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  1. #1
    keepin' it rural
    Reputation: summud's Avatar
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    Crossthreaded BB Help!!!

    {posted this in Tooltime as well}

    ok, here are some pics of the situation. i ordered this bike and it came built. this last weekend i was removing the BB to install a frame guard and once i did i found some pretty screwed up threads. This BB has never been removed since it was delivered to me and once i took it out i never tried to re-screw it in. i called the shop and their fix is to have a local shop re-chase the threads. i kind of feel like this is a band aid from them to avoid having to give me a new front triangle. what is everyones opinion on this i've never had to deal with a crossthreaded shell before so im not sure if this damage can be made right by just re-chasing. NOTE: this is an ellsworth frame and i did see some shot peen ball lingering in the shell when i took the BB out, so it might of been the issue of the shop didnt clean out the threads before installing the BB. thanks in advance
    Last edited by summud; 06-06-2007 at 03:13 PM.

  2. #2
    Rolling
    Reputation: lidarman's Avatar
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    Ouch...
    You might be able to chase those threads but it sure looks like a lot of galling occurred.

    I think you should contact another bike shot and maybe even a machine shop to get their opinion on whether there is enough integrity to those threads.

    You are sure having some issues with this bike....chain gouging and this.

  3. #3
    Time is not a road.
    Reputation: chad1433's Avatar
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    First off...

    Where did you get the frame? Everyone should know so they can beware...

    A good shop can chase the threads and you could get a new BB for $30 or so. That'd be the quick fix. I wonder if you'd have any success negotiating with the shop you purchased the frame from.

  4. #4
    Time is not a road.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    Ouch...
    You might be able to chase those threads but it sure looks like a lot of galling occurred.

    I think you should contact another bike shot and maybe even a machine shop to get their opinion on whether there is enough integrity to those threads.

    You are sure having some issues with this bike....chain gouging and this.
    Could an improperly fitted BB be the cause of him dropping the chain into the pivot?

  5. #5
    keepin' it rural
    Reputation: summud's Avatar
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    tell me about it...

    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    Ouch...
    You might be able to chase those threads but it sure looks like a lot of galling occurred.

    I think you should contact another bike shot and maybe even a machine shop to get their opinion on whether there is enough integrity to those threads.

    You are sure having some issues with this bike....chain gouging and this.
    yeah it all started with dropping the chain and gouging the pivot, so i took it apart to install a frame guard and found all this, i have been dealing with the shop and their suggestion so far is to have a local shop re-chase it and see if that works, i sent the pics to ellsworth to and the guy i was talking to there said it should be alright, so i guess i'll try that first, but i told the guy at the shop i bought it from that im not looking for a band-aid fix, their mechanic put it in wrong they should make it right. i asked if they were gonna send me another BB and i was told he had and extra one that he would send me...extra! that better not mean used!! ( im not saying who the shop is yet, until this is all settled and they have the opportunity to make it right, i personally want a new front triangle but i haven't confronted that 800lb gorilla yet. for now they are just wanting to "fix" it. )

  6. #6
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    The shop really should have cleaned the frame out prior to install. It's an easy miss when rushing but they shouldn't be rushing on such a nice frame.

    I've been riding a road bike with chased threads for 2 years now. Road salts/water and lack of lubed BB threads welded the original BB partially into the frame. When I pulled it apart the first time I tore out half the threads. The threads looked about like yours. Since having them chased I've always used teflon pipe tape when installing BB's and haven't had any creaking or other issues. I'd make sure the shop that built the bike knows, if the chasing doesn't work perfectly, you will need a replacement front triangle. Then I'd get the threads chased and hope for the best. It'll probably be fine for many years. Good luck.

  7. #7
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    sux...

    that realy hurts man,
    There's no way that i would stand for the band-aid fix on this one. Yeah, sure maybe chasing the threads, teflon tape etc will get your rolling, but what about 1, 2 or 5 years down the road when those half threads decide to give out? By that time you will have virtually zero chance of getting any decent customer service.

    failing getting a new front triangle (which is the ONLY thing that would satisfy me), I believe that RF has a different cup design for their FR/Downhill BB which thread significantly deeper into the BB.

    taken from their website:
    "Features 35% more thread engagement and substantially thicker walls than the Atlas cups for greater durability in big-hit situations."

    a possible compromise.....

    I also noticed the damage to the outside of the cups, from the BB removal/install tool.
    Was this damage done by the shop that installed the BB? or by you when you took off the cups? The damage is only one one side of the groves but i cannot tell for sure if this was done on install or removal (depends on which side the pictured cup is for). This may be a weak argument, but if, the groove damage was done when you tried removing the cups, you can argue that it is obvious that you never tried to install the cups because there is no obvious damage to the install side of grooves (especially with the extra force required to strip the threads)...base this on your:
    1. crappy tools
    2. poor technique (eg. slipping tool)
    3. additional force required to remove the cups b/c of the screwed up threads.

    If, on the other hand, the damage is on the install side of the grooves, you could claim that this is obvious proof that the mechanic initially installed the cups was a bonehead, and had to reef extra hard on the tool to get the cups all the way into the frame because of the bad threads.

    One more thought:
    do you know for sure that the threads were chased prior to the initiall install? Or at least does the shop claim that they did this? Were you charged for it? Did you specifically ask them not to?

    Any respectable shop should insist to chase these threads prior to install and furthermore they would also insist on facing the BB shell (there is almost no chance of them chasing without facing). Since your BB shell was obviously NOT faced (since there is still paint on the surface that would be faced...this is the surface that the cups would bottom out on), this calls their whole install procedure into question. There is little chance that they faced the headtube before headset install as well.

    Good luck getting a new frame, your most certainly deserve it (in my opinion)
    thumb

  8. #8
    keepin' it rural
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    Quote Originally Posted by thumbies
    that realy hurts man,
    There's no way that i would stand for the band-aid fix on this one. Yeah, sure maybe chasing the threads, teflon tape etc will get your rolling, but what about 1, 2 or 5 years down the road when those half threads decide to give out? By that time you will have virtually zero chance of getting any decent customer service.

    my thoughts exactely, from the feed back i've gotten and from talking to ellsworth, they feel it should be alright, but as you said im more worried about down the road. if it get loose or squeaks two years from now...who knows.

    im gonna take it to my LBS and have them evaluate it before they do anything. and if they have any reservations im calling the shop right then and their so they speak to the mechanic looking at the BB, because they are on the other side of the country from me so all they have seen is the pics i posted here.

    To their credit they haven't tried to blame me saying "well how do we know you didnt try to put it back in and do this to it?" which technically speaking they can make that argument and then it becomes stale mate. but part of me thinks they might be saving that if i come and outright demand a new triangle.

    as far as the marks on the cup, that was me taking the thing off, it was a mother trying to get that thing off, that was the first sign i new somehting wasnt right, i used the right tool, i have the shimano external BB tool. but i damn near gave myself a hernia taking it off, even after it broke unscrewing it was tough.

  9. #9
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    chase & face....

    still look into the chase and face issue,
    did you ask for it?
    did you pay for it?
    did they say that they did it?
    And since we already know that they didnt, well why the hell not?

    perhaps have a friend inquire with the specific shop about what is involved in building up a custom bike (ie. do they specify or insist on chase/face and if not why not?)

    Oh, one other thing, last week i replaced the bearings in my RF Deus BB, and when we removed the inner sleeve (tthe plastic piece that takes up the space between the 2 cups), there were 3 irregularly shaped bits of hard material stuck to the grease on the outside of the sleeve. I kicked myself later for not foaming the junctions in my frame then and there. I also didnt keep the bits of material. I cannot say what they were, they didnt look immediately like metal, they were more of a greyish/blueish color. They were bb (small ball bearing) sized but irregularly shaped. At the time i just kinda shrugged and wiped them off and promptly forgot about them, although i do remember slathering a lot of grease on the outside of this sleeve. I think it was subconscious at the time, but hopefully it serves to catch any other deutritis that might be floating around in the frame.
    Oh, and yep, my seatpost is also scratched to hell. It just sort of happened and then went away. I just swore a lot, never really found the cause and i never took it any farther than that. I think its finally time for me to make the effort and foam the junctions!
    Thumb

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