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  1. #1
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    Want to buy in Canada, but forced towards the US?

    I'm looking for a decently-priced set of Hayes V6 rotors, but Canadian prices are terrible - $45 each. I can get them online for US$25, or CND$28 with the favourable exchange rate. Sure you have to factor in shipping, but it is a fixed cost so if I order several items the overall cost is low.

    Any suggestions? Are there Canadian sources that sell at competitive prices?

    Anyone in the Toronto area that would like to combine an order to save on shipping costs?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisAG
    I'm looking for a decently-priced set of Hayes V6 rotors, but Canadian prices are terrible - $45 each. I can get them online for US$25, or CND$28 with the favourable exchange rate. Sure you have to factor in shipping, but it is a fixed cost so if I order several items the overall cost is low.

    Any suggestions? Are there Canadian sources that sell at competitive prices?

    Anyone in the Toronto area that would like to combine an order to save on shipping costs?
    Check out torontocycles.com for rotors.

  3. #3
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    I would suggest buying online, then starting another thread griping about the duty and brokerage when the tally comes out to greater than $45 per rotor.

    Signed: The guy you called yesterday and busted his balls on price

  4. #4
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    the real problem you possess in this is that you apparently you have not built a relationship with your LBS. Your relationship with the LBS will gaurantee you damn good pricing...I still get 15% off at a LBS that i haven't bought a bike from in 6 years...i only go there for consumables from time to time...as my real LBS is not as local. But worth the drive for damn good pricing.

  5. #5
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    I shop locally for most stuff, but...

    Yes, and you were a pleasant person to deal with. I understand that you guys have overhead, but the price wasn't great. I'm willing to meet halfway, say $35 per rotor, but you didn't seem interested in negotiating (another Canadian retailer is charging $45, so it wasn't a 'discount,' unless you are referring to Hayes inflated MSRP).

    I understand the competition brick and mortar stores such as yours face from online retailers, and have given a lot of business to locals for bikes, forks, and accessories (multiple stores, since a single store doesn't carry all brands I'm interested in).

    I find local retailers to offer fair prices on many items (especially end-of-season stuff), but for a replacement item like a brake rotor, the prices can be steep, forcing me to look elsewhere.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by veteran_youth
    I would suggest buying online, then starting another thread griping about the duty and brokerage when the tally comes out to greater than $45 per rotor.

    Signed: The guy you called yesterday and busted his balls on price
    Best reply I've seen this summer, freakin hilarious

  7. #7
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    'fair' price is a relative term.

    to the consumer that means 'what i can get elsewhere'
    to the shop that means a 'sensible margin based on costs'.

    if you don't like the cost of certain products in Canada TELL THE MANUFACTURER.
    ask them to provide North American SRP's, cut out middle men and multi-level distributors allowing your LBS to buy direct...

    a level playing field for all best serves the consumer and the dealer.
    as it stands Canada is just a giant geographic fart that manufacturers simply wipe clean and offer to the likes of Lambert or Norco...
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by HubbaMan
    Best reply I've seen this summer, freakin hilarious
    Yeah, he has a flair on here, got me good... very polite on the phone though

    I realize this is a sensitive issue, online is an OPTION that has every right to be put on the table. I prefer the face-to-face transactions anyway, and will probably do so again with this. Cheers.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    '
    if you don't like the cost of certain products in Canada TELL THE MANUFACTURER.
    ask them to provide North American SRP's, cut out middle men and multi-level distributors allowing your LBS to buy direct...
    That became clear when the Canadian dollar was at par, and yet prices were still high relative to the US. Manufacturers blamed increased costs of doing business in Canada, but their claims seemed a little exaggerated.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisAG
    Yeah, he has a flair on here, got me good... very polite on the phone though

    I realize this is a sensitive issue, online is an OPTION that has every right to be put on the table. I prefer the face-to-face transactions anyway, and will probably do so again with this. Cheers.
    I have built a relationship with my LBS, and I just tell them straight up that I'm going to buy a part online. They understand they can't compete price wise, and it doesn't bother them that I do.

    I still spend a lot of money there in the end in servicing, consumable parts, and whatever parts I can justify the spend the extra money on.

    I say buy your rotors online, get it shipped vis USPS. The post office charges $8 for handling fees, and the WORST "duty" you get hit on is 13%, which is our sales tax.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisAG
    That became clear when the Canadian dollar was at par, and yet prices were still high relative to the US. Manufacturers blamed increased costs of doing business in Canada, but their claims seemed a little exaggerated.
    The difference is within the distribution network. the US simply do 10 times the business as Canada.

    Just buy online and no worry about it

  12. #12
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    dito...

    outstanding response...

    I am not saying that we must buy everything from LBS, but we HAVE TO SUPPORT them so that they can stay in business... There are instances when one HAS TO GO TO THE LBS for help which online retailers can not offer... for these instances - we have to support them so that they are still there when we need them...

    good job Andrew...



    Quote Originally Posted by HubbaMan
    Best reply I've seen this summer, freakin hilarious

  13. #13
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    nope, not exaggerated at all

    in many instances ie: lets say Shimano: Shimano Japan uses Shimano USA as a distributor for their products for the whole North America... In the USA retailers can get their stuff directly from Shimano USA and in Canada - they have to get it from OGC who is "Canadian distributor" and gets their stuff NOT FROM JAPAN but from Shimano USA at marked up price... By the time the product hits the street - few middle men have added so much markup that the shop don't have a choice but to set the price so high in order to make any profit... The example may not be totally accurate name wise, but the mechanism is just like that...

    Noggs is right, it is not the retailers - it is the distribution network that is screwed up and they should receive our grief, including the manufacturer who sets up this network...

    My rule of thumb is that everything that is less than $100 - I buy from the LBS and everything over $100 - if within 10-15% of the LBS price - I stay with the LBS...

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisAG
    That became clear when the Canadian dollar was at par, and yet prices were still high relative to the US. Manufacturers blamed increased costs of doing business in Canada, but their claims seemed a little exaggerated.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    Noggs is right, it is not the retailers - it is the distribution network that is screwed up and they should receive our grief, including the manufacturer who sets up this network...
    Good point, looks like Canadian retailers and consumers get the shaft... though I would have hoped that in this era of free trade etc. that the retailers would have a level playing field vis a vis their US counterparts.

  15. #15
    NormalNorm
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    I believe the online dealers in the US, make there profit from volume and not "mark up".

    What I cant understand is a 30% between two bike stores in the same area. For me, I usually deal with one store that gives me a fair price for most items. If I think its way overpriced, I go online.
    Last edited by norm; 07-31-2009 at 07:30 AM.

  16. #16
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    hypothetically speaking:

    25us/28cdn/rotor
    shipping USPS (if offered) probably 15-20 (17cdn) no brokerage - just taxes.
    shipping UPS (run away!!!) probably same BUT brokerage is 29 plus.
    duty 5.60cdn (9-10%)
    taxes (a wash either way)
    78.60$ Cdn - via USPS
    90.00$ Cdn - pickup

    11.40$ for no wait, no shipping, no hassle instant gratification.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    hypothetically speaking:

    25us/28cdn/rotor
    shipping USPS (if offered) probably 15-20 (17cdn) no brokerage - just taxes.
    shipping UPS (run away!!!) probably same BUT brokerage is 29 plus.
    duty 5.60cdn (9-10%)
    taxes (a wash either way)
    78.60$ Cdn - via USPS
    90.00$ Cdn - pickup

    11.40$ for no wait, no shipping, no hassle instant gratification.

    Sorry your math doesn't work out, and the fees presented isn't accurate in my experience.

    25 US per rotor X 2 = 50
    20 US for shipping

    70US ~= 80 CAD

    USPS/Canada Post will charge you $8 for brokerage fee, so you're looking at $88.

    Then regular sales tax will be applied, and you'll pay 13% for your online purchase ($80), or store purchase ($90). I have NEVER been collected duty on any parts I bought, including big items like forks.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by macming
    Sorry your math doesn't work out, and the fees presented isn't accurate in my experience.

    70US ~= 80 CAD
    i think the point is really the same.

    and if i owe someone 1.40...well...your grammar is bad...nah nah.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    hypothetically speaking:

    25us/28cdn/rotor
    shipping USPS (if offered) probably 15-20 (17cdn) no brokerage - just taxes.
    shipping UPS (run away!!!) probably same BUT brokerage is 29 plus.
    duty 5.60cdn (9-10%)
    taxes (a wash either way)
    78.60$ Cdn - via USPS
    90.00$ Cdn - pickup

    11.40$ for no wait, no shipping, no hassle instant gratification.
    All this from a feller who sells a Misfit(Fe) for 875US$ and 1050CDN$!!! I think 1050 Cdn is now $966US! Way to sock it to us Loyalists, Peter.

    Then tantalizes the public, especially, again, Loyalists, with that spectatcular orange finish, just days after Orangeman's day(still a stat in Newfoundland). Then only offers the F'n frame in black!

    Peter, you are a terrible despicable tease and should only show your face around here after these injustices to Canadians are fixed!

    As Lance would say, "I'd give my left nut for that orange misfit".

  20. #20
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    wait!

    let me get some popcorn...

    ok, noggs - your turn. I am ready.

    Where did Circlip disappear?

    Quote Originally Posted by Biggie
    All this from a feller who sells a Misfit(Fe) for 875US$ and 1050CDN$!!! I think 1050 Cdn is now $966US! Way to sock it to us Loyalists, Peter.

    Then tantalizes the public, especially, again, Loyalists, with that spectatcular orange finish, just days after Orangeman's day(still a stat in Newfoundland). Then only offers the F'n frame in black!

    Peter, you are a terrible despicable tease and should only show your face around here after these injustices to Canadians are fixed!

    As Lance would say, "I'd give my left nut for that orange misfit".

  21. #21
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    I always support my LBS. I get 15-20% off. But sometimes I can get great deals elsewhere and I do. I spent over 6 grand at my LBS this year. So when they are selling at cateye computer for $90 canadian and i can find it online for $35 US I don't feel bad going for it. Or if a competing store (that I'm not a big fan of) down the road has a 50% boxing day sale on trainers i don't feel too bad spending $150 instead of $240 (with my discount).

    I think it's important to support your local store. But sometimes you see a killer deal online and i don't see anything wrong with that. I still support my LBS but sometimes money is tight and I need to look out for me too. I'm about 90% positive the money i saved on that cateye computer went right into a new set of tires that I bought from my LBS. So whatever.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisAG
    Yeah, he has a flair on here, got me good... very polite on the phone though

    I realize this is a sensitive issue, online is an OPTION that has every right to be put on the table. I prefer the face-to-face transactions anyway, and will probably do so again with this. Cheers.
    It sure is a tricky area, and really, everyone needs to decide for themselves what they are prepared to pay for something. I admit that I swing both ways, online and LBS, it comes down to the item in question.

    But thanks for the thread, sure is entertaining!

  23. #23
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    I got distracted up there but to get back on topic most of my bike purchases are done at stores, but the bulk of my parts purchases are from US online retailers. The only online purchase I made from Canada was from Peter.

    I spend roughly $4,000/yr spread between three local LBS' in Hamilton and if that is not enough for either of them I can narrow down that list. Seriously, I lose no sleep over spending 1,000 /year between Jenson, Pricepoint and CRC when I know my LBS', EACH, get almost the same.

    Oddly, enough skateboarding was exactly the same 20 years ago. I remember I'd order stuff from Cali cheaper than I could get stuff local in Far Eastern Canada. I guess the size of our market prohibits warehouse style online retailers. That and the distributor system seems wonky.

  24. #24
    No. Just No.
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    Where did Circlip disappear?
    I'm doing just fine here under my rock, thank you very much. Besides, Biggie is fending for himself just fine. Looked all tongue-in-cheek from Biggie anyhow, but more seriously that seems like a reasonable spread between USD/CAD from Peety Weety. When you've got some huge differences after exchange-adjusted prices then I think there's every reason to try to locate the source of the discrepancy such as with the distributor system coming under the microscope in this thread. Otherwise, some minor difference is only reasonable as the retailer/distributor (Misfit direct, in this case) has to set pricing based on some kind of assumption, and can't chase exchange rates up and down every week which would confuse the crap out of LBS retailers and customers alike, and make business very awkward.

    Besides, how can you place a price tag on the value-added that so many Canadian customers receive from having local access to The Man himself, not to mention the long shadow cast by his usual shenanigans?

  25. #25
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    well,

    had to do a head count and noticed that you were absent for unusually long period of time. This place simply would not be the same without you - that seems to be the consensus... Well, kinda, anyway...

    Seems that Biggie calmed down as well... we can go back to our regular programming...

    Can't wait to see the next batch of posts dealing with the problem of wearing the mask during the foreplay...




    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    I'm doing just fine here under my rock, thank you very much. Besides, Biggie is fending for himself just fine. Looked all tongue-in-cheek from Biggie anyhow, but more seriously that seems like a reasonable spread between USD/CAD from Peety Weety. When you've got some huge differences after exchange-adjusted prices then I think there's every reason to try to locate the source of the discrepancy such as with the distributor system coming under the microscope in this thread. Otherwise, some minor difference is only reasonable as the retailer/distributor (Misfit direct, in this case) has to set pricing based on some kind of assumption, and can't chase exchange rates up and down every week which would confuse the crap out of LBS retailers and customers alike, and make business very awkward.

    Besides, how can you place a price tag on the value-added that so many Canadian customers receive from having local access to The Man himself, not to mention the long shadow cast by his usual shenanigans?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    Seems that Biggie calmed down as well... we can go back to our regular programming...
    I think Peter "Banned" me. He's got a "No Loitering" sign up on PsycleStore. I guess he doesn't want frequent visitors picking up on his Viet Name war era exchange rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    Can't wait to see the next batch of posts dealing with the problem of wearing the mask during the foreplay...
    I haven't got baited in to that thread yet; my wife already thinks I waste too much time on here.

  27. #27
    No. Just No.
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    had to do a head count and noticed that you were absent for unusually long period of time. This place simply would not be the same without you - that seems to be the consensus... Well, kinda, anyway...
    I dunno Oggie. Much as I like a good old internet dustup, I really don't know what to do with threads where the main focus is on the subjective critique of someone's body type or appearance, regardless of the merits (or lack thereof) of the original discussion topic.

    Perhaps you'll give some consideration toward steering yourself back a bit closer to the "high road" on this issue going forward?

    With CTS 2.0 on the horizon now you can be sure I'll be engaging in some pot-stirring before long. Once again I'm looking forward to spending a bit of quality time on the trails and in the banquet halls with the Onterrible gang. Make a mental note to round me up to hang out with a bit during the event this year, instead of only when everyone is peeling out of the parking lot on their journey home.

  28. #28
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    I buy from Jenson for most of my stuff... duty, taxes, and any 'brokerage' fees are all upfront when shipping to Canada. Whatever you see on the invoice is exactly what you will pay. I would buy from the LBS but unfortunately they aren't knowledgeable enough for certain things (I got sold the wrong parts a couple of times, and told the wrong advice on other things) so buying online is usually an easy decision.

    I will say though that Cycle Solutions in Toronto has some pretty good pricing and good staff... too bad they aren't local for me.

  29. #29
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    point well taken...

    I dragged myself down to the same level, trying to keep this board reasonably sane... I failed to realize that my efforts were in vain, as the intent was to create just that... But mud slinging is no more for me. Ignore feature is working just well...

    On the same topic, luckily, there are way more good people on this thread, those that we meet and have fun on the trails all the time. It is time to start the good old trash talking and take the "high road" when dealing with the less lucky ones, amongst us...

    I was trying to find you last year at CTS during the race, but you were always ahead of me during the day and going to sleep too soon - like all other skinnies... I had to make sure that Chico did not have to transport any full bottles of beer between the sites, together with my crew. This time around, I will try to hang out with you, even if it is for the first 12 minutes of each stage.

    I hope this will meet with your approval, Sir.



    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    I dunno Oggie. Much as I like a good old internet dustup, I really don't know what to do with threads where the main focus is on the subjective critique of someone's body type or appearance, regardless of the merits (or lack thereof) of the original discussion topic.

    Perhaps you'll give some consideration toward steering yourself back a bit closer to the "high road" on this issue going forward?

    With CTS 2.0 on the horizon now you can be sure I'll be engaging in some pot-stirring before long. Once again I'm looking forward to spending a bit of quality time on the trails and in the banquet halls with the Onterrible gang. Make a mental note to round me up to hang out with a bit during the event this year, instead of only when everyone is peeling out of the parking lot on their journey home.

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