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  1. #1
    YTC
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    bummed on Epi's replacement rocker weight

    Is anyone out there bummed on the weight of the replacement rocker. I gave up on the 5 spot's slacker head tube for the weight savings of the Epi which in now irrelevant with my chunky alluminum replacement rocker. What's up with that?
    YTC

  2. #2
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Buying an entire new bike to save a quarter or half a pound might be the real problem.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by YTC
    Is anyone out there bummed on the weight of the replacement rocker. I gave up on the 5 spot's slacker head tube for the weight savings of the Epi which in now irrelevant with my chunky alluminum replacement rocker. What's up with that?
    YTC
    Are you friggin kidding??? It adds like .38lbs!! Take a dump before you ride or drain a few oz's from your camelback and you'll be back to the original rocker weight.

    I'll take that in exchange for the piece of mind it provides. In addition, there is so much more to the Epi than just it's light weight.
    Last edited by RACERX70; 05-01-2008 at 09:44 PM.

  4. #4
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    It is kind of a bummer that it doesn't have the bling factor of Mag Rockers, but the techs at Ellsworth have been having problems with these cracking and at only .38 lbs extra the new aluminum alloy rockers are stronger/stiffer and gives you some piece of mind when you decide to leave terra firma.

    Anyway, the new rockers still look damn good and they don't corrode.

  5. #5
    JDOM for life
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    is .38 lbs even noticeable when riding your epi? probably not...

  6. #6
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    When did they make the switch to the aluminum rockers. I just got a new Epiphany 2 weeks ago and it has the Mag rockers.

  7. #7
    YTC
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    ok ok ok. Sorry. I guess it was a psychological thing when I held both rockers and felt the alluminum one to be 1/3 heavier. Mind is a powerful thing.
    I don't know why they're still selling Epis with Mag. Rockers. I'm suprised. Mine cracked in half. Maybe they've improved them.

    YTC
    ps. can't you guys speak a little more gently when someone's being an idiot. You act like my riding partners, only you're more polite (they're tobacco chewers from Texas).

  8. #8
    YTC
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    Jayem,
    I wasn't buying an entire new bike. I was deciding between the two. 5 spot vs. the Epi.
    YTC

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    Quote Originally Posted by YTC
    ok ok ok. Sorry. I guess it was a psychological thing when I held both rockers and felt the alluminum one to be 1/3 heavier. Mind is a powerful thing.
    I don't know why they're still selling Epis with Mag. Rockers. I'm suprised. Mine cracked in half. Maybe they've improved them.

    YTC
    ps. can't you guys speak a little more gently when someone's being an idiot. You act like my riding partners, only you're more polite (they're tobacco chewers from Texas).
    Stop being a ***** and man up about the increased weight!

    There I said it.
    "[SIZE="3"][SIZE="2"]but I do not see anything in the world of suspension methods that is superior to the 4 Bar.

    Dave Turner[/SIZE][/SIZE]

  10. #10
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    I pretty fed up - didn't know there was a potential problem until I checked my bike over this evening - ready for a ride tomorrow - and I found a crack in the mag rocker near the front rh side. Checking another forum there was aphoto showing the failure in almost the identical position - it seems pretty common from the tone of this forum so I am dissapointed a warning wasn't given out - at least it didn't break while I was out in the back of beyond.

  11. #11
    Rolling
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    Fed up from what?

    Nomisy, you signed up just to post that?

    How can you be pretty fed up if this is your first post?...you have other experiences to share? Please, don't hold back. Don't be a coward either if you are someone else.




    BTW, everyone...Weight or Strength..pick one.
    Last edited by lidarman; 05-02-2008 at 09:05 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomisy
    I pretty fed up - didn't know there was a potential problem until I checked my bike over this evening - ready for a ride tomorrow - and I found a crack in the mag rocker near the front rh side. Checking another forum there was aphoto showing the failure in almost the identical position - it seems pretty common from the tone of this forum so I am dissapointed a warning wasn't given out - at least it didn't break while I was out in the back of beyond.
    Welcome to MTBR! This problem is about a year old now, but better safe than...not.

  13. #13
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    I would have thought it obvious - a long weekend without my bike (I love riding the Ep - bliss like Garcia's mercurial guitar runs) and prossibly a heafty repair bill (bike very close to warranty expiry) - well luckily I was wrong thanks to excellent service at my local Ellsworth Dealer my bike was back with new rockers in hours!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by YTC
    Jayem,
    I wasn't buying an entire new bike. I was deciding between the two. 5 spot vs. the Epi.
    YTC
    I just figured you realized TNT was a sham.
    I'd hit it, but I bruise like a peach.

  15. #15
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    I found out about the mag rocker problem thanks to this forum on mtbr and specifically requested my Epi to come with the Aluminum rockers. I'll give up that weight in a heart beat to have a stronger bike, but apparently all the mag rockers to not necessarily have issues or problems. Basically, if you are a larger rider, get the aluminum ones without question if you have the option... IMHO
    Ride to Live... Live to Ride

  16. #16
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    Just found out about this issue - the HARD way

    Was riding a couple days ago and went off a 1' drop and the Mag rocker snapped in half just in front of the attachment to the rear shock. I think it's ridiculous that a recall has not been issued because I was lucky that it didn't happen in a more technical or downhill section, resulting in serious injury. As it is, I needed to walk out of the woods for an hour in the dark and I'm now without a bike for at least 2 weeks!

  17. #17
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by YTC
    Jayem,
    I wasn't buying an entire new bike. I was deciding between the two. 5 spot vs. the Epi.
    YTC
    Well, when you said you "gave up", it made it sound like you had the 5spot before hand, and with the epis weighing anywhere from 6-6.8lbs according to those who've weighed em, there is no "weight savings" by going with the epi, and another good question is fork length, if you're going with a shorter fork on the epi then it's not apples to apples, as the epi would be just as slack with a longer fork like you might put on a spot. Not that they are the same bikes for the same purpose...
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  18. #18
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    My new Epi's rockers are silver colored, not yellowish. Does this mean that they are the new, heavier aluminum rockers?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougjulie
    Was riding a couple days ago and went off a 1' drop and the Mag rocker snapped in half just in front of the attachment to the rear shock. I think it's ridiculous that a recall has not been issued because I was lucky that it didn't happen in a more technical or downhill section, resulting in serious injury. As it is, I needed to walk out of the woods for an hour in the dark and I'm now without a bike for at least 2 weeks!
    You may not have to wait for two weeks. When my chainstay broke it was delivered and installed on my bike within 4 days (and I live far away from everywhere)

    Geardoc - Yes the silver rockers are aluminum

  20. #20
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    Hi
    Just thought I'd share this good customer service story with you - as there seems to have been a few bad news stories well written about.

    Checked my Epi in the morning I was travelling away to ride in the Lake District UK. I've kept an eye on the mag rockers after picking stuff up in this forum. Noticed a stress mark across the shock mount. Thought I was in the pooh but rang Freeborn the UK importer who despached a new rocker to the hotel I was staying at. Arrived next morning. Fitted in 10minutes and away I went. I can't tell the difference between the Mag and new Alloy rocker but I know I feel happier now.

    I know the debate on whether it should/ shouldn't happen to a bike - but I'd like to say cheers to Jim @ Freeborn UK for sorting the job out so well.

  21. #21
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    There is definately a problem with the rocker. Ellsworth is lucky no one has gotten seriously hurt. I have broken two of them now in the same place as other posters have mentioned. Right side of the front of the rocker where the bolt goes through. I will say however, my local dealer has handed me over 2 free rocker arms on the spot. I am waiting to get one of the new aluminum ones now. I hope the one I am using will last long enough for the new one to come in. I weigh 195 LBs and ride rough XC eastern single track. No big drops or anything, just hard riding. I have broken the seat tube on a 2001 Ellsworth Truth and received a warrantied frame from Ellsworth after 5 years of riding it hard (the warranty is now 2 years I think). Anyways, yes, there is a problem here and Ellsworth is standing behind their product and replacing things for free.............Well it may already be built into the HIGH retail price of $2395 but regardless they are doing the right thing. I have a friend that broke the rear end of an Ibis Mojo which is around 8 months old and they would not warranty it and charged him $250 MORE dollars. I love the Epiphany and will continue to support Ellsworth until they stop supporting me!

  22. #22
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    Why no full-blown recall on the rocker?

    While its admirable that Ellsworth is "doing the right thing" by sending replacement rockers free-of-charge, they should be more proactive with this retrofit.

    As a 15-year veteran of the quality industry, we are constantly evaluating potential retrofits for our products. In each case a thorough risk analysis is performed to determine potential failure rate, exposure, issue severity (safety / code / etc.), and cost-benefit (retrofit vs. leave alone).

    In this particular situation, the safety of the rider is at risk, frequency of failure is high (some rockers have failed more than once on the same frame), and the cost to replace is rather low relative to the overall cost of the frame. A full-blown retrofit/recall should be a no-brainer.

    It is interesting that the company has chosen to be relatively silent on this topic. The dealer I bought the frame from was not even made aware of the issue, the Ellsworth website has no mention of the problem, and the photos of the most current Epiphany still proudly display the Magnesuim rocker on the bike!

  23. #23
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    I wanted to bump this post to let everyone know that I have received the aluminum rocker arm, free of charge. I don't think Ellsworth should continue advertising such a lightweight for the Epiphany however. This new aluminum rocker arm is easily 1/3 of a LB heavier than the Magnesium one. The weight is fine with me if it will last, but I would guess this frame is now 6 LBs.
    DougJulie states, "In this particular situation, the safety of the rider is at risk, frequency of failure is high (some rockers have failed more than once on the same frame), and the cost to replace is rather low relative to the overall cost of the frame. A full-blown retrofit/recall should be a no-brainer."

    I could not agree more. I guess they are crossing their fingers hoping that no one gets seriously hurt and they do not get sued.

    I am glad that Ellsworth has replaced my bad Rocker Arm(s). I have broken THREE of them now. Hopefully the aluminum one will last along with the frame. I have to say however, they should have replaced the defective rocker arms to keep me from having to walk out of the woods like I have had to do. My most recent rocker arm break left me stranded miles from the car on a Mtbiking vacation. Really sucked walking for miles with an unrideable bike. Luckily I brought my single speed with me so I was able to salvage the rest of my riding vacation.
    I think the Ellsworth Epiphany is the finest All mountain bike out there and will continue supporting Ellsworth as long as they support me!

  24. #24
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    Good to know that Ells helped you without cost on your side. I believe Ells markets the Epi as one of the lightest and not the lightest... anymore. So that should cover their side. Nevertheless, I think they should have made a more conscious effort to recall them just to appease the minds of its patrons.

    I think the aluminum will last much longer than the Mag ones. The moment uses alums and I've heard no one break it yet (knock on wood).

    I gota question for you though, you said you broke your rockers three times already. Why did you still get magnesium rockers when you broke it the first time, just curious.

    Bakalboy

    Quote Originally Posted by epiphreddy
    I wanted to bump this post to let everyone know that I have received the aluminum rocker arm, free of charge. I don't think Ellsworth should continue advertising such a lightweight for the Epiphany however. This new aluminum rocker arm is easily 1/3 of a LB heavier than the Magnesium one. The weight is fine with me if it will last, but I would guess this frame is now 6 LBs.
    DougJulie states, "In this particular situation, the safety of the rider is at risk, frequency of failure is high (some rockers have failed more than once on the same frame), and the cost to replace is rather low relative to the overall cost of the frame. A full-blown retrofit/recall should be a no-brainer."

    I could not agree more. I guess they are crossing their fingers hoping that no one gets seriously hurt and they do not get sued.

    I am glad that Ellsworth has replaced my bad Rocker Arm(s). I have broken THREE of them now. Hopefully the aluminum one will last along with the frame. I have to say however, they should have replaced the defective rocker arms to keep me from having to walk out of the woods like I have had to do. My most recent rocker arm break left me stranded miles from the car on a Mtbiking vacation. Really sucked walking for miles with an unrideable bike. Luckily I brought my single speed with me so I was able to salvage the rest of my riding vacation.
    I think the Ellsworth Epiphany is the finest All mountain bike out there and will continue supporting Ellsworth as long as they support me!

  25. #25
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    Bakalboy stated "I gota question for you though, you said you broke your rockers three times already. Why did you still get magnesium rockers when you broke it the first time, just curious."

    The reason that I have broken three of them is because apparently there were "bad" magnesium rocker arms that did not have serial numbers or something on them when my bike, a friends, and the local shop owners were purchased (3 Epiphany's total). Ellsworth replaced them with replacement magnesium rockers (leaving the three original magnesium rockers at the shop for future destruct by me). As someone in this thread mentioned earlier, Ellsworth is NOT being proactive regarding this issue at all. They are not getting the word out to their shops telling customers to trade in the magnesium arms for aluminum ones. My local shop owner did not know anything about the aluminum replacement rockers. He too has broken a magnesium rocker arm and had it replaced with another magnesium arm. Through an internet search using "broken rocker arm Ellsworth" I discovered this thread along with several other broken rocker arm issues. Somewhere along the line (probably in the last 6 months I guess?) Ellsworth switched over to aluminum for the rocker arms. Apparantly these magnesium rocker arms have a limited life (2-3 years maybe) whether they are used or not. They corrode easily and obviously snap pretty easily as well. The first one I broke was on my bike for around 2 years. The second one was used for several months, shelved, and then broken by me within a couple of months after I started using it. The third one was broken within around a month.
    I must say that I discovered the first broken rocker arm while inspecting my bike sitting in the garage. When the rocker arm breaks around the shock top mount the bike will flop downward until the seat tube hits the rear wheel. The ride I completed ended up with a 40 mph decent off of the mountain on a two lane paved road. When only one side of the rocker arm breaks the other side takes all of the load. When I discovered the broken arm and flipped it up the bolt came loose and the bike's seat tube flopped downward into the tire. Had this occurred while I was descending at 43 mph it could have been disastrous. I am surprised there have not been any reports of serious injuries yet. I don't know why Ellsworth is not getting the word out and replacing every single one of them. I notice that the retail price on this bike has gone up another $200 to a whopping $2,595!!!!!!! Perhaps Ellsworth is planning to recoup some of their lost profit margin's (due to the warranted replacement rocker arms) with this price increase. When I first saw this bike at a retail price of $2,395 I thought OUCH! It can't be that good. It is an awesome bike, but I don't see anyway I would buy another one at $2,595 with a two year warranty. Especially since you can buy the close runner up (see MTBR reviewer ratings) Ibis Carbon for $595 less, with a THREE year warranty. I am glad that Ellsworth has replaced my rocker arm for "free", but let's be realistic, these replacements are built into the price of the bikes even more so now than ever. I mentioned earlier in the thread that IBIS charged my friend $250 to replace his broken rear triangle on his carbon Mojo. IBIS said it was misused basically and did not warranty his frame. Truth be told, he was riding some free riding type jumps (which he did not tell IBIS) and they stated they were not going to warranty his frame and charged him $250. I think they should have warranted the frame, but he was doing some 3 to 4 ft jumps. Personally I think a 5.5" travel bike should be able to do this, especially with a rider weight of 160 LBs (and 43 years old) but who knows. These are some lightweight incredible machines.
    I found elsewhere in my searches where the seat tube will break on the Epiphany, see: http://www.socaltrailriders.org/foru...-epiphany.html
    I am starting to wonder since my bike is now out of warranty if it is time to let her go and start looking for something new with a warranty. I think I will contact Ellsworth and find out what sort of a replacement they offer when a bike breaks out of warranty. Once I find out I will post what they tell me.
    I want to say once again, The Ellsworth Epiphany is an awesome bike (others think so too check out the number one rated all mountain bike on this site!) and I will support Ellsworth as long as they support me!!!!!!!!!!

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