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  1. #1
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    palgrave gets more fun...

    gnomes have been busy...





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  2. #2
    9 lives
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    Palgrave is looking good. There was a steady stream of riders and not a squirrel run in sight
    Last edited by cyclelicious; 11-05-2012 at 03:07 AM.
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  3. #3
    humber river advocate
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    yah squirrel runs... a bad trail building habit to break. nothing worse then having a trail right beside another trail going in the opposite direction. i often get asked is it a good idea to build a pump track as part of the trail system... my response is "what! are you nuts..." unless you have some dj culture in the area (which means you have to build dj's also) it's a lot of extra work and maintenance. much smarter to incorporate pbj sections into the trail which will build the skills of all riders and add a degree of progression. i've talked about these to several members of the ptba and they agree based on their extensive experience. There are a couple of other issue as aesthetics, design etc...
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  4. #4
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    looking good
    can hardly wait to ride it
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    yah squirrel runs... a bad trail building habit to break. nothing worse then having a trail right beside another trail going in the opposite direction. i often get asked is it a good idea to build a pump track as part of the trail system... my response is "what! are you nuts..." unless you have some dj culture in the area (which means you have to build dj's also) it's a lot of extra work and maintenance. much smarter to incorporate pbj sections into the trail which will build the skills of all riders and add a degree of progression. i've talked about these to several members of the ptba and they agree based on their extensive experience. There are a couple of other issue as aesthetics, design etc...
    Top Bridge Park, Parksville, BC.
    XC singletrack. (Chatrell Rd. is about 1km ) There are many spots where you can actually reach out and slap someone going in the opposite direction. I can't begin to tell you what's wrong with this system.

    palgrave gets more fun...-image1.jpg
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    yah squirrel runs... a bad trail building habit to break. nothing worse then having a trail right beside another trail going in the opposite direction.
    Why is that bad?

  7. #7
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    You work with what you have. Only way to get decent trail length in small sites.
    My favorite rides would all be "squirrel runs" - Puslinch Tract, Turkey Point, and Waterloo Hydro Cut.

  8. #8
    Evil Jr.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Ninja View Post
    Top Bridge Park, Parksville, BC.
    XC singletrack. (Chatrell Rd. is about 1km ) There are many spots where you can actually reach out and slap someone going in the opposite direction. I can't begin to tell you what's wrong with this system.
    Wow, that looks like a plate of spaghetti!
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  9. #9
    db9
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    I'm planning to got to Palgrave on Friday where bouts is this new section?

  10. #10
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    That looks great! excellent job by all who were there.
    thank you for your efforts!
    hope to ride there soon.
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  11. #11
    humber river advocate
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    Quote Originally Posted by db9 View Post
    SS
    I'm planning to got to Palgrave on Friday where bouts is this new section?
    south end center...
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jduffett View Post
    Why is that bad?
    -hard to make sustainable
    -promotes trail braiding
    -no buffer zones in the forest
    -does not meet mandates or fail to meet future mandates of naturalization
    -aesthetically conflicts with the outdoor experience
    -poor multi use design since it does not consider the use of the space as a restorative environment, etc...
    -limits use to a specific stakeholder
    -does not consider environmental psychology design principles

    a thing to consider is just because a trail was built like that does not automatically make it the correct way to build trails...
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  13. #13
    db9
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    south end center...
    I look forward to checking it out.

    Thanks to the Gomes the work is appreciated

  14. #14
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    In the case of Top Bridge in Parksville

    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    -hard to make sustainable
    -promotes trail braiding (Boy, does it ever!!!)
    -no buffer zones in the forest (Yes)
    -does not meet mandates or fail to meet future mandates of naturalization (N/A)
    -aesthetically conflicts with the outdoor experience (Yes to some extent.)
    -poor multi use design since it does not consider the use of the space as a restorative environment, etc... (Not multi use trails)
    -limits use to a specific stakeholder (Not multi use trails)
    -does not consider environmental psychology design principles (Yes again)

    a thing to consider is just because a trail was built like that does not automatically make it the correct way to build trails...
    Top Bridge was built over 25 years ago and it is still the only mountain bike specific trail system on public land on Vancouver Island (it's in a city park) and probably in BC. When they got the chance, the local club put in as much trail as they could fit. Bikes were outlawed everywhere else. It holds up well because it's all on solid rock. If you ask anybody involved if they would do it that way again, you'd get a resounding "No". Bikes are now allowed on all trails in all regional parks and most city parks in the area. The provincial parks are behind the times but there are a few open to bikes.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    -hard to make sustainable
    -promotes trail braiding
    -no buffer zones in the forest
    -does not meet mandates or fail to meet future mandates of naturalization
    -aesthetically conflicts with the outdoor experience
    -poor multi use design since it does not consider the use of the space as a restorative environment, etc...
    -limits use to a specific stakeholder
    -does not consider environmental psychology design principles

    a thing to consider is just because a trail was built like that does not automatically make it the correct way to build trails...
    Thanks.

    All of these are certainly valid to a certain degree, though I would argue there is a time and a place... I can certainly see the value in packing the trails in to a density such that you can maximize the trail in a limited area, so long as you can maintain enough buffer to prevent the braiding and short-cutting.

  16. #16
    humber river advocate
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    probably the most important thing is to be in sync with the mandates of the conservation authority or forestry department. a one time due diligence of a trail area does not mean that it will remain static based on that report. all areas come up for review after several years and that review (and resulting actions) is based on the policies of the controlling entity (these policies are not static). takes a bit of forward thinking to keep a trail area secure. one concept i push in committee meetings is that of legacy trails. this is actually common ground between between the mtbers/hikers and has opened dialogue between stakeholders on large projects such as nashville tract trail project . of course these trails must be multi use and have other characteristics which i touched in my previous post.

    for example:

    -heritage points of interests
    -conducive to naturalization
    -interconnectivity
    -educational
    -watershed or other environmental features
    -community economical interests
    -local agriculture opportunities (eat local)
    -community recreational opportunities
    -environmentally sensitive areas
    -surrounding development
    etc etc
    Last edited by singlesprocket; 11-06-2012 at 04:29 AM.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jduffett View Post
    Thanks.

    All of these are certainly valid to a certain degree, though I would argue there is a time and a place... I can certainly see the value in packing the trails in to a density such that you can maximize the trail in a limited area, so long as you can maintain enough buffer to prevent the braiding and short-cutting.
    it can work in some areas, but design will follow this trend...

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  18. #18
    Evil Jr.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jduffett View Post
    All of these are certainly valid to a certain degree, though I would argue there is a time and a place... I can certainly see the value in packing the trails in to a density such that you can maximize the trail in a limited area, so long as you can maintain enough buffer to prevent the braiding and short-cutting.
    It is especially tough to "rein in" the impulse to jam as much trail as possible in a limited space. In a spot like Christie Lake where we "only" have about 2 square kilometres to work with, we find that we sometimes need to take a step back, take a deep breath and really think about what makes the most sense.

    We really try to keep an absolute minimum of twenty feet between treads and then we only get that close if we're running out of options due to grade or obstacles.
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  19. #19
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    Was at Palgrave for the first time this past Sunday, was impressed with the couple trails I rode. Looking forward to go back and see some the improvements.

    Good job, the work is appreciated!

  20. #20
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    just got back from palgrave
    nice bit of work
    thanks SS and anyone else involved in the trail work
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  21. #21
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    Went again today - that is a great trail, it deserves an name if it doesn't have one. (just saw the numbered signs)

    And that jump is bigger than the photo shows.

  22. #22
    humber river advocate
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg_o View Post
    Went again today - that is a great trail, it deserves an name if it doesn't have one. (just saw the numbered signs)

    And that jump is bigger than the photo shows.
    glad you like, never thought about a name. feel free to name it. i like it when people come up with names and make a little bit of artwork at the entrance of the trail.
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  23. #23
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    attended another trail build in palgrave...

    testing out the flow...





    the work party celebrating a job well done...

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  24. #24
    Up, Up, and Away!
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    Nice!

    My son and I were out helping Joe and the gang in September. Too bad we missed this build. Great to see some features added. Look forward to checking the new stuff out!


  25. #25
    humber river advocate
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    some more pics from this weekend...

    the line gets cleaned up and shaped some more...



    showing some riders passing by that the feature can be easily rolled...

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  26. #26
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    Yep, nice work there...Rode it twice on the weekend. The new re-routes really make it a nice loop. Too bad it wasn't longer!
    A bad day on the bike is better than a good day doing anything else...

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  27. #27
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    Will happen, just takes time.
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  28. #28
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    Agreed...And you folks have done some great work in there!
    A bad day on the bike is better than a good day doing anything else...

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  29. #29
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    Rode this today, unreal - took palgrave from a workout trail to a fun trail with lots of flow

  30. #30
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    Palgrave has always had great flow. And funny enough it's not that different from Albion in that respect. Yet the folks doing work at Palgrave don't seem to agree that the folks building trails in Albion have clue what they are doing. A little perplexing but some great work in Palgrave!
    A bad day on the bike is better than a good day doing anything else...

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  31. #31
    humber river advocate
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbmeister View Post
    Palgrave has always had great flow. And funny enough it's not that different from Albion in that respect. Yet the folks doing work at Palgrave don't seem to agree that the folks building trails in Albion have clue what they are doing. A little perplexing but some great work in Palgrave!
    not really, that's something that is being fixed.

    i wouldn't call it perplexing... it can be boiled down to a simple interpretation of flow.

    -one camp interprets flow as pedaling more

    -the other camp interprets flow as pedaling less

    thus the flow trail concept (though some of us having been building/advocating for this type of trail for a long time)

    some more info here: Flow Country Overview | International Mountain Bicycling Association

    there's a lot of room for improvement and a need to create a diverse trail network for the community at large. perhaps it is time for one camp to listen to what the other camp to has to say and work cooperatively to build an awesome trail network?
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  32. #32
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    So, sitting here watching the rain, looking forward to the upcoming season got me curious - any changes to our beloved Palgrave in the works?
    ..now just tinker with our bikes and feed the cats. - oldbear52

  33. #33
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    is it rideable for april18/19 weekend ?
    If I wanted to objectify a women I'd do it on my terms not theirs.

  34. #34
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    there's still some wet areas, though people are on the trails. just don't widen the trails. if you have to, ride straight through the wet section.
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  35. #35
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    I was out on Thursday and rode it for the first time. Fun trail, and the features in the first few pics really enhance it.

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