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  1. #1
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    Comments on my Ellsworth Moment build?

    Got a bike on order. Any comments on these components? Looking at aggressive XC and getting into epic and all-mountain riding. Already own a hardtail and want more bike.

    Frame:Ellsworth Moment Frame Black 19" Fox DHX 6"
    Fork:Fox Talas RLC Fork (2005) Disc Only with FREE King Headset
    Stem:Thomson X4 Stem Black 90mm 100� for 31.8mm Bar
    Handlebar:Easton EC70 Monkeylite Carbon Bar (2005) Nanotube Carbon 26" Low Rise for 31.8mm OS Stem
    Grips: Yeti Hard Core 2-ply Grip Black/gray
    Shifters:SRAM X.9 Trigger Shifters
    Front Derailleur: Shimano XT M761
    Rear Derailleur: SRAM� X.9 2005 Long Cage
    Front Brake:Hope Mono M4 Disc Brake 180mm Rotor
    Rear brake:Hope Mono Mini Disc Brake 160mm Stainless Rotor
    Seatpost:Thomson Elite Black, 27.2mm x 410mm
    Saddle:WTB Laser V Stealth
    Crankset:Raceface Deus XC X-Type Black 175mm 22/32/44
    Chain: SRAM� PC-99
    Cassette:Shimano XT� M760 11-34
    Tubes: Salsa Tube 26" x 1.9-2.125" 34mm Presta Valve
    Front Tire: Kenda Tomac Blue Groove Tire 26 x 2.35" Kevlar Bead
    Rear Tire:Kenda Tomac Nevegal Tire 26x2.35" Kevlar StickE LC

    Wheels
    Mavic XM819 Disc Rim Black 32-hole
    Shimano XT� M756 Disc Hubs Black 32-hole
    DT Swiss Competition Spokes Black, 14/15 Gauge
    DT Swiss Nipples Brass, 2.0mm, Black
    Laced 3 Cross, Both Sides

  2. #2
    Drinker w/ Riding Problem
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    Buy me one while you're at it! choice of grips sucks! i need a medium!

  3. #3
    Crumb-tumbler
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    Ah hah, now who's fishing for compliments? Sweet ride.
    Quote Originally Posted by mward
    Everyone is so angry, and they're even angrier if people don't think like they do. Damnit, don't you think like me? NO? DIE!!! It's like road rage. Just because people aren't discussing exactly what you want, as you like it to be discussed, they must be all wrong. That's just all wrong. Your disgust at my disgust at your disgust is disgusting.

  4. #4
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    Nice build! Are you set on a talas fork though? Don't get me wrong its a sweet fork, but I love my AM1 and it seems to fit this frame perfectly...You'll love the bike!

    FB

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatB
    Nice build! Are you set on a talas fork though? Don't get me wrong its a sweet fork, but I love my AM1 and it seems to fit this frame perfectly...You'll love the bike!

    FB
    Funny you mention that. The AM1 or TALAS decision is the one I am most ponderring. I asked the the shop putting my bike together and was told the AM1 is an unknown being so new. I weigh about 210 or so fully loaded down with gear and water and was thinking the AM1 might be a good choice. The TALAS turns me on due to weight. I also own a Fox 80x and had to have a warranty service. Had no problems dealing with Fox and was very happy with the whole process.

    Forgot to mention the price difference. My original budget was $3,000. Gone past that but have to make at least some cuts. That is why I don't get King hubs.

    With the AM1 on my 6" travel bike would you go with the 110-130mm or the 130-150mm? I ride mostly aggressive XC right now on a hardtail with 80mm up front. Looking forward to more epic riding. Plan on putting about 700 off road miles on the bike this summer.
    Last edited by tubadude; 03-18-2005 at 11:15 PM. Reason: left something out

  6. #6
    aka greyranger
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    Get the am-1 in the 130-150. The 150 will balance the suspension with the 6 inch rear. I am riding the am sl, only one ride but it great so far, so much adjustability.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by tubadude
    Funny you mention that. The AM1 or TALAS decision is the one I am most ponderring. I asked the the shop putting my bike together and was told the AM1 is an unknown being so new. I weigh about 210 or so fully loaded down with gear and water and was thinking the AM1 might be a good choice. The TALAS turns me on due to weight. I also own a Fox 80x and had to have a warranty service. Had no problems dealing with Fox and was very happy with the whole process.

    Forgot to mention the price difference. My original budget was $3,000. Gone past that but have to make at least some cuts. That is why I don't get King hubs.

    With the AM1 on my 6" travel bike would you go with the 110-130mm or the 130-150mm? I ride mostly aggressive XC right now on a hardtail with 80mm up front. Looking forward to more epic riding. Plan on putting about 700 off road miles on the bike this summer.
    I've got the 130-150 AM1. I would say that when set at 150 the front end feels light when climbing until you switch the ETA, then the front end comes under control quite nicely. In 130 mode I don't really need the ETA for climbing...front end stays down nicely. I've only had the AM1 for a few months and becuase of the winter conditions around here I don't have a ton of time on it, so I cant comment on the reliability, BUT, search in the suspension forums and on the turner board, and you'll see a ton of happy AM1 owners. Fox is a hard act to beat, but comparing the feel of the AM1 to the Vanilla RLC I've used for the last few years, the AM1 feels much better, IMO. It is expensive though and can be rough on your budget, but I don't think you would regret it. That being said, you probably wont regret the Talas either! I'm about 250 and will use it as an do all bike which is mostly cross country oriented. But I have to be honest here when I say if I have to go all day on it, it could be tough since its a 30+lb bike (with 2.35 on front & rear). I would much rather take my "wifes" 5 spot for a 4+ hour ride, which is a bit more XC oriented than the Moment. For shorter rides, I absolutely love my Moment, especially when going down hill...it climbs well, but you pay for it in the end!

    FB

  8. #8
    Ride Instigator
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    Add a coupla' grams, save a few bucks....

    At your 210lbs and this being a trail (play) bike and not a bike built for racing you can get away with a little more weight and never notice the difference...take a good dump before you go ride and all will be the same.

    Go with alloy bars instead of carbon. Personally, I don't trust carbon bars for trail bashing and the weight savings over alloy (the only advantage to carbon) is minimal.

    Rims...You'v selected UST rims and you're going to use tubed tires. I'm assuming you want to save a little weight but again, don't worry about it. Save some $$ and go with XM321 rims ($40) instead of the 819s ($75). My XM321s actually weighed 540g and the 819s claimed weight is 465g.

    Hubs...Nothing wrong with XTs, they're cheap and reliable (for a while) but a little on the heavy side. With the $$ you saved on the changes I suggested above you might be able to get into a little nicer/lighter cartridge bearing hubset. Hope? Hadley??

    Tubes...Those Salsa tubes probably cost $6 each. Go with the garden variety...10 pack for <$20. Probably more puncture resistant anyway and tubes don't last forever, you'l get yourslf into that cycle of paying $6 per flat when the cheepie tubes will only cost you >$2 per flat....even less if you're a cheapskate like me and patch them

  9. #9
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    Welcome, i think you'll love the bike- my thoughts. Have you considered the specially valved Float air shock, it would save a pound in weight and is probably cheaper than the DHX, i've got both and actually prefer the air shock- it's super supple. You need to consider your weight and type of riding. Secondly, if your thinking of TALAS forks then why not get Vanilla's, you don't need to be able to lower forks below 130mm- it's something i personally would never use with this frame, even for long climbs. The Vanilla's are virtually the same weight, cheaper, simpler and plusher [ although the TALAS are amazingly plush themselves ]. I do have carbon bars but don't feel totally happy riding with them and am constantly checking the little nicks and gouges that they pick up, this is why they're usually sat in the toolbox and my ally bars are on the bike, so no i wouldn't buy carbon bars again. The rear brake i would change to a mono m4, we're only talking a couple of grams difference and it's a much stronger brake and lastly i went tubeless ages ago and wouldn't go back- use washing up liquid to fit them, put latex in them and use the Panaracer puncture kit when/ if needed. If you stick with your original build it's still gonna be great, but those are my recommendations. Enjoy .XT hubs are o.k. [bit heavy] but if you can, stretch for some Hope Bulbs- a lot cheaper than Kings but still excellent.
    Last edited by A MAN CALLED HORSE; 03-19-2005 at 05:28 PM.

  10. #10
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    Well thats two votes against carbon bars, so I thought I'd make one vote for them! I have used a monkey lite riser bar for the last few years and love it. I've never had one break on me and it dampens the rough stuff abit.

    Brakes brake brakes...right now I'm using some juicy sevens and could not be happier with them. This is my first hydraulic system and so far so good. Prior to the juicy sevens, I have used the same set of Avid mechanicals and they were stellar. Cant beat the price either at ~$50 each...maybe one place to save a little cash and put the savings towards something else on the bike.

    fb

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricko
    At your 210lbs and this being a trail (play) bike and not a bike built for racing you can get away with a little more weight and never notice the difference...take a good dump before you go ride and all will be the same.
    That dump is going to do nothing for the added weight on the bike i have to toss around with my arms and legs under me over several hours of riding. I am not riding a road bike and staying seated on extended straight climbs. I gotta toss this bike around with my arms and more weight means more energy consumed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ricko
    Go with alloy bars instead of carbon. Personally, I don't trust carbon bars for trail bashing and the weight savings over alloy (the only advantage to carbon) is minimal.
    Carbonphobia. I suffer from it a little also, but if it was REALLY a terrible concern than lawsuits would have ended production years ago. I think I will take this risk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ricko
    Rims...You'v selected UST rims and you're going to use tubed tires. I'm assuming you want to save a little weight but again, don't worry about it. Save some $$ and go with XM321 rims ($40) instead of the 819s ($75). My XM321s actually weighed 540g and the 819s claimed weight is 465g.
    I wanted stronger rims than 717s but am also careful of the weight implications. 150 grams of total added rotational mass that far out on the edge of the wheel is a good bit. I actually DO want UST but the the Blue Groove UST is not available to me yet. I want to try the Blue Groove and Nev in 2.35. i use 2.1 now and am curious if 2.35 will help out with the roots and rocks in my area. I spent too much time replacing punctured tubes last summer and am looking forward to a larger selection of lighter weight 2.35 UST tires which I hope will come out this year.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ricko
    Hubs...Nothing wrong with XTs, they're cheap and reliable (for a while) but a little on the heavy side. With the $$ you saved on the changes I suggested above you might be able to get into a little nicer/lighter cartridge bearing hubset. Hope? Hadley??
    I would like some Hope hubs, but replacing the XTs with Hope Bulb hubs raises my price by $200 and only looses me 110grams at the lowest non rotational weight locations on the entire bike. Sure they DO rotate, but not in a way which has a great effect. They ARE unsprung weight which affects suspension but I don't think they will have THAT much of an effect compared to the $200 I could save.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ricko
    Tubes...Those Salsa tubes probably cost $6 each. Go with the garden variety...10 pack for <$20. Probably more puncture resistant anyway and tubes don't last forever, you'l get yourslf into that cycle of paying $6 per flat when the cheepie tubes will only cost you >$2 per flat....even less if you're a cheapskate like me and patch them
    I agree there. the Salsa tubes are what were speced by the builder. I thought I would give them a try, but replacements are gonna be cheapo Performance Bike specials.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by A MAN CALLED HORSE
    Have you considered the specially valved Float air shock, it would save a pound in weight and is probably cheaper than the DHX, i've got both and actually prefer the air shock- it's super supple. You need to consider your weight and type of riding.
    I keep reading so much about everyone who is over 180-200lbs loving coils that I thought I would go that route. PLUS the place I am buying the frame from is having a HUGE sale on black Moment frames that have the DHX shock. i get it cheaper than the air shock. Hella good deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by A MAN CALLED HORSE
    Secondly, if your thinking of TALAS forks then why not get Vanilla's, you don't need to be able to lower forks below 130mm- it's something i personally would never use with this frame, even for long climbs. The Vanilla's are virtually the same weight, cheaper, simpler and plusher [ although the TALAS are amazingly plush themselves ].
    I really like being able to custom tune the air spring instead of having to swap springs. If I was to go spring them I am more inclined to spend the money on the Marz AM1 instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by A MAN CALLED HORSE
    I do have carbon bars but don't feel totally happy riding with them and am constantly checking the little nicks and gouges that they pick up, this is why they're usually sat in the toolbox and my ally bars are on the bike, so no i wouldn't buy carbon bars again.
    I have a little carbonphobia also, but can't see Easton staying in business if they were getting buried in lawsuits from a mountain of failing carbon bars.
    Quote Originally Posted by A MAN CALLED HORSE
    The rear brake i would change to a mono m4, we're only talking a couple of grams difference and it's a much stronger brake
    Why would I need a stronger rear brake than the mono mini? I have V-brakes now and the rear especially is way too strong. I have Koolstop pads and they help, but I am looking forward to more front brake. I also save $40 and 120 grams with the rear mini.
    Quote Originally Posted by A MAN CALLED HORSE
    and lastly i went tubeless ages ago and wouldn't go back- use washing up liquid to fit them, put latex in them and use the Panaracer puncture kit when/ if needed. If you stick with your original build it's still gonna be great, but those are my recommendations. Enjoy .XT hubs are o.k. [bit heavy] but if you can, stretch for some Hope Bulbs- a lot cheaper than Kings but still excellent.
    UST will come later when there are some more 2.35 UST tire choices. The XT hubs saved me $400 over King hubs. I'll ask for a new wheelset for Xmas.

  13. #13
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    very nice sir!

    Quote Originally Posted by tubadude
    Got a bike on order. Any comments on these components? Looking at aggressive XC and getting into epic and all-mountain riding. Already own a hardtail and want more bike.

    Frame:Ellsworth Moment Frame Black 19" Fox DHX 6"
    Fork:Fox Talas RLC Fork (2005) Disc Only with FREE King Headset
    Stem:Thomson X4 Stem Black 90mm 100� for 31.8mm Bar
    Handlebar:Easton EC70 Monkeylite Carbon Bar (2005) Nanotube Carbon 26" Low Rise for 31.8mm OS Stem
    Grips: Yeti Hard Core 2-ply Grip Black/gray
    Shifters:SRAM X.9 Trigger Shifters
    Front Derailleur: Shimano XT M761
    Rear Derailleur: SRAM� X.9 2005 Long Cage
    Front Brake:Hope Mono M4 Disc Brake 180mm Rotor
    Rear brake:Hope Mono Mini Disc Brake 160mm Stainless Rotor
    Seatpost:Thomson Elite Black, 27.2mm x 410mm
    Saddle:WTB Laser V Stealth
    Crankset:Raceface Deus XC X-Type Black 175mm 22/32/44
    Chain: SRAM� PC-99
    Cassette:Shimano XT� M760 11-34
    Tubes: Salsa Tube 26" x 1.9-2.125" 34mm Presta Valve
    Front Tire: Kenda Tomac Blue Groove Tire 26 x 2.35" Kevlar Bead
    Rear Tire:Kenda Tomac Nevegal Tire 26x2.35" Kevlar StickE LC

    Wheels
    Mavic XM819 Disc Rim Black 32-hole
    Shimano XT� M756 Disc Hubs Black 32-hole
    DT Swiss Competition Spokes Black, 14/15 Gauge
    DT Swiss Nipples Brass, 2.0mm, Black
    Laced 3 Cross, Both Sides
    What a fantastic build...and frankly, it sounds like you have done your research so I would say a virtually perfect build.

    I only have one comment/opinion that you can take or leave.....

    I personally feel the Talas is out of place on a bike like the Moment. While the Talas is a nice fork, it is simply not up to the game that a Moment can play. It is a nice fork in my humble opinion for a typical 5" All Mountain bike. I have owned 2 Fox forks with 1 being a Talas and while they were ok, they never did much for me, especially the Talas. The Talas in true All Mountain riding I feel crosses the threshold of its ability pretty quick (yes, even the 2005s from my experience, albeit limited time on a 2005) and especially when going through the rough at speed.

    Given you are getting standard quick release hubs, I have yet to ride another fork better in every way (especially the color ) than the Marz AM 1 fork. It is just an incredible fork. When I replaced the Talas with the AM 1 on my trailbike, it was night and day. While I had a great time with the Talas, I continue to be impressed with how much more robust and smoother the AM 1 is over the Talas and when in 150mm mode, incredible. The Talas does however have 2 advantages over the AM 1 and those of course are weight and on-the-fly travel adjust. But with the ETA on the AM 1 allowing you to instantly drop the front end whenever you want, who cares. In fact, you can drop it just as low when in 150mm mode as you can when in 130mm mode which is sweet.

    Cheers and keep us posted.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    What a fantastic build...and frankly, it sounds like you have done your research so I would say a virtually perfect build.
    I hate having buyer's remorse. I am pretty sure most of my choices will prevent it.
    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    But with the ETA on the AM 1 allowing you to instantly drop the front end whenever you want, who cares. In fact, you can drop it just as low when in 150mm mode as you can when in 130mm mode which is sweet.
    Can you compare the ease of using the ETA vs dropping the TALAS on the fly for climbs? Do you just push a button on the Marz and have to click 13 times with the TALAS?

    I have heard a couple of people comment on the AM1 being "better". Can you give me some more tangable descriptions? What does "better" really mean?

    Also I have noticed no one saying anything about the Deus XC cranks. I chose them over XTs to save 50 grams and I too have a little of that fight the man Shimano thing. I looked at the Atlas cranks but they are about 140grams more.

    I am already committing to 30lbs when I started out with a goal of 28lbs. I went with heavier tires and hubs and the coil rear shock cause I felt it was worth it. I am not totally sure of the front shock and the cranks though.

  15. #15
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by tubadude
    I hate having buyer's remorse. I am pretty sure most of my choices will prevent it.

    Can you compare the ease of using the ETA vs dropping the TALAS on the fly for climbs? Do you just push a button on the Marz and have to click 13 times with the TALAS?

    I have heard a couple of people comment on the AM1 being "better". Can you give me some more tangable descriptions? What does "better" really mean?

    Also I have noticed no one saying anything about the Deus XC cranks. I chose them over XTs to save 50 grams and I too have a little of that fight the man Shimano thing. I looked at the Atlas cranks but they are about 140grams more.

    I am already committing to 30lbs when I started out with a goal of 28lbs. I went with heavier tires and hubs and the coil rear shock cause I felt it was worth it. I am not totally sure of the front shock and the cranks though.
    Fair enough....

    Travel adjust: If you feel you need to drop below 130mm travel while retaining more than 1" of travel, the Talas wins. The Talas of course can crank down to 90mm is it?? which of course still retains 90mm of travel. The AM 1 can drop down virtually all the way and can do so immediately. With the AM 1 you can simply flip the switch on the ETA, push down and you are INSTANTLY at a very reduced travel, regardless of whether you are in 130mm or 150mm mode, or anywhere in between. So in terms of QUICKLY getting the front dropped, there is no comparison in speed and simplicity with the win going to the AM 1. On-the-fly travel goes to the Talas. To switch the travel on the AM 1 you need to get off the bike, kneel down by the fork, pull down on the stem/bars, and simply spin the dial to go from 150mm to 130mm. To go the other direction (130mm to 150mm), no need to fuss with the bars since you are then going with the pressure. Note that there is no need to repressurize the air as the manual suggests. And if you are not familiar with the ETA, to release the fork to the full travel, you simply flip the switch the other way and boom...done. Keep in mind that the ETA is not intended to be ridden hard and as such, should only be used for climbs which frankly, is the only time I would be dropping the front anyway but you need to be aware of that if you are not already.

    Better: Simply stated in my mind, the AM 1 feels like a great coil fork and the Fox feels like a great air fork. Both are great, but the plushness cannot compare. If you have ridden a Marz Z1 FR for example, the AM 1 literally feels just like that when in 130mm mode. When in 150mm mode, the AM 1 literally feels like a Z150 fork. While I could perhaps tell the difference between a Z1 FR QR20 and the AM 1 in 130mm mode when going down the ski slopes on some gnarly terrain, due to the more robust crown on the Z1 FR and the 20mm thru axle, there is no difference from my experience in All Mountain riding conditions. The Fox has improved the issues with the Talas in its mid travel but to me, it just feels like it "hangs" in mid-travel and does not flow with the terrain anything like the AM 1 and this is true especially at speed. The compression adjustments on the AM 1 are fantastic. I really, really love the TST cartridge that this and a couple of other Marz forks use this year. It is effectively a bladder type of technology in that fork leg supposedly similar to some motocross forks. The TST is sweet because it is actually a bell and whistle on a fork that actually make a difference with 5 clicks, on the fly, chaning the high/low speed compression accordingly whereas on the Fox, the Compression stuff is a friggin joke and does nothing in my humble opinion. Basically, you feel the biggest difference between the 2 forks when at any sort of speed through rough stuff where the AM 1 just tracks SO much better. The plushness cannot compare.

    Deus cranks: Not sure you should expect anybody to say anything, given your intended riding. I have Deus cranks on my XC bike and love them and frankly, they are awesome cranks and I could not imagine really needing anything more robust. Having said that, the Atlas would probably be my first pick for a trailbike but that is only because the marketing hype got to me I also do not like the Shimano XT cranks now since though it may be pshychological, they really did feel "wider" with a larger q-factor which I do not like. In fact, I believe they are wider between the arms and plus,who wants shitmano if you dont need it. The only shitmano stuff I still believe in is the front der and pedals but that is only because I am a creature of habit and have not yet tried the SRAM front der.

    In terms of where you prioritize where additional weight savings are worth it, that is of course up to the rider/builder of the bike. I think with cranks you are fine. I think with wheels the XM819s as I recall you noted are great but keep in mind, they are not 465grams rims as advertised. They are really 510gram rims because they need to have nipple adapters which bring the real weight up to 510grams so do not be fooled by the weights posted on the Mavic website which exclude the nipple adapters. But if you want UST I would then say go for it. Plus, they are very nice rims and are reasonably robust but if you did not demand UST, I would consider others personally.

    I would think very carefully about the fork. In my opinion, that is perhaps the most important component choice and if not the most, one of the most. Consider it roughly a pound more than the Talas. I do not recall the weight of the Talas right now but I am sure you know and figure with the stereer tube cut on the AM 1, it will literally just be under 5 lbs.

    Cheers

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    Deus cranks: Not sure you should expect anybody to say anything, given your intended riding. I have Deus cranks on my XC bike and love them
    ...
    I also do not like the Shimano XT cranks now since though it may be pshychological, they really did feel "wider" with a larger q-factor which I do not like. In fact, I believe they are wider between the arms
    SOLD! The closer my feet are together the better. Is that what q-factor means? I hate doing the splite while pedaling.
    the XM819s .... But if you want UST I would then say go for it. Plus, they are very nice rims and are reasonably robust but if you did not demand UST, I would consider others personally.
    I am pretty sure I am going to go UST sometime this summer. I spend way too much cash and time on burst tubes. I have some x618 rims on my hardtail I have been VERY happy with. The take some serious abuse and seem to come back smiling. Mavic discontinued them though.
    I would think very carefully about the fork. In my opinion, that is perhaps the most important component choice and if not the most, one of the most. Consider it roughly a pound more than the Talas. I do not recall the weight of the Talas right now but I am sure you know and figure with the stereer tube cut on the AM 1, it will literally just be under 5 lbs.

    Cheers
    The AM1 would only cost me about $70 more than the TALAS, but weighs in at 5.1lbs while the TALAS is 3.8lbs. I also understand the AM1 would give me a good deal more steep head angle. I really do like to dart left and right through the singletrack. I know the Moment is not going to handle like my Gary Fisher Mt. Tam hardtail, but I am hoping the TALAS's lower height and 130mm travel will help keep the head angle reasonable for handling.

    I look forward to the otherside of the climb now that I am getting a FS bike, but I am still in a mindset of enjoying the mental challenge of the clmb and the quick reflexes needed in the handling while flying though narrow singletrack. Perhaps I truly don't realize aspects of riding FS riders take for granted. Right now the decent is an obstical on the way to the next climb to me. Perhaps in 2 weeks it will be the reward instead for the climb completed.

  17. #17
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by tubadude
    SOLD! The closer my feet are together the better. Is that what q-factor means? I hate doing the splite while pedaling.
    Yes, the q-factor is a measurement of "width" between arms so to speak. How much of a difference that actually matters is a personal thing but it is a fact that the new XT stuff has a larger q-factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by tubadude
    I am pretty sure I am going to go UST sometime this summer. I spend way too much cash and time on burst tubes. I have some x618 rims on my hardtail I have been VERY happy with. The take some serious abuse and seem to come back smiling. Mavic discontinued them though.
    Again, nothing wrong at all with the XM819 rims....they are very, very nice rims.

    Quote Originally Posted by tubadude
    The AM1 would only cost me about $70 more than the TALAS, but weighs in at 5.1lbs while the TALAS is 3.8lbs. I also understand the AM1 would give me a good deal more steep head angle. I really do like to dart left and right through the singletrack. I know the Moment is not going to handle like my Gary Fisher Mt. Tam hardtail, but I am hoping the TALAS's lower height and 130mm travel will help keep the head angle reasonable for handling.
    You have it backwards in terms of which fork will give you a steeper headangle. Perhaps you meant to say the AM 1 would create a "slacker" and not "steeper" head angle. The AM 1 is a "taller" fork in terms of its distance from the axle to crown. As such, even when both forks are in 130mm mode, the AM 1 would be taller thus, providing a slightly slacker (not steeper) head angle.

    I am curious....what made you settle on the Moment. While it is a fine bike no doubt, I cant help but think it is not really the right bike for your intentions but forgive me in advance if I am out of line since for all I know, you went through the entire list of bikes out there. It just seems that a 6" travel bike given its weight and geometry may not be optimal and as nimble as what you are looking for. The reality is that there are some killer 5" bikes that will be more nimble and are WAY MORE ROBUST than 99.9% of us can handle anwyay.

    Cheers

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tubadude
    I keep reading so much about everyone who is over 180-200lbs loving coils that I thought I would go that route. PLUS the place I am buying the frame from is having a HUGE sale on black Moment frames that have the DHX shock. i get it cheaper than the air shock. Hella good deal.

    I really like being able to custom tune the air spring instead of having to swap springs. If I was to go spring them I am more inclined to spend the money on the Marz AM1 instead.

    I have a little carbonphobia also, but can't see Easton staying in business if they were getting buried in lawsuits from a mountain of failing carbon bars.

    Why would I need a stronger rear brake than the mono mini? I have V-brakes now and the rear especially is way too strong. I have Koolstop pads and they help, but I am looking forward to more front brake. I also save $40 and 120 grams with the rear mini.

    UST will come later when there are some more 2.35 UST tire choices. The XT hubs saved me $400 over King hubs. I'll ask for a new wheelset for Xmas.
    Some fair points there Tubadude. The AM1 gets rave reviews off everyone who try's it and Bomber forks are usually fit and forget. I'm gonna get some FR1's for mine eventually. I do recall going downhill in the Alps a few times with the ETA left on and no way of bailing out or reaching down for the lever- my fault ofcourse but..interesting. . The carbon bars thing is largely peace of mind for me, but there have been breakages- check out the freeride forum. As you will know carbon doesn't bend like ally when it fails- it just snaps and shears off. Having said that i would use mine again if i built up a lightweight xc bike sometime in the future. On Hope's website the mono mini is listed as 375 grams with a 160 disc and the mono m4 is 430 grams with a 180 disc. The 55 gram diff. is all in the disc, i've had most of Hope's brakes and if you held the calipers in your palms there is NO weight difference. The m4 will perform better when it's being applied for long periods downhill and for the price diff. i would suggest you buy it. A thing to bear in mind with Hope's is brake squeal, people often complain about it and you must get the brake mounts faced to minimise it. I always re-bleed them aswell, if you do both of these things your brakes will be fine. Just got the 'floating' discs for my mono mini's and they look damn fine! Post some pics. when you can.

  19. #19
    Bodhisattva
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    Nice build & very similar to what I'm doing with my 6-Pack.
    I'm going to agree with Fo on the fork. If you're getting the DHX, then give more consideration to the Marz AM-1. If you go with an air rear then I'd recommend the TALAS. Darren at PUSH has his Moment setup with the TALAS on the front end, has it weighing 28# total and absolutely loves it. Don't be concerned about the Marz being a new product. They've made bombproof forks for years and the AM-1 is more of an evolution than a true new offering. Fo never seemed to like his TALAS but I've really liked both my '03 & '05. The new version has significantly improved compression & rebound damping and the PUSH mod makes it that much more supple. The gap between a PUSH'd TALAS RLC and a coil sprung Zoke is very slim, but the PUSH mod will cost you another $150-200 or so. It can be done with a new or used fork which is a nice option.

    A few other comments...
    XT hubs: I don't like them. Relatively heavy and not enough engagement points for my taste. As far as I'm concerned there is King and everyone else. Hadleys are now a close second but are heavier. Keep in mind that rotating mass makes more of a difference in the ride than static mass so don't cheap out on the hubs. Unfortunately King recently raised their pricing by a significant amount. If price is an issue then take a look at the Hope hubs.

    Crankset: I'm going with the Atlas over the Deus for my 6-Pack even though I only weigh 158# and will be using it for aggressive trailriding. My inner weight weenie yearns for the Deus, but the Atlas seems like the more appropriate choice. I'm just going to have to eat the weight here. Give it some consideration since it's much cheaper to change when new then somewhere down the line. I've never really been able to tell much of a difference in crank stiffness and I've never broken one either, so this is a leap of faith and a trust in the technology.

    Brakes: no problems there, although I consider it "poor form" to mix the models. Minimal weight savings with the mono over the M4. I'm going with the J7's 180 front/160 rear.

    Handlebar: I switched from a standard to the OS bar on my titus back in November and haven't been thrilled. Yes, it's stiffer. But my carbon OS bar unexpectedly also delivers a harsher ride compared to my aluminum standard bar/stem. At my weight and intended use I don't consider 31.8 to be necessary so I'm going with a standard bar & stem for my 6-Pack. Although I'm a hard-core Thomson fan, I'm going with the Hope stem and a standard diameter Easton nano-whatever carbon bar for comfort & a bit of weight savings. The new Hope stem has a similar look as the thomson x4 at a slightly lighter weight and an even bigger savings over the standard dia thomson elite.

    Everything else looks great. I also built up the 819 UST rims and will be using the same Kendas for now but have my eye on the UST Geax Sturdys (very heavy) and the Hutch Spiders.

  20. #20
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Nice build & very similar to what I'm doing with my 6-Pack.
    I'm going to agree with Fo on the fork. If you're getting the DHX, then give more consideration to the Marz AM-1. If you go with an air rear then I'd recommend the TALAS. Darren at PUSH has his Moment setup with the TALAS on the front end, has it weighing 28# total and absolutely loves it. Don't be concerned about the Marz being a new product. They've made bombproof forks for years and the AM-1 is more of an evolution than a true new offering. Fo never seemed to like his TALAS but I've really liked both my '03 & '05. The new version has significantly improved compression & rebound damping and the PUSH mod makes it that much more supple. The gap between a PUSH'd TALAS RLC and a coil sprung Zoke is very slim, but the PUSH mod will cost you another $150-200 or so. It can be done with a new or used fork which is a nice option.

    A few other comments...
    XT hubs: I don't like them. Relatively heavy and not enough engagement points for my taste. As far as I'm concerned there is King and everyone else. Hadleys are now a close second but are heavier. Keep in mind that rotating mass makes more of a difference in the ride than static mass so don't cheap out on the hubs. Unfortunately King recently raised their pricing by a significant amount. If price is an issue then take a look at the Hope hubs.

    Crankset: I'm going with the Atlas over the Deus for my 6-Pack even though I only weigh 158# and will be using it for aggressive trailriding. My inner weight weenie yearns for the Deus, but the Atlas seems like the more appropriate choice. I'm just going to have to eat the weight here. Give it some consideration since it's much cheaper to change when new then somewhere down the line. I've never really been able to tell much of a difference in crank stiffness and I've never broken one either, so this is a leap of faith and a trust in the technology.

    Brakes: no problems there, although I consider it "poor form" to mix the models. Minimal weight savings with the mono over the M4. I'm going with the J7's 180 front/160 rear.

    Handlebar: I switched from a standard to the OS bar on my titus back in November and haven't been thrilled. Yes, it's stiffer. But my carbon OS bar unexpectedly also delivers a harsher ride compared to my aluminum standard bar/stem. At my weight and intended use I don't consider 31.8 to be necessary so I'm going with a standard bar & stem for my 6-Pack. Although I'm a hard-core Thomson fan, I'm going with the Hope stem and a standard diameter Easton nano-whatever carbon bar for comfort & a bit of weight savings. The new Hope stem has a similar look as the thomson x4 at a slightly lighter weight and an even bigger savings over the standard dia thomson elite.

    Everything else looks great. I also built up the 819 UST rims and will be using the same Kendas for now but have my eye on the UST Geax Sturdys (very heavy) and the Hutch Spiders.
    good point re: the PUSHed Fox....I have never ridden a PUSHed Talas and I am sure it is a phenomenal fork when done.

    By the way SqWhl, that picture of your Pack is just awesome....while I generally like loud annoying color (ie, Orange), I think the white looks better.

    cheers

  21. #21
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    By the way SqWhl, that picture of your Pack is just awesome....while I generally like loud annoying color (ie, Orange), I think the white looks better.
    Thanks. I was unsure on the dichromatic thing, but it's coming out better than expected. I'm hoping to take it on a maiden voyage this afternoon if all goes well.
    Sorry for hijacking the thread....

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    I am curious....what made you settle on the Moment. While it is a fine bike no doubt, I cant help but think it is not really the right bike for your intentions but forgive me in advance if I am out of line since for all I know, you went through the entire list of bikes out there. It just seems that a 6" travel bike given its weight and geometry may not be optimal and as nimble as what you are looking for. The reality is that there are some killer 5" bikes that will be more nimble and are WAY MORE ROBUST than 99.9% of us can handle anwyay
    I actually went into this wanting an Id. I was told by the bike shop that the Id is on the way out and the Moment is it's replacement. I also got a killer price on the Moment frame with DHX5 shock.

    You are mostly right that a 6" trail bike might be more than I need for the type of riding I am accustommed to. BUT, I am accustommed to riding on a 3" travel fork on a hardtail. I have been timid to go on the 4 hour technical group rides because I get so darned beatup even after 2 hours of technical riding on my present bike.

    I do believe that this new bike will complement my current ride by opening up new experiences.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tubadude
    I actually went into this wanting an Id. I was told by the bike shop that the Id is on the way out and the Moment is it's replacement. I also got a killer price on the Moment frame with DHX5 shock.

    You are mostly right that a 6" trail bike might be more than I need for the type of riding I am accustommed to. BUT, I am accustommed to riding on a 3" travel fork on a hardtail. I have been timid to go on the 4 hour technical group rides because I get so darned beatup even after 2 hours of technical riding on my present bike.

    I do believe that this new bike will complement my current ride by opening up new experiences.
    It certainly will....my only point was that there are PLENTY of incredible and much lighter 5"+ trailbikes (and I would not include the ID in that list personally) that will more than serve the purpose you seek, and then some. And my personal opinion is that it was very weak for them to say the Moment "replaced" the ID. The ID was a longer travel Truth (ie, a long travel XC frame) and the Moment is a real 6" bike with not only its weight but its geometry and intended riding.

    Since you got a great price then by all means go for it.

    Have fun!

    Cheers

  24. #24
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    Nice build, just some suggestions similar to what others have said, with a Large frame I would definitley go for the AM1 I have u ased the talas on the Moment and its not as nicely balanced as with a 150mm fork axle to crown is important here {if weight is yr concern go for a Mav DUC 32}, myself I have chosen the Marz Z1 FR 1, I rode this fork in the weekend on a Moment and with this fork it has been the sweetest ride I've had yet, comparing to a talas, vanilla, manitou firefly all tried on the moment the Zoke is the best so far, my orders in! also I've been using carbon easton bars, and have recently tried alloy and have put the carbon bars back on the Id, alloy is best for me on the Moment, I'm riding hard and jumping pretty big now, the feel is so much more secure, though I miss the carbon look. get srams X Gen derailluer I swapped my XT for her, she's cheaper stiffer stronger and shifts nicer no Shitmano on my bike at all, I don't miss it either, the ride I tested in the weekend was a mix of XTR/XT and I haven't ridden Sh%$%*mo for awhile and I don't intend to again after that! the difference was night and day, I haven't regretted going sram from day one, bring on the new XO shifters! though the X9 has been sweet.

    The seat I'd go for the WTB power V it's cheaper bigger and yes slightly heavier but this is by far the best seat I've ridden and it's going on my Moment and my light weight Id swapping out the carbon ti WTB thats right thats how good this seat is you will ride it all day. I use Atlas cranks myself but if your'e a weight weanie then Dues will be fine there darn nice the atlas aren't that much heavier, but man they are stiff great when jumping off that unsuspecting drop, the XTs have had a few slippages on the spline not really up to a decent huck, probably not the products fault in def of the big S as they are XC cranks.
    If you use sram use all sram don't mix and match your cassettes and chains your'e shifing and durablity will be affected even slightly I've been down this road use one or the other you will be better off, nothing worse than a nice bike and the tranny is crap I see it all the time esspecially on OEM spec, why people do this when buying sep is beyond me, don't mean to be harsh, only other thing I'd change is the tubes and put stans no tubes in it's lighter faster stronger less flats if at all, I've had none and oftern run my tyres depending on brand at 20-25psi traction is awesome tyres wear less corner faster smoother ride it's all good, unless your'e like me and change your tyres like your jocks, I still use s.

    Oh don't go with the XT hubs they are heavier **** crap, if you can afford it, King is best esspecially for a heavier rider , Hadley, Hope, maybe WTB in that order if budget comes into it. I've run my Kings for a year first time with out bearing problems cone issues and the wheelset was handbuilt I haven't needed any work done to the whole wheel not even a spoke tightened this has saved money and wasted hours out on the trail King on, I use Bontrager Mustang rims bullet proof and theyr'e OSD, stronger, lighter build, DT spokes only way to go.
    These are only my suggestions may not be realistic for ya or even what ya want but I believe these are the best options from my own experience with the Moment 8 months of hard riding and shes still my baby, right time for another ride, enjoy your Moment when you get her post a pick enjoy!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by A MAN CALLED HORSE
    ..... Secondly, if your thinking of TALAS forks then why not get Vanilla's......The Vanilla's are virtually the same weight, cheaper, simpler and plusher.....
    I wouldn't be so quick to make this comment as I've just come from a Vanilla to a Talas. Granted it was an 04 Vanilla vs 05 Talas, but IMO the Talas feels every bit as plush as the Vanilla, but it has a more consistent stroke. ie smoother throughout the the entire stroke.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by tubadude
    I actually went into this wanting an Id. I was told by the bike shop that the Id is on the way out and the Moment is it's replacement. I also got a killer price on the Moment frame with DHX5 shock.

    You are mostly right that a 6" trail bike might be more than I need for the type of riding I am accustommed to. BUT, I am accustommed to riding on a 3" travel fork on a hardtail. I have been timid to go on the 4 hour technical group rides because I get so darned beatup even after 2 hours of technical riding on my present bike.

    I do believe that this new bike will complement my current ride by opening up new experiences.
    Nice Specs! Now it's my turn to take a swing. As a former Moment owner I can add some insight with a little credibility. The input from FoShizzle was good too, even if he is a Ventana owner and rodie wanna-be with color blindness..

    FORKS: My Moment was fitted with a 02 Vanilla RLC, then a PUSH 02 Vanilla RLC and then a slightly modified AM1 during it's 7 months in my posession. The Vanilla was good but not great. It created nice geometry for extended trail rides but exhibited awful brake dive and some stanchion flex that caused the rotor to rub slightly. It would not handle the bigger drops the Moment gives you the confidance to attempt. DH handling was a little sketchy. The PUSH mod made it great. It handled just like the DHX, traking very well and no dive, but the flex was still there. Big hits almost dissappeared The AM1 (130-150) was outstanding. It raised the front just enough (even in 130 mode) to make the DH stuff a little faster , the tracking is great and there is no stanchion flex. Then crank it up to 150mm and hold on!!!

    Brakes: The mix of the M4/mono is a setup that I contimplated for the Moment too, until I got the Juicy's. I started with Hayes 203mm/185mm and quickly went to 203mm front and rear. The Moment is fast and you will quickly over whelm a 160mm rotor. I suggest 180 F/R as a minimum and 203 up front as optimum. The mix of models is fine.

    Hubs: IMO the XT hubs are a waste of time and money. I've had 2 freehubs completely fail on me in the middle of rides, the bearings are not very smooth and their weight is outrageous. I have a set of Kings and a new Hope front. The Hope is just as nice for a lot less $$. Sure the Hopes are still more expensive than the XT but factor in the cost of rebuilding the wheel when the XT fails and the difference is much smaller.

    The Frame: No worries. The Moment is a great trail bike and can handle whatever you can throw at it. It is great for technical rides, especially once you add the big Kenda tires. Roots completely dissappear underneith you and climbs you thought were once impossible are now reality. It does not feel heavy on the trail and climbs with ease. It is wonderful with the DHX and should you feel like 6" is too much for you then swap it for a RP3 and drop the travel in the back to 5".

    Enjoy it
    Last edited by SSINGA; 03-21-2005 at 08:36 AM.
    Nothing to see here.

  27. #27
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    Nice Specs! Now it's my turn to take a swing. As a former Moment owner I can add some insight with a little credibility. The input from FoShizzle was good too, even if he is a Ventana owner and rodie wanna-be with color blindness..

    FORKS: My Moment was fitted with a 02 Vanilla RLC, then a PUSH 02 Vanilla RLC and then a slightly modified AM1 during it's 7 months in my posession. The Vanilla was good but not great. It created nice geometry for extended trail rides but exhibited awful brake dive and some stanchion flex that caused the rotor to rub slightly. It would not handle the bigger drops the Moment gives you the confidance to attempt. DH handling was a little sketchy. The PUSH mod made it great. It handled just like the DHX, traking very well and no dive, but the flex was still there. Big hits almost dissappeared The AM1 (130-150) was outstanding. It raised the front just enough (even in 130 mode) to make the DH stuff a little faster , the tracking is great and there is no stanchion flex. Then crank it up to 150mm and hold on!!!

    Brakes: The mix of the M4/mono is a setup that I contimplated for the Moment too, until I got the Juicy's. I started with Hayes 203mm/185mm and quickly went to 203mm front and rear. The Moment is fast and you will quickly over whelm a 160mm rotor. I suggest 180 F/R as a minimum and 203 up front as optimum. The mix of models is fine.

    Hubs: IMO the XT hubs are a waste of time and money. I've had 2 freehubs completely fail on me in the middle of rides, the bearings are not very smooth and their weight is outrageous. I have a set of Kings and a new Hope front. The Hope is just as nice for a lot less $$. Sure the Hopes are still more expensive than the XT but factor in the cost of rebuilding the wheel when the XT fails and the difference is much smaller.

    The Frame: No worries. The Moment is a great trail bike and can handle whatever you can throw at it. It is great for technical rides, especially once you add the big Kenda tires. Roots completely dissappear underneith you and climbs you thought were once impossible are now reality. It does not feel heavy on the trail and climbs with ease. It is wonderful with the DHX and should you feel like 6" is too much for you then swap it for a RP3 and drop the travel in the back to 5".

    Enjoy it
    Dude have u left the state of Ellsworthia, what are you riding now that you aren't riding the Moment?

  28. #28
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    The input from FoShizzle was good too, even if he is a Ventana owner and rodie wanna-be with color blindness..
    As usual SSINGA, thanks for the kind words

    and after yesterday, you need to update your name calling of FoShizzle. In addition to a lycra wearing roadie sissy-boy, you need to also call me a tree-huggin granola-eating singlespeeder!!! I bought a Surly 1x1 over the weekend.....my spending is WAY out of control. I was going to buy it from Larry but my wife freaked when she heard it would be over $1000 so I bought a sweet used bike (of course it will end up over $1000 by the time I slowly switch some of the parts in stealth mode so she does not notice ........I also dropped the bomb on my wife last night that "by the way honey, I have been so busy that I forgot to tell you I ordered a road bike that I had briefly mentioned in passing....". the beauty is that she was on a trip in Santa Barbara which is why I waited to tell her since she would be in a good mood. I took care of it by saying that Larry gave me an incredible deal so it was pretty cheap....which is true but fortunately, I did not have to define cheap.

    So the bottom line is that I am having not one bike, but 2 bikes shipped to me today!!!!

    what next????


  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Dude have u left the state of Ellsworthia, what are you riding now that you aren't riding the Moment?
    My Ellsworthia green card expired so I was forced to move to Homer-ville and buy a Turner or 2 and a X5 for the sake of comparision.


    Fo - what you gonna do with a 1x1?
    Nothing to see here.

  30. #30
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    My Ellsworthia green card expired so I was forced to move to Homer-ville and buy a Turner or 2 and a X5 for the sake of comparision.


    Fo - what you gonna do with a 1x1?
    try to ride it uphill and I emphasize the word "try"

  31. #31
    Bodhisattva
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    Fo,
    too bad you're not local or you could do what I'm doing with the 6-Pack....
    leaving it at MHC.
    Buys me time until I have to break the news to the Mrs. which is going to be a lot more difficult after buying 2 new sets of skis this winter and me talking about getting a third pair.
    But there's light on the horizon - we live on a lake and she's been dropping hints about wanting a kayak for her birthday, so that might give me the opening to drop the Pack-bomb on her.

    Larry & Sir Beast have been trying to get me into a 1x1 but I moved in the opposite direction with the pack. There's always next winter.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Fo,
    too bad you're not local or you could do what I'm doing with the 6-Pack....
    leaving it at MHC.
    Where are said 6-Pack pictures. Is it built yet?

    I can't beleive you two - hiding bike purchases from your loving wives. Shame shame shame!

    At least my Pack is a warranty replacement for the Moment.
    Nothing to see here.

  33. #33
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    Where are said 6-Pack pictures. Is it built yet?

    I can't beleive you two - hiding bike purchases from your loving wives. Shame shame shame!

    At least my Pack is a warranty replacement for the Moment.
    Prelim pic posted under Mani-UT's thread.
    I'm heading over to MHC after work today to string the cables. Was planning on taking it on its maiden voyage today but the weather isn't cooperating. Maybe tomorrow.
    Using the Z150 until the PUSH'd 36 arrives which hopefully will be later this week. If I don't love the 36 then it's "frankenfork, here I come......"

  34. #34
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    A comment on brakes...

    I think the rotor choice has a lot to do with rider weight & intended usage.

    I weigh around 160 and have found a 7" front/6" rear to be a good combo for me. The 7/7 combo turned me into a skidiot and I've come to appreciate a front/rear differential for my style, which is fairly common. I know some who run 8 front/6 rear.

    If the OP is building his Moment has a trailbike, which seems to be the case, the 7/6 might be right unless he's approaching clydeness.

    Edit: Just reread & saw OP is a clyde. I agree with SS that the bigger rotors would be more appropriate.
    Last edited by The Squeaky Wheel; 03-21-2005 at 03:08 PM. Reason: Just reread & saw OP is a clyde. I agree with SS that the bigger rotors would be more appropriate.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tubadude
    That dump is going to do nothing for the added weight on the bike i have to toss around with my arms and legs under me over several hours of riding. I am not riding a road bike and staying seated on extended straight climbs. I gotta toss this bike around with my arms and more weight means more energy consumed.

    Carbonphobia. I suffer from it a little also, but if it was REALLY a terrible concern than lawsuits would have ended production years ago. I think I will take this risk.

    I wanted stronger rims than 717s but am also careful of the weight implications. 150 grams of total added rotational mass that far out on the edge of the wheel is a good bit. I actually DO want UST but the the Blue Groove UST is not available to me yet. I want to try the Blue Groove and Nev in 2.35. i use 2.1 now and am curious if 2.35 will help out with the roots and rocks in my area. I spent too much time replacing punctured tubes last summer and am looking forward to a larger selection of lighter weight 2.35 UST tires which I hope will come out this year.

    I would like some Hope hubs, but replacing the XTs with Hope Bulb hubs raises my price by $200 and only looses me 110grams at the lowest non rotational weight locations on the entire bike. Sure they DO rotate, but not in a way which has a great effect. They ARE unsprung weight which affects suspension but I don't think they will have THAT much of an effect compared to the $200 I could save.

    I agree there. the Salsa tubes are what were speced by the builder. I thought I would give them a try, but replacements are gonna be cheapo Performance Bike specials.

    I was taking into consideration that you weigh 210 suited up (like me). A coupla' years ago when I built my Isis I was trying to save grams here and there. The Easton carbon post I had on the bike originally broke...it was a long 12 mile ride back to the car (broken bars would REALLY hurt). I replaced with a heavier Thomson Post. The original wheels were Velocity VXC disk on XT hubs that I had to true every coupla' months. I put up with them til the rear hub crapped out after a year and a half and replaced the wheelset with heavier Mavic XM321 on King ISO. The RF Next LP cranks developed cracks and were swapped out for RF Atlas. I ditched the Cane Creek air shock and got a Romic coil on it now....swapped the Vanilla Forx for a Sherman Firefly.

    Anyhooo....I've gained about 3lbs of bike weight since the original build and it ain't no big deal. I'm still doing the same 3-4 hr rides (slower up, faster down) but I have a much sturdier bike that I trust isn't going to (errr shouldn't) break. I was thinking the same (counting grams) as you when I originally built the Isis and it cost me more in the long run. I just wanted to point out that durability should be a consideration over gram counting when you're in the clyde class like we are...unless you don't mind replacing stuff.

    Enjoy your new ride .

  36. #36
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    My Ellsworthia green card expired so I was forced to move to Homer-ville and buy a Turner or 2 and a X5 for the sake of comparision.


    Fo - what you gonna do with a 1x1?
    JM and Pete finally got to ya, sad to see ya go oh well still on the trails is the main thing enjoy yr new rides.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricko
    I was taking into consideration that you weigh 210 suited up (like me). A coupla' years ago when I built my Isis I was trying to save grams here and there. The Easton carbon post I had on the bike originally broke...it was a long 12 mile ride back to the car (broken bars would REALLY hurt). I replaced with a heavier Thomson Post. The original wheels were Velocity VXC disk on XT hubs that I had to true every coupla' months. I put up with them til the rear hub crapped out after a year and a half and replaced the wheelset with heavier Mavic XM321 on King ISO. The RF Next LP cranks developed cracks and were swapped out for RF Atlas. I ditched the Cane Creek air shock and got a Romic coil on it now....swapped the Vanilla Forx for a Sherman Firefly.

    Anyhooo....I've gained about 3lbs of bike weight since the original build and it ain't no big deal. I'm still doing the same 3-4 hr rides (slower up, faster down) but I have a much sturdier bike that I trust isn't going to (errr shouldn't) break. I was thinking the same (counting grams) as you when I originally built the Isis and it cost me more in the long run. I just wanted to point out that durability should be a consideration over gram counting when you're in the clyde class like we are...unless you don't mind replacing stuff.

    Enjoy your new ride .
    I have a hardtail now that I did have to replace fork and wheels last year cause they were to flimsy for me. Both flexed like mad making sticking to a line a coin toss. That hardtail has a F80x up front and XT hubs with x618 rims. I beat that bike up over rock gardens and quick well rooted downhills. It seems to hold up fine. No trueing has been needed since I bought them 500 miles ago. The cranks are original and certainly NOT as strong as even the Deus cranks.

    The Raceface stuff is lifetime warranty so if they break I might go Atlas then. I thought I would give them a shot since they weigh nearly the same as XTR at a much better price.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    JM and Pete finally got to ya, sad to see ya go oh well still on the trails is the main thing enjoy yr new rides.
    JM and Pete had nothing to do with my decision. The timing was just right to get a 6-pack and sell the Moment. I like trying new stuff.
    Nothing to see here.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by tubadude
    I have a hardtail now that I did have to replace fork and wheels last year cause they were to flimsy for me. Both flexed like mad making sticking to a line a coin toss. That hardtail has a F80x up front and XT hubs with x618 rims. I beat that bike up over rock gardens and quick well rooted downhills. It seems to hold up fine. No trueing has been needed since I bought them 500 miles ago. The cranks are original and certainly NOT as strong as even the Deus cranks.

    The Raceface stuff is lifetime warranty so if they break I might go Atlas then. I thought I would give them a shot since they weigh nearly the same as XTR at a much better price.
    Yep the good ol' hardtail days...I had a Zascar built to 23.5lbs... SID race, full XTR, 517 rims. It was a blast to ride but luckily I beat it to death before it beat ME to death .

    My school of thought with regards to FS, particularly a longer travel trail bike, is that you end up bashing harder because you can (and it's fun ) and that bashing harder takes its toll on components especially wheels and cranks when you're a heavier rider.

    These days I tend to spec a little stronger and heavier then I need probably. I make the bike "feel" lighter by spending time in the gym lifting...and I don't bust up bikes as much any more . The exception to the rule is my roadie bike that weighs 1/2 what my MTB does...but that's a different ball game altogether.

  40. #40
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    I would have to second the recommendation on the Id. Whether it goes away or not, it's still a good 5" travel bike more suited to the style of riding it seems like you're inclined to be doing. Just a thought. And I'm not convinced that it's going away just yet. Turner just changed it's line to add a 4" travel and 6" travel bike, why wouldn't Ells do the same to complete? Rumor has it that there will be new Ids and Jokers at Sea Otter, but we'll see.

    That said, I think the Marz is a better choice for the Moment. OR, you could same some cash on a fork, get a PIKE SL and with the extra cash get the 20mm hub that you'd need. The Pike has gotten some good reviews, is heavy duty, stiff and has the adjustability that you're looking for - travel adjust particularly. The coil front and rear would be more intuitively balanced. It also has motion control with you could mate to the Pro Pedal damping of the DHX.

    Just my .02.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    JM and Pete had nothing to do with my decision. The timing was just right to get a 6-pack and sell the Moment. I like trying new stuff.
    A change is as good as a holiday, fair enough dude hows the 6 pack!

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    A change is as good as a holiday, fair enough dude hows the 6 pack!
    Hopefully it'll show up at my door in less than 2 weeks. Until then I have been keeping busy by creating new Marzocchi fork models
    Nothing to see here.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    I would have to second the recommendation on the Id. Whether it goes away or not, it's still a good 5" travel bike more suited to the style of riding it seems like you're inclined to be doing. Just a thought. And I'm not convinced that it's going away just yet. Turner just changed it's line to add a 4" travel and 6" travel bike, why wouldn't Ells do the same to complete? Rumor has it that there will be new Ids and Jokers at Sea Otter, but we'll see.

    That said, I think the Marz is a better choice for the Moment. OR, you could same some cash on a fork, get a PIKE SL and with the extra cash get the 20mm hub that you'd need. The Pike has gotten some good reviews, is heavy duty, stiff and has the adjustability that you're looking for - travel adjust particularly. The coil front and rear would be more intuitively balanced. It also has motion control with you could mate to the Pro Pedal damping of the DHX.

    Just my .02.
    Chad not to sound rude, Ellsworth already has a 4in and 6in travel bikes the Truth{4in}, {ID5in} and Moment{6in} only this year did the ID get revised to 5inchs though you could get a Califonia ID just for those who will pull me up on this if I don't mention it so they are usually are ahead of the game, sometimes when you lead you bleed not always the best for some, but lets not go there 01 is long gone.

  44. #44
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    Hopefully it'll show up at my door in less than 2 weeks. Until then I have been keeping busy by creating new Marzocchi fork models
    Can you give us insight into the new MArz forks esspecially 150mm thru axles combo of Z1 and AM1 maybe?

  45. #45
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    Yeah, I meant that they'd keep the ID in the line up in the future instead of eliminating it altogether leaving people with a choice of either the Truth at 4" or Moment at 6". The Id is a good compromise and I think it would be silly to get rid of it w/o having some sort of replacement, like maybe a "Moment Lite" or something.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Can you give us insight into the new MArz forks esspecially 150mm thru axles combo of Z1 and AM1 maybe?
    So I don't have to recreate the wheel, and further derail this thread, do a search on Frankenfork and start a new thread with questions.
    Nothing to see here.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    Yeah, I meant that they'd keep the ID in the line up in the future instead of eliminating it altogether leaving people with a choice of either the Truth at 4" or Moment at 6". The Id is a good compromise and I think it would be silly to get rid of it w/o having some sort of replacement, like maybe a "Moment Lite" or something.
    Misunderstood my mistake, I agree with you the ID should stay and would be a bad move but my sources tell it's not going anywhere maybe some improvements or changes, but 5inchs is the magic numer for most so would be a bad move from a business point of view to get rid of it, as a 6inch ID (04 and earlier) it was effectivley a Moment lite, so I can't see it going back there, personally I love my 04 ID and wouldn't want to change it esspecially now it's setup with a fox RP3, for my style of riding nothing is better when I want an all day trail ride or want to do a 12hr/24hr event, I use the Moment as my all mountain light freeride bike. long live the ID!!

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