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  1. #1
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    Winter riders. Need some advice.

    Canada, help a brother out.
    This is going to be my first winter where I'm planning on hitting trails quite a bit on my MTB.
    I know nothing of winter gear and so far have a few questions.

    1. First my toes. Oh man my toes are bloody cold. I have clipless summer shoes that came with insulated insoles that I changed over to. This does nothing for the cold air ripping through the mesh top. I'm not wanting to change to a winter shoe mostly for cost and frequency of use reasons.

    I've noticed that there's shoe "toe" covers and full winter covers both for sale. Anyone have advice on either or what to look for?
    These didn't help much LOL.

    2. To save my ears from frostbite I simply pulled out my padding and put a toque on under my helmet. It sat a little high but worked. Is there a better way to cover up my ears?

    3. Snow clogged shoe cleats. Lots of smashing my shoes off the pedals to clear the snow. Any tips or is this the norm?

    4. My hydration hose keeps freezing up at the valve at -4 temps so I had to keep drinking every few min to keep er flowing. What do you do when it really gets cold?

    5. Anything I should be doing to my bike to prevent damage in the sub zero weather?

    6. How do the trails look in the middle of the winter? Is it worth it to order a set of cleated tires or will I be ok with my xc rubber?

    Other than those things I think so far the frozen ground is a blast to ride on. My temperature spikes early in the ride so I don't need to bundle up much and ride times are under 4hr so there's not much if any standing around.

    To anyone who looked at my links, Yes I do have my pants tucked into my socks and Yes those are mechanics gloves from work.

    Thanks
    GTA
    Ontario

  2. #2
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    1. You mention you plan on hitting the trails quite a bit, frequency of use shouldn't be a concern, so I would definitely consider winter boots over shoe covers. I find shoe covers get packed up with snow. The boots like Northwave Arctic and Shimano MW81 have been great for me. Waterproof and don't seem to transfer the cold through the cleat area as much. I'm sure there are several other brands that would work just as well.

    2. Balaclava

    3. Not really an issue with eggbeater pedals for me, and also it doesn't pack up quite as much with the winter cycling boots as compared to using shoe covers.

    4. Have had bad luck keeping the lines on a camelback flowing. I have found use of a bottle to be better in winter, and it doesn't freeze as easily if you drop a hammer gel or 2 into the water and shake it up.

    5. If you ride in salt/deicer on the roads commuting to the trails, clean that bike after your rides!

    6. I have found my summer tires grip surprisingly well in snow. Ice is a different story. You'll be better off especially later in winter with studded tires when trails get that inevitable ice layer from the thaw freeze cycle. Not something that you NEED to have though...

  3. #3
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    Some similar answers:

    1) Winter riding shoes, winter riding shoes. One of the best investments you can make. I use mine in the fall and spring as well, notably for cooler, wet rides. As said, any covers suck for MTB as they get jammed with snow and make it worse.

    This also brings us to 3). Sometimes clogging can be a pain (when it's close to freezing and the snow packs easily). I just deal with it as I much prefer to ride clipped in. However lots of people swap over to flats and a nice winter boot (look for ones for snowshoeing, etc). If you don't mind riding flats, this could be a good option.

    3) Head over to a bike shop or Mark's work warehouse or mec and get a skull cap.

    SKULL CAP WITH T-MAX HEAT | Mark's.com | Online Shopping for Casual Clothing, Footwear and More

    Then combine this with a buff (at MEC). You then have neck and head coverage that is lightweight and very modular.

    Google Image Result for http://www.powerkiteshop.com/images/productimages/clothing/largeimages/buff/bufftyphoonwaysto.jpg

    4) Stuff freezes below 0, it sucks and is problematic at 1 hour or greater. Best I've come up with is a camelback with a bottle inside. Your body temp will keep it thawed within the pack (generally). You can also use a thermos when its colder. Sucks that you have to stop, but thems the brakes.

    5) If it gets salty, wash it well. If you are only on trails, not to much, just keep it clean like summer and try not to let water just sit in all the nooks and crannies.

    6) Some places, like Hilton Falls do not permit studded tires. I don't think it's worth it unless you are riding somewhere that is consistently icy. If the trails are packed snow from biking/walking, for the most part they are texture enough, that even with freeze/thaw cycles, you can get enough grip.

    In my opinion, if you are going to ride a lot in the winter, invest is some descent layers for close to your skin (merino wool, socks, undershirt) and extremities (gloves, shoes and head gear). It makes it much better.

  4. #4
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    1) Duct tape the front of your shoes
    2) Headband or balaclava
    3) Use Time or flat pedals
    4) Fill your hydration pack with rum or vodka
    5) Ride your bike through clean snow before putting it away, lube the drivetrain after snow melts off
    6) It depends

    Note - Some of these suggestions are somewhat serious, others are not.

  5. #5
    sheep in FOX clothing
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    Shoe covers are never going to work in snow, unless you never, ever put a foot down, which is pretty unlikely. The cleat hole in the overboot gets instantly packed full of snow on contact, and you are clipping into nothing unless you pretty much take the shoe cover off and empty it.

    Thus, if the budget doesn't allow winter SPD shoes, you gotta go platform.


    Bar-mitts are weird and seem mildly hazardous, but I've found no other way to keep my hands warm and have enough dexterity to brake and shift.


    Most trails around city get pretty shiny from freeze-thaws. You can get studded tires, or just not ride them when they are like that. Some years that might be one or two days, some years it might be weeks on end.

  6. #6
    humber river advocate
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    peoples winter riding varies quite a bit. after doing it for over 20 years i've learned a few things. we used to make our own home brew fat tires bikes out of snow cat rims from alaska... anyway, this is what works for me. your millage may vary.

    -platforms and snowshoe boots/gators, light weight, warm, waterproof and my pedals never freeze into lumps of ice. plus it is a low dollar setup.
    -balaclava is a good option, comes in all different thickness and cheap
    -I just use insulated water bottles
    -your cables housing will crack and cheap plastic bits, otherwise if you ride in salt you will have a galvanic reaction and it is wise to coat all metal to metal contacts with a salt proof anti-seize compound.
    -tires depends where you ride, for example where I ride studded tires is a must (fat bike or regular bike). other places you can get by with standard xc tires. the general rule of thumb is try to find an area that see's foot, bike, or snowshoe traffic. then again it also depends on the winter. I like riding on frozen rivers, swamps and ox bows, though this is not for the inexperienced. have fun and stay warm...












    Quote Originally Posted by chuckeieio View Post
    Canada, help a brother out.
    This is going to be my first winter where I'm planning on hitting trails quite a bit on my MTB.
    I know nothing of winter gear and so far have a few questions.

    1. First my toes. Oh man my toes are bloody cold. I have clipless summer shoes that came with insulated insoles that I changed over to. This does nothing for the cold air ripping through the mesh top. I'm not wanting to change to a winter shoe mostly for cost and frequency of use reasons.

    I've noticed that there's shoe "toe" covers and full winter covers both for sale. Anyone have advice on either or what to look for?
    These didn't help much LOL.

    2. To save my ears from frostbite I simply pulled out my padding and put a toque on under my helmet. It sat a little high but worked. Is there a better way to cover up my ears?

    3. Snow clogged shoe cleats. Lots of smashing my shoes off the pedals to clear the snow. Any tips or is this the norm?

    4. My hydration hose keeps freezing up at the valve at -4 temps so I had to keep drinking every few min to keep er flowing. What do you do when it really gets cold?

    5. Anything I should be doing to my bike to prevent damage in the sub zero weather?

    6. How do the trails look in the middle of the winter? Is it worth it to order a set of cleated tires or will I be ok with my xc rubber?

    Other than those things I think so far the frozen ground is a blast to ride on. My temperature spikes early in the ride so I don't need to bundle up much and ride times are under 4hr so there's not much if any standing around.

    To anyone who looked at my links, Yes I do have my pants tucked into my socks and Yes those are mechanics gloves from work.

    Thanks
    Support TORBA
    Sunnyside Bike Park Working Group
    Albion Hills Conservation Area Master Plan Public Advisory Committee

  7. #7
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    You can spend a lot on winter gear, but like anything, there are some things you can save a buck on, and others that you cannot.

    The first thing I have to ask - do you do any other winter sports? Running? X country skiing? Snowboarding? If so, a lot of the equipment you have for that may work well for cycling, or alternately, you may find it easier to invest in new gear if you are going to use if for several sports/activities.

    Second piece of advice. You should dress so you are a little chilly as you start, because once you start riding, you will warm up real quick and get overheated. Then you will sweat. And the sweat will cool down your body core so you will get cold. Don't over-dress.

    As many have said, the first thing you should get is winter boots. They will make winter riding so much more affordable. Wearing ski socks under regular bike shoes is not that great because any gains from the thicker wool are offset by the fact that they will make your shoes tight and reduce circulation. Shoe covers are fine in a pinch but if your feet are warm and toasty, you will be able to stay out longer and more comfortably. If that is not in the budget, the best way to get out there and save a buck is to buy some cheap platforms and go ride in your Sorels etc. I got a great pair of winter shoes at MEC for $90 and that has turned mountainbiking into a four-season sport for me. It might be worth hitting the bike show in the spring so you are set for next year. If you go this route, get them perhaps half a size larger than your summer shoes, so you can put on a thicker pair of socks (Hot Chili ski socks are great) underneath.

    Having cold hands sucks too. I recommend mitts over gloves, and if you can afford it, lobster gloves. Again, if that is not in the budget, the mechanic's gloves you are wearing look fine. I used my snowboard mitts for yearrs.

    Another tip - layer, layer, layer. Layers of clothes trap air between them which warms up and keeps you warm. No harm in wearing two or even three jerseys one over the other. And cotton is the enemy. Cotton gets wet when you perspire, becomes saturated and chills your body. The next thing you should buy after the shoes is a decent base layer. Merino is nice, but spendy. Defeet makes something called the Un-D-Shirt which costs about $30, goes right next to the skin, and wicks away sweat. Also, if you have base layers for cold weather running, x-country skiing, downhill skiing and snowboarding etc, this will also work just as well as cycling-specific gear. I personally swear by Patagonia Capiline.

    Same with the headgear. For those really cold days, I have a ski-mask/balaclava combo which fits under my helmet quite nicely.

    Finally, your next priority should be a windproof yet breathable jacket. Not cheap, but you can use it in the spring, or in the rain, so it is justifiable as a three-season piece.

    On your legs, winter cycling tights are nice, but why not get a pair of those winter running/cycling pants they sell at MEC/running room - neoprene on the back, windproof nylon on the font, for around $90, and wear your bike shorts underneath.

    For the Camelback, by not wear it under your jacket, or wrap some insulating material around the drinking tube, as that is what freezes first.

    Re studded tires, I have never used them, and have never felt I needed them. Put the money into shoes and a good base layer instead.

    And if you are riding on the trail, salt should not be an issue. If anything, with frozen ground, there will be less mud, and less cleaning. If the trails are not frozen and are a sloppy mess, you probably should not be riding on them anyway.

    One last thing...shorter days = more riding at night. Lights are a must! Not only so that you can see, but also because you want others (who may not anticipate bikes on the trails in mid-February) to recognise you.

    And here's a suggestion - go to the thread on this forum titled "The Frostbike Winter Mountainbike Race". There is a video there of last year's race. Take a look at what people are wearing in that video - may give you a couple of additional ideas for how to dress for the elements.

    Good luck!
    Strava made me do it....

  8. #8
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    Surprised nobody mentioned vapour-barrier socks and chem-pack toe-heaters in the footwear section.
    I ride down to -10 C with standard SPD shoes-- Shimano M-162's, no less-- with no more than the following: Poly-pro sock liner, plastic bag/vapour barrier ( I'm re-using the bags that the newspaper comes in; I'd like to know of a source of something a little thicker/durable.), followed by a lightweight wool sock.
    All that then gets stuffed into the shoe, which has had it's "summer" insole swapped for those felt/foil-y "space-age-y" jobs, along with, finally, up to two pairs of chem-pack toe warmers, one in the toe box, under the toes, and , if it's really cold, one in the arch zone.
    The problem of clipless systems in cold weather, is that the cleat/mount, being metal, are mo-fo's of a heat-sink, just sucking the kilo-joules out of yer feets; combine that with my problem of sweaty feet, and all bets are off if my vapour barriers spring a leak. I have the same problems riding flats and Sorels.
    If only we could put that peace dividend to work, maybe we could come up with something like clipless heated pedals. That could also solve the snow-packed cleat pocket issue, yes?
    Speaking of which, I've remedied that problem by spraying the pocket with Pam cooking spray.

  9. #9
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    1) I use Pearl Izumi Barriers over the same shoes I use in the winter. They have worked well for me even when I've had to put a foot down. Alternatively I use flat pedals and winter boots.
    2) A Buff folded into itself (simple tube with double the thickness and half the length) is enough for most conditions, and I use a helmet cover to reduce air flow. After putting on the Buff I fold it up a little bit from the neck, so it forms around my ear lobes better.
    3) I've used Egg Beaters since 2006 and never had them clog in any conditions, ever. Snow, mud... you name it. Another option is flats.
    4) Two options here: after taking a sip give the mouthpiece a small blow to push water away from the hose: air doesn't freeze that easily. Or just wear the hydration bladder and hose underneath your jacket and put the hose inside after taking a sip. These are tricks I learned in a military exercise in northern Norway, so I'm willing to bet it'll work in any conditions. (I did have a neoprene tube cover but it only postpones the inevitable.)
    5) Avoid temperature changes: store it cold. Otherwise you'll get condensation inside the frame, bearings and so on. Also you might want to pack bearings with lighter grease, but it's not a huge issue.
    6) You need studs on ice, but on any other surface you don't need them. A lot of people ride their XC tires in the winter as well. If the snow isn't incredibly hard packed (closer to ice), XC tires are likely to roll and grip better than most studded tires. (Of course Schwalbe ISP's are the best of the best, but also costly.)

    Good riding to you from the Canada of Europe!

    Bonus tip: army mittens with a separate trigger finger are far more affordable than commercial brand lobster gloves. My index finger usually gets cold after riding for the first 10-15 minutes so I tuck it in with the rest of the fingers for a short while, then I'm good for the rest of the ride with the finger in its own space. (Probably circulation and such kicks in better at that point.)

  10. #10
    swm
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    Lots of good replies.
    Yes to winter cycling shoes, I tried the other solutions.
    Yes to eggbeaters.
    Yes to a booze mix in the camelbak, and wear it inside the jacket on really cold days.
    A warm pair of downhill ski gloves or something with hi-tech materials.
    No to studded tires (not needed for snow & the weight slows you down).
    The only thing I do to the bike is lower the tire pressure.
    I ride for a couple of hours in the temps near -20C.
    Everyone should try & find somewhere to ride in the winter, lotsa fun & softer landings!

  11. #11
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    I got a pair of MW80 winter SPDs a few years back and am very happy with them. I have waded through a freezing river and my feet stayed dry and warm. In the winter they will keep my feet warm four an hour or two, or 2-4 with a toe warmer pack. Toe warmer packs can be bought by the case super cheap in march-april and are good for the next year.

    My local trails have a few sections and a couple climbs that ice pretty heavily so studded tires made a huge difference for me. There's a couple climbs I can't walk up in the winter but I can ride up them with studs.

    Balaclavas are cheap and make a huge difference when it gets that cold.

    I spent $100 on some on sale ski gloves at MEC last year and my hands stay nice and warm for a couple hour ride while losing only a little dexterity to the thick chunkiness. Takes a few minutes to get used to.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckeieio View Post
    Canada, help a brother out.

    Thanks
    1 - toes, you can either go with platforms, or clipless - if clipless, a pair of winter cycling shoes are a good investment - and buy them a full size larger so that you can really add extra thick socks when it's really cold. Also those toe warmers you didn't have much luck with -- I use them when really cold and they make a difference. As others have said, the toe covers and full winter covers are no good once there is snow on the ground - but hey, they were great for me on Tuesday when it was -5c and very little snow.

    2- I use either cycling specific hats or headbands - they are thin and fit under helmets.

    3 - Flats can fix that problem, otherwise eggbeaters are really really good at shedding snow (I just wish they were a more durable pedal

    4 - I use 2 waterbottles - one in the cage on the bike, the other in the bike shirt back pocket - that keeps at least one bottle warm.

    5 - I never have issues with brake lines or any other parts* down to -10 to - 15 (just don't find it fun any colder than that)
    *shifting can be an issue in warmer snowy slushy conditions

    6 - Cleated tires - it really depends on where you are, and what the winter is like. In Durham forest and Greenwood we used the studded tires last winter and the one before, as there was very little snow for a while, mostly ice. Prior to that, I hadn't needed studded tires in likely 4 years. Once the snow is on the ground though, with a base, in my area we usually get by with a fatter tire at low pressure.

    Finally -- your photos look like they were taken at Durham forest, is that right?

  13. #13
    Lemmy Rules!
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    One last tip. I read somewhere that when it is cold, you lose up to 60% of your body heat through your head when it gets cold. So the hat, rather than a headband that keeps your ears warm is a must if you find yourself getting cold on rides.

    And by the same token, if you get over-heated on rides, maybe that headband is the way to go....experiment and see what works.
    Strava made me do it....

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unglued View Post
    One last tip. I read somewhere that when it is cold, you lose up to 60% of your body heat through your head when it gets cold. So the hat, rather than a headband that keeps your ears warm is a must if you find yourself getting cold on rides.

    And by the same token, if you get over-heated on rides, maybe that headband is the way to go....experiment and see what works.
    I always heard that 90% of heat loss is through the head. Turns out that's from an ancient study done by the military where every bit of the soldiers' bodies was covered with cozy jackets etc., but they weren't wearing toques. So, ya.

    Still, ears can get cold. When my eyebrows start getting cold, usually it's not a good riding day.

    All good advice. Eggbeaters really are good at shedding snow and ice. Snow riding skills add greatly to bike handling! Have fun!

  15. #15
    Evil Jr.
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    Gosh, I have nothing to add to this... and to think, it was only a few years ago when we taught BCD how to ride in the winter.
    Please enjoy seeing this terrible collection of me - something wonderful is about to happy.

  16. #16
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    I guess your gear will depend on how cold you want to ride. I go at it pretty regularly on a fat bike all winter in Eastern Ontario and also commute to work all year on the road. Zero degrees right on down to minus twenty... I basically dress like I'm going xc skiing and almost always carry a small backpack with some extra bits (dry headgear, gloves etc.) This is also a good place for a water bottle.

    If the temperature is below, say, minus five I wear a Giro snowboard helmet and goggles over a thin balaclava. This really, really helps. Especially the goggles.

    I also invested in a pair of 45N Wolvhammers last year. I hate to use the cliche but they are in fact "game changers." I also have a pair of cheap MEC Exustar winter shoes that are okay for commuting but nowhere near the warmth of the Wolvhammers. I use them with XTR pedals without issue in the snow.

  17. #17
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    Thank you all. I just finished reading through all your posts. I honestly didn't expect so much useful feedback. There's enough good information and ideas here to sticky this thread till the spring.

    After today I think I'm going to try my nukeproof flats and some boots when the snow comes and see how this winter treats the trails here before committing a pair of clipless.

    To be honest I was set on SPD shoes after reading a few posts here.
    I ordered a pair this morning and went to Glen Major to hit the trails. Out of 3 people I talked with on the trail (lots of down time after a ride ending whipeout) all of them told me the trails there are impossible on 2 wheels in 90% of the winter.

    Not knowing first hand myself what I'm in for, I realized (with the help of this thread) that I could test the waters this season with flats and a pair of hunting boots (both of which I have) and if I find that it's ride-able I can re-order the boots. Luckily the guys at Bay were understanding and gladly cancelled my order. The Louis Garneau LS 100 winter they sell are sweet boots for $200.
    Head over to a bike shop or Mark's work warehouse or mec and get a skull cap.
    This is a great idea. I use something similar in my hard hat if working outdoors. Nice and thin.

    Duct tape the front of your shoes
    this with a plastic bag had crossed my mind.

    Bar-mitts are weird and seem mildly hazardous, but I've found no other way to keep my hands warm and have enough dexterity to brake and shift.
    If the gloves aren't doing the job I might look into these.

    Most trails around city get pretty shiny from freeze-thaws.
    This is how the trails around here end up from hikers and dog walkers. Bikes are banned in the Rouge anyway. (a rant for another day)

    platforms and snowshoe boots
    Neat idea. If the trails are as bad as I'm told I might just take up snowshoeing anyway

    The Frostbike Winter Mountainbike Race
    That looks like a ton of fun.

    Avoid temperature changes: store it cold
    This hadn't crossed my mind and makes a lot of sense.

    Finally -- your photos look like they were taken at Durham forest, is that right?
    Yea. Went from Brock to DF that day. Bike Ride Profile | 5 forest run. near Uxbridge | Times and Records | Strava
    I rarely bring my camera so when I did I took a lot of pics that day. I love that place.

    I also invested in a pair of 45N Wolvhammers last year. I hate to use the cliche but they are in fact "game changers."
    I was looking at those. They are awesome.


    Thanks so much for all the ideas and feedback. There's loads of helpful info for everyone. Would make for a good sticky this winter.

    Also if you never got rep from me, I either ran out or thought your post just plain sucked. I'll get to everyone when it resets.
    GTA
    Ontario

  18. #18
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    Winter riders. Need some advice.

    Hands and feet limit me the most with winter riding. Costco sells hand and boot warmers by the box. They make a ride way more enjoyable in -25c.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  19. #19
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    ^ Thanks. Bought a box last week. $11 is a score for all those.
    Also I meant to mention that cosco has Merino base layers at the 2 I go to in Scarborough. I noticed they were recommended a few times in this thread so I bought a set. Think they were $20 each top and bottom.
    Winter riders. Need some advice.-dsc08813.jpg
    GTA
    Ontario

  20. #20
    Evil Jr.
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    You can't go wrong with Merino wool. I have tons of it (and I'm sensitive to lanolin) and I love it. If you see pieces in your size at a decent price, buy it!
    Please enjoy seeing this terrible collection of me - something wonderful is about to happy.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster View Post
    You can't go wrong with Merino wool. I have tons of it (and I'm sensitive to lanolin) and I love it. If you see pieces in your size at a decent price, buy it!
    +1!
    Strava made me do it....

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unglued View Post
    One last tip. I read somewhere that when it is cold, you lose up to 60% of your body heat through your head
    lawyers with big heads only. us common folks lose most heat elsewhere, can't exactly say where.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul Lumikko View Post
    1) I use Pearl Izumi Barriers over the same shoes I use in the winter. They have worked well for me even when I've had to put a foot down. Alternatively I use flat pedals and winter boots.
    2) A Buff folded into itself (simple tube with double the thickness and half the length) is enough for most conditions, and I use a helmet cover to reduce air flow. After putting on the Buff I fold it up a little bit from the neck, so it forms around my ear lobes better.
    3) I've used Egg Beaters since 2006 and never had them clog in any conditions, ever. Snow, mud... you name it. Another option is flats.
    4) Two options here: after taking a sip give the mouthpiece a small blow to push water away from the hose: air doesn't freeze that easily. Or just wear the hydration bladder and hose underneath your jacket and put the hose inside after taking a sip. These are tricks I learned in a military exercise in northern Norway, so I'm willing to bet it'll work in any conditions. (I did have a neoprene tube cover but it only postpones the inevitable.)
    5) Avoid temperature changes: store it cold. Otherwise you'll get condensation inside the frame, bearings and so on. Also you might want to pack bearings with lighter grease, but it's not a huge issue.
    6) You need studs on ice, but on any other surface you don't need them. A lot of people ride their XC tires in the winter as well. If the snow isn't incredibly hard packed (closer to ice), XC tires are likely to roll and grip better than most studded tires. (Of course Schwalbe ISP's are the best of the best, but also costly.)

    Good riding to you from the Canada of Europe!

    Bonus tip: army mittens with a separate trigger finger are far more affordable than commercial brand lobster gloves. My index finger usually gets cold after riding for the first 10-15 minutes so I tuck it in with the rest of the fingers for a short while, then I'm good for the rest of the ride with the finger in its own space. (Probably circulation and such kicks in better at that point.)
    hey Saul, you need a lot of Buff to cover your ears, no?
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  24. #24
    Lemmy Rules!
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    lawyers with big heads only. us common folks lose most heat elsewhere, can't exactly say where.
    If you are going to start making lawyer jokes, Oggster, I may be forced to start making Serbian jokes, and we both know that no good can come from that...
    Strava made me do it....

  25. #25
    sock puppet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unglued View Post
    If you are going to start making lawyer jokes, Oggster, I may be forced to start making Serbian jokes, and we both know that no good can come from that...
    Hey - I did not say you had a big head. But if you insist...

    Who is Serbian around here? Its been a long time sunce we had a healthy debate. Some still didnt come back from exile. Communism sucks.
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