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  1. #1
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    Ontario Sales Tax change

    I just spotted this on Canadian Cyclist

    Ontario Tax Exemption On Bicycles And Bicycle Helmets To Take Effect December 1

    not quite as good a deal as we get in BC with all bikes and bike parts PST exempt, but it's a start.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill
    I just spotted this on Canadian Cyclist

    Ontario Tax Exemption On Bicycles And Bicycle Helmets To Take Effect December 1

    not quite as good a deal as we get in BC with all bikes and bike parts PST exempt, but it's a start.
    I agree that it is a good thing. Hopefully it gets some more people out on bikes. I wish it were for bikes over $1000 though.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason74
    I agree that it is a good thing. Hopefully it gets some more people out on bikes. I wish it were for bikes over $1000 though.
    yep
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    It's not for bike parts either. Too bad.

  5. #5
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    Good news for me, as Im getting ready to buy my son his first "real" bike in the spring. Hopefully by then the US/CAN retail prices will be straightened out too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by prod
    Good news for me, as Im getting ready to buy my son his first "real" bike in the spring. Hopefully by then the US/CAN retail prices will be straightened out too.
    Don't count on the price differences being worked out. I am looking at a new bike in the spring. I talked to my LBS and the best price right now is 2550 on it. I can get it for 2100 US. Which right now is what 1950? I brought this up and he said the manufactures said they don't expect any changes in pricing this year. now they could be just saying that but it makes sense not to change prices mid year and wait until the new 2009 models come out. I want to support my LBS but if I can save 600 dollars I am going to get it in the US.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaikara
    I want to support my LBS but if I can save 600 dollars I am going to get it in the US.
    Exactly, and so will a lot of other people. Then the local retailers will suffer and will be forced to lower prices.

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    So, McGuinty is asking you to try commuting to work on a bicycle, in return for a $60 saving on a new bike. Meanwhile Harper, who meanly withheld his GST rebate from cyclists, has recently communicated to cities, "drop dead" or what I read on some newspaper headline the other day. Working at loggerheads. On a warm sunny day, bicycle commuting before the morning rush begins can be sublime, but the rest of the time it is hard work, dirty, dangerous, even scary on occasion. I wouldn't recommend it to any friends or family, not even for $60. Hello, my annual cost in flat tires is more than $60 (30-40 per year).

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    Quote Originally Posted by prod
    Exactly, and so will a lot of other people. Then the local retailers will suffer and will be forced to lower prices.
    It is not up to the local retailer. Prices are set by the manufacturer and I am pretty sure a 600 dollar reduction in price on a bike in a store would take it close to if not below their cost (i don't know much about retail bikes sales - anyone know what their margins are?) Unless the manufactures cut prices you are not going to see prices coming that close to the US prices. Retailers can drop the price but even if they drop the price 10-15 percent eating into their own margins you can still save an additional 10-20 percent by going to the US.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaikara
    It is not up to the local retailer. Prices are set by the manufacturer and I am pretty sure a 600 dollar reduction in price on a bike in a store would take it close to if not below their cost (i don't know much about retail bikes sales - anyone know what their margins are?) Unless the manufactures cut prices you are not going to see prices coming that close to the US prices. Retailers can drop the price but even if they drop the price 10-15 percent eating into their own margins you can still save an additional 10-20 percent by going to the US.
    In some cases, retail prices have gone UP! For example, the retail price of a Rocky Mountain Trailhead (a $1100ish hardtail) has jumped up $30. Some cheap norcos have gone up in price too. Take the norco katmandu ($450ish) for example, the only upgrade it got for 2008 was going from a freewheel to a cassette, and the price has gone up by over $20 as well.

    These examples are representative of the entire line of entry level hardtails from norco and rocky. Why the **** are our prices going up, when our dollar is so strong? Our retail prices should be closer to US retail prices, considering the value of our dollar. as kaikara is saying, you can go to the US, buy a bike, pay a lower price, plus have the advantage of a strong dollar, increasing your savings.
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    less than $1000?!?
    where is the sympathy for the people who are addicted to XTR, and the weight weenies.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by potato
    less than $1000?!?
    where is the sympathy for the people who are addicted to XTR, and the weight weenies.
    its great.

    obviously this is intended to get more people cycling. similar to most socialist type tax cuts it's designed to assist the have nots...this might even help them walk out of the confines of wallywart and into a real live bike shop.

    once brain washed they too will become addicted to unobtanium and the economies of scale will tip in all cyclists favor and there will be dancing in the singletrack.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkj__
    In some cases, retail prices have gone UP! For example, the retail price of a Rocky Mountain Trailhead (a $1100ish hardtail) has jumped up $30. Some cheap norcos have gone up in price too. Take the norco katmandu ($450ish) for example, the only upgrade it got for 2008 was going from a freewheel to a cassette, and the price has gone up by over $20 as well.

    These examples are representative of the entire line of entry level hardtails from norco and rocky. Why the **** are our prices going up, when our dollar is so strong? Our retail prices should be closer to US retail prices, considering the value of our dollar. as kaikara is saying, you can go to the US, buy a bike, pay a lower price, plus have the advantage of a strong dollar, increasing your savings.
    What really should be happening is the US prices should be going up. Their dollar is weak against all other currencies - Euro, Yen, etc. So if they are building these bikes in Asia it is costing more to have that done using the American dollar and thus the US pricing doesn't reflect that. It really doesn't matter to me though if I can save 600 bucks I will. I wasn't going to bike until the 2009s come out but at that kind of discount I can't resist grabbing a new one now.

  14. #14
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    Kaikara us correct. Unfortunately our dollar is not getting much stronger, the US is just getting much weaker. The bicycle trade in the world market is usually done in euros. So we will likely not see a price drop, but we should see a price increase in the US. Even for bike built in the states most materials still need to be brought in from overseas, so the price will eventually go up, it just takes time. Of coarse they will try to keep prices lower than ours to keep their market form tanking, 30% price increases don't go over too well.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocks'r'friends
    Kaikara us correct. Unfortunately our dollar is not getting much stronger, the US is just getting much weaker. The bicycle trade in the world market is usually done in euros. So we will likely not see a price drop, but we should see a price increase in the US. Even for bike built in the states most materials still need to be brought in from overseas, so the price will eventually go up, it just takes time. Of coarse they will try to keep prices lower than ours to keep their market form tanking, 30% price increases don't go over too well.
    you are correct about the CDN dollar and its recent rise to fame...it is limited to north american growth...we have gained a mere 4-5% against the euro versus 30 to the us.

    my experience with the primary exporting countries (taiwan/china) is that they use the yankee dollar as a basis for pricing and trade, this seems to hold true for much of their supply base and transportation as well. dont hold your breath for price increases south of the border anytime soon. my cost increases have been marginal and based totally on the increased cost of raw materials and transportation.

    there will be moderate to slight decreases coming down the pipe to CDN dealers (and consumers) as the distributors start to move out inventory purchased at previous dollar values...something purchased at 10$ US last spring was NOT at the current dollar rate so (obviously) it still costs more. of course it is very easy to get somewhat lazy too...not saying distributors are taking advantage...but a drastically lowered cost of goods can be very, cozy. REMEMBER its easy to LOWER prices, difficult as hell to INCREASE them...as no one believes it will stay this high many companies are playing it safe...

    disclaimer. i say all this as a small fish who buys and sells primarily in greebacks and never converts inventory to loonies (until sold). so yes, i can react to this change fairly quickly - and you know what? as fast as i drop i will raise it back up...i seem to remember laughing all the way to the checkout when the dollar tanked at like 60 cents...them stupid book learnin people were only gettin 20 cents on the dollar...so its gone both ways!
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaikara
    What really should be happening is the US prices should be going up. Their dollar is weak against all other currencies - Euro, Yen, etc. So if they are building these bikes in Asia it is costing more to have that done using the American dollar and thus the US pricing doesn't reflect that. It really doesn't matter to me though if I can save 600 bucks I will. I wasn't going to bike until the 2009s come out but at that kind of discount I can't resist grabbing a new one now.
    Ya, you're right, that does make sense.

    Regardless of future trends, it is a pretty good deal for us to be doing a little shopping in the US right now.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaikara
    It is not up to the local retailer. Prices are set by the manufacturer and I am pretty sure a 600 dollar reduction in price on a bike in a store would take it close to if not below their cost (i don't know much about retail bikes sales - anyone know what their margins are?) Unless the manufactures cut prices you are not going to see prices coming that close to the US prices. Retailers can drop the price but even if they drop the price 10-15 percent eating into their own margins you can still save an additional 10-20 percent by going to the US.
    Oh I realize that. The ones first to feel the pain will be local shops. Customers shopping the US for lower prices mean stores will be sitting on more inventory, not making money, perhaps even closing. I dont think they can lower prices enough to compete, but they have to lower them significantly to move bikes.
    I see the point that manufacturers reducing cost may not happen, more likely that american prices will increase over time. Until then, Im glad I dont work at a bike shop.

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    hey if the LBS wants to sell at retail, then so be it, shop somewhere else (ei: the States). The 600 difference could be negotiated down to something like 300 with the store making a bit of money and getting a customer who will return for parts etc. Retailers might need to give a little, which is not the case here in Sudbury. Ebay is my LBS for the moment.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by prod
    Oh I realize that. The ones first to feel the pain will be local shops. Customers shopping the US for lower prices mean stores will be sitting on more inventory, not making money, perhaps even closing. I dont think they can lower prices enough to compete, but they have to lower them significantly to move bikes.
    I see the point that manufacturers reducing cost may not happen, more likely that american prices will increase over time. Until then, Im glad I dont work at a bike shop.
    Be glad you don't work anywhere selling big ticket items like a car dealership. If the dollar stays strong for awhile and prices don't change more and more people will shop south of the border. In the end the manufacturer doesn't care because they still sell product. It is the retailers that get hurt especially the small independent ones.
    Last edited by kaikara; 11-13-2007 at 06:20 AM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by north_of_us
    hey if the LBS wants to sell at retail, then so be it, shop somewhere else (ei: the States). The 600 difference could be negotiated down to something like 300 with the store making a bit of money and getting a customer who will return for parts etc. Retailers might need to give a little, which is not the case here in Sudbury. Ebay is my LBS for the moment.
    It is easy to say to the retailer that they can sell cheaper but there are a number of factors they have to deal with. It is not about just selling the item but making enough money to cover costs and make a profit. There is no point of being in business if you are going to sell an item for cost or even at a margin that doesn't allow you to cover your overhead. Manufacturers should be protecting their retailers by selling them bikes at a cost that allows them make enough money to survive.

  21. #21
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    one day all but an handful of dealers will close.
    they will be the elite of the elite and when we need something (and we will) we will pay and pay dearly...

    in the end i think the dealers will survive, they will buy smarter, buy in larger volume and possibly buy direct...how can you compete with speed goat and the like when you buy your bb7's in singles???? so it is the distributors that will get hurt in the short term me thinks.

    be selective, be smart but remember, we could end up chasing down bike parts in gated compounds and then fighting off angry hordes of part thieves when we do dare hit the streets...remember the thunder dome...
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  22. #22
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    "Starting on December 1, 2007, the Ontario government will exempt bike helmets and other safety equipment from retail sales tax (RST)."

    I wonder if this will include higher end off-road worthy lights? Might be worth it to wait until December to buy the new lights.

  23. #23
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    Strait from the government site.

    Safety Equipment

    Safety equipment related to bicycles will also be exempt from RST during the period from December 1, 2007 to November 30, 2008. Exempt items include the following:

    * bicycle helmets
    * reflectors for bicycles
    * bicycle lights (including generators, battery operated lights)
    * bells and horns for bicycles
    * mirrors for bicycles.
    In the exclusions does not list a price cut off.

  24. #24
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    if you can wait for January before buying, you'll save 1 more % off the GST, as it drops to 5%
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  25. #25
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    wOOt, hope they get it figured out for the spring bike show, I could use new lights

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