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  1. #1
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    Ellsworth frames denting?

    I currently own 2 Jokers, 1 XC and 1 FR. I'm thinking of upgrading my XC bike to an Epiphany, but I am concerned with the thin tubes denting. I live in Montana and most of the trails I ride have many loose rocks that are often kicked up into the frame. I don't even worry about this with my Jokers, you just hear a bang and if it is real bad there may be a slight scratch to the anodized finish if that. I've noticed quite a few Truths on E-bay and elsewhere with dented tubing and have heard the Epiphany has the same problem. In my situation am I better off upgrading my single pivot with the Epiphany or upgrade some parts and keep my trusted Joker. Please just let me know real world facts and incidents. I would rather not read through all the "Ellsworths suck and of course they are going to dent and eventually break because I ride brand X and they are way better" posts. Thanks for all the help.

  2. #2
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    I think most 6 lb frames will dent. My Truth has a crease across the top tube from the brake lever swinging around and a slight dent in the left seat stay from coming down on a rock. Get a Moment if your worried the tubing is thicker.

  3. #3
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    No....

    most 6lb frames do not dent that easily. I was also considering an Evolve but the thin tubes and horror stories from current and past ellsworth owners shied me away from them. Just my 2 cents, the design is damn amazing but the thin walls for as much money as you pay is not worth it.

  4. #4
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    ...As the trolls continue....

    Gosh, I didn't know frames spontaneously dent...I thought only poor riding caused dents.....Goofy me.

    Funny in that I was looking in a window of a bike shop today near me and saw a used frame (no it was not an Ells, it was a Tur***) with a big dent in the head tube...wow, what a place to get a dent...Thick tube and there was a dent???...Crazy stuff. Must have been the brand name that caused that.

    That said, I rode my Truth a long time with a huge dent on the downtube that was caused by me crashing into a huge rock..I eventually,l sadly had to warranty it for a silly crack in the seat tube that formed months later, but was taken care of, despite the huge dent.

    bcyr, your first post is as impotent as a lesbian who just got a gender rearrangement surgery.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by af73
    most 6lb frames do not dent that easily. I was also considering an Evolve but the thin tubes and horror stories from current and past ellsworth owners shied me away from them. Just my 2 cents, the design is damn amazing but the thin walls for as much money as you pay is not worth it.

    most 6lbs frames will dent if crashed

    The thin tube horror stories *yawn*


    Learn to ride better. I'm sure if your Gary Fisher was hit the same the result would be the same.
    "[SIZE="3"][SIZE="2"]but I do not see anything in the world of suspension methods that is superior to the 4 Bar.

    Dave Turner[/SIZE][/SIZE]

  6. #6
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    better feedback please!

    I realize that if I bash my bike off a huge rock or slam my bars into the frame, that I'm going to cause a dent in the frame. I'm sure if I back into it with my vehicle, or throw it off a building on to a hand rail its probably going to dent as well. That is not what I'm asking! Will going down a decent at 25 to 30 mph and kicking up 2-3 inch rocks into the bottom of the frame cause dents in the down tube on an Epiphany? Please give me some real answers to my question, and advice for my situation. I've seen this happen on other bikes in my area and would rather keep my current ride that I do not have that problem with then spend over $2,000 on a new frame that will have that problem. Thanks for those that will give me some honest and true feedback.

  7. #7
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    I've seen plenty of Epi's blasted around in the Alps - all day decents no problems. If your that worried get a heavy bike and steer away from carbon too.
    "[SIZE="3"][SIZE="2"]but I do not see anything in the world of suspension methods that is superior to the 4 Bar.

    Dave Turner[/SIZE][/SIZE]

  8. #8
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    To get a full suspension frame down to the 6lb range a manufacturer will need to make the tubing thinner or utilize carbon fiber, etc. You drop one of those frames across a jagged rock it's likely to dent, end of story. One good thing about carbon is it doesn't tend to dent (other vulnerabilities aside). I kind of like the new Trek Fuel 9.0, OCLV main tubes and aluminum around the seat tube/BB and rear end.

  9. #9
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    Because of rocks hitting the downtube i always protect them with thick plastic "helicopter" tape. On my Moment it is pretty impacted in places, but it's done it's job well, underneath the frames in good condition. Got a dent in my chainstay though!
    I'd say get the bike and protect it, most bikes around that weight will not be carrying excess metal and the plastic is cheap insurance.
    You can't make a racehorse out of a donkey, but you can make a fast donkey.

  10. #10
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    most 6lbs frames will dent if crashed

    The thin tube horror stories *yawn*


    Learn to ride better. I'm sure if your Gary Fisher was hit the same the result would be the same.


    That's BS. Of course all frames have the possibility to dent when crashing, but that is not what I was responding to. My brake lever has hit my top tube several time without denting it, but it seems there are a higher percentage of Ellsworths with top tube denting from brake levers, as well as down tubes dented from rock dings. Sure, any frame is susceptible to denting but not with the frequency that the thin tubing of past Ellsworths have shown. I can ride fine enough with my GF, this has nothing to do with that. I was only commenting on the previous post that top tube denting is normal, because it is not and should not be normal for any bike manufacturer.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by af73
    most 6lbs frames will dent if crashed

    The thin tube horror stories *yawn*


    Learn to ride better. I'm sure if your Gary Fisher was hit the same the result would be the same.


    That's BS. Of course all frames have the possibility to dent when crashing, but that is not what I was responding to. My brake lever has hit my top tube several time without denting it, but it seems there are a higher percentage of Ellsworths with top tube denting from brake levers, as well as down tubes dented from rock dings. Sure, any frame is susceptible to denting but not with the frequency that the thin tubing of past Ellsworths have shown. I can ride fine enough with my GF, this has nothing to do with that. I was only commenting on the previous post that top tube denting is normal, because it is not and should not be normal for any bike manufacturer.
    What's your frame weigh in at? As far as brake lever dents....doesn't it depend a bit how hard it swings around and what part of the lever hits, not to mention what kind of lever it is? I really doubt there's any higher percentage of Ellsworth's denting any more than any other high end lightweight FS bike.

  12. #12
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    Fwiw, I put the first ding in my Truth about 4 weeks ago.

    Let me re-phrase that. Some knucklehead put the ding there while loading his bike into a truck rack next to mine and not being careful.

    I was a bit pissed but thats what happens to mountain bikes eventually.

    What allowed me to take that attitude was seeing another friends SC Nomad with an even bigger ding from a careless loader into the same truck, probably during the course of the same 1 week trip.

    If you are that worried, buy a cheaper bike or ride by yourself, carefully and softly.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcyr
    I currently own 2 Jokers, 1 XC and 1 FR. I'm thinking of upgrading my XC bike to an Epiphany, but I am concerned with the thin tubes denting. I live in Montana and most of the trails I ride have many loose rocks that are often kicked up into the frame. I don't even worry about this with my Jokers, you just hear a bang and if it is real bad there may be a slight scratch to the anodized finish if that. I've noticed quite a few Truths on E-bay and elsewhere with dented tubing and have heard the Epiphany has the same problem. In my situation am I better off upgrading my single pivot with the Epiphany or upgrade some parts and keep my trusted Joker. Please just let me know real world facts and incidents. I would rather not read through all the "Ellsworths suck and of course they are going to dent and eventually break because I ride brand X and they are way better" posts. Thanks for all the help.
    Hey bc,

    From my experience, the Epi tubing seems to be pretty durable. I have an Epi and ride in the Texas Hill Country area. Many of the trail's I frequent contain loose rocks- large and small. I've had plenty of rocks hit the bottom of the downtube while at speed. My initial thought was, oh crap, that's going to leave a dent. Much to my surprise..nothing!! It's hard to even discern where the rock made contact. I'm not saying it's impossible to dent, but I don't feel it as easy as some make it out to be. I know from experience. Also, you'll find the Anodized finish is extremely durable.

    Good luck with your decision. The Epi is an awesome ride.

  14. #14
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    I've been riding my Epiphany on trails with loose rocks and heard quite a few loud "pings" with no dents to show. The bike is expensive but I ride it hard. I am not insinuating that you powderpuff it around the trails, just trying to make my point obvious. I ride my Epiphany just like I would ride a much cheaper bike and it has performed great up to this point. I don't remember seeing a lot of threads dedicated to problems with dents on Ellsworth frames but then again I wasn't looking all that hard either. Sooo, in my experience the Epiphany frame has been very durable. That's my .02 cents

  15. #15
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    Am in agreement with above who find no problem with Epiphany and tube denting. I ride in the super rocky Lakes UK with many fast/loose rocky descents, with this type of terrain, sooner or later you're gonna get a big'un smacking the downtube. I've had a couple of gut wrenching clangers of this type on my Epi (big rock hits that is...), one so big that I immediately stopped to check the damage....to find...nothing/nada- just a pin prick in the anodising for a war wound. I have also dropped the bike heavily when I fell portaging across an unridable boulder field (like proper unridable...I'm not that Jey honest) landing square on the chainstay which left a nice scratch but no dent. I therefore conclude that the Epi tubing is surpisingly robust for its weight.

    You're right to consider tube strength of this sort as a deciding factor on frames when your local riding is rocky, I did and it's what put me off carbon frames for mtb fullstop - I've no doubt that carbon is strong and resistant to denting (possibly more so than Alu) but the danger with carbon is that after the inevitable rock on frame attack has happened, and it will, how do you know your frame is still ok? The Carbon could have failed internally from a rock strike and you'd be none the wiser untill it lets go completely later on, and after some heavy use do you want this praying on your mind? - at least with Alu, if there's damage you're gonna see it in the form of a dent.

    The tough quality of the Ellsworth frame finish is a big reason to recommend the frames, mine still looks fresh as a daisy after a year of hammering - while lesser frames would be looking tatty. Go Ells - great customer service here in the UK too

  16. #16
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    Tubing is very similar (read only about 3-4 manufactures) across framebuilders. As frames get lighter tubing gets thinner and generally larger dia. This makes it more susceptible to denting. So as a rule the lighter the bike from any manufacture the more susceptible it is to denting. Therefore ask not if ellsworths will dent but ask if you can live with dents.

    BTW - I have zero dents in my moment, knock on wood, and this is after many hard crashes.
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  17. #17
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    It's pretty rocky...

    here in Alaska and I have been bombing down loose trail on my ID at speeds over 30 for the last few years. I have heard a lot of rocks bouncing off the frame. The only dent I have is from crashing onto a rock within the first few weeks of having the bike.

  18. #18
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    Get a black frame and run a strip of black duct tape on the down tube to protect it from rocks being flung by the wheel . It prevents the dings and nicks from usual riding .

    If its dents through crashing you are worried about , tape aint goin to cut it you gotta just be more careful .

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    bcyr, your first post is as impotent as a lesbian who just got a gender rearrangement surgery.
    Wtf is the point/purpose of this statement? That was a legitimate question and he got at least some legitimate responses. It obviously wasn't an Ellsworth bash since he already owns two Ellsworth bikes.
    "I'll disintegrate over time if I expect my body to try to keep up with my mind" -BM

    Race, Rocks or Road...Just Ride

  20. #20
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    dents in Truth frame

    I've had my 2004 Truth for 2 years. I think it had been ridden one season before I bought ion e-bay from a guy who sold it to buy an Epi. He was big and had the AVA shock set up to a very firm setting. So I assume he rode the Truth hard and was probably pushing its limits on the drops. Nearly all my rides are a long steep climb followed by a steep fast decent, often on rocky fire roads. I hear loud dings probably every other ride that make me think "ouch!' but this has happended dozens of times and there are no dents. This bike has about 1500 miles on it. I'm about 160lbs and don't huck but there are water bars and other things I hit at up to 25mph. I'd say it's pretty durable and not worry about it

  21. #21
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    Epiphany in WV

    My 2 cents... I've been riding my Epiphany for two years now all around WV (such as Slatyfork, Monongahelia Nationa Forest) and it has taken the abuse very well. If you know much about West Virginia mountain biking it's as rocky and rooty as they come. I've had several crashes (many rough ones), and so far so good. Flying down a trail at blazing speeds with small pebble sized rocks bouncing off the frame is kind of hard to give an opinion on. In my experience, any bike that is struck just right is going to dent or scratch. Overall, I wouldn't worry. I've had many rocks strike my Epiphany and no dents. Like another poster suggested, if you're really concerned than you could use a frame guard (mud flap). Cheers!

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