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  1. #1
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    What is and What should be

    Riding in Ontario whats the deal ?

    I have been riding here in Ontario for 23 years and I still do not understand what the rules of land Access is all about ?

    there are Provincial lands / Municipal /and Federal.. Now aside from the actual conservation parks where we know whether or not cycling is allowed. what about the green belts such as Seaton the Rouge , Bronte, Humber, Credit, are we allowed to Ride these ? Do They not fall in the same Category as the Don ?
    I remember years ago where the Town had Hired security Guards to enforce no ridding at the Seaton Trail. When we put some resistance, they told us that this was a private company hired buy an undisclosed group to persuade riders from ridding the trail. It had nothing to do with the government in any level.
    Does anyone know the actual Rules ?

  2. #2
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    To call this topic complicated would be a giant understatement. We'd almost need a matrix in a sticky threat to sort it all out.

    If you dip your toe in the Copeland thread you can see how confusing things can be. A lot of the building is rogue. The Province owns the land but the Conservancy has stepped up to set the rules...
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  3. #3
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    It seems like at least one member on this forum is knowledgeable about every significant land manager in Ontario. Collating this information ought to be the business of something like the IMBA RLAC council, but if it isn't we should make a list; sticky thread would be good. And, despite over-use and occasional abuse of the term, each parcel of land that's interesting usually comes with a bunch of stake-holders in addition to the land manager, who should be mentioned as well.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay. View Post
    It seems like at least one member on this forum is knowledgeable about every significant land manager in Ontario. Collating this information ought to be the business of something like the IMBA RLAC council, but if it isn't we should make a list; sticky thread would be good. And, despite over-use and occasional abuse of the term, each parcel of land that's interesting usually comes with a bunch of stake-holders in addition to the land manager, who should be mentioned as well.
    If the collective of this forum would like to start posting up any known correlations between land managers and properties in this thread as Kay. suggests above, I can help to reorganize posts as a new sticky thread (if we get enough info to make it worthwhile).

  5. #5
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    Let us collect the Info needed, Because I think it is a good Idea. To me it is always better to get cyclist off the Roads and on to Trails ( for no other reason then Safety) I have lost 2 friends to Cars

  6. #6
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    Rouge Valley is now in transition to National Park. Maybe J Murray has some info from Parks Canada about this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    Rouge Valley is now in transition to National Park. Maybe J Murray has some info from Parks Canada about this.
    What does that mean to us riders ?
    about 15 years ago the rouge was a Mecca for mountain bike.. Now its like a ghost town.
    and what about Clairville are we allowed to ride there ??

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by the bob View Post
    Riding in Ontario whats the deal ?

    I have been riding here in Ontario for 23 years and I still do not understand what the rules of land Access is all about ?

    there are Provincial lands / Municipal /and Federal.. Now aside from the actual conservation parks where we know whether or not cycling is allowed. what about the green belts such as Seaton the Rouge , Bronte, Humber, Credit, are we allowed to Ride these ? Do They not fall in the same Category as the Don ?
    I remember years ago where the Town had Hired security Guards to enforce no ridding at the Seaton Trail. When we put some resistance, they told us that this was a private company hired buy an undisclosed group to persuade riders from ridding the trail. It had nothing to do with the government in any level.
    Does anyone know the actual Rules ?
    thus the importance of trail plans, it clears the the muddy waters...

    around the gta most of the land is controlled by the trca... though who controls what within the organization sometimes gets muddied. some areas might have a different way of doing things and operate independently. though they are still bound by the entities regulations/statues and other laws/procedures. input is often taken from committees that represent the communties stakeholders in a given watershed.

    TRCA: Jurisdiction and Participating Municipalities
    TRCA: Boards and Committees

    and some more info for the rest of ontario
    Conservation Ontario - Natural Champions
    Support TORBA
    Sunnyside Bike Park Working Group
    Albion Hills Conservation Area Master Plan Public Advisory Committee

  9. #9
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    Rouge is I think up in the air. J Murray of DMBA who sometimes posts was going to all the meetings in the last year. Word was at the time the land managers where wanting to let mountain bikers in officially. Last meeting he was at we got thrown under the bus. But doesn't mean much as those people are no longer really in charge. It will be up to Parks Canada to decide this.

    And Parks Canada has been doing stuff over the last 2 years in regards to mountain biking in national parks. Shirk who posts here I think knows more on that as out west is where those efforts to date have been occurring.

  10. #10
    humber river advocate
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    you can be thrown under the bus at anytime. but lets keep the focus on eastern canada... mtbers have been weak on the lobbying front and have paid dearly for it. for example how many of you know the name of the top person within the trca that oversee's trail development? have any of you met the board of directors? have any of you joined committees that move in these circles? it is very important to get out there and be seen and heard.


    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    Rouge is I think up in the air. J Murray of DMBA who sometimes posts was going to all the meetings in the last year. Word was at the time the land managers where wanting to let mountain bikers in officially. Last meeting he was at we got thrown under the bus. But doesn't mean much as those people are no longer really in charge. It will be up to Parks Canada to decide this.

    And Parks Canada has been doing stuff over the last 2 years in regards to mountain biking in national parks. Shirk who posts here I think knows more on that as out west is where those efforts to date have been occurring.
    Support TORBA
    Sunnyside Bike Park Working Group
    Albion Hills Conservation Area Master Plan Public Advisory Committee

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    for example how many of you know the name of the top person within the trca that oversee's trail development? have any of you met the board of directors? have any of you joined committees that move in these circles? it is very important to get out there and be seen and heard.
    I agree completely.

    Just don't forget that Eastern Canada doesn't begin and end with the TRCA.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    you can be thrown under the bus at anytime. but lets keep the focus on eastern canada... mtbers have been weak on the lobbying front and have paid dearly for it. for example how many of you know the name of the top person within the trca that oversee's trail development? have any of you met the board of directors? have any of you joined committees that move in these circles? it is very important to get out there and be seen and heard.
    Funny how you toss aside Parks Canada issue. All stuff to date they are doing has been out west in developing their plan. This will effect elsewhere in Canada including the Rouge or any other national park in Ontario.

    Next thing you missed... I said that we got thrown under the bus by the previouys managers. But that is no longer relevant as Parks Canada is now the group that the riders have to develop a relationship with.

    Next, you are aware that there are more riding areas other then the GTA or TRCA right? Oh, wait unless it occurs in tthe GTA and within 100km's of said black hole it doesn't exist.

    All tthis crapola does not engage me at all. It makes me less wanting to be engaged and not give a crapola. No wonder all the smart one's leave.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster View Post
    Just don't forget that Eastern Canada doesn't begin and end with the TRCA.
    *cough* *cough*

    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    and some more info for the rest of ontario
    Conservation Ontario - Natural Champions
    It would be cool if there's even some people lurking around who can share some info right over to the maritimes.

  14. #14
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    Back on topic.

    In regards to the land access and such. Interesting editorial in the recent issue of Mountain Bike Action.

    Trails,

    Kingston- nothing official. Unless you want to shell out $125 to Kingston MTB. The rest is a no man's land at Collins Bay.

  15. #15
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    Brockville's Brock Tel or Black and Decker trails made the news. Issues with sharing the trails with 4x4's. Turns out it's private land. While some suggested that they should officially organize the consensus seems to be it will all blow over and like the other thread on here.. " Stay offa my trails" type mentality.

    Just like what happened in Kingston earlier this year.

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    who does Kelso and Albion fall under ?
    I mean don't get me wrong ?? I live 10 minutes from Albion and 20 from Kelso. This is not for my benifit but it just erks me that a bunch of local dog walkers have more right then a cyclist. lets face it all the years that I have ridden all over ontario. I have yet to meet one cyclist that did not respect the land and was careless on the trails. Kelso and albion are as clean and as pristine as the day I first steeped a foot on them some 23 years ago. Yet all those years the Horses took their toll on the rouge.
    Lets Face it mountain biking is an Adult sport. And as adults we pay our Taxes, and should have as much right as any other outdoor activity such as bird watching.
    I am a nature photographer as well and I know for a fact one nature photographer can cause more stress on wildlife as 20 mountain bikers.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by the bob View Post
    who does Kelso and Albion fall under ?
    Now you're getting to the meat of it. Kelso belongs to the HRCA and Albion belongs to the TRCA. Puslinch belongs to the GRCA...
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  18. #18
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    Ok lets get every single mountain bike club, Organization, personal , future mountain bikers , wives , grandams and grandpas, neighbours and pets and have a day organized to ride to Queens Park and put this to bed once and for all. If you are allowed to walk it you should be allowed to Ride it.

    There is our slogan .....If you can walk it I can ride it. Mountain-bikers Unite .

  19. #19
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    Unite the Clans.... Secret meeting

  20. #20
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    Rouge is a mess. The only trail work has been near the zoo- it's the nature paths off the old Beare Dump road. No one is doing any work.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by the bob View Post
    Ok lets get every single mountain bike club, Organization, personal , future mountain bikers , wives , grandams and grandpas, neighbours and pets and have a day organized to ride to Queens Park and put this to bed once and for all. If you are allowed to walk it you should be allowed to Ride it.

    There is our slogan .....If you can walk it I can ride it. Mountain-bikers Unite .
    If only it were that easy. Conservation Authorities, for example, are only very vaguely under the control of the Province. They're *almost* autonomous.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster View Post
    If only it were that easy. Conservation Authorities, for example, are only very vaguely under the control of the Province. They're *almost* autonomous.
    Ok with all seriousness How could this be ? If they are paid by a government agency then they must fall under some jurisdiction.
    Like I said in the past I have told Seaton where to go when they tried to stop us. And I have told the people at Rouge . the same now unless things have changed Drastically. In the last 10 years then I am unaware and forgive my ignorance..
    What about Ravenshoe ?? why is that working so well ? the hikers and riders get along just fine I have never scene or heard anything negative there ?

  23. #23
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    Parks Canada opening up trails to mtb isn't just a western Canada thing.

    Park finally updated and set guidelines trails. Now that there are new guidelines each individual park can look further into expanding their mtb trail offerings.

    More here - Parks Canada releases National Activity Guidelines for mountain biking | International Mountain Bike Association Canada

  24. #24
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    Can't we Have a secret meeting anyhow ? It sounds Fun

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by the bob View Post
    Ok with all seriousness How could this be ? If they are paid by a government agency then they must fall under some jurisdiction.
    Conservation Authorities only get a small part of the their funding from the Provincial government and most of that is earmarked for flood control and in that capacity, they are 100% responsible to the government. Everything else is a bit of mixed bag.

    I can't remember who "runs" Ravenshoe. IIRC, it's a "tract" so it might belong to the Municipality up there.

    Like I said, this stuff is complex.
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