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  1. #1
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    Epi vs. MotoLite

    I've had a chance to test ride an Epi and Truth on local trails. Loved the climbing ability and responsiveness of the Truth but it lacked the downhill confidence of the Epi. The Truth does come across a little twitchy due to its razor sharp responsivenes. The Epi was more approachable and enjoyable for me all the way around. The Epi is my favorite ride to date.................., however, its a pricey frame and the belt has gotten a little tighter than expected lately. I've done the dangerous thing of looking into other possiblities and considerations. The MotoLite still looks like an attractive contender and seems to have a loyal following. The Moto II price gets close to that of an Epi frame and might not be worth considering given how much I liked the Epi but the standard Moto is definitely a less painful financial layout.
    Does anyone have experience riding the Epi and MotoLite frames? If so, would you mind sharing your impressions of both in way of performance comparisons? I cannot seem to find a local Titus demo program and don't really want to have another shop literally ship me a bike to demo.
    Here's the bio: 5'10", 165lb. Aggressive XC, all mountain rider who likes good climbing efficiency. Not strictly technical climbs. Enjoy single track and technical downhills.
    Thanks for any input.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Down n Dirty
    I've had a chance to test ride an Epi and Truth on local trails. Loved the climbing ability and responsiveness of the Truth but it lacked the downhill confidence of the Epi. The Truth does come across a little twitchy due to its razor sharp responsivenes. The Epi was more approachable and enjoyable for me all the way around. The Epi is my favorite ride to date.................., however, its a pricey frame and the belt has gotten a little tighter than expected lately. I've done the dangerous thing of looking into other possiblities and considerations. The MotoLite still looks like an attractive contender and seems to have a loyal following. The Moto II price gets close to that of an Epi frame and might not be worth considering given how much I liked the Epi but the standard Moto is definitely a less painful financial layout.
    Does anyone have experience riding the Epi and MotoLite frames? If so, would you mind sharing your impressions of both in way of performance comparisons? I cannot seem to find a local Titus demo program and don't really want to have another shop literally ship me a bike to demo.
    Here's the bio: 5'10", 165lb. Aggressive XC, all mountain rider who likes good climbing efficiency. Not strictly technical climbs. Enjoy single track and technical downhills.
    Thanks for any input.
    This is not going to make your decision any easier, but I've had a chance to ride a Motolite
    not the newest version, but generally the same bike geometrywise and otherwise.
    The handling is awesome except for real tight steep granny climbs where it gets hard to
    keep the front end planted. The Epi's climbing angles are better, although I have not
    ridden an Ells. It seems, from the research I've done anyway, that there is some bogus
    marketing behind ICT, which has made me question whether its really worth paying all
    that extra money for an Ells when the classic strut based horst link design seems to be
    very well regarded by everybody. An alternative to the Motolite that has the same design
    but beefier tubing and (they claim anyway) a steeper, more normal handling on climbs
    seat angle would be the Chumba XCL The frame is about 1/2 lb heavier than the ML.
    I'm seriously considering one, but havent made my mind up yet. I'm basically in the same
    boat as you.

  3. #3
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    epi is my choice

    i had the same problem last november. I didn't know which one to get, the epi or the motolite. there is only 1 distributor of ellsworth and titus here in manila so i asked the dealer which one is better. I told them that I am not a bike techie and i don't know all the technical stuff so i asked the bike dealer to talk to me in lay man's terms. basically, this is what they said: both go up and down the mountain very well but the motolite goes up faster because of the frame design while the epi goes down faster because of the plush suspension. I opted for the epi and i have no regrets hope this helps

  4. #4
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
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    D&D,
    I have both bikes you are considering. If you do a search of some of my posts you will find a brief side by side comparison of the two bikes. Iíve had more time on the Epiphany since my comparison and I like the bike more and more every day.
    It sounds like money is a factor you are looking at in the purchase. The bikes are so similar I would push you towards the ML. You will not go wrong with the Titus. It flat out is a great bike. The Ellsworth is also a great bike it just costs more.
    Hope this helps! Let me know if you need specific questions answered.
    Vote with your feet.
    No bike is perfect!

  5. #5
    Time is not a road.
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    If money is an issue, I second the the Chumba XCL (even if it's not an issue!)...same Horst design as the other two bikes (generally) but in a bit stronger package and a nice price. This year's model will be 5" of travel and designed around the current crop of 140mm forks like the Pike and Fox 32s. I believe rear travel on the Epi is 120mm and so the real sweet spot up front is about 120mm, too, which, IMO, is too short for a good 5" trail bike...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    If money is an issue, I second the the Chumba XCL (even if it's not an issue!)...same Horst design as the other two bikes (generally) but in a bit stronger package and a nice price. This year's model will be 5" of travel and designed around the current crop of 140mm forks like the Pike and Fox 32s. I believe rear travel on the Epi is 120mm and so the real sweet spot up front is about 120mm, too, which, IMO, is too short for a good 5" trail bike...
    Rear travel on Epi is 5.25". This bike climbs amazingly, when I'm not crying about being out of shape...

    As for considering the Moto II over the Moto I, I prefer to avoid carbon as much as possible on Mt. bikes, so in my opinion, the Moto one looks to be the better of the two Titus's
    Hydrate or Die Trying

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by pachaven
    D&D,
    I have both bikes you are considering. If you do a search of some of my posts you will find a brief side by side comparison of the two bikes. Iíve had more time on the Epiphany since my comparison and I like the bike more and more every day.
    It sounds like money is a factor you are looking at in the purchase. The bikes are so similar I would push you towards the ML. You will not go wrong with the Titus. It flat out is a great bike. The Ellsworth is also a great bike it just costs more.
    Hope this helps! Let me know if you need specific questions answered.
    So pachaven, now that you've had more time on the Epi, which would you opt for
    on a long trail ride with as much time going up as going down ?
    Is there any difference in pedaling efficiency between the two ? Is one better for tech
    climbing ?

  8. #8
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    Thanks for the input

    The Epi is still my top choice, hands down. I've riden it, I loved it. If it weren't for the tight budget, at the moment, it would be a done deal. However, if the Motolite comes close in performance, as some have added, its hard to ignore that option as well which I could fast track now. It looks like the standard Moto is only available as a complete bike and the dealers I've talked to only offer the entry level kit. I guess they've been moving a lot of these completes and many are out of stock. The Chumba XCL looks like a nice frame too but it appears to lack the standover of the Epi and the Motolite. I could be wrong but judging from the pix I've seen so far. The 2 year warranty seems a little lean too but I might have to take a closer look anyway.
    I really appreciate the honest feedback on the Motolite on this forum. If money were no object I wouldn't even be having this discussion. Whatever feedback you've got is welcome.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Down n Dirty
    The Epi is still my top choice, hands down. I've riden it, I loved it. If it weren't for the tight budget, at the moment, it would be a done deal. However, if the Motolite comes close in performance, as some have added, its hard to ignore that option as well which I could fast track now. It looks like the standard Moto is only available as a complete bike and the dealers I've talked to only offer the entry level kit. I guess they've been moving a lot of these completes and many are out of stock. The Chumba XCL looks like a nice frame too but it appears to lack the standover of the Epi and the Motolite. I could be wrong but judging from the pix I've seen so far. The 2 year warranty seems a little lean too but I might have to take a closer look anyway.
    I really appreciate the honest feedback on the Motolite on this forum. If money were no object I wouldn't even be having this discussion. Whatever feedback you've got is welcome.
    One thing to be aware of is the standard Moto is only available with an rp2, so youre only
    choices are full on or full off. It would seem to me that if you climb a lot the Epi geometry
    would make for better handling. Check out Rbikes, you can get a budget build for a very
    reasonable price. As far as Chumba goes, their completes start as 2800, not too much
    above what the Moto complete goes for.
    2 year warranty is pretty standard in the industry.
    Ellsworth and Titus are both 2 years as well.

  10. #10
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
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    Quote Originally Posted by le_buzz
    So pachaven, now that you've had more time on the Epi, which would you opt for
    on a long trail ride with as much time going up as going down ?
    Is there any difference in pedaling efficiency between the two ? Is one better for tech
    climbing ?
    Well since you're calling me on it, I would pick the Epiphany. But the choice is hard to make. They are very good bikes, the two of them. I can't give efficiency of one over the other they both are great.
    Vote with your feet.
    No bike is perfect!

  11. #11
    Time is not a road.
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    Screw Titus...they forced out the founder of the company and produce the Moto in Taiwan...Get the Ellsworth.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAINpusher
    Rear travel on Epi is 5.25". This bike climbs amazingly, when I'm not crying about being out of shape...

    As for considering the Moto II over the Moto I, I prefer to avoid carbon as much as possible on Mt. bikes, so in my opinion, the Moto one looks to be the better of the two Titus's
    Moto Lite was designed to be a trail bike, a long travel XC bike. The carbon seat stays (and rocker arms) serve the purpose. (we are not talking about mountain like, dropping 10m height, right?). Another issue is anodizing on the Al Moto II frame.

    BTW, Epi was also in my list prior to choosing a moto lite. Money is no problem. Performance should be very close (thanks for the nice review, pac). My advice, when getting 2 comparable things with very close performance: factor in "look" because you are going to look at it for almost every day, and see if your riding style can adapt to the design.
    I believe Epi is one great frame, but the look doesnt grow on me. It does on pac (right, friend?)
    I have yet to put many mileage on the Moto, but from such limited riding time, it is very agile, and just blend nicely to my riding style; highly promising.
    As for style adaptation, Id like to share a story: I love tennis & use old Estusa rackets (Puma ProVantage). Many people tried & didnt like them, but it suits my style very very well. So, test ride them personally.

    As for Taiwan or no Taiwan: I believe most bars are made in Taiwan (incl. Easton). Ells specs their bike in their website with FSA, made in Taiwan. The highly praised SRAM are made in Taiwan. The ultra light crank bros Ti are made in Taiwan. The computers Ells designed their bikes with contains components made in Taiwan.
    As long as they are made nicely & with high precision, I dont think it matters where the things are made. I mean, it is an equipment full of technology to maximize your riding pleasure, not a status symbol like Panerai watches or Maserati Quattroporte parked in the garage

  13. #13
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
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    Quote Originally Posted by paneristi
    but the look doesnt grow on me. It does on pac (right, friend?)
    Yeah you got me on that one. I have the Epiphany so nice to my eyes now, it makes riding it more fun.
    Vote with your feet.
    No bike is perfect!

  14. #14
    Time is not a road.
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    I'm not concerned about the quality of Taiwanese products - it's very good. I'm concerned about the principle of it. If aluminum grew on rubber trees in Taiwan and they could make the best bikes because they had the best materials, it would make sense. It doesn't make sense to ship Al to them so they can shape and weld it (something we could do here) just to sell it back to us at a much higher cost. That's like "dumb" 101.

    Plus...no one seems to want to talk about the demise of Chris Cocalis...

    Anyway, check this out - a totally superb alternative should the need arise:

    '07 5 inch travel XCL!

  15. #15
    thats right living legend
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    The Epi is a flexy ninny compared to a Moto-Lite, which can be built as light as all hell and XC raced, or run with a coil shock and up to a 145mm TA fork.

  16. #16
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    The Epi is a flexy ninny compared to a Moto-Lite:
    Hey Black,
    What makes you say that?
    Vote with your feet.
    No bike is perfect!

  17. #17
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by pachaven
    Hey Black,
    What makes you say that?
    You can't even run a PIKE on an Epi.

    Ya want a light fast 5" race-y type trail bike, go Epi... or ML! Ya want a tough, nimble do it all, short travel AM bike, go Moto!!!

  18. #18
    Rolling
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    Titus suks man.....cuz this guy sez so!

    2007 Motolite Design Problem?

  19. #19
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    Titus suks man.....cuz this guy sez so!

    2007 Motolite Design Problem?
    Oh! I didn't relize "he" said so?

    Please disregard my former posts.

  20. #20
    thats right living legend
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    double douche
    Last edited by blackagness; 04-12-2007 at 08:45 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    Screw Titus...they forced out the founder of the company and produce the Moto in Taiwan...Get the Ellsworth.
    I can see we are all grown up . I'm in Australia so it's funny hearing about American's whinge about where bikes are made . How do you know Chris was forced out ?~? Did you speak with him directly ?~?

    Down n Dirty, I would recommend getting the bike you want. I know it's hard being a bit short of money and having to settle for something else. If you want and like the Epi I would get it. Trying to save a few hundred dollars and getting the cheaper bike is not worth it in the long run. Time is a funny thing... it seems to heal the financial wounds when you first made your purchase.... (well you may still be in debt).... but you start to think about other bikes and maybe I should sell and get a ______.... or upgrade this and that. It truly is hard to afford a bike and I have learned many lessons over the years trying to save money on a purchase and end up spending much more later to get what I wanted anyways.

    Really I'm trying to say is get the bike you truly want . If you are a bit short then try to wait and save a bit more because I think it's worth it in the long term. Increase a loan or do what you have too with the laws of course . Just get the frame you want so you can enjoy it for years to come !~!

  22. #22
    Time is not a road.
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    I can see we are all grown up . I'm in Australia so it's funny hearing about American's whinge about where bikes are made . How do you know Chris was forced out ?~? Did you speak with him directly ?~?
    I read his interview somewhere...he sounded less than happy about the change.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    I read his interview somewhere...he sounded less than happy about the change.
    Maybe so but he is a grown up boy and it was his choice. And he made it.

    To me reading between the lines it was more like the pains of letting go of your child... he may have truly felt it was best business decision to leave and did the right thing for the business... but it's hard to get over letting go of a child emotionally. It was a business decision that carried well into his private and personal life.

    I haven't spoke with him, so those are my thoughts. There are many companies around the world where the founder has left. It's business. But we can all imagine that it's more than business to a founder of a company... it was a life. There will be personal pain associated with a founder's departure that he will have to deal with.

  24. #24
    Time is not a road.
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    Maybe so but he is a grown up boy and it was his choice. And he made it.

    To me reading between the lines it was more like the pains of letting go of your child... he may have truly felt it was best business decision to leave and did the right thing for the business... but it's hard to get over letting go of a child emotionally. It was a business decision that carried well into his private and personal life.

    I haven't spoke with him, so those are my thoughts. There are many companies around the world where the founder has left. It's business. But we can all imagine that it's more than business to a founder of a company... it was a life. There will be personal pain associated with a founder's departure that he will have to deal with.
    He was put in a corner like an insignificant part of the business. He no longer had control of the business he began. Sugar coat it all you want, but he sold his soul to the devil to have fancy carbon bits and the contract came due. From what I read, he didn't decide to leave...but he could only have stayed as low man on the totem pole.

    So Titus as a company has lost its heart and soul in my eyes. That kind of corporate BS should have consequences. Chris Cocalis designed those bikes and now someone else is getting paid. I would never buy one, even if they were made out of solid freakin' gold.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    He was put in a corner like an insignificant part of the business. He no longer had control of the business he began. Sugar coat it all you want, but he sold his soul to the devil to have fancy carbon bits and the contract came due. From what I read, he didn't decide to leave...but he could only have stayed as low man on the totem pole.

    So Titus as a company has lost its heart and soul in my eyes. That kind of corporate BS should have consequences. Chris Cocalis designed those bikes and now someone else is getting paid. I would never buy one, even if they were made out of solid freakin' gold.
    Titus has not lost it's heart and soul. Maybe you should go and visit their little digs one day... they are fully committed to the cause of being for the rider and about the rider.

    So you were privy to Chris's exit contract and know what the conditions are ?~? Don't make exaggerations you cannot support. You have no idea what monetary conditions Chris was left with.

    I am not sure why you are so worked up over this. Please stop spreading misleading information that you do not know first hand.

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