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  1. #1
    Team NFI
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    XC Marathon Championships

    July 27th at Sangers Farm.

    There is even a pump track near the barn for the non racers to play on.


    Ontario XCMarathon Championships J&J Kingston Trophy
    www.teamnfi.blogspot.com



    Depression...can eat a sack of manure and die.

  2. #2
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    I hope they mark the course a little better. Last year was awful. I was with about 10 racers at the front of the group who all missed a 90 turn by at least 100m. Later in the race I found myself circling a field with 3 others looking for the trail.

    I loved the low key nature of the event, but for a championship race, it was a bit of a mess. Very annoying to lose a race due to something outside of ones control.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnikcdn View Post
    I hope they mark the course a little better. Last year was awful. I was with about 10 racers at the front of the group who all missed a 90 turn by at least 100m. Later in the race I found myself circling a field with 3 others looking for the trail.

    I loved the low key nature of the event, but for a championship race, it was a bit of a mess. Very annoying to lose a race due to something outside of ones control.
    This brings up a question. Did you bring up this issue in the weeks after last years event with Dan?
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  4. #4
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    I spoke with Dan right after the event. It's not like he didn't know what happened. He didn't seem very concerned and I was left with the impression that "that's just the way things work around here".

    Fair enough... and fine for most events, but unless I hear of improvements, I'm not going to drive 3 hours for a half-assed Provincial Championship race.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnikcdn View Post
    I spoke with Dan right after the event. It's not like he didn't know what happened. He didn't seem very concerned and I was left with the impression that "that's just the way things work around here".

    Fair enough... and fine for most events, but unless I hear of improvements, I'm not going to drive 3 hours for a half-assed Provincial Championship race.
    So basically you spoke to the RD just after finishing about your issues and expected him to recall this while trying to do a million other things on the same day. Did you send an email? It sounds like you didn't as that would be the logical next step.

    Now, I would understand complaining about it being a crappy event if you returned this year and the marking was as bad as you claim it was in 2012. But then again not everyone is capable while racing of navigating trails that don't come with start to finish taping. But like anything some are better at that style of race while others are better at courses that require navigational skills at race pace.

    Reality is many that I have talked to who raced last year where able to navigate the course no problem. And these aren't locals.

    Mind you, there are racers who even if a course setter has taped every inch, barricaded all non course sections, arrowhead every inch, given cue cards, a GPS verbal navigation to every racer, and put up arrows ever 3 feet. Well, they will still complain they got lost.
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  6. #6
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    A new trail section was opened in the last week. Rumour is that Dan will be using it. And it is a whole new area.

    If anyone is coming up and wants a place to sleep over either the Friday or Saturday have space to take a couple of people at the house if anyone wants.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    So basically you spoke to the RD just after finishing about your issues and expected him to recall this while trying to do a million other things on the same day. Did you send an email? It sounds like you didn't as that would be the logical next step.
    Really?

    Dan knew the problem. I'm quite sure he's competent enough to remember and make this year's race better. It's not my responsibility however, because once was enough for me. Unless I hear he's made improvements, and I haven't, I'll continue to say what I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    Now, I would understand complaining about it being a crappy event if you returned this year and the marking was as bad as you claim it was in 2012. But then again not everyone is capable while racing of navigating trails that don't come with start to finish taping. But like anything some are better at that style of race while others are better at courses that require navigational skills at race pace.

    Reality is many that I have talked to who raced last year where able to navigate the course no problem. And these aren't locals.
    Stop putting words into my mouth. I did NOT say it was a crappy event. On the contrary, I had fun. The poolside podium was hilarious and there were lots of nice people around. Clearly I didn't meet you...

    Good for those people you spoke with. Perhaps they weren't racing for a podium? It was certainly my first time racing in the region. We should not be expected to have to search for the race course, especially during a championship.

    Are navigational skills now required to be a mountain bike racer? Should we bring a compass and trail map if we don't have GPS? And please, I have enough racing experience and knowledge to be able to comment fairly on the quality of a race experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    Mind you, there are racers who even if a course setter has taped every inch, barricaded all non course sections, arrowhead every inch, given cue cards, a GPS verbal navigation to every racer, and put up arrows ever 3 feet. Well, they will still complain they got lost.
    Seriously?

    My criticism is fair. I spoke to Dan at the time. I'm not going behind his back in public.

    Last year's course was inadequately marked for the standards required for a championship race. The results were affected.

    I hope he's made improvements. And I hope you have fun!

  8. #8
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    To be fair Enduramil, I got lost at a couple of xc marathon events in the past and I can understand sputnikcdn's frustrations. I also admit to have a terrible sense of direction so I take plenty of blame on myself too.

    It is the main reason I don't like "single loop" events. I would rather do 12-14 loops at an 8 hour race, than a single loop at a marathon.
    My rides:
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnikcdn View Post
    Really?

    Dan knew the problem. I'm quite sure he's competent enough to remember and make this year's race better. It's not my responsibility however, because once was enough for me. Unless I hear he's made improvements, and I haven't, I'll continue to say what I think.



    Stop putting words into my mouth. I did NOT say it was a crappy event. On the contrary, I had fun. The poolside podium was hilarious and there were lots of nice people around. Clearly I didn't meet you...

    Good for those people you spoke with. Perhaps they weren't racing for a podium? It was certainly my first time racing in the region. We should not be expected to have to search for the race course, especially during a championship.

    Are navigational skills now required to be a mountain bike racer? Should we bring a compass and trail map if we don't have GPS? And please, I have enough racing experience and knowledge to be able to comment fairly on the quality of a race experience.



    Seriously?

    My criticism is fair. I spoke to Dan at the time. I'm not going behind his back in public.

    Last year's course was inadequately marked for the standards required for a championship race. The results were affected.

    I hope he's made improvements. And I hope you have fun!
    Your welcome to your opinion and it sucks that you got lost. Reality is you had a bad day which can happen to all.

    What I find interesting is I have posted others of Dan's races and you where silent about this. If you are so concerned about this as you claim why silence till now? I ask as obviously if your race was badly marked as you suggest then they all must be.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by serious View Post
    To be fair Enduramil, I got lost at a couple of xc marathon events in the past and I can understand sputnikcdn's frustrations. I also admit to have a terrible sense of direction so I take plenty of blame on myself too.

    It is the main reason I don't like "single loop" events. I would rather do 12-14 loops at an 8 hour race, than a single loop at a marathon.
    See, this is the fun of racing. Some enjoy multi lap courses while others enjoy those big loop types.

    Though at least Dan hasn't offered a Barkley Marathon style race.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    What I find interesting is I have posted others of Dan's races and you where silent about this. If you are so concerned about this as you claim why silence till now? I ask as obviously if your race was badly marked as you suggest then they all must be.
    Provincial Championships.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnikcdn View Post
    Provincial Championships.
    Well, the reality is 99% successfully navigated the course and had a good day.

    Now onto more serious issues. What tires? Clip less or flats?
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  13. #13
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    I've never got lost on one of Dan's races (but then again Sputnikcdn rides at a higher velocity than me) but I agree that a course should be clearly enough marked that finding your way is not an issue. It's an XC mountainbike race, not orienteering. If I was in first and missed a poorly marked turn on the trail, I would be p!ssed too....
    Strava made me do it....

  14. #14
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    I've done three of these races and got lost at two of them while in the lead group. I'm considering this Kingston race. Hopefully things have improved in the couple years since I swore off this series. Big-loop races can be well-marked. Quebec is full of them.

  15. #15
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    Complain all you want. Dan is the only RD who has stepped out of the comfort zone of the Toronto centric mtb race scene and actually wants to bring races to Eastern Ontario.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    Complain all you want. Dan is the only RD who has stepped out of the comfort zone of the Toronto centric mtb race scene and actually wants to bring races to Eastern Ontario.
    Though you're not completely correct on this, I get the sentiment and I'm also glad to see more races happening outside the GTA. I'll give the race a try and now that you've given me the okay to complain I will most certainly do so if it's plagued by easily preventable problems. On the other hand, if the race runs smoothly I'll be happy to sing its praises. So there you go.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    Complain all you want. Dan is the only RD who has stepped out of the comfort zone of the Toronto centric mtb race scene and actually wants to bring races to Eastern Ontario.
    Dan is providing a service that people are paying for. If people don't feel that service is up to the standard they expect for what they are paying, they have every right to question it.

    I don't get the impression people are complaining, rather stating that at times the events may not run as smooth as they expect/desire. I've seen no one be malicious, nor given what I've heard from people/experienced are they being unreasonable in their documentation of what occurs. It seems like people end up off course. It seems people don't like that. It seems like people will question going if there is the potential to get off track. Pretty simple.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    Complain all you want. Dan is the only RD who has stepped out of the comfort zone of the Toronto centric mtb race scene and actually wants to bring races to Eastern Ontario.
    And reality is, just because you decided to become the only seafood monger in Saskatchewan doesn't mean people have to buy your lobster if it ain't fresh.

  19. #19
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    Dan puts on a great product that no one else provides (long courses; different locations; relaxed atmosphere). He's also running on a shoe string, and it sometimes shows. I know in a couple of cases, locals removed some trail markers; sometimes there hasn't been quite enough support. I understand both the loyalty/appreciation and the criticisms. I liked (most of) the races he put on. I hope others support him and help get even better.

  20. #20
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    Taking a page from the Guitar Ted race advice methodology...

    Deer flies and Mosquitos are bad in the area this year. Bring the appropriate repellant and pick the appropriate tire set up that will decrease chances of flats. If you don't the bugs can have at you.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    Taking a page from the Guitar Ted race advice methodology...

    Deer flies and Mosquitos are bad in the area this year. Bring the appropriate repellant and pick the appropriate tire set up that will decrease chances of flats. If you don't the bugs can have at you.
    But this won't prevent you from getting lost.
    My rides:
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by serious View Post
    But this won't prevent you from getting lost.
    Well...we are help you with that. With the appropriate pre start donation for the Beta as rock climbers call that. According to exchange rates, currency conversion, and checking with the Team NFI accounting team...the going rate is Highland Brewing.

    And one never gets lost. They are just simply relocating.
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  23. #23
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    I raced Dan's long sock classic at the Ganny in May. I have never seen a better marked big loop race (and I am including NUE series races), so many arrows. Big X's on single track to show if you happened to take a wrong turn. Even with that excellent marking, I ran into two guys that had somehow missed a turn and went way off course.

  24. #24
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    I should point something out about the venue.Kingston government is very unfriendly to mountain bikes. There is zilch for trails to race on that is on any form of public or conservation authority trails. There is no Albion or King.

    All the trails and double track used is on private land. Land either owned by Kyle Sangers dad aka Sangers Silo's or area that over long term relationship building with his neighbours. And it has taken a long time to build access to what Dan will have access to on the 27th.

    And the weekly Wed Night Ride, learned from Trail Chief Rob that more access is in the works.
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  25. #25
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    Teaser pic's brought to you by.....



    Hmm...corn field in the race?


    Gravel grind section with sand traps mixed in?


    Crick crossing?
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