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  1. #1
    JDOM for life
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    Does 1 1/2 lbs matter on the epiphany

    I have an 07 epiphany that weighs in at 27 3/4 lbs. I can lighten my bike to roughly 26 lbs if I use XC equipment such as Juicy Ultimates and Mavic SLRs. My questions is, will reducing my bike to 26 lbs increase my performance. I climb a lot with my bike and I don't do many high drops. I'm 5'10" and 175lbs. Thanks fellas!

  2. #2
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
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    Welcome! Youíre going to get as many different answers to your question as responses. I will say that I have never been unhappy with a lighter bike on the climbs. The Epi is just flat out fun to ride, and if you can increase your fun, why not! Do what ever you feel will make the ride better. As far as SL-Rís and Ultimateís, as you can see I am somewhat biased. Letís see your bike.
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  3. #3
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    Geez! you're ride looks so much similar to mine. I'll get some pics then post it right away.I love my epi and I just want the best parts for it! i treat my bike like my son hehehe

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakalboy
    I have an 07 epiphany that weighs in at 27 3/4 lbs. I can lighten my bike to roughly 26 lbs if I use XC equipment such as Juicy Ultimates and Mavic SLRs. My questions is, will reducing my bike to 26 lbs increase my performance. I climb a lot with my bike and I don't do many high drops. I'm 5'10" and 175lbs. Thanks fellas!
    Generally, a lighter bike will increase your performance. This is true as far as you don't compromise stiffness, durability and bike performance for the kind of riding you do. Now, remember that the first thing you should consider when you want to reduce weight, is rotational weight, mainly tires and rims.
    As for the equipment you mention, have you considered the XMax SL's? Same weight as the SLR's but $100 cheaper...
    EnRodadera
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  5. #5
    Rolling
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakalboy
    I climb a lot with my bike and I don't do many high drops. I'm 5'10" and 175lbs. Thanks fellas!
    3 pounds out of 200 is 1.5%.....can you notice 1.5%

    You can easily have a variation of 3 lbs of water in your body from one day to the next. Do you notice that?

    You get some benefit of a lighter bike in slinging it around but as far as ride efficiency, the real gain is in tires--especially if you running big tires now. When it comes to tires, it's not just the weight. It's the rolling resistance and big knobs and soft rubber slow you down a lot. in fact, I think this is more important than bike weight. Low profile 2.0 tires are fast and efficient. Since you are not a hucker and you like to climb, tires will give you the performance. THey will slow you down a little on the DH compared to big tires though.

    Having platform shocks and forks helps performance on climbing too. Less bob = more efficiency. The Ells does great in the rear but if you have a 5 inch fork up front sucking your out-of-the-saddle climbing juices, then you can do better with a platform like on a pike than reducing the weight of the bike.
    Last edited by lidarman; 03-27-2007 at 09:54 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    3 pounds out of 200 is 1.5%.....can you notice 1.5%

    You can easily have a variation of 3 lbs of water in your body from one day to the next. Do you notice that?

    You get some benefit of a lighter bike in slinging it around but as far as ride efficiency, the real gain is in tires--especially if you running big tires now. When it comes to tires, it's not just the weight. It's the rolling resistance and big knobs and soft rubber slow you down a lot. in fact, I think this is more important than bike weight. Low profile 2.0 tires are fast and efficient. Since you are not a hucker and you like to climb, tires will give you the performance. THey will slow you down a little on the DH compared to big tires though.

    Having platform shocks and forks helps performance on climbing too. Less bob = more efficiency. The Ells does great in the rear but if you have a 5 inch fork up front sucking your out-of-the-saddle climbing juices, then you can do better with a platform like on a pike than reducing the weight of the bike.
    Well, actually the question was "will reducing my bike to 26 lbs increase my performance?". And the answer, no matter your body weight, the kind of tires, suspension, frame, wheels, brakes, etc. is simple: YES. Now, as for what specific components have more influence in your performance, that's another story. If that is the case, the very first component I'd pay attention to, is personal fitness.
    EnRodadera
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  7. #7
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
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    Quote Originally Posted by blatido
    Generally, a lighter bike will increase your performance. This is true as far as you don't compromise stiffness, durability and bike performance for the kind of riding you do. Now, remember that the first thing you should consider when you want to reduce weight, is rotational weight, mainly tires and rims.
    As for the equipment you mention, have you considered the XMax SL's? Same weight as the SLR's but $100 cheaper...
    Blatido, Who makes the XMax SL's? Do you know if they are tubeless?
    Thanks
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by pachaven
    Blatido, Who makes the XMax SL's? Do you know if they are tubeless?
    Thanks
    XMax SL's, or Crossmax SL's, are made by Mavic. And yes, they're tubeless.
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  9. #9
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
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    Quote Originally Posted by blatido
    XMax SL's, or Crossmax SL's, are made by Mavic. And yes, they're tubeless.
    Crap! You are correct blatido. I went on the Mavic web site and the weights are the same. Oh well, I could have saved some money but I like the black look on my Epi.
    Good catch blatido, where were you when I was building my bike
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  10. #10
    Rolling
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    Quote Originally Posted by blatido
    Well, actually the question was "will reducing my bike to 26 lbs increase my performance?". And the answer, no matter your body weight, the kind of tires, suspension, frame, wheels, brakes, etc. is simple: YES. Now, as for what specific components have more influence in your performance, that's another story. If that is the case, the very first component I'd pay attention to, is personal fitness.
    Completely agree. Although in a strick sense, reducing bike does increase performance, I don't think it's at the level to notice because the other factors that are incidental are what really determine the performance gain.

  11. #11
    Time is not a road.
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    Really...1 1/2lbs? Skip a meal!

    Performance is relative which is what I think Rich is getting at - what kind of performance gain are you trying to acheive? Because when you point that 26lb bike downhill, is it going to pinball off of every rock in the Garden? 'Cause that sux, IMO.

    Case in point: On Sunday, I changed tires on my bike from heavy Schwalbe 2.4s to lighter Kenda Nevegal/Blue Groove 2.35s (don't buy them, they're the pits). Not only was I at least two gears slower, but overall performance was significantly degraded; things like traction, bump absorbtion and rolling resistance. I would bet that there is a full 400+g difference in tire weight, too.

    I do believe that ligher wheels will be of benefit, except, what about the hubs and bearings? For example, King's hubs are light, but they do drag more than some other brands - it's said that the old cup and cone style bearings are the most free moving of all but they require a lot of maintenance. Are you that kind of purist?

    It just depends on what you're trying to accomplish. I say add an additional workout into your week. Loose 1lb of body fat per week and you'll save a few hundred dollars!

  12. #12
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    My 2 cents...Unless you are competing with the Jones next door to trick out your bike, I think it may only matter if you are racing.

    Really nice bike by the way!
    Last edited by Valhalla; 03-27-2007 at 02:56 PM.

  13. #13
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    nevegals Bad???

    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    Kenda Nevegal/Blue Groove 2.35s (don't buy them, they're the pits).
    Chad 1433, can you please be more specific about your disliking of the Nevegals?

    I own a pair of the 2.1 DTC's and i love them for my terrain and riding style, so much that i bought a set of 2.35 Stickies for my Kona Stinky that i use on one specific trail network which is basically all rocks.

    cheers, thumb

  14. #14
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    Rotating mass is the most important. Period.

    Get the Crossmax wheels. I have both the SL and SLR (for the red hubs. Looks good).

    I don't think the weight of the bike is too important. A pound is not noticable really. I know. I dropped my bullit 2lbs and didn't notice.

    I added the Crossmax wheels to my Blur XC and new Epiphany and I really notice. The wheels roll way better than the DT Swiss XR 4.1dd wheels. Smoother and lighter. Better bearings. Much more acceleration. You feel it right away. In fact I have a set on my 11 yr old sons Blur too plus my Bullit. I love the wheels. Will make huge difference.

    Now I am stuck on tires. Part of equation. I like the 2.0 Karmas 460g and I just bought the Racing Ralphs and Nobbie Nics. They weigh 490g and 510g respectivally. Tread pattern looks good too. Haven't tried them. Love my Small Block Eights but the Karmas roll faster and feel quicker, however less traction. Also the Roll X Pros are nice. Favorite all around tire so far is the Small Block Eights. But for racing might use the Karmas and I will try the RR and NN.

    I love my Epiphany soo.. much that I am going to sell my Bullit and Blur XC. Read my writeup under Cove Hustler vs Epiphany. Might even get my son the Epiphany. We love to ride.

    doug

  15. #15
    Time is not a road.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thumbies
    Chad 1433, can you please be more specific about your disliking of the Nevegals?

    I own a pair of the 2.1 DTC's and i love them for my terrain and riding style, so much that i bought a set of 2.35 Stickies for my Kona Stinky that i use on one specific trail network which is basically all rocks.

    cheers, thumb
    The sidewalls on Kenda tires aren't that strong...the Schwalbes are better, which makes them more supple on rocky terrain. At 2.4, they're significantly wider, which helps them roll better over obstacles which means you keep more momentum through the rough, making you faster overall.

    Even the DTC tires wear fast, IMO. I've had the Big Betties on for almost a year now and they're holding up very well. All the Kendas I've had have worn down in 6 months of riding. I will admit that the 2.1s are much faster and are a pretty good all around XC tire, but not enough rubber for our local trails.

    Until you ride something better, you just don't know. I really only like the Sticky rubber for gripping the rocks around here, but man are they slow. You would really love the Betties on your rocky trails - they are magnitudes better.

  16. #16
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    Chad,

    Thanks for the input on Big Betties. I haven't tried them.

    I have used Karma's at Downieville with lots of rocks as well as Tahoe rocky trails with no flats. The traction is ok. The Small Block Eights kick butt. They are smooth and really grip. Roll well. I don't think for my race at the Sea Otter they will be perfect. I think the RR or Karmas will do. For Downieville Classic I will either use the RR or RR in rear and Nobbie Nick up front (I have both the 2.1 and 2.25) or the Small Block Eights. There is a dirt road climb and a rocky fast descent at the Downieville XC

    doug

    I really like the Karma's. They feel fast on everything. However they cause me to ride more cautiously downhill. The Eights let me rip. Still need to try the RR and NN.

  17. #17
    home slice chili sauce
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakalboy
    I have an 07 epiphany that weighs in at 27 3/4 lbs. I can lighten my bike to roughly 26 lbs if I use XC equipment such as Juicy Ultimates and Mavic SLRs. My questions is, will reducing my bike to 26 lbs increase my performance. I climb a lot with my bike and I don't do many high drops. I'm 5'10" and 175lbs. Thanks fellas!

    Asian lettering and a high performance muffler will greatly increase performance.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by blatido
    Generally, a lighter bike will increase your performance. This is true as far as you don't compromise stiffness, durability and bike performance for the kind of riding you do. Now, remember that the first thing you should consider when you want to reduce weight, is rotational weight, mainly tires and rims.
    As for the equipment you mention, have you considered the XMax SL's? Same weight as the SLR's but $100 cheaper...

    Performance wise, are they the same or does the Ti skewer make a difference. I use Crossmax XLs. Will shifting to these rims make any notable difference?

  19. #19
    Rolling
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarity
    Asian lettering and a high performance muffler will greatly increase performance.
    Nees some ground effects lighting...now that is pimp!



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