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  1. #1
    Ms. Monster
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    PSA: How to hold a group ride and not get sued

    Lots of people participate in group rides, ranging from formal training rides with a team to casual get-togethers with friends. No one wants to be sued, but as the casual get-togethers turn into something bigger, there is always the risk that someone will get injured, and you, the ostensible organiser, will get the blame - if not from the individual, then from their insurance company.

    So - how do you organise a group ride (on mtbr, facebook or elsewhere) and not run the risk of losing your house? I did some research. I was starting to get concerned as our Tour de Buttertart and Dundas Monstercross rides (no longer our rides, due to fitness and toddler-time issues) got ridiculously popular.

    1. Run it as a formal Club ride. This means that all participants must be paid and insured members of the club, and that the club must inform the OCA at least one week in advance that there will be a club "training ride".

    But what if non-club members want to participate? There are a few options.

    2. Run it as a formal Club ride (as above), but allow participants who are members of other clubs/teams and are insured by the OCA to purchase an Associate membership for a small fee. This is what the Hamilton Cycling Club does for its events. Issue - non-insured riders can still not participate.

    3. Run it as a Try-the-Club event. This means non-members who are not insured by the OCA have to sign a waiver and have their deets recorded. The ride must be registered with the OCA and the non-members may only participate in one such ride per year.

    4. Get a local shop to "run" the ride and register it under their insurance. They will typically have waivers and are set up for non club members. This is what they did for the Hallowe'en Big Azz Night Ride.

    5. Incorporate a company (I just learned of this option second-hand from a talk given by a lawyer to OCA race organisers). This apparently costs about $200. The company has no assets, so if someone sues, the business just goes bankrupt. It keeps your personal assets completely separate. It is important to stress in all correspondence / publicity that the ride is organised by the company, not by you as an individual (this goes for club rides too). Beyond the initial effort of setting up the company, there is no additional effort required; anyone can attend your event and no waivers are required.

    Edited to add: the directors of such a company could become liable, meaning they'd have to take out D&O insurance and demonstrate that it is a properly run company with a risk management plan etc. Thanks to Unglued (above)for pointing out some of the risks that remain by following option 5.

    So. Do you organise rides? Do you feel at risk? Discuss!
    Last edited by Nerdgirl; 03-03-2014 at 10:33 AM.

  2. #2
    Team NFI
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    Don't forget that not every club who organizes a group ride or event will be members of the OCA. Some will be covered like MTB Kingston through IMBA Canada or whoever else they use.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
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    I'm intrigued by point number five. So you're saying that being incorporated basically trumps everything else and there's no need to mess around with waivers etc. for non-club riders on club rides?

    Our club is struggling with how to manage this right now. We don't want to exclude non-club pals from rides but we also want to be covered. We are incorporated.

    I guess the actual riders wouldn't have OCA insurance for themselves, but it would protect against someone (like a motorist, pedestrian) suing the group.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
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    Thank you Nerdgirl for taking the time to research and post this up.

    Currently being named the 'President' of a non-incorporated club, having organized many public rides, not to mention recently seeing a person fracture a vertebrae while out on a ride who is now off work for 6 months, it makes you think hard about your liability when you step into a position of leadership.

    (As an FYI, the fractured vertebrae was not on a ride I organized. I wouldn't say it was organized at all, it turned out to be a pretty impromptu meeting of various groups of people riding at Hilton).

  5. #5
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlanB View Post
    I'm intrigued by point number five. So you're saying that being incorporated basically trumps everything else and there's no need to mess around with waivers etc. for non-club riders on club rides?

    Our club is struggling with how to manage this right now. We don't want to exclude non-club pals from rides but we also want to be covered. We are incorporated.

    I guess the actual riders wouldn't have OCA insurance for themselves, but it would protect against someone (like a motorist, pedestrian) suing the group.
    If I'm following correctly, I think point 5 is best for an individual organizing a ride. Like if we come on here and post for a group ride. I don't think you would want to have any affiliation to a shop or the OCA as they could be named on a potential lawsuit. They would ultimately have something to lose.

  6. #6
    Evil Jr.
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    Just one other thing: if your club is incorporated (and it should be), make sure you get proper director's insurance.
    Please enjoy seeing this terrible collection of me - something wonderful is about to happy.

  7. #7
    Ms. Monster
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    CptSydor has it exactly correct. The reason that incorporating a company just to organise rides is worthwhile is because the company has no assets. Your incorporated club does protect you as an individual. However, if your incorporated club runs a ride that includes non-insured individuals and someone gets hurt, then:
    a) your insurance company will not cover any damages, and
    b) the club could lose all assets and have to declare bankrupcy. Bye bye club! Also, as an OCA-affiliated club, you could be putting the OCA at risk.

    I really wrote this post for CptSydor (I'd be willing to contribute $20 to incorporation expenses, btw), but thought the info would be useful to lots more people too.

    Quote Originally Posted by CptSydor View Post
    If I'm following correctly, I think point 5 is best for an individual organizing a ride. Like if we come on here and post for a group ride. I don't think you would want to have any affiliation to a shop or the OCA as they could be named on a potential lawsuit. They would ultimately have something to lose.

  8. #8
    Ms. Monster
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    Just to clarify (since you heard the lawyer and I didn't), would the "director" of an incorporated company also need director's insurance? How do you get that?

    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster View Post
    Just one other thing: if your club is incorporated (and it should be), make sure you get proper director's insurance.

  9. #9
    Team NFI
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    Speaking of lawyers, lawsuits, and outdoor activities. Don't know if anyone saw last months court decision.

    'Ski buddy' not liable for heli-ski death, court rules - British Columbia - CBC News

    While skiing related this could have had ramifications in the long term and not just in skiing.

  10. #10
    No. Just No.
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    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster View Post
    Just one other thing: if your club is incorporated (and it should be), make sure you get proper director's insurance.
    Maybe, maybe not. Before taking out any D&O (Director's and Officer's) coverage it's important to read the fine print to make sure the coverage is actually providing the benefit you think it's providing, so that you aren't spending your insurance dollars on the wrong coverage.

    D&O coverage - at least those I am familiar with through cycling PSOs - is strictly for coverage of legal expenses related to disputes between directors in the management of the corporation. The D&O does not serve any function for general liability protection, and in this capacity the same general liability that is part of the club's general coverage is also what covers the directors.

    Although I cannot say for certain, I am guessing that mainstream D&O (i.e. not specific to cycling clubs through a cycling PSOs policy) is similar.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
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    PSA: How to hold a group ride and not get sued

    Good thread Nerdgirl.
    But it really sux that it's necessary.
    I guess nobody's responsible for their own actions nowadays.


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  12. #12
    Team NFI
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash&bern View Post
    Good thread Nerdgirl.
    But it really sux that it's necessary.
    I guess nobody's responsible for their own actions nowadays.


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    I don't think it is always people not taking responsibility for their operators choices and errors. Unglued might be able to confirm this. But from what I have heard a lot of the lawsuits are in the end insurance companies suing the other company to essentially get back the money they had to pay out for injury.

  13. #13
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    PSA: How to hold a group ride and not get sued

    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    I don't think it is always people not taking responsibility for their operators choices and errors. Unglued might be able to confirm this. But from what I have heard a lot of the lawsuits are in the end insurance companies suing the other company to essentially get back the money they had to pay out for injury.
    Yes , I understand that. I've missed work due to injuries on my bike. I didn't go to my insurance and they didn't go after the trail builder/ride organizer.
    I understand the risks involved and don't think the trail builder or ride organizer should be held responsible .
    This is my opinion of course and I know many would disagree.


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  14. #14
    Team NFI
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash&bern View Post
    Yes , I understand that. I've missed work due to injuries on my bike. I didn't go to my insurance and they didn't go after the trail builder/ride organizer.
    I understand the risks involved and don't think the trail builder or ride organizer should be held responsible .
    This is my opinion of course and I know many would disagree.


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    Simplest solution....always have Unglued with every ride. If the mere mention of his name can make Specialized surrender.....

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    Speaking of lawyers, lawsuits, and outdoor activities. Don't know if anyone saw last months court decision.

    'Ski buddy' not liable for heli-ski death, court rules - British Columbia - CBC News

    While skiing related this could have had ramifications in the long term and not just in skiing.

    She got 18million and wanted more !

  16. #16
    No. Just No.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    But from what I have heard a lot of the lawsuits are in the end insurance companies suing the other company to essentially get back the money they had to pay out for injury.
    Right, but as C&B points out below someone had to make a claim and received a payout in the first place, for it to result in for one insurance company going after another.

    There are also some types of insurance that pay out income replacement as a matter of basic benefits, without needing to sue anyone, but I suspect the amounts involved there are generally small enough in the grand scheme of things that it's not worth it for the insurer to go after a 3rd party to recoup their cost of benefits paid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crash&bern View Post
    I didn't go to my insurance and they didn't go after the trail builder/ride organizer.

  17. #17
    Team NFI
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    Quote Originally Posted by croft View Post
    She got 18million and wanted more !
    Yep.

    Though the biggest discussion was what this would mean in the long term both for organizations and even individuals.

  18. #18
    Lemmy Rules!
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    I wouldn't recommend option no 5.

    Even though a corporation is a separate legal entity, it has to have directors and officers. If everyone on the ride knows the corporation was just incorporated as a shell to avoid liability for the individuals organizing the ride ( which I expect they will now, given that I think we all know which ride we are talking about here), anyone injured will sue those directors and officers personally too.

    There is a large body of jurisprudence which says that if an individual incorporates a shell corporation with no assets simply to avoid personal liability, a plaintiff will be permitted to pierce the corporate veil and the directors and officers would be found personally liable.

    The directors and officers would likely not be entitled to coverage under their home insurance and while D and O coverage is incredibly complex, the short answer is I doubt it would respond in a case where individuals simply incorporated a company as a shell to avoid personal liability.

    In case I was not clear enough above, I will say it again: Don't incorporate a company just to avoid liability or affiliating with a club. It won't work. If someone is seriously hurt and sues, at a minimum you will have to hire a lawyer to defend you personally and that could be tens of thousands of dollars.

    The real solution in my view is to run it as a club ride. Anyone who is a
    Member of any club is able to ride. And print off a bunch of OCA releases and make sure anyone who is not in a club signs one before you leave.

    Kim-if you or Marc or Cpt have any more questions about this, don't post them here. I cannot give legal advice to the whole world in a public forum, as my liability insurance will not cover me for it (irony!)-pm, email or call me and I will walk you through this in detail. Do not incorporate Tour de Buttertart Inc
    Last edited by Unglued; 03-01-2014 at 01:17 PM.
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  19. #19
    mtbr member
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    Personally, I would have no problem signing any kind of waivers. I am not in a club, but I always buy a UCI race license (through OCA) and I already signed a long list of waivers, so I think I would be ok.

    But I have no problem paying a reasonable fee for any temporary "membership" for the organized ride either.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by serious View Post
    Personally, I would have no problem signing any kind of waivers. I am not in a club, but I always buy a UCI race license (through OCA) and I already signed a long list of waivers, so I think I would be ok.

    But I have no problem paying a reasonable fee for any temporary "membership" for the organized ride either.
    Same here. Our local club organizes group rides and members sign a waiver once a year. Whenever a group ride is posted, there is a link to the waiver document in case there are guests/non members who want to join the ride.

  21. #21
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    PSA: How to hold a group ride and not get sued

    Here's some good reading that may be helpfull to you Nerdgirl & others.
    IMBA s " managing mountain biking "
    Topics include.
    Liability waivers & participant agreements.
    Hazardous recreational activity immunity.
    Negligence and standard of care
    Types of trail related law suits
    Risk management
    Defense against negligence
    Assumption of risk
    And so on.
    Hope this helps trail builders & people hosting rides.
    Cheers
    Bern.



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  22. #22
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    RE: PSA: How to hold a group ride and not get sued

    Quote Originally Posted by tntt View Post
    Same here. Our local club organizes group rides and members sign a waiver once a year. Whenever a group ride is posted, there is a link to the waiver document in case there are guests/non members who want to join the ride.
    And non-members joining the ride are required to sign a waiver before the ride. Having said that there are only 2 regular club sanctioned rides so the other non-club regular rides should also benefit from the tips in this thread.
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  23. #23
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    Wonder where those "group" rides like Toronto's donut ride fall? While that is more known but there are group rides that have existed for many years and still do. No organization other then meet at x coffee shop at this time and ride. Know of one in Markham and at least 2 others.

  24. #24
    No. Just No.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    Wonder where those "group" rides like Toronto's donut ride fall? While that is more known but there are group rides that have existed for many years and still do. No organization other then meet at x coffee shop at this time and ride. Know of one in Markham and at least 2 others.
    I may not be remembering correctly, but I seem to recall at least one incident from the Donut Ride which resulted in legal actions between participants. If it's not an organized and insured group ride through a club, and there's an incident a rider could be held personally liable. Or, even if a suit were unsuccessful the legal expenses of defending could be significant. If it was an insured ride the insurance company's lawyers would probably handle it from end to end on their dime to try to mitigate the amount they have to pay in damages (if any).

  25. #25
    humber river advocate
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    correct me if i am wrong... anybody can sue anybody in a civil lawsuit... insurance or no insurance... incorporation or not...

    For many people, the litigation process can be very intimidating. Having knowledge about the process can help to ease one’s fears.

    Below you will find an outline of the twelve key steps in the litigation process:

    Determining Jurisdiction
    Statement of Claim
    Statement of Defence and Counterclaim
    Reply and Defence to Counterclaim
    Discovery Plan
    Affidavit of Documents (Documentary Discovery)
    Examinations for Discovery
    Answering Undertakings and Motions to Compel Answers
    Motions
    Mandatory Mediation
    Set the Matter Down for Trial and Pretrial Conference
    Trial
    Step One: Determining Jurisdiction

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    Our litigation team members will be able to advise you in which jurisdiction the claim should be commenced, and whether to use the simplified procedure.

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    The parties can decide to proceed with a trial if a settlement is not reached. Often, the parties will decide to settle the action before it goes to trial because the legal fees involved are quite high and there is always a risk that the party could lose at trial. Also, with the costs consequences of settlement offers, parties may be concerned that they may be liable for paying the other party’s costs if they lose.

    During a trial, both parties present their evidence by calling witnesses. Depending on the issues in the litigation, expert evidence may also be required. At the end of the trial, the judge will make a decision that is binding on the parties. If a party is not satisfied with the judge’s decision, an appeal may be started in some circumstances.

    For actions started under the simplified procedure rules, a party may request a summary trial. Summary trials have strict time limitations on presentation of evidence. The parties present their evidence by affidavit and then the person who signed the affidavit may be cross-examined by the other party’s lawyer for a specified period of time. In a summary trial, a party’s oral argument is restricted as well. At the end of the summary trial, the judge issues his or her decision.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash&bern View Post
    So if you're part if a small bike group that can't afford to have a lawyer on standby or to be sued for everything you have , what's the answer ?
    Just don't build trails or host rides & events ?
    On the other hand. Those of us who are parents know that we have to write out what happens to our kids and such when something really bad happens. I am starting to wonder if we should be taking things a bit further and start considering what actions we want taken on our behalf when things go wrong. Both as instructions to family or our representative or in case we have no exact memory of what we want done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash&bern View Post
    So if you're part if a small bike group that can't afford to have a lawyer on standby or to be sued for everything you have , what's the answer ?
    Learn how to make bodies disappear.
    A rider who injures himself on a ride can't sue you if he was conveniently eaten by a bear.

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    PSA: How to hold a group ride and not get sued

    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    Learn how to make bodies disappear.
    A rider who injures himself on a ride can't sue you if he was conveniently eaten by a bear.
    Haha , nice !
    Maybe if you bury enough of them , you can build a nice pumptrack : )
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    RE: PSA: How to hold a group ride and not get sued

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Shaw View Post
    As for group rides with non members, not sure.
    Have non-members sign waivers for each ride they participate in.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    Learn how to make bodies disappear.
    A rider who injures himself on a ride can't sue you if he was conveniently eaten by a bear.
    You are aware of my current job....right?


    I follow the Don Rat rule..... he was found like this. We have no clue what happened.

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    Our Club has always required non-members taking part in club group rides to sign a waiver each time. Usually we allow non-members to come to one or two rides then request that they become a full club member.

    Interesting note, our insurance coverage is through IMBA Canada's Club Policy and we have asked several times now and were told road rides are also covered under this policy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    On the other hand. Those of us who are parents know that we have to write out what happens to our kids and such when something really bad happens. I am starting to wonder if we should be taking things a bit further and start considering what actions we want taken on our behalf when things go wrong. Both as instructions to family or our representative or in case we have no exact memory of what we want done.
    Just shortly after the boy was born, we got everything all tidied up professionally: wills, power of attorney and living will. A bit spendy but worth every penny.
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    Couple weeks ago I took a day off and went to the OCA club presidents meeting, forgetting that I'm a director of a club, the info i gathered that day was invaluable even just as a OCA or club member. If anyone gets the opportunity to go, GO.

    It was equally frightening and educational, the Insurance FAQ was great as the insurance company Holman had a rep there. And these guys Sport Law & Strategy Group ? had a lawyer do a session as well all about incorporation.

    Like unglued said its not that easy to just incorporate and wash your hands of it. Its just one step in building that "shield"

    and bottom line, period. full stop. If a non-OCA/UCI member is on a club ride waiver or not the insurance for everyone can be voided. (unless its a designated try a ride and names are pre-registered with the OCA)

    I think many folks have tried to find short cuts and loopholes to host group rides for free or really cheap, and still be insured. I think the OCA club system is probably the cheapest you'll find while still providing 5 million in insurance if you follow the guidelines.

    my two cents, its fun hosting impromtu informal rides but these days you have to look out for yourself. Its crappy but not worth losing your house over.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by swabag View Post
    and bottom line, period. full stop. If a non-OCA/UCI member is on a club ride waiver or not the insurance for everyone can be voided. (unless its a designated try a ride and names are pre-registered with the OCA)
    That was definitely the major eye-opener.

    You may think you're insured but if you're not following the explicit terms of your policy, you're not! POW!

    Insurance companies will look for any reason to void your insurance so don't make it easy for them!
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  35. #35
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    Does anyone know if the IMBA Canada Club Policy has ever been tested in court?

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    Quote Originally Posted by swabag View Post
    Any club found allowing non-members to participate (excluding club try-out days) will
    find their insurance coverage and affiliation status revoked.If a non-OCA/UCI member is on a club ride waiver or not the insurance for everyone can be voided. (unless its a designated try a ride and names are pre-registered with the OCA)
    Yes. You cannot just get non-members to sign waivers and think that protects you. From OCA's documents (top form):
    Any club found allowing non-members to participate (excluding club try-out days) will find their insurance coverage and affiliation status revoked.

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    Thanks, Unglued, for the valuable feedback.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unglued View Post
    Even though a corporation is a separate legal entity, it has to have directors and officers. If everyone on the ride knows the corporation was just incorporated as a shell to avoid liability for the individuals organizing the ride... anyone injured will sue those directors and officers personally too.

    There is a large body of jurisprudence which says that if an individual incorporates a shell corporation with no assets simply to avoid personal liability, a plaintiff will be permitted to pierce the corporate veil and the directors and officers would be found personally liable.
    This answers the question I had about the directors of this new "group ride company" needing D&O insurance - the answer is a very clear yes. In addition, my take home is that you need to be very serious about running group rides outside the club system if you want to go that route. It has been done successfully - Sacred Rides is a great example. But that IS a business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CptSydor View Post
    Currently being named the 'President' of a non-incorporated club, having organized many public rides, not to mention recently seeing a person fracture a vertebrae while out on a ride who is now off work for 6 months, it makes you think hard about your liability when you step into a position of leadership.
    Having read through this thread (and thought about it a lot), here is what I would recommend.
    1. Register the ride with the OCA as a Club Ride (for HCC - just talk to Garagemonster a good week ahead so the OCA gets its 48 hour notice). Note: this does not mean that the ride needs to be publicised or open to all club members.
    2. Ensure that every non-club member who attends is insured by the OCA and purchases an associate membership from HCC (good for one year).
    3. Do not allow non-OCA members to participate (this sucks a little, but is worth it).

    Thus, you are really getting your money's worth out of your membership - a pretty cheap way to CYA, really.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUBCRAWL View Post
    Our Club has always required non-members taking part in club group rides to sign a waiver each time. Usually we allow non-members to come to one or two rides then request that they become a full club member.

    Interesting note, our insurance coverage is through IMBA Canada's Club Policy and we have asked several times now and were told road rides are also covered under this policy.
    I have no idea if their coverage has ever been tested. It's a little frustrating to have these two semi-overlapping models co-existing, with the OCA specifically excluding clubs that are only IMBA-affiliated. It's a PITA, but I'd go and carefully read the fine print in the policy. I've heard too many horror stories of people being verbally assured they were covered by insurance, then finding later that they violated the fine print terms of the policy. There's not much info on the IMBA Canada website, but it does sound like they are generally less exclusive than the OCA insurance. The most limiting thing I could find was:
    Participants in events sanctioned by the Insured or their clubs must complete a waiver approved by the underwriters.
    And, of course, their general liability insurance is quite specific that it does not include any racing type events.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdgirl View Post
    I have no idea if their coverage has ever been tested. It's a little frustrating to have these two semi-overlapping models co-existing, with the OCA specifically excluding clubs that are only IMBA-affiliated. It's a PITA, but I'd go and carefully read the fine print in the policy. I've heard too many horror stories of people being verbally assured they were covered by insurance, then finding later that they violated the fine print terms of the policy. There's not much info on the IMBA Canada website, but it does sound like they are generally less exclusive than the OCA insurance. The most limiting thing I could find was:

    And, of course, their general liability insurance is quite specific that it does not include any racing type events.
    The IMBA Canada Policy details would be on OASIS website I believe.

    I think it was last year IMBA Canada started to offer Race Event Insurance through OASIS.

    We have used OASIS Insurance coverage since day one for all our race events even before IMBA Canada started offering it to affiliated clubs.
    The policies have always been through Lloyds of London with OASIS as the Broker/Agent.

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  41. #41
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    I should note: option 6: run your group ride through an IMBA-insured club and ensure that all riders (members or not) have signed a waiver.

    Many clubs (including ours) do not have this option, because OCA and IMBA insurance overlap, so to get both is prohibitively expensive. Our club (HCC) needs to be OCA-insured, not only because many of our members race OCA-sanctioned events, but we hold OCA-sanctioned events, including the Good Friday Road Race (an OCup). Additionally, many of our club events would have been classified as racing by Oasis, therefore not covered through the IMBA policy.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdgirl View Post
    I should note: option 6: run your group ride through an IMBA-insured club and ensure that all riders (members or not) have signed a waiver.

    Many clubs (including ours) do not have this option, because OCA and IMBA insurance overlap, so to get both is prohibitively expensive. Our club (HCC) needs to be OCA-insured, not only because many of our members race OCA-sanctioned events, but we hold OCA-sanctioned events, including the Good Friday Road Race (an OCup). Additionally, many of our club events would have been classified as racing by Oasis, therefore not covered through the IMBA policy.


    mmm yes and no Nerdgirl.

    Over the past several years the SHCC has affiliated our "Race Team" with the OCA and insurance coverage for those riders is through their OCA licence for their "speed event" type rides.
    This also allows those members holding a Licence to race O Cups, to have the Club listed on their membership and to race in Club kit legally as well.
    There is a yearly fee for this OCA Affiliation.
    Last edited by PUBCRAWL; 03-04-2014 at 11:25 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdgirl View Post
    I should note: option 6: run your group ride through an IMBA-insured club and ensure that all riders (members or not) have signed a waiver.

    Many clubs (including ours) do not have this option, because OCA and IMBA insurance overlap, so to get both is prohibitively expensive. Our club (HCC) needs to be OCA-insured, not only because many of our members race OCA-sanctioned events, but we hold OCA-sanctioned events, including the Good Friday Road Race (an OCup). Additionally, many of our club events would have been classified as racing by Oasis, therefore not covered through the IMBA policy.
    Other clubs might also be doing this, but I had a good chat on a long chairlift ride with a member of Squamish Mountain Bike | The Squamish Offroad Cycling Association : SORCA : Squamish Off-Road Cycling Association
    They have two types of insurance. One is just trail insurance, the other is for club racing. All under Oasis.
    So I think Oasis offers racing insurance in BC at least, do not know about Ontario.

    Nerdgirl does the landowner provide the trail building insurance at Christie?

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Shaw View Post
    Other clubs might also be doing this, but I had a good chat on a long chairlift ride with a member of Squamish Mountain Bike | The Squamish Offroad Cycling Association : SORCA : Squamish Off-Road Cycling Association
    They have two types of insurance. One is just trail insurance, the other is for club racing. All under Oasis.
    So I think Oasis offers racing insurance in BC at least, do not know about Ontario.
    ?
    What you left out is both SORCA and WORCA run races. But here is the catch.....you have to be a club member to race a WORCA or SORCA event. The races are held by the club for the members. There is no Cycling BC membership involved and if I recall not accepted.

    So simply...if you only want to run races for your club and members only then the OCA is not your option. If you want to allow others from other places to race then obviously you have to go the OCA route.

    Now here is the interesting part that I have mentioned before but will refresh again. Prior to running their own races WORCA had trouble drawing in members. Once they got creative with ideas and ran some races they noticed something...that being when they did more then trail work and meetings more people joined. Thanks to guys like Al Grey to name one of many....WORCA has become a force to be rekoned with.

    But let us face reality.. that will never happen here in Ontario. Much better to maintain the status quo.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Shaw View Post
    They have two types of insurance. One is just trail insurance, the other is for club racing. All under Oasis.
    So I think Oasis offers racing insurance in BC at least, do not know about Ontario.

    Nerdgirl does the landowner provide the trail building insurance at Christie?
    Yes, the landowner at Christie does assume liability for the trails. We are very lucky.

    Oasis does also (now) offer racing insurance (not just within the club; see PUBCRAWL's post). As posted previously, it's not an option for us to opt out of the OCA system; it mostly works very well for us. However, what we might eventually need is a way to insure the trailbuilding. I just sent a note to the OCA to see if that is a possibility. I certainly might have overlooked it on their website. It's not the easiest to navigate...

    And the SHCC model is a very interesting one. Thanks for sharing, PUBCRAWL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdgirl View Post
    And the SHCC model is a very interesting one. Thanks for sharing, PUBCRAWL.
    It was actually something that came about during a dinner meeting with Jim Crosscomb of the OCA where we discussed insurance programs in detail and options they offered. I think he was trying to have the SHCC come under the OCA Program but we had already aligned ourselves with IMBA Canada's Club program.

    The OCA Club affiliation was a suggestion by Jim and we have done so every year since.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    So simply...if you only want to run races for your club and members only then the OCA is not your option. If you want to allow others from other places to race then obviously you have to go the OCA route.

    But let us face reality.. that will never happen here in Ontario. Much better to maintain the status quo.

    We have been insuring our races for 6 years now through OASIS.
    Frostbike was our 10th race to date. The insurance premium per race has gotten much more affordable now that it has been under the IMBA Canada's Club Program. It offers small Clubs a chance to hold grass-roots type race events.

    I was told that this is (was) also the case for WNYMBA in Western New York.
    They use to insure their races through USA Cycling but switch to IMBA's race insurance coverage as well a few years ago.

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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdgirl View Post
    However, what we might eventually need is a way to insure the trailbuilding. I just sent a note to the OCA to see if that is a possibility. I certainly might have overlooked it on their website. It's not the easiest to navigate...

    And the SHCC model is a very interesting one. Thanks for sharing, PUBCRAWL.
    I'm interested to hear their response. I don't imagine that the OCA has had an opportunity to take trail building into account over the years.

    I'm assuming if you list your trailbuild day as a "club event" on the application it would work the same as rides. But you're going to have to brush up your risk management procedures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thedumbopinion View Post
    I'm interested to hear their response. I don't imagine that the OCA has had an opportunity to take trail building into account over the years.

    I'm assuming if you list your trailbuild day as a "club event" on the application it would work the same as rides. But you're going to have to brush up your risk management procedures.
    I think when it comes to talking about OCA one has to acknowledge one serious factor. This factor is the same for group Tri Ontario, Rowing, and basically every sport in the Sport Alliance building. That factor is theses sport governing bodies primary focus is.....high performance and competition. Because in reality that is what provincial sport governing bodies are for.....the development of racing at the provincial level which will then feed the national team level.

    And the reality is while it sounds good on the Internet to say OCA should do trail building. With IMBA Canada doing all that stuff the OCA is less inclined to be involved.

    And I still find it funny that bike racing insurance costs so much yet more people die per year at the age group level racing triathlon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    I'm assuming if you list your trailbuild day as a "club event" on the application it would work the same as rides.
    I'm fairly certain you'd find somewhere within the coverage documentation that club events need to be within the context of the activity of riding a bike. Assuming I have this right, common sense tells me the insurance company would have a pretty simple case to deny any claim for injury incurred during any event in which the primary activity isn't riding a bike.

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