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  1. #1
    Evil Jr.
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    The Official O-Cup #3/Canada Cup Hardwood Thread

    I know it's not until the 31st but I feel compelled to remind everyone that the last day for the entrance discount is Sunday. (Well, that and I can't rightfully participate in the Spring 8-Hour thread AND it's my turn to start one of these "Official" threads.)

    Who's in for yet another copy of Big Six in their musette?
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  2. #2
    Slick Rick
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    The course is open for pre-ride, I was there yesterday.

    Also, Hardwood rules in the middle of the day midweek, there was 1 other guy there riding.

  3. #3
    rad to the power of sick
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    Ill be there...

    Looking forward to a DRY fast race.
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  4. #4
    Misfit Psycles
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    i will be riding up...rain or shine or hail...
    i need to leave at 5am...lets hope for an early sunrise.
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  5. #5
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    Then there were 3 others riding yesterday, pretty crowded eh!
    Really nice course, it's got it all!!!. Fast first half then the climbs kick in. Some real nice nice technical treats. Some real tight trees in the new trails for those of us from the wide bar family, watch your pinkies!! Liked the 4 foot boulder hurdle (how strong is your front end?). No Boneshaker for the 9.30 race.

  6. #6
    Evil Jr.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunc
    No Boneshaker for the 9.30 race.
    Aw crap! Not even half-a-boneshaker like last year? How am I supposed to achieve one of my early season goals of cleaning it at the O-cup?
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  7. #7
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    No Boneshaker!!!

    I'm not a fan of this trend of making the sport categories easier. We already have less technical courses than many I've ridden on elsewhere.

    If newbies to the sport don't like the technical parts they can always get off and run the difficult part (that's what I did when I was a novice).

    I've already emailed the organizer at Hardwood to make my feelings known. I think he needs to hear this from more riders if we want to keep the sport category course intact.

  8. #8
    Misfit Psycles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supertrekkie
    I'm not a fan of this trend of making the sport categories easier.
    this is like hearing there is no santa claus...
    before we lynch the very kindly Glenn at Hardwood have we CONFIRMED via confirmation that BONESHAKER has been removed?
    it was there last year. and the year before...and so on.

    also...SPORT cat's race later (11:30), ergo, I assume their course WILL include that section...just an uniformed thought.
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  9. #9
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    when you came across the parking area flat/feed zone? the 9.30 and 8.30 turned up the hill first, the 11.30/1.30 climbed up by the little bridge and went up to boneshaker.
    The challenge and the crowd should be part of it. You can walk it if need be, but it is a buzz to go down it with the crowd watching. Like Albion and the Green Monster/Meenie, you got to feel the it. Never looked forward to it but sure missed it after it was gone.

  10. #10
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    Clarification:

    Pure OCup format:

    0830 beginner etc, races are always shorter and less technical.

    0930 and 1130 races are the sport catergories and the course is the same for both.

    1330 races aare expert/elite and often have an extra twist here and there, depending on race location.

    In a Canada Cup format:

    0930 races are ALL the sport categories (0930 and 1130 combined)

    1130 is Elite categories (they require their own race due to UCI rules)

    1345 Expert race categories

    I had email conversation with Glenn at Hardwood and he confirmed that the sport categories will not be doing the half boneshaker as in the past. From our communication I sensed that he could be swayed if he heard from enough sport riders who would like it to remain in the course. I understand that his motivation for taking it out was that it scared off potential newer riders.

    I understand the motivation for taking it out but I don't necessarily agree with it. All I'm saying is that I see a trend of making courses technically easier which I personally don't like. Novices can either run the difficult parts or ride in the beginner categories.

  11. #11
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    With or without Boneshaker, the Canada Cup course is considerably more technical than Mansfield and Albion. That is good enough for me.

    Having said that, I prefer to ride through Boneshaker, because I am a sucker for all the cheering from the crowds. For extra points I will even do upper Boneshaker. Lord knows I need the points.
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  12. #12
    Slick Rick
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    Wait, what is the boneshaker?

    I've been to HH a million times and am not familiar

  13. #13
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    The big rock garden at the front

    visible from the chalet.

  14. #14
    bi-winning
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supertrekkie
    Clarification:

    Pure OCup format:

    0830 beginner etc, races are always shorter and less technical.

    0930 and 1130 races are the sport catergories and the course is the same for both.

    1330 races aare expert/elite and often have an extra twist here and there, depending on race location.

    In a Canada Cup format:

    0930 races are ALL the sport categories (0930 and 1130 combined)

    1130 is Elite categories (they require their own race due to UCI rules)

    1345 Expert race categories

    I had email conversation with Glenn at Hardwood and he confirmed that the sport categories will not be doing the half boneshaker as in the past. From our communication I sensed that he could be swayed if he heard from enough sport riders who would like it to remain in the course. I understand that his motivation for taking it out was that it scared off potential newer riders.

    I understand the motivation for taking it out but I don't necessarily agree with it. All I'm saying is that I see a trend of making courses technically easier which I personally don't like. Novices can either run the difficult parts or ride in the beginner categories.

    First, thank you Garage Monster for the reminder about registration saving.

    Second; I much prefer racing at 11:30 vs. 9:30, especially after a long drive from Niagara. Oh well, Hardwood is fun.

    Third. Taking out the boneshaker for sport categories? W.T.*! They should add the whole d*** thing to the sport categories, not take away the half that we had. Is this their way of telling me to upgrade to expert or something?

    Ok, so it's just a short little section, and probably not worth getting real upset about, as the course is probably still pretty awesome, but I much prefer a technically challenging course.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  15. #15
    dirt roadie
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkj__
    Second; I much prefer racing at 11:30 vs. 9:30, especially after a long drive from Niagara.
    Long drive? I'm the one doing all the driving

  16. #16
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    I hope they don't remove boneshaker from the 9:30am races! Some of the courses seem so tame in terms of technical sections. Especially after watching some videos from the UCI of the world cup XC courses in other parts of the world. I agree with rkj about adding the whole thing, that would be really awesome. I had never ridden boneshaker until the first lap of the Canada Cup last year and managed to figure it out amidst a pack of other riders, so it cant be THAT sketchy.

    Looking forward to this race! I think with the revised start time for the SS category, the first lap will be a little less congested if the course is anything like last years. I recall the first lap being like a train through the singletrack.

  17. #17
    bi-winning
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    Quote Originally Posted by zedfoto
    Long drive? I'm the one doing all the driving
    Ok, long "car ride." Either way, it's going to be an early morning.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by nspace
    I had never ridden boneshaker until the first lap of the Canada Cup last year and managed to figure it out amidst a pack of other riders, so it cant be THAT sketch.
    Same here, my previous mtb experience consisted of riding around dundas valley and doing the albion and mansfield o-cups before I hit the boneshaker. It was a little bit of a shock seeing it, but riding it really wasnt so bad.

    I also dont understand the argument for taking it away from the sport racers: if its taken out to prevent turning away new riders, then take it away from the beginners. Correct me if I'm wrong, but sport is for riders with some racing experience so new riders would not be in that class unless they think very highly of their skill/endurance level. This would mean that a) they have enough skill/endurance from general riding and are fine over the boneshaker or b) itll be a wake-up call and they will realize they should be riding beginner instead of sport

  19. #19
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    This is my first year riding the 9:30 category.
    The bone shaker has been on my mind since last year when I decided I wanted to upgrade.

    I attempted it 3x last year in practice and failed miserably all times.
    However the more technical course is one of the reasons I upgraded, so whether I'm confident enough to ride it before the race or not, I think it should be on it.

    Otherwise its a off road race on trails?
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  20. #20
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    nspace: I think with the revised start time for the SS category, the first lap will be a little less congested if the course is anything like last years.

    What is the revised time? I agree that last year it was a mess.

    bbgobie: I attempted it 3x last year in practice and failed miserably all times.

    Practice it, but if you are in doubt just run it during the race. It may not be pretty, getting injured unnecesarly is less pretty.
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  21. #21
    Misfit Psycles
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbgobie
    I attempted it 3x last year in practice and failed miserably all times.
    EXACTLY my experience...BEFORE the C-cup a few years back...

    i went into that race replaying the disasters that were and lo when the crowd was screaming "go peter" "you are my hero peter" it just happened...i TOTALLY forgot what i was doing (despite the bodies everywhere) and i got it done.

    boneshaker doesn't make me so much as flinch anymore, rigid or otherwise.

    the downhill course at the ss worlds last summer was 10x worse...i also FAILED repeated attempts to clear it in 'practice'...then the big day...instead of cheering those monkies were pelting 'walkers' with beer cans and dousing fallen riders in various fluids.

    suffice it to say i destroyed that one too...all because i forgot i was on it...
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  22. #22
    rad to the power of sick
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    Got out to hardwood today, did 4 laps of the course.

    Typical hardwood fare.

    I did the boneshaker each time without crashing, but my chop, hack and skid style was anything but pretty.

    The rest is typical of the last few years with a few new turns here and there. Plenty of roots and line choices everywhere. Definitely an MTB'ers course.

    Now this is the one and only time you'll hear me say this, but a lil rain might do some good, as plenty of brake divots are beginning to form on some of the descents, and its plenty dusty.
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  23. #23
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    I was at Hardwood Saturday and also did 4 laps. They changed the course a little bit from last weekend, but still no Boneshaker for Sport class riders. For the last lap I decided to run through Boneshaker but the lower entry was completely tapped off. I entered at upper Boneshaker. Scary, but not as hard as one would imagine. Lower boneshaker is a little harder, I think.

    Anyway, I think the midweek rain will help, because the course is getting dry. But it is a great course with a nice combination of technical sections and hard climbs.
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  24. #24
    Hack Racer
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    http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/city/..._metric_e.html

    Mud tires for the race? It looks like a full week of rain before the race, and then some more rain for race day.

  25. #25
    Evil Jr.
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    Oh yay. After Tennessee, I've already ridden through enough mud for TWO seasons. Cripes!
    Please enjoy seeing this terrible collection of me - something wonderful is about to happy.

  26. #26
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    I might just race my singlespeed in Sport so that the clean-up is easier, this year is looking more and more like a carbon copy of last season

  27. #27
    Misfit Psycles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photograph
    I might just race my singlespeed in Sport so that the clean-up is easier, this year is looking more and more like a carbon copy of last season
    i'm sure that others (your competitors most likely) get the double entendre of your...

    race my singlespeed in Sport so that the clean-up is easier

    ...even if you didn't entendre it!
    if ever a case there be for premature promotion, i think you and steve martin exemplify it.
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  28. #28
    bi-winning
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    It's a little early to be fretting about the weather ladies.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkj__
    It's a little early to be fretting about the weather ladies.
    Is it time now to talk about the weather? Looks like a lot of rain.

  30. #30
    Hack Racer
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    I only head up to Hardwood once a year for some recreational riding. But I recall it to have lots of exposed roots. Which would probably mean slippery?

    930 AM start time...

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    i'm sure that others (your competitors most likely) get the double entendre of your...

    race my singlespeed in Sport so that the clean-up is easier

    ...even if you didn't entendre it!
    if ever a case there be for premature promotion, i think you and steve martin exemplify it.
    Premature being the operative word here. Both guys are new to racing and have worked really hard to get where they are.

    Last year there was a certain middle aged sport male who won every single race he attended, by a large margin. I don't recall seeing any public calls for his upgrade...

    They should have a chance to enjoy the podium. After a couple more races, if they're winning by several minutes, perhaps they should upgrade...

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnikcdn
    Premature being the operative word here. Both guys are new to racing and have worked really hard to get where they are.
    Thank you sputnikcdn. Indeed I have been working extremely hard since last fall to get to where I am now. To do well this early in the year has really surprised me, my best finish last season was an 11th place at Buckwallow and prior to that a few DNFs in the late 90's.

    Quote Originally Posted by sputnikcdn
    After a couple more races, if they're winning by several minutes, perhaps they should upgrade...
    I fully agree, as it has to be fun and competitive for everyone. So far for me it's been a matter of just a few seconds.


    Nogearshere might be grumpy because I got a few photos of him having a little mishap last weekend.

  33. #33
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    Anyone know if there's some helmet cam footage floating around of a couse lap at Hardwood? My pre-ride plans fell through and tomorrow's going to be my first time there (riding XC, at least). I'd prefer to not ride the course completely blind if possible.

  34. #34
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    I doubt anyone took footage of the course. If you raced in previous years, then it is very similar, with a few new twists.

    Unfortunately I think I may have to skip this race. I woke up with a sore throat yesterday and today it is worse. I am coughing and have a little fever. I cannot see myself being all better tomorrow. I am so disappointed, because this would be the first time I skip the Canada Cup since I started racing.

    I blame this on sick people who come in at work and pass the germs around. It is great to have a job, but damit, must it affect my personal life like this? Argghh.
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  35. #35
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    First time there for me. I just did a cyclocross race their last season which won't have any overlap except the start/finish.

  36. #36
    Hack Racer
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    first time for me.

    10C is the temp for Sunday. I would expect early morning to be even colder.

    Mud tires for tomorrow's race? Hardwood is getting rain overnight tonight.

  37. #37
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    just admit

    you are intimidated by the course and afraid of breaking your big ring on that big rock in the middle of the twisty rooty turn...

    it is ok. we are all human.

    Quote Originally Posted by serious
    I doubt anyone took footage of the course. If you raced in previous years, then it is very similar, with a few new twists.

    Unfortunately I think I may have to skip this race. I woke up with a sore throat yesterday and today it is worse. I am coughing and have a little fever. I cannot see myself being all better tomorrow. I am so disappointed, because this would be the first time I skip the Canada Cup since I started racing.

    I blame this on sick people who come in at work and pass the germs around. It is great to have a job, but damit, must it affect my personal life like this? Argghh.

  38. #38
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    I would put a knobby tire on (like Jones ACX or similar), but Hardwood takes rain really well. In the past we raced there after having rain all day Saturday and it was still very good.
    My rides:
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  39. #39
    sock puppet
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    roots? check

    hidden drops? check
    bridges? check
    rocks? check
    technical climbs? check

    my shoulder/arms hurt me more than my legs during the preride yesterday...

    however - this is the REAL DEAL MTB course... Puts all other courses that I have raced so far to shame with it's degree of technical difficulty... I guess I know now why Canada Cup is at Hardwood...



    Quote Originally Posted by Cheers!
    I only head up to Hardwood once a year for some recreational riding. But I recall it to have lots of exposed roots. Which would probably mean slippery?

    930 AM start time...

  40. #40
    sock puppet
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    no need for serious knobbies...

    I pre-rode yesterday after all the rain the previous few days... mud is not a factor... roots were dry for our pre-ride...

    it did rain yesterday evening, but i dont think it will affect the course in any significant way.

    i was riding on Hutch Pythons, but i am considering replacing the front one with Racing Ralph...

    i will have Maxxis Ignitors as spare - just in case - but dont think will use them UNLESS it sprinkles in the morning...

    Quote Originally Posted by serious
    I would put a knobby tire on (like Jones ACX or similar), but Hardwood takes rain really well. In the past we raced there after having rain all day Saturday and it was still very good.

  41. #41
    rad to the power of sick
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    I pre-rode yesterday after all the rain the previous few days... mud is not a factor... roots were dry for our pre-ride...

    it did rain yesterday evening, but i dont think it will affect the course in any significant way.
    .
    Good to hear.

    I got some Bontrager Revolt X 2.2's that im gonna ride. Hopefully the high volume sucks up those roots.

    See ya'll tomorrow
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  42. #42
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    osokolo: no need for serious knobbies...

    You are probably right. Too bad I cannot race tomorrow. I feel terrible.
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  43. #43
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    Just to let you guys know. I live 15 minutes from Hardwood. It just started to hammer down rain. It's 6:30. It should dry up quick though

  44. #44
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    hmmm,

    i wonder how much precipitation can the grounds absorb before it is soaked... i am bringing mud tires, no doubt about it... just in case...


    Quote Originally Posted by Matt 24 solo
    Just to let you guys know. I live 15 minutes from Hardwood. It just started to hammer down rain. It's 6:30. It should dry up quick though

  45. #45
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    Update, thunderstorm now

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt 24 solo
    Update, thunderstorm now
    Thanks for the updates Matt.

    Even though the temperatures are going to be frigid, I'm really looking forward to the race.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  47. #47
    Slick Rick
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    What was happening there today? Drove by on my way back from riding at horseshoe and the place was packed.

    I know the race is tomorrow, but anything special today?

  48. #48
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    preriding with

    EMILY...



    Quote Originally Posted by stefanb
    What was happening there today? Drove by on my way back from riding at horseshoe and the place was packed.

  49. #49
    Singlespeed Mysty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt 24 solo
    Update, thunderstorm now
    more like a we were in the middle of a tropcal storm...

    good luck everyone...
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkj__
    Thanks for the updates Matt.

    Even though the temperatures are going to be frigid, I'm really looking forward to the race.
    All of the sudden 8 degrees is frigid...Amazing what a couple of months does to perspective...Sure, it will be a little cool, but this is Canada.
    A bad day on the bike is better than a good day doing anything else...

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