Results 1 to 96 of 96
  1. #1
    -> SickLines.com <-
    Reputation: mtb_biker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,213

    2007 Ellsworth's

    Posted up some 07 ellsworth's from interbike + more. check it out
    www.sicklines.com

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BOSS's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    166
    Bravo Tony
    I love the evolve
    I love the Enlightenment
    I love the Epiphany in pink
    Last edited by BOSS; 09-28-2006 at 06:10 AM.

  3. #3
    Custom User Title
    Reputation: coldsteele's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1,282
    What no Chaos?
    Team MOJO Wheels.

  4. #4
    Time is not a road.
    Reputation: chad1433's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    4,149
    Here's Francois' pix of the 29" Enlightenment:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    362
    Thanks for the link mtb biker. Those were some blinged out E's! The pink Epiphany is Hawt!

  6. #6
    We're going down WHAT??
    Reputation: jonsocal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    317

    Did you not see the new Ellsworth Wheels????

    I was able to speak to Tony regarding some new wheels that they have designed and will have out in a couple of months. (Still in production and will have them ready to ship in a few months to consumers). He has several styles of wheels including a Carbon Fiber wheelset for the XC types. None of the actual rims were UST style, but with a rim strip and some Stan's No-Tubes, you'll be good to go. I also noticed that the spokes have no "J" bend to them as the hubs are similar to a Cane Creek style or new Mavic style with the straight spokes. 3-pawl ratchet system and very, very sweet looking as well as incredibly light. Just the right bling to complete your ride! (They came in a XC wheelset, Carbon wheelset and Enduro wheelset.)
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "Political correctness is tyranny with manners."
    - Charlton Heston

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    6
    This may be the reason there`s no Chaos:

    http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1030680/

  8. #8
    Time is not a road.
    Reputation: chad1433's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    4,149
    Or this!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    698
    Atlas bikes are still in the works. You can get the pink color on any of the ICT bikes $50 of the purchase price goes to cancer research. Also if you are a breast cancer survivor they will etch the words "survivor" on the top tube along with the ribbon. These bikes take 4-6 weeks to get and must be paid in full at the time you order.
    www.treefortbikes.com Just lauched V2.0 with free shipping and low prices!

  10. #10
    Silver bullet
    Reputation: djb55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    204
    Quote Originally Posted by jonsocal
    I was able to speak to Tony regarding some new wheels that they have designed and will have out in a couple of months. (Still in production and will have them ready to ship in a few months to consumers). He has several styles of wheels including a Carbon Fiber wheelset for the XC types. None of the actual rims were UST style, but with a rim strip and some Stan's No-Tubes, you'll be good to go. I also noticed that the spokes have no "J" bend to them as the hubs are similar to a Cane Creek style or new Mavic style with the straight spokes. 3-pawl ratchet system and very, very sweet looking as well as incredibly light. Just the right bling to complete your ride! (They came in a XC wheelset, Carbon wheelset and Enduro wheelset.)
    Man...carbon XC wheels!! I'm not sure I'd trust them usless they have one heck of a replacement policy.
    Any specs on the weight of any of the wheelsets? Is Ells making the hubs too? Disc?

  11. #11
    The Dude Abides
    Reputation: UP Dude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    212

    Ellsworth Ride

    I figured I would make my contribution to the Interbike report. Here are pics of the much talked about "Ride". It looked pretty slick, definately a very nice cruiser. I'm still not convinced I want a very nice cruiser. I just need to get to the bar, thats all.

    I did get a chance to try the NuVinci hub. It rode smooth and shifted smooth. A few gripes: the shifter isn't as easy to use as it could be. The rubber is a bit soft and there isn't much tread or shape to it, making it hard to grip and turn. I don't know how it performed on the road, I only got to try it on a trainer indoors. And we are going to do it Bob Barker style now: the person who can come closest to guessing the weight without going over wins shock and amazement.

    So the first pic is the high end Ride with carbon fork, bars, fender and NuVinci hub. You'll also notice that its sporting a belt drive (which is actually all plastic, not rubber like your engine's belts). The second pic is the lower end Ride that is all aluminum and more conventional components.

    Ellsworth Ride 1.jpg

    Ellsworth Ride 2.jpg

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    698
    The carbon wheels have been tested over the last season and have performed really well. The hubs are very smooth and the free hub works like a swiss watch.
    www.treefortbikes.com Just lauched V2.0 with free shipping and low prices!

  13. #13
    Why aren't you riding????
    Reputation: offtheedge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    427

    disappointing

    good to see the boys at Ellsworth putting there efforts into the 07 product line....cruisers!?!?!?!?

    and does this mean they will take the bikes from the 06 line-up that are never going to be produced and remove the "coming soon" or "in development" crap off the site.

    how is there no specialist?

    stop with the chaos already, it's fugly and really should have never replaced the joker.

    I got an idea, you have 3, 4 lightweight xc style bikes.

    how about a DH rig?
    the 05 Dare is an amazing frame and still none for this season?

    I guess it's all too apparent where the focus at Ellsworth is now.

  14. #14
    locked - time out
    Reputation: TIMBERRR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,391
    Whats with the beach cruisers.


    comming to a WAL MART near you.........Ellsworth.

  15. #15
    Time is not a road.
    Reputation: chad1433's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by offtheedge
    good to see the boys at Ellsworth putting there efforts into the 07 product line....cruisers!?!?!?!?

    and does this mean they will take the bikes from the 06 line-up that are never going to be produced and remove the "coming soon" or "in development" crap off the site.

    how is there no specialist?

    stop with the chaos already, it's fugly and really should have never replaced the joker.

    I got an idea, you have 3, 4 lightweight xc style bikes.

    how about a DH rig?
    the 05 Dare is an amazing frame and still none for this season?

    I guess it's all too apparent where the focus at Ellsworth is now.
    There was a Specialist on that first link. I agree, they've got some gaps to fill in...

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Biker75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    493

    Gap filled..

    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    There was a Specialist on that first link. I agree, they've got some gaps to fill in...

    Thats what Turner is for!
    Beer has food value. Food has no beer value.

  17. #17
    t66
    t66 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: t66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    619
    Beechcruisers...dropping MTB hopefully in the near future? One can only hope

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    231
    Yep, same impression for me, really don't like it.
    I have a Rogue, thinking to switch to a Cove, closer to my philosophy.
    One was saying that Ells is becoming a "yuppies" brand, start to believe he was right...

  19. #19
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,697
    Quote Originally Posted by offtheedge
    good to see the boys at Ellsworth putting there efforts into the 07 product line....cruisers!?!?!?!?

    and does this mean they will take the bikes from the 06 line-up that are never going to be produced and remove the "coming soon" or "in development" crap off the site.

    how is there no specialist?

    stop with the chaos already, it's fugly and really should have never replaced the joker.

    I got an idea, you have 3, 4 lightweight xc style bikes.

    how about a DH rig?
    the 05 Dare is an amazing frame and still none for this season?

    I guess it's all too apparent where the focus at Ellsworth is now.
    offtheedge, have to agree with you all round really. Have a Nicolai on order. So wanted another Ellsworth, nothing to replace the Dare or carry on with it..... The wheels looks sh!t hot, but the company is about frames is it not, ge tthe backbone sorted, then diversify to other components. It has got tiring seeing coming soon all over the website, the definition of soon is not a long time to me, it has been an age Tony, come on bro...
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  20. #20
    Why aren't you riding????
    Reputation: offtheedge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    427
    at least now I know 2 things for certain:
    1) I'll never sell the Dare frame
    2) IronHorse in 07

  21. #21
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,697
    Quote Originally Posted by offtheedge
    1) I'll never sell the Dare frame
    Hear ya, I F...ed up selling my Dare. Was too early back into my riding to really appreciate, makes me pee blood thinking about it...............

    I am still more or less speechless as to the path it seems Ellsworth is heading, not that me worrying effects them, but it is a real shame......
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  22. #22
    Time is not a road.
    Reputation: chad1433's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    4,149
    I think maybe everyone is overlooking the fact that Ellsworth just built a new building and has developed some very nice bikes for '07. Plus, they're not going to produce model years anymore, so you might see a Dare (which really is the ONLY bike everyone here is upset about) in the spring or summer (I dunno).

    There's a new line of 29" bikes and while they don't appeal to most here, they are a growing segment of the bike world. While I don't get the cruiser market, it too seems to be a growing segment in some circles. I'm sure there's money to be made. Ventana has been making them for a few years now. Electra bikes makes ONLY cruisers, so obviously, someone is out there buying them. Plus, the Nuvinci hub seems pretty innovative - more work needs to be done on eliminating that pesky drivetrain we all have on the back of our bikes.

    Wheels I could do without because there are so many good wheel/parts makers out there right now. This could be a segment that they won't do too well in, but like Specialized doing their own things, I bet they'll stock them on proprietary builds. Also, in some pix, I did see some new clothing in the background, which was hinted at earlier this year. All in all, there's really a lot going on. I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    34
    Hey all,

    Just a few points to throw in here. The ride is indeed a wild one. It is targeted at a few groups, First, it is the Ells owner who wants to go someplace in town or to coffe or to whatever and steill be sporting both the brand and have the wicked-set piece of machinery while doing it. Second, it is for the person (wew have had lots of calls about this over the years for custom stuff) who does not want a road bike and does not want a MTB but wants a high end cycling experience. This is not a cruiser (ha you say) it gets up and rides like the bike that you had when you were 13 and loved to just ride your bike. The Nuvinci hub is the first true change in a bike transmission in a bunch of years (we think 158 but haven't confirmed that) and every part except for the brake and the crank arms wer made one off just for this bike. It may not be for you but since we have sold almost every one of the signature series and they haven't even been made yet, they must be fore someone.

    The single pivot story is this: we have been researching a way to make the Atlas rear srtong, inexpensive and light (three mutually exclusive qualities as you know) and that is tough as hell. Right now we are experimenting with a billit piece but it is really big money which does not fit in with these bikes' price point in the market so on we go trying to get this part right. I owned a distance way before I worked here and I just love those bikes, we have lots and lots of people waiting for the Chaos so it is not that we aren't trying to make it but fitting all three of those puzzle pieces together is a bear. Stay tuned though.

    To save you a phone call, the Enlighenments,and the Evolve will be out at the end of the year and the wheels (they are so stiff it is nutty) will be complete in November.

    Cheers.

  24. #24
    Why aren't you riding????
    Reputation: offtheedge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    427
    Chad, I totally understand and agree with you about the new facility situation, but coming soon for a whole season just looks bad.

    My concern isn't with the Dare frame or lack there of, it's with the overall position the company has taken on the gravity sector of the market. The direction and the focus Ellsworth has taken clearly shows a bias towards XC and thatís fine. They should and I'm sure will pursue the most profitable and self gratifying sector of MTBing. That's good business, but in that decision they have to realize that by putting a low(er) priority on DH/FR they will sour many riders in those disciplines wanting to buy frame from a company that supports them. Ellsworth obviously doesn't have much interest in that scene other than selling Rogue frames. Come on, if you show up to Interfile with "cruisers" and no DH frame, enough said.


    Dave, first thank you for sticking your neck into this thread. It does look much better to know you or any employee of any company is willing to enter a forum......good or bad.

    As far as the Atlas/single pivot rears are concerned I just have to ask how this is difficult.
    There are a ton of companies putting out single pivot frames with acceptably stiff rear ends.
    Morewood, Orange, Santa Cruz, Ironhorse, to name just a few. Seems to me that wheel has been re-invented many times.


    I'm not bi*t*hing here either. I think Tony and his company should do whatever they feel is right, but I will be shopping bikes from a company that is more committed to my style of riding next year.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PAINpusher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    411
    I think this question is still on topic...

    Has the newly redesigned "07" Moment, been released yet? I haven't heard ANY chatter on this yet.
    Hydrate or Die Trying

  26. #26
    Time is not a road.
    Reputation: chad1433's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by offtheedge
    Chad, I totally understand and agree with you about the new facility situation, but coming soon for a whole season just looks bad.

    My concern isn't with the Dare frame or lack there of, it's with the overall position the company has taken on the gravity sector of the market. The direction and the focus Ellsworth has taken clearly shows a bias towards XC and thatís fine. They should and I'm sure will pursue the most profitable and self gratifying sector of MTBing. That's good business, but in that decision they have to realize that by putting a low(er) priority on DH/FR they will sour many riders in those disciplines wanting to buy frame from a company that supports them. Ellsworth obviously doesn't have much interest in that scene other than selling Rogue frames. Come on, if you show up to Interfile with "cruisers" and no DH frame, enough said.


    Yet, Josh Bender is now a signed Ellsworth rider...

  27. #27
    Why aren't you riding????
    Reputation: offtheedge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    427
    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    Yet, Josh Bender is now a signed Ellsworth rider...

    go figure

  28. #28
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,697
    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    Yet, Josh Bender is now a signed Ellsworth rider...
    Chad, dude, that is a lame one from you, didnt expect that.... That has nothing to do with what segment of frame Ellsworths is focussing on. Josh Bender does not ride frames cause he has a passion for a frame builder, it is for mulla, doe rae me, dosh. It will be said otherwise, but come on......

    I too am pleased Dave that you have come on and let us know your thoughts. No one was at all gettign at Ellsworth as a compnay. We know a new plant has been built etc. But the focus has moved away from FR/DH, which is your business call.

    Its all good, and yes those cruiser do look the ducks nuts, but I would like to see the coming soon words filled before wheels and cruisers are the thing....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  29. #29
    Time is not a road.
    Reputation: chad1433's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Chad, dude, that is a lame one from you, didnt expect that.... That has nothing to do with what segment of frame Ellsworths is focussing on. Josh Bender does not ride frames cause he has a passion for a frame builder, it is for mulla, doe rae me, dosh. It will be said otherwise, but come on......
    I'm not noting this to show Josh Bender's allegiances, I'm noting it to demonstrate Ellsworth's mindset. To pay a rider like this to ride your bikes must show some dedication to the FR/DH market.

    I expect that the bikes and this rider have not yet been revealed, suggesting bigger things to come. Or, maybe they just like him and want to pay him to ride their bikes...

  30. #30
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,697
    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    I'm not noting this to show Josh Bender's allegiances, I'm noting it to demonstrate Ellsworth's mindset. To pay a rider like this to ride your bikes must show some dedication to the FR/DH market.

    I expect that the bikes and this rider have not yet been revealed, suggesting bigger things to come. Or, maybe they just like him and want to pay him to ride their bikes...
    Agree with the mindset part from Ellsworth but he has been signed for sometime, what is the use in him promoting FR/DH if they do not have any products for this market apart from the Rogue..... They could be paying him so no one else can have him

    It is just a little sad for me to not see these models hit the stores or website. Stuck behind Ellsworth in New Zealand where they were about as known personally as a jiant unknown thing, stuck with them even with all the sh!t I got from people, didnt bother me, would like to ride one again one day..... But not at present, nothing in the lineup for maw....

    Still think the Id I had was a fan f..ing tastic bike, climbed and went hard it did......
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  31. #31
    Why aren't you riding????
    Reputation: offtheedge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    427
    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    I'm not noting this to show Josh Bender's allegiances, I'm noting it to demonstrate Ellsworth's mindset. To pay a rider like this to ride your bikes must show some dedication to the FR/DH market.

    I expect that the bikes and this rider have not yet been revealed, suggesting bigger things to come. Or, maybe they just like him and want to pay him to ride their bikes...

    nah, i'm not buying it. Bender isn't the freak of nature he was 5 years ago. Hell, the stuff the FRers were and are doing are incorrporated into DH race coarses now. Just going big had it's time and now we've moved on, i.e. bike parks and slopestyle events. I haven't seen his name on any of those bills. That and the fact he is riding a Dare( i believe) and it is an all out race frame. Why not sponsor someone who races.

    I do however love the fact that The Destroyer of the burliest frames on the planet is riding what e-rumor has dubbed weak sauce. Wonder if he has broken one yet?

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Futurepath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    194

    Correction...

    Didn't mean to offend, and deleted the message although it's still here. I'm just not coming across the way I intended.
    Last edited by Futurepath; 10-04-2006 at 10:22 AM. Reason: Not coming across the way I intended.

  33. #33
    Why aren't you riding????
    Reputation: offtheedge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    427
    Quote Originally Posted by Futurepath
    All this griping is just annoying. Instead of griping about Ellsworth, market target, yuppie brand, etc, go buy another brand if you don't like Ellsworth. People can't just have a casual conversation about things nowadays, people have to complain about everything that's not going the way they want. Ellsworth can listen to customers but they can't read our minds for a bike. I supported Santa Cruz bikes for several years until their customer service went bad for dealers and customers. I switched to Ellsworth because their customer service is a lot better. Ellsworth has been willing to help me anytime I've needed it.

    I'm 30 and NOT in the yuppie rider classification as if it matters. At least people are riding their bikes and trying to be fit. So what if Ellworth is heading away from being a small brand to a more well known or popular brand. As long as their making nice bikes and treating their customers well than what does it matter. Would ya rather them grow in the market to have money for research for even nicer bikes or stay small and not be able do the research they want or need. Desiging, engineering, fabricating and marketing bikes is an expensive process and requires a lot of capital. I'd surely like to see Ellsworth have the capital to work on new ideas. I'm not trying to be an Ellsworth cheerleader here but I'm so sick of the complaining on these forums. I see more negative comments and griping then anything positive.

    last i read this thread was a bunch of level headed adults/Ellsworth owners talking about the company direction, not bit*hing.

    So far you are the most negative thing in here.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Futurepath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    194
    I'm not attacking people in this forum nor am I trying to cause a debate. If you look throughout the forums people are doing a lot of griping about silly matters instead of discussing bikes. Yeah, guess I'm griping too. I'll admit that.

    The comment about Ellsworth becoming a "yuppie brand" kind of struck a nerve. I just wish people wouldn't try to classify everything or other people. I'm happy just to see people ride.

  35. #35
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,697
    Quote Originally Posted by Futurepath
    I'm not attacking people in this forum nor am I trying to cause a debate. If you look throughout the forums people are doing a lot of griping about silly matters instead of discussing bikes. Yeah, guess I'm griping too. I'll admit that.

    The comment about Ellsworth becoming a "yuppie brand" kind of struck a nerve. I just wish people wouldn't try to classify everything or other people. I'm happy just to see people ride.
    Futurepath, its all good bro, dont forget it is not young folk buying Ellsworth, it is us from mid 20's on with disposable income. Not knocking anyone at all, that is Ellsworths target market.. Have to pull you up on your post though, this was a fair and reasonable thread, no one was getting at Ellsworth, quite the opposite. We are all past or present customers whom want to purchase their frames, but the segment in the market is a no go zone for Ellsworth at present....

    Your comments are correct though, there is loads of negativity.... Hang I have a GBOXX Nicolai on order, have had my fair share of SH!T slung at me for getting a Nicolai. It was no different to when I got an Ellsworth. Water off a ducks back....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  36. #36
    Why aren't you riding????
    Reputation: offtheedge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    427
    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Futurepath, its all good bro, dont forget it is not young folk buying Ellsworth, it is us from mid 20's on with disposable income. Not knocking anyone at all, that is Ellsworths target market.. Have to pull you up on your post though, this was a fair and reasonable thread, no one was getting at Ellsworth, quite the opposite. We are all past or present customers whom want to purchase their frames, but the segment in the market is a no go zone for Ellsworth at present....

    Your comments are correct though, there is loads of negativity.... Hang I have a GBOXX Nicolai on order, have had my fair share of SH!T slung at me for getting a Nicolai. It was no different to when I got an Ellsworth. Water off a ducks back....

    What frame Whafe? and not even knowing I will say......droooooooooollll!

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Futurepath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    194

    Nice website Whafe! Dig it.

    I understand the issue with Ells and the freeride/ downhill segment. Living in West Virginia where freeride and downhill is popular (specifically at Snowshoe Mountain), I can see this segments points. I really enjoy my Epiphany, especially for the riding in my area. Hopefully some good ol'fashioned Ells downhill fun will come soon.

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    231

  39. #39
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,697
    Quote Originally Posted by offtheedge
    What frame Whafe? and not even knowing I will say......droooooooooollll!
    OTE, check my website, and go to Whafes Project Nicolai.... Scope out my new born daughter also........
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  40. #40
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,697
    Quote Originally Posted by Futurepath
    I understand the issue with Ells and the freeride/ downhill segment. Living in West Virginia where freeride and downhill is popular (specifically at Snowshoe Mountain), I can see this segments points. I really enjoy my Epiphany, especially for the riding in my area. Hopefully some good ol'fashioned Ells downhill fun will come soon.
    Thanks for the postives on the site Futurepath, have enjoyed doing it. Being from New Zealand and living in Spain, helps me share pictures with home etc, along with my baby Mia. And my scooters, which keep me sane..................... There will be a new Dare one day..... I said though that the GBOXX Nicolai will be my last big jumper.... Too many f..ed bones in the past.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  41. #41
    Time is not a road.
    Reputation: chad1433's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    4,149

  42. #42
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,697
    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    That 29er the EVOLVE looks beautiful. Am liking that alot... Same with that Enlightenment SS, had emailed Ellsworth etc about the One, but never EVER heard back...... Would have had one by now, no pun
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  43. #43
    Why aren't you riding????
    Reputation: offtheedge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    427
    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    OTE, check my website, and go to Whafes Project Nicolai.... Scope out my new born daughter also........

    Congrats on the beautiful girl and the TFR. site looks great.

  44. #44
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,697
    Quote Originally Posted by offtheedge
    Congrats on the beautiful girl and the TFR. site looks great.
    Thanks offtheedge, Man alive life changes when a baby comes, mtb is my only thing I do on my lonesome, which is a good thing, they would lock me up probly if I couldnt ride.....

    Yep looking forward to the Nicolai, have drooled over them for years, along with the internal transmissions, going to be interesting
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  45. #45
    Why aren't you riding????
    Reputation: offtheedge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    427
    The evolve is way nice! doesn't look all huge and roadbike-ish.

  46. #46
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,697
    Quote Originally Posted by offtheedge
    The evolve is way nice! doesn't look all huge and roadbike-ish.
    Well put, doesnt look like a spare prick at a wedding..... I like it muchly
    Attached Images Attached Images
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    226

    The real Truth

    Time heals all wounds and reveals all flaws. Or, it reveals one's true identity. My take on TE new 2007 line:

    Obviously, with no Dare, Chaos or Distance, Id and only the Rogue (which does not work; more on that later) TE is not catering to the hardcore freeride/DH market. Which is smart. Ellsworth bikes are not know for being the best DH'ers or Freeriders, so he sticks to what sells the most and sees the less in warranty returns. Good businessman. The Line looks sharp. Clean, easy to build (read: cheap to do) and with a premium markup. But little of substance. No new design. No new bike of relevance. No new DH or freeride bike. And don't think the Rogue is it.

    For the bike to be Freeride, it needs to be stiff, heavy and strong. The Rogue is light, flexy and despite the travel, it is NOT a North Shore machine. Compared to a Fly, a bike it is "supposedly" competing with in the marketplace, there is no comparison. The rear travel may be the same, but the end result is not. At least TE is sticking with what he knows best, and at least what he can extract the most out of the ICT patent. Smart business, but bad bike business. The Foes FXR 2:1 will outdo most of TE's line and be stronger. I will concede that the ICT is good at brake jack, but little things like that are lost on people who do not see fresh, new ideas and forward movement, and not just on bikes.

    I like the fact the finishes are excellent, but beauty, as they say, is only skin deep and in the MTB world, the skin is very thin.

    Truth be told.

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    698
    Has anybody stopped to think that just because it wasn't at interbike doesn't mean that it's not going to be built or introduced. People have been giving them sh*t about THE RIDE. Nuvinci was going to release the drivetrain at interbike and they were the company that had the bike it went with. There was at least one bike at the booth that wasn't revealed to the public. Thats right how dare they go to interbike and not show everything. There is going to be some cool stuff coming don't right them off just yet
    www.treefortbikes.com Just lauched V2.0 with free shipping and low prices!

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    226
    Sorry buddy.

    You do not move to a new manufacturing facility in Vancouver, Washington (far too much a coincidence for Vancouver, BC for me) and NOT make DH/true FR a focus. Foes is not the best XC bike around, but in every other arena, Foes will outdo any Ellsworth any day of the week. Having owned 2 Dares myself and 2 Flys, the Fly is much better the bike, in every way. Kind of tells you why I switched.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    226
    Typical company man telling the similar typical company story. Pathetic.

    Boils down to dedication, resources and care. Obviously in short supply. Funny, with everything you have said, Foes has done it and done fabulously well. I cannot understand.

    Fact is: Ellsworth has taken the easy way out. Make what is easy to make, sell and give a huge markup. You actually admit, for a hardcore bike company, that you tailor to the "about town crowd". Your post is the most lame thing I have ever read from any company, period. And to think TE actually PAID you to defend his company with this BS.

    Again, kind of why it shows I am now a Foes faithful and not Ellsworth.

    But eventually, the Truth shines through.

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    698
    Quote Originally Posted by blackfly
    Your post is the most lame thing I have ever read from any company, period. And to think TE actually PAID you to defend his company with this BS.
    Was this aimed at me? I don't work for Ellsworth but, I am a dealer. I also deal with C'dale, Giant, Santa Cruz, Cove and Sycip. My personal ride is a SC Heckler and yes it's made in china like a lot of the "core bikes" now.
    www.treefortbikes.com Just lauched V2.0 with free shipping and low prices!

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    141
    There are alot of good arguements and points in this topic. But has anyone ever considered that Downhill bikes really don't sell that well?? Why do you think that other manufacters are slow to introduce anything. Ask Intense or other bike developer, they will tell you the same thing. I bet intense sells (10) 6.6 for every (1) M3. In reality downhill specific bikes account for probably 2% of the market. The Rogue is super tough burly bike, it is completely at home on the shore or anywhere there are large hits. Flexy? Have you ever ridden one? There are images all over of Bender doing large drops on that bike, not a problem. Didn't Ellsworth just open a new factory to delevop there OWN (in the US, unlike other companies) bikes just over a year ago? Give them some Time, Tony's a smart guy I'm sure there is going to be some sweet bikes coming out soon. I'm sure they just need some time to plant their feet. Interbike does not always indicate a companies focus.

  53. #53
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Futurepath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    194
    Oh man...I like it. Nice paint job too. Whafe...I imagine you miss New Zealand. That place is such a beautiful country. It's one of my dreams to go there but soooo expensive from the East coast of the U.S. Your one lucky dude ro have lived among such scenery. I'm sure Spain is nice too.

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Futurepath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    194

    Maybe a dumb question but...

    About the Evolve...what market is it specifically directed towards? I love it but it looks like it would go between the Truth and the Epiphany?! The thing is there would be no need to make an inbetween bike. I still like it though. Looks wise, it makes me think "my prescious".

    Just went back to look at the Evolve but it reminds me of my Epiphany but not near as beefy. Seems like it would go in place of the Truth.
    Last edited by Futurepath; 10-04-2006 at 11:24 PM.

  55. #55
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,697
    Quote Originally Posted by applegreenheckler
    Was this aimed at me? I don't work for Ellsworth but, I am a dealer. I also deal with C'dale, Giant, Santa Cruz, Cove and Sycip. My personal ride is a SC Heckler and yes it's made in china like a lot of the "core bikes" now.
    AGH, read the post, it was aimed at dave@ellsworth, not at all at you bro..................
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  56. #56
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    231
    The Rogue does look thin BUT it is not flexy at all.
    It does look light but it's around 4 Kg (8.8) with coil, is that light ??
    The finishing is fantastic, just throw water on the frame and it comes brand new, even after almost a year of abuse.
    I agree with most comments, I believe that we don't want only to ride a bike, we want the philosophy that goes with it.
    When I see a Cove I think Northshore freeride spirit, and that's what I like about a brand since I'm only riding MTB, no road, no cruise.
    Now ells can sell a million of whatever bicycles, good for them.
    And yes I do have a Rogue.

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    698
    The Evolve is aimed at the 29'er market. The only company making a somewhat decent full suspension rig was Intense with the Vpp 29er. Ellsworth has brought that mark even higher. It has a geometry that handles more like a traditional bike with all of the benifits of a 29er. And as pictures show the standover is decent. The tubing looks to be simular to that of the Epi but with out the mag rockers. While the bike is an XC bike like the Truth and Epi the customer that is going to by one of these will most likely not consider one of those models but other 29er models.
    www.treefortbikes.com Just lauched V2.0 with free shipping and low prices!

  58. #58
    Time is not a road.
    Reputation: chad1433's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    4,149
    Hey look everybody - Blackfly is BACK! Get our your grinders out 'cause there's an AXE TO BE GROUND. And remember, logic and reason do not work on the FLY (FOESfly that is! If you ain't got one, don't come to the SHORE...).

    Hey, what's that? Fly-paper, over on the Foes boards! Go get some!

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Futurepath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    194
    Everyone has probably seen some of the complaints about the mag rockers on the Epi. and so far I can't complain too much. Originally, I thought people who live near coastal towns (salt water) would have more issues. I have noticed some of the "pits" in mine but it doesn't or hasn't effected performance. Hopefully, if it would ever become a problem down the road one could get replacement rockers.

    Has anyone here heard of any or know of any issues with the mag rockers?

    Guess I wasn't paying attention to the 29's on the Evolve. That would be a great bike for some 24 hour races!

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    698
    they aren't using mag to keep the costs down.
    www.treefortbikes.com Just lauched V2.0 with free shipping and low prices!

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    292
    Quote Originally Posted by blackfly
    Typical company man telling the similar typical company story. Pathetic.

    Boils down to dedication, resources and care. Obviously in short supply. Funny, with everything you have said, Foes has done it and done fabulously well. I cannot understand.

    Fact is: Ellsworth has taken the easy way out. Make what is easy to make, sell and give a huge markup. You actually admit, for a hardcore bike company, that you tailor to the "about town crowd". Your post is the most lame thing I have ever read from any company, period. And to think TE actually PAID you to defend his company with this BS.

    Again, kind of why it shows I am now a Foes faithful and not Ellsworth.

    But eventually, the Truth shines through.

    change the record *yawn*

  62. #62
    Hill crawler
    Reputation: TruckeeLocal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    314
    Thank you for the info on the Ride. I had no idea what it was for and didn't figure that Ellsworth would get into the 'Cruiser' market which is how I see it positioned in my life - seemed to work for Merlin with their Newsboy or whatever they called it. I'm interested but there's still not enough info to make a purchase decision. Like weight, gearing, availability, and so on. I guess you're still creating buzz and getting a feel for market acceptance. Price point is silly, but then these are toys and you've proven that folks will pay the $$$s. Hell it's cooler than the normal tricked-out $300-$500 beach bike.

    Thanks for particpating in these forums despite the heat it draws from some of the nay-sayers. It adds value from my perspective.

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    698
    I got to ride The Ride and it is pretty damn cool. It is aimed at a pretty select market but if I had the cash and was looking for something to cruise around the Hamptons or Malibu on I would totally plunk down the $$$. The Nuvinci drivetrain is wild. The fenders and fork/handle bar are carbon.
    www.treefortbikes.com Just lauched V2.0 with free shipping and low prices!

  64. #64
    Hill crawler
    Reputation: TruckeeLocal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    314
    Quote Originally Posted by applegreenheckler
    I got to ride The Ride and it is pretty damn cool. It is aimed at a pretty select market but if I had the cash and was looking for something to cruise around the Hamptons or Malibu on I would totally plunk down the $$$. The Nuvinci drivetrain is wild. The fenders and fork/handle bar are carbon.
    How about riding it up in the mountains ? Trolling around town for my coffee and newspaper ? Is it heavy, how's the gearing for the hills, what's the 'entry level' ($3k ) one like ? I've got money, it's toys I missing (I just sold my main boat)

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Futurepath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    194

    Check out the Ellsworth site...

    http://www.ellsworthbikes.com/./bikes/index.cfm

    There's some new bikes on the site not at Interbike. One called "The Legend", and a Ti Truth (both in development). Also, check out the cruisers...Over $3000 price tag. A bit much but guess there is a market.

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    362
    Quote Originally Posted by Futurepath
    http://www.ellsworthbikes.com/./bikes/index.cfm

    There's some new bikes on the site not at Interbike. One called "The Legend", and a Ti Truth (both in development). Also, check out the cruisers...Over $3000 price tag. A bit much but guess there is a market.

    Holy Crap! $10K for a Legend, whoa!

  67. #67
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    226
    No, logic and reason do not work.

    I had a wonderful nightride tonight on the Shore with my new Fly. Soaked up all the chatter, drops and logs I could throw at it. Bike was stiff, stable and tracked true, despite the fact the ground is loose due to little rain. But it will come, believe me. Just like the ACL surgery I will be needing soon. I have had the issue for 5 years, but it seems I can no longer hold it off.

    Comparing my old to new Fly, the new one is far better, in every way. And from the litany of bikes I have tried, this is saying a lot. Just you wait till I have nothing but time on my hands.

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    226
    I do not lament any seller in the choices he makes to sell. But for me, I am willing to pay the premium to get a locally welded, designed and made bike. Not all can, but do not assume that due to this that there is no difference between a Chinese welded and American/Canadian welded frame. It may not be obvious in the short term, but it will be in the long run.

  69. #69
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Futurepath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    194
    The "Legend" on the Ellsworth bike site better be gold plated or something for $10,000. Yes, 10 grand! I hope that's a typo...

  70. #70
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,697
    One of those Ride Special Edition would be a blast to have in the shed, but it wouldnt get much use really.... Would they appreciate in value I wonder, any investment value?

    They look a real laugh. Very sheak and cool....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  71. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    698
    Quote Originally Posted by TruckeeLocal
    How about riding it up in the mountains ? Trolling around town for my coffee and newspaper ? Is it heavy, how's the gearing for the hills, what's the 'entry level' ($3k ) one like ? I've got money, it's toys I missing (I just sold my main boat)
    with the way the cvt works it was kinda hard to tell on the flat show floor about how the grearing or lack of works under a climb. The bike it self is fairly light but not like cat 1 racer light. The Nuvinci hub weighs about the same as a shimano 8spd internal. I thought the entry level one lost the nuvinci and went with a standard 8spd but the web lists it with the Nuvinci. Maybe there was a change in spec?
    www.treefortbikes.com Just lauched V2.0 with free shipping and low prices!

  72. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    698
    Quote Originally Posted by Futurepath
    http://www.ellsworthbikes.com/./bikes/index.cfm

    There's some new bikes on the site not at Interbike. One called "The Legend", and a Ti Truth (both in development). Also, check out the cruisers...Over $3000 price tag. A bit much but guess there is a market.
    The legend was there just not on display to the "public" The legend is a complete bike for $10,000. It is based on the Epi but done in Ti and Carbon with a totally pimp build kit and truly custom wheels. I have built Epi's for customers with a simular build kit and custom colors for $7,000+
    www.treefortbikes.com Just lauched V2.0 with free shipping and low prices!

  73. #73
    Hill crawler
    Reputation: TruckeeLocal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    314
    Thanks, by the way my wife has an AppleGreenJuliana. I don't think she's used it this year !

    It seemed wierd that there was a $1000 jump in price point to get some carbon bits and forks. Perhaps the price jump reflects a drive train change too but then that would be contrary to the concept of the bike and would be enough to take me out of the market. I can't get excited about chains vs belts and carbon fiber but hub gears are neat on a cruiser, oops lifestyle, bike.

  74. #74
    The Dude Abides
    Reputation: UP Dude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    212
    Quote Originally Posted by applegreenheckler
    The Nuvinci hub weighs about the same as a shimano 8spd internal.
    The NuVinci hub weighs 9 pounds!!! Yes, 9 lbs. And that comes directly from the NuVinci booth. They say that their initial focus is efficiency, and that weight savings will come later.

    I was also told that they hope to have a mountain bike ready hub in the next year or so. In comparison, a Rohloff hub weighs about 3.8 lbs. I didn't think the NuVinci was worth twice the weight. Interesting to see how it all plays out.

  75. #75
    Hill crawler
    Reputation: TruckeeLocal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    314
    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    One of those Ride Special Edition would be a blast to have in the shed, but it wouldnt get much use really.... Would they appreciate in value I wonder, any investment value?

    They look a real laugh. Very sheak and cool....
    I think that's "chic" ? And I agree that if/when I get one it will only be used sporadically. I don't know how many bikes you've got (I've got 4) so no bike gets used a lot. This bike is different and is designed for different purposes, a lifestyle bike ?, and will only be used for posing at the coffee shop of at cruiser events. Sad to 'invest' so much on a bike for such little usage but then value equations go out the window when it comes to toys. Hell any Ellsworth bike has no realistic value equation when you can pick up a bike that performs nearly as well at a fraction of the price and this one has an even sillier value equation when a cruiser can cost $100.

    I suggest that no bike can be considered a financial investment with any expectation of price appreciation (except maybe a TdF winner's bike). Anyone want to buy my hand built Richey - hardly used, original equipment, excellent condition, collectors item ?

  76. #76
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,697
    Quote Originally Posted by UP Dude
    The NuVinci hub weighs 9 pounds!!! Yes, 9 lbs. And that comes directly from the NuVinci booth. They say that their initial focus is efficiency, and that weight savings will come later.

    I was also told that they hope to have a mountain bike ready hub in the next year or so. In comparison, a Rohloff hub weighs about 3.8 lbs. I didn't think the NuVinci was worth twice the weight. Interesting to see how it all plays out.
    9 pounds !!!!! that counts me out, some cool marketing they have done on this cruiser, looks rad, but no weights, not that that would be an issue, but hang 9 pounds...... Thats more than what the GBOXX weighs on the Nicolai GBOXX frame I am getting...... Be keen to hear form someone that had a scoot around on the RIDE. Could be a cool show piece...
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  77. #77
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,697
    Quote Originally Posted by TruckeeLocal
    I think that's "chic" ? And I agree that if/when I get one it will only be used sporadically. I don't know how many bikes you've got (I've got 4) so no bike gets used a lot. This bike is different and is designed for different purposes, a lifestyle bike ?, and will only be used for posing at the coffee shop of at cruiser events. Sad to 'invest' so much on a bike for such little usage but then value equations go out the window when it comes to toys. Hell any Ellsworth bike has no realistic value equation when you can pick up a bike that performs nearly as well at a fraction of the price and this one has an even sillier value equation when a cruiser can cost $100.

    I suggest that no bike can be considered a financial investment with any expectation of price appreciation (except maybe a TdF winner's bike). Anyone want to buy my hand built Richey - hardly used, original equipment, excellent condition, collectors item ?
    Too true TL. A Jones Ti SS may appreciate...... This indeed would be a cool toy, of course there is no logical reason why a man would need this bike. But hey, it looks the ducks nuts.... Just now worried re Up Dude giving the weight of the hub, 9 pounds !!!!

    I signed up with Ellsworth, will see what they come back with... Colour wise its a hard one, I quite like the White for some reason........ Wonder if they will sell 500 of them...mmmmm Will await an email to see the wait and the length of the wait....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  78. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    226
    You forget that in order to push the FR/DH bikes E had signed up Dangerous Dan and his Flowriders to ride Dares and Jokers. But then, the Joker showed multiple signs of weakness. I guess E is simply trying to fool the masses thinking that if they have Josh, then the bikes must be strong, but who cares how many he goes through.

    Dan and his boys lasted only 2 seasons on E bikes. Should tell you enough.

    I personally know that Dan loved the extruded Dare. It was the frame he broke the least. And as a frequent patron of his home shop, OnTop, I got to see every build and every failure.

    TE failure was moving away from the extruded technology and thinking he knew what was best, but only for his wallet, not the rider. I wonder who is ahead now.

    I miss my 2001 Dare, but on second thought, my 2006 Fly makes me forget it and its quirks. Time to ride.

  79. #79
    Rolling
    Reputation: lidarman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    11,110
    Quote Originally Posted by blackfly

    Again, kind of why it shows I am now a Foes faithful and not Ellsworth.
    .
    Also shows that you are an obsessive Ellsworth forum stalker or something much more scary....Hurry, hide the children.

  80. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    174
    Quote Originally Posted by applegreenheckler
    The legend was there just not on display to the "public" The legend is a complete bike for $10,000. It is based on the Epi but done in Ti and Carbon with a totally pimp build kit and truly custom wheels. I have built Epi's for customers with a simular build kit and custom colors for $7,000+
    any idea what the ti truth frame will retail for? and who's gonna weld the ti font?

    And just when Ells started licensing/supplying the ict rear to Merlin, they now have a ti truth in the works... hmm questions questions....

  81. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    141
    Quote Originally Posted by blackfly
    You forget that in order to push the FR/DH bikes E had signed up Dangerous Dan and his Flowriders to ride Dares and Jokers. But then, the Joker showed multiple signs of weakness. I guess E is simply trying to fool the masses thinking that if they have Josh, then the bikes must be strong, but who cares how many he goes through.

    Dan and his boys lasted only 2 seasons on E bikes. Should tell you enough.

    I personally know that Dan loved the extruded Dare. It was the frame he broke the least. And as a frequent patron of his home shop, OnTop, I got to see every build and every failure.

    TE failure was moving away from the extruded technology and thinking he knew what was best, but only for his wallet, not the rider. I wonder who is ahead now.

    I miss my 2001 Dare, but on second thought, my 2006 Fly makes me forget it and its quirks. Time to ride.

    OK, this post makes absolutely no sense.

    1) Fool the masses? When did Mountainbike manufacters turn into conspiracy artist? To my knowledge almost all of them are trying to put the best rider on their product to represent the brand.

    2) Dangerous Dan and his team were probably dropped, not because they broke too many bikes? But because they became, how should I say this.... uncool about 3 years ago. There are riders now that go bigger and better than Dan and his riders ever did. Hence Josh Bender.

    3) Cold Drawn tubes are much, much stronger than extruded tubes period. Extrusion is basically the playdough of tube technology. With Drawn tubes you get a much stronger, consistent product. Not only that, drawing tubes costs more to manufacter, so how is this saving his wallet?

    I agree that Ellsworth is probably not doing everything perfect, but then who is? Not Foes.

  82. #82
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,697
    Quote Originally Posted by rockit
    OK, this post makes absolutely no sense.

    1) Fool the masses? When did Mountainbike manufacters turn into conspiracy artist? To my knowledge almost all of them are trying to put the best rider on their product to represent the brand.

    2) Dangerous Dan and his team were probably dropped, not because they broke too many bikes? But because they became, how should I say this.... uncool about 3 years ago. There are riders now that go bigger and better than Dan and his riders ever did. Hence Josh Bender.

    3) Cold Drawn tubes are much, much stronger than extruded tubes period. Extrusion is basically the playdough of tube technology. With Drawn tubes you get a much stronger, consistent product. Not only that, drawing tubes costs more to manufacter, so how is this saving his wallet?

    I agree that Ellsworth is probably not doing everything perfect, but then who is? Not Foes.
    rockit, you will have no luck at having a factual conversation with our buddy blackfly, he is a good fella, but he is going to get cancer considering how much energy he puts into trying to destroy Ellsworth. Tony is loosiing no sleep over blackfly, but blackfly is losing sleep over Ellsworth.................. You bring some very factual points to the thread, keep them coming, but trying to reason with blackfly falls on deaf ears.....

    He loves his Foes Fly, which is all good......................... blackfly, did you buddy sell his almost brand new Rogue? An honest question, did it make you happy that he sold it before he would break and prove you right?

    The North Shore cooling off blackfly, much snow as yet?
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    231
    Quote Originally Posted by blackfly
    Time heals all wounds and reveals all flaws. Or, it reveals one's true identity. My take on TE new 2007 line:

    Obviously, with no Dare, Chaos or Distance, Id and only the Rogue (which does not work; more on that later) TE is not catering to the hardcore freeride/DH market. Which is smart. Ellsworth bikes are not know for being the best DH'ers or Freeriders, so he sticks to what sells the most and sees the less in warranty returns. Good businessman. The Line looks sharp. Clean, easy to build (read: cheap to do) and with a premium markup. But little of substance. No new design. No new bike of relevance. No new DH or freeride bike. And don't think the Rogue is it.

    For the bike to be Freeride, it needs to be stiff, heavy and strong. The Rogue is light, flexy and despite the travel, it is NOT a North Shore machine. Compared to a Fly, a bike it is "supposedly" competing with in the marketplace, there is no comparison. The rear travel may be the same, but the end result is not. At least TE is sticking with what he knows best, and at least what he can extract the most out of the ICT patent. Smart business, but bad bike business. The Foes FXR 2:1 will outdo most of TE's line and be stronger. I will concede that the ICT is good at brake jack, but little things like that are lost on people who do not see fresh, new ideas and forward movement, and not just on bikes.

    I like the fact the finishes are excellent, but beauty, as they say, is only skin deep and in the MTB world, the skin is very thin.

    Truth be told.
    Another opinion from freeborn.co.uk :

    Here in the UK there are often big discussions as to the maximum required travel on a full-suspension bike, but there are no rules. People can often be put off by believing that long travel bikes do not pedal well, or that they are excessively heavy - not is the case with the Ellsworth Rogue...

    The Rogue will provide you with that long travel yet include efficiency and a weight that will give you an advantage in more ways than one. "But is it tough enough?" you say... The answer is yes. The Rogue has the strength and stiffness of anything else in the same travel range. No corners are cut or expenses spared to achieve this. Strength is not in a heavy tubeset or a mass of gussetts, it is in a precise manufacturing process. With a 2 year unlimited warranty the Rogue will inspire confidence whilst ensuring reliability and a ride that will put the "grin factor" back in to you riding.

  84. #84
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    31
    One quick not the Legend wich is basically an Ephiphany with a Ti front and carbon rear is not $10,000 for just the frame that is for a complete bike.

  85. #85
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MartinS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,518
    I asked about the Chaos at interbike, they said they were busy enough filling orders on the other bikes (who's prices have dropped in the last coupleof years) so it's kinda been put on the backburner. The Joker was a nicer looking bike though but since SAPA doesn't weld up their frames any more they didn't have access to the tri void extruded front ends. That Rogue looks pretty interesting though...

  86. #86
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MartinS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,518
    The extrude tech was from Sapa, the company that used to weld up the Ellsworths (and SC Nomads etc) and those old Marins with the same front ends. Since going their own way Ells no longer had the access to the extruded tubeset. Glad you like your Fly, those cornutt shocks ride amazingly, any warranty issues yet though - several of my buddies have broken flys and monos- but to their credit Foes even welded up a heavier duty Mono for one guy who did in two front ends.

  87. #87
    Why aren't you riding????
    Reputation: offtheedge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    427
    Quote Originally Posted by MartinS
    I asked about the Chaos at interbike, they said they were busy enough filling orders on the other bikes (who's prices have dropped in the last coupleof years) so it's kinda been put on the backburner. The Joker was a nicer looking bike though but since SAPA doesn't weld up their frames any more they didn't have access to the tri void extruded front ends. That Rogue looks pretty interesting though...

    thanks, you just answered a years worth of questions i had....

  88. #88
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Bullit_cn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,892
    How about some 07 Truth pictures? I am almost got my funds completed to own one...share some pictures please
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  89. #89
    -> SickLines.com <-
    Reputation: mtb_biker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,213
    From Interbike: and some more here



  90. #90
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Bullit_cn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,892
    Sweet ;D
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  91. #91
    aka baycat
    Reputation: Ryan G.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    8,484
    Legend Info from Wrench Science:

    The Legend. Tony is still tinkering with the details so we can only give you the information we have. Which is somewhat limited. Ellsworth for 2007 has come out with a Titanium Truth. Which has a magnesium rocker, carbon seatstay and titanium front triangle called the TiRuth. They also have created a carbon fiber disc wheelset that is spectacular and crafted entirely at their facility. Everything else is spec'd with the highest craftsmanship. Carbon bar and stem, carbon disc brake levers, carbon crank... you get the idea. Nothing left to upgrade, the best in the industry and limited edition. Reserve yours today!

  92. #92
    mtbr member
    Reputation: zaxxon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    188

    Dare you?

    Quote Originally Posted by offtheedge
    Chad, I totally understand and agree with you about the new facility situation, but coming soon for a whole season just looks bad.

    My concern isn't with the Dare frame or lack there of, it's with the overall position the company has taken on the gravity sector of the market. The direction and the focus Ellsworth has taken clearly shows a bias towards XC and thatís fine. They should and I'm sure will pursue the most profitable and self gratifying sector of MTBing. That's good business, but in that decision they have to realize that by putting a low(er) priority on DH/FR they will sour many riders in those disciplines wanting to buy frame from a company that supports them. Ellsworth obviously doesn't have much interest in that scene other than selling Rogue frames. Come on, if you show up to Interfile with "cruisers" and no DH frame, enough said.


    Dave, first thank you for sticking your neck into this thread. It does look much better to know you or any employee of any company is willing to enter a forum......good or bad.

    As far as the Atlas/single pivot rears are concerned I just have to ask how this is difficult.
    There are a ton of companies putting out single pivot frames with acceptably stiff rear ends.
    Morewood, Orange, Santa Cruz, Ironhorse, to name just a few. Seems to me that wheel has been re-invented many times.


    I'm not bi*t*hing here either. I think Tony and his company should do whatever they feel is right, but I will be shopping bikes from a company that is more committed to my style of riding next year.
    Just so you know Tony's building an internal geared DH bike. He hasn't stopped working on DH bikes, I think he focused the Rogue on all purpose AM/FR riding and wanted to make a specific DH bike. Keep in mind most AM/FR riders aren't going as big as the bike is intended. The DH specific bike is becoming less of a market. Look at Slopestyle, they are running 6" bikes not 9" bikes. Therefore as a manufacturer you have to buck to some trends.

    Foes has a great line that they have been building off of DH bikes, they just came out with an air shocked XC bike. Its not following the foes mantra exactly, but if your complaining about Ellsworth entering the "lifestyle" riding style why not complain about Foes building XC bikes? Clearly they are searching for more marketshare as well.

    Ellsworth started with the Truth so they have the largest following in the XC/AM market. Not every manufacturer is a perfect fit for everyrider. You can't expect manufacturers to not test other markets, the industry is terribly small and tough so looking to capatilize in other markets is just part of business.
    -----------------------
    The world's only compatible bike builder
    wrenchscience

  93. #93
    Front Range Cyclist
    Reputation: juansevo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    931
    The 29ers look sweet!
    In the immortal words of Socrates..."I drank what?"

    Facebook.com/monstercrosser
    Twitter: @monstercrosser

  94. #94
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    226
    Hey, lets get this straight. Not that I care but perhaps I do.

    I owned 2 Dares and loved them both. I cannot figure that a company that I once so fiercely defended has made the obvious choice to cater to a market that is much more dumb, easy to coerce and market to. With only ONE bike in the inventory that is remotely FR/DH (Rogue) it is obvious where the direction is.

    BTW, for all interested, my buddy did eventually sell his Rogue to some sap in Montana. He got exactly what he paid. Guess what is on order? 2006 Fly. I wonder why.

    I have no issues with what a company does, but when a company pretends to be something it is not, then i take issue. Ellsworth is NOT a hard core company willing to stay the course despite any ups and downs. The Dare was one of the best bikes out there and to dispense with it, as it was designed, shows where the true motivations of E really are.

    It is not my fault the Truth hurts.

  95. #95
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    231
    Back again! When the f... did E claimed to be a HC company? Call your doctor...

  96. #96
    My cup runneth over
    Reputation: rmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    2,288

    $3K beach cruiser?

    I think you have to give E credit for taking risks. I am laughing here thinking about how the heck I lock a $3K bike up while I go body-surfing (very securely!). I also kind of hope this bike reflects a trend to take chances and try radical concepts (even if they flop). I also hope it's a reflection of E's ability to take risks as a result of having his own manufacturing facility.

    I like the idea that E has been so busy making and trashing interesting protoypes that they haven't hit on what they want for their next production delivery.

    As has been said before time will tell if they hit another home run like the 2001 Dare, but for sure they are trying to carve out a niche.

    Fun stuff.

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •