've had more problems than most, but its something I find a bit frustrating. If I didn't have the adjustable travel, I think I'd be really urked on a lot of climbs.

  3. #3
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    Whoa. 66.5 degrees seems kinda slack. So what do you mean by ten percent or more? I guess what I'm asking is at what slope do you find the front end wandering?

    So far, what you're saying is swaying me towards the 32 series. I'm no lift or big air rider, but I do like to push myself on what I can descend.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by awai04
    Whoa. 66.5 degrees seems kinda slack. So what do you mean by ten percent or more? I guess what I'm asking is at what slope do you find the front end wandering?

    So far, what you're saying is swaying me towards the 32 series. I'm no lift or big air rider, but I do like to push myself on what I can descend.

    10% means 10% grade. But I'm thinking it might be more like 15% before I start to notice anything, its gotta be pretty steep.

    The 66.5 is a shocking number to me, and one I'm still hesitant to believe. I mean, Ellsworth claims a 69 deg head angle with a Fox 32, and I still don't make that even when the fork is all the way down. I know tire choices make a difference (its why I mentioned it) but it doesn't seem like it would be that much!

  5. #5
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    You should cross Vanilla out and replace it with Talas. I have the '07 Talas. I bought mine because of the 20mm TA and the travel reducer option. When you reduce the travel the H and L compression and the rebound don't change.

    And this fork is so plush and eats up everything. I think it really balances out nicely with the DHX coil.
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  6. #6
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    I rode the Van 32 for a while. It's a good HA for climbing and general riding, but I find the fork to be a bit flexy.

    Honestly, I'm finding the Moment to be a conundrum: It has that "go big" capability and the "XC/trail" ability and trying to find one fork that's perfect for both is somewhat difficult. I think the guys who've tried a 36 in some form have had the best experience. With the way this bike can be ridden, a 20mm TA is a must. Personally, I think they need to tweak the geometry a bit on this bike, slacken the front just a tad to handle the bigger forks better.

    I swapped out an AM 1 for a Van 32 and rode it for about two weeks. I've recently sold both. I tried a Lyrik on the bike and at 160mm, the bike wandered only on the steepest grades. DH was great as this fork is very stiff and the angles were good for that. With a Lyrik, the Moment needs to be run at about 155mm to be optimum so a U Turn would be the obvious choice. If you like the Van 36, you might think about the Lyrik with U Turn. The dampers are very good on this fork, it's coil sprung and gives you that adjustability.

  7. #7
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    I ride an Epi w/ a Van 32 (130mm) and a 100mm zero degree stem, no spacers. I recently built a Moment w/ a Van 36 and a 90mm five degree stem,20mm of spacers. Both bikes have the similar rise bars. I have to say that I was very impressed how the Moment climed with that high of a front end. I have cleared a technical climbs on the Moment that I could not do on the Epi. The moment doesn't wander any more than my Epi.
    Charlie

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    [QUOTE=chad1433]
    Honestly, I'm finding the Moment to be a conundrum: It has that "go big" capability and the "XC/trail" ability and trying to find one fork that's perfect for both is somewhat difficult. I think the guys who've tried a 36 in some form have had the best experience. With the way this bike can be ridden, a 20mm TA is a must. Personally, I think they need to tweak the geometry a bit on this bike, slacken the front just a tad to handle the bigger forks better.
    QUOTE]


    I definately agree, 20mm axles are a must. But how much more slack do you need the head tube to be? I couldn't believe it when mine measured out at 66.5 (unladen). I'm thinking its even more slack when I'm on board since I don't load the fork as much as the rear end. Granted, I'm not using a $300 instrument or anything, but I checked the angle locator with a bubble level and it seems to be reading fine. I am still a bit skeptical since it is so far off of the Ellsworth specs. I did check the seat tube however, and unladen it measured at about 71 deg, so it probably falls back close to the speced 73.5 when sagged.

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=UP Dude]
    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    Honestly, I'm finding the Moment to be a conundrum: It has that "go big" capability and the "XC/trail" ability and trying to find one fork that's perfect for both is somewhat difficult. I think the guys who've tried a 36 in some form have had the best experience. With the way this bike can be ridden, a 20mm TA is a must. Personally, I think they need to tweak the geometry a bit on this bike, slacken the front just a tad to handle the bigger forks better.
    QUOTE]


    I definately agree, 20mm axles are a must. But how much more slack do you need the head tube to be? I couldn't believe it when mine measured out at 66.5 (unladen). I'm thinking its even more slack when I'm on board since I don't load the fork as much as the rear end. Granted, I'm not using a $300 instrument or anything, but I checked the angle locator with a bubble level and it seems to be reading fine. I am still a bit skeptical since it is so far off of the Ellsworth specs. I did check the seat tube however, and unladen it measured at about 71 deg, so it probably falls back close to the speced 73.5 when sagged.

    hmmm...Isn't it supposed to be at 69 with a 130mm Fox? In order to get 66.5 you'd have to add 2.5" of height, or 62.5mm, putting you at around 192.5mm. 66.5 degrees is like DH race bike territory. If we assume it's supposed to be 69 degrees at 150mm and you add the 62.5mm or so of A to C, you're getting into really high values...

    Ideally, we need to know the HA at a specifice A to C height, as opposed to the travel of the fork. Even two forks of the same brand have different As to C.

    This could explain the wandering your getting. Perhaps your bike is different than stated figures are supposed to be.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    Honestly, I'm finding the Moment to be a conundrum: It has that "go big" capability and the "XC/trail" ability and trying to find one fork that's perfect for both is somewhat difficult. I think the guys who've tried a 36 in some form have had the best experience. With the way this bike can be ridden, a 20mm TA is a must. Personally, I think they need to tweak the geometry a bit on this bike, slacken the front just a tad to handle the bigger forks better.
    Interesting comments Chad. Might you be looking at getting another frame?

    I have to agree with everything you said. I have only test ridden a Moment, but my impressions were the same as you have stated here. The one I test rode had a 130mm Float on it. I was not impressed by the fork and was not impressed by the way the Moment handled with such a short travel fork. It climbed great, but left a lot to be desired on the descent. If I were to get one, I think I would get a 150mm thru axle fork. I personally think that either the new Zoke Z1 or the AMSL1 would be killer on the Moment. The AMSL1 even has the new travel adjust cartridge between 120mm and 160mm. But, like you, I do wish that Ells would slacken the HA just a touch to handle the bigger forks even better. I have seen guys with 66s on their Moments, but I have not ridden one. My guess is that would make for a very big feeling bike.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinch
    Interesting comments Chad. Might you be looking at getting another frame?

    I have to agree with everything you said. I have only test ridden a Moment, but my impressions were the same as you have stated here. The one I test rode had a 130mm Float on it. I was not impressed by the fork and was not impressed by the way the Moment handled with such a short travel fork. It climbed great, but left a lot to be desired on the descent. If I were to get one, I think I would get a 150mm thru axle fork. I personally think that either the new Zoke Z1 or the AMSL1 would be killer on the Moment. The AMSL1 even has the new travel adjust cartridge between 120mm and 160mm. But, like you, I do wish that Ells would slacken the HA just a touch to handle the bigger forks even better. I have seen guys with 66s on their Moments, but I have not ridden one. My guess is that would make for a very big feeling bike.
    That's what I'm getting, the SL with ATA. After riding with a Lyrik, it's hard to go back to those small stanchioned forks.

    I haven't really considered a different bike. There a few that I really like out there...if I did have to "magically" make a decision on something else, maybe Chumba or Ventana. Maybe I'd go back to playing hockey...?!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    That's what I'm getting, the SL with ATA. After riding with a Lyrik, it's hard to go back to those small stanchioned forks.
    66SL I presume? If so, excellent choice! I agree about the stanchions. Once you go bigger, you won't go back. The ATA should allow the fork to fit nicely on the Moment as well. The crown on those things is pretty wide, so watch for downtube clearance. I have the '06 66SL. It is a dream. Easily the best (read "funnest") fork I have ever been on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433


    hmmm...Isn't it supposed to be at 69 with a 130mm Fox?

    Ideally, we need to know the HA at a specifice A to C height, as opposed to the travel of the fork. Even two forks of the same brand have different As to C.

    This could explain the wandering your getting. Perhaps your bike is different than stated figures are supposed to be.

    It is supposed to be 69 deg with a 130mm Fox. So with 150mm, I would expect to be somewhere around 68 or 68.5 (~15mm AtoC length = 1/2 deg). But I keep measuring it, and I keep getting about 66.7 degrees. I dunno, its wierd. The fork is sporting a normal 530mm axle to crown (at 150mm). I have the larger front tire, but thats neglegable.

    I measured my road bike, and that was correct. I'm going to start measuring friends bikes, see what happens there. Perhaps I am uncovering a huge head angle scandal that has been hidden in the mountain bike community for years!!!!

    I dunno man, its got me scratching. If others had access to angle locators (like $10 at ACE) perhaps others would report their findings. I do suspect this to be the cause of my wandering front end though.

  14. #14
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    I've run both the '07 32mm version and the '07 36mm fork. I prefer the smaller fork. To me, the 36 felt like overkill on this bike. While the Moment has 6 inches of travel, the travel is firm and progressive. It is a great bike, but it just doesn't feel like a long travel bike to me. Putting the 140mm travel fork on it made the head angle around 68.5 yet you save a pound in weight and still get 5.5 inches of travel. Unless you're going big, the standard fork is fine.

    I ended up putting the 36 on my Nomad and it is a perfect compliment to that bike.

  15. #15
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    Well I just so happen to have a digital level that will give the degree of a slope. So I calibrated the level with the floor I was on and this is what I got:

    2005 Moment with Fox DHX 5.0 coil shock and 2007 Fox 36 Talas rc2
    WTB Weir wolf 2.3 front tire and Maxxis Ignitor 2.1 rear tire.

    160mm A-C 539.8 SA 70.8 HA 66.9
    130mm A-C 501.7 SA 72.0 HA 68.8
    100mm A-C 482.6 SA 73.6 HA 69.8

    Now I did not do this with a calculator and a large caliper. I used the level and a tape measure.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinch
    66SL I presume? If so, excellent choice! I agree about the stanchions. Once you go bigger, you won't go back. The ATA should allow the fork to fit nicely on the Moment as well. The crown on those things is pretty wide, so watch for downtube clearance. I have the '06 66SL. It is a dream. Easily the best (read "funnest") fork I have ever been on.
    Indeed! It was either that or a Lyrik coil U-turn. But they were about the same price ($4 apart) and I figured the Marz would be a tad lighter for virtually the same features (less the Maxle). Plus, for whatever the reason, I'm a Marzocchi guy (must be the marketing )

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaState
    I've run both the '07 32mm version and the '07 36mm fork. I prefer the smaller fork. To me, the 36 felt like overkill on this bike. While the Moment has 6 inches of travel, the travel is firm and progressive. It is a great bike, but it just doesn't feel like a long travel bike to me. Putting the 140mm travel fork on it made the head angle around 68.5 yet you save a pound in weight and still get 5.5 inches of travel. Unless you're going big, the standard fork is fine.

    I ended up putting the 36 on my Nomad and it is a perfect compliment to that bike.
    Yeah, the bike does run well at 140mm. I do, however, like the stiffness of the bigger stanchioned forks and thru axle. There's nothing like plowing thru shyte!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldsteele
    Well I just so happen to have a digital level that will give the degree of a slope. So I calibrated the level with the floor I was on and this is what I got:

    2005 Moment with Fox DHX 5.0 coil shock and 2007 Fox 36 Talas rc2
    WTB Weir wolf 2.3 front tire and Maxxis Ignitor 2.1 rear tire.

    160mm A-C 539.8 SA 70.8 HA 66.9
    130mm A-C 501.7 SA 72.0 HA 68.8
    100mm A-C 482.6 SA 73.6 HA 69.8

    Now I did not do this with a calculator and a large caliper. I used the level and a tape measure.
    There's a problem, using travel as a measurement point: There's 38.1mm of difference between the 130 and 160mm settings, not 30mm as one would expect. Conversely, theres a 19mm difference between the 100 and 130mm settings.

    So at what A-C measurement does Ellsworth determine HA? Looks like maybe 502mm. My Marzocchi AM 1 measured 545mm at 130mm of travel. What a difficult problem!
    Last edited by chad1433; 10-20-2006 at 07:58 AM.

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