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  1. #1
    humber river advocate
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    NEW Guidelines for Multi-Use Trails in Toronto

    I will be attending this workshop. If anyone would like to input your ideas/requests please feel free to post up. No idea to small or to large.
    I will make sure your voice gets heard.



    NEW Guidelines for Multi-Use Trails in Toronto:

    The City of Toronto has drafted new Multi-Use Trail Design Guidelines for paved paths and we are looking for your feedback. The Martin Goodman Trail, Humber Trail and Finch Hydro Trail are examples of popular multi-use trails in Toronto. These guidelines will provide direction for future trail planning, design, implementation and ongoing maintenance by City staff and their partners.

    The draft guidelines are based on current "best practice", an extensive literature review, and discussions with stakeholders and all relevant City divisions. Now we want to hear from different user groups, organizations and agencies to ensure that the guidelines are consistent and reflect current standards of high quality for trail design.

    We would like to invite you to review the draft guidelines and take part in a discussion to share:
    What issues are important to you?
    Have we missed anything?
    Your insight and expertise into trail design and planning.
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  2. #2
    Team NFI
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    Biggest issue with the Gatineau Hydroline trail is the giant gap between the end of trail at Conlins and the 401. And where it restarts at Orton Park and Ellesmere. No signage for where to go nor any safe route options. So if you can figure out where to go you have a choice of either ride in traffic with your kid and hope not to get taken out. Or you can ride on the side walk.

    Purple mark is the Gatineau Hyrdoline trail.


  3. #3
    humber river advocate
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    incomplete mups and unsafe alternatives/connections... understood
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  4. #4
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    I am not sure how to or if these issues can be fixed. I ride the Waterfront Trail from Burlington to the Beaches. Not all at once, but I do it mostly with my wife who does not like to ride the roads in Toronto. We also ride the Humber Trail from the Lakeshore to various points. The main issues I find are related to the entitlement people feel they have to the whole trail. Anyone jogging, cycling, running or whatever with earbuds turned up so they can't hear you coming is a menace. Dog walkers or parents with children on a leash. They will take up the whole path or are erratic and unpredictable. Anyone on foot with strollers and a whole family on the paved path when large portions have a boardwalk that does not allow cycling or inline skating. The guys on road bikes trying to do 40 km/hour on a busy day. The trail is posted at 20 kmh. In general, there is a lack of etiquette or manners pretty much anywhere I ride. I think a decent education campaign, maybe some signs with rules on them. Maybe signs suggesting the use of the boardwalk. Honestly, I don't understand why you would not stroll on a nice boardwalk right next to the water. There are always a few people on the wrong side of the divided trail or taking up the whole width of the trail so they can chat.
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  5. #5
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    Identify bicycle commuters as legitimate users.

    This means eliminating the 20km/hr speed limit, which is ridiculous for anyone using the paths for transportation over recreation.

    The city must recognize that bicycle commuters have very different needs than recreational cyclists and other recreational park users, and, more importantly, put in facilities and/or enforceable regulations to reduce the potential for conflict between the two groups.

  6. #6
    sheep in FOX clothing
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnikcdn View Post
    This means eliminating the 20km/hr speed limit, which is ridiculous for anyone using the paths for transportation over recreation.
    The new section of waterfront trail in the east end has a speed limit of 15 kph.

    So this is probably a non-starter.

    What's really interesting is that on the Leslie Street Spit, they have a posted limit of 20kph for bikes, and a posted speed limit of 60kph for dump trucks.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettocruiser View Post
    The new section of waterfront trail in the east end has a speed limit of 15 kph.

    So this is probably a non-starter.

    What's really interesting is that on the Leslie Street Spit, they have a posted limit of 20kph for bikes, and a posted speed limit of 60kph for dump trucks.
    The day City of Toronto actually creates a usable bike route system and rules to go with them. Is the day I take over running Rogers Cable.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    Biggest issue with the Gatineau Hydroline trail is the giant gap between the end of trail at Conlins and the 401. And where it restarts at Orton Park and Ellesmere. No signage for where to go nor any safe route options. So if you can figure out where to go you have a choice of either ride in traffic with your kid and hope not to get taken out. Or you can ride on the side walk.
    Not to hijack the thread, but how far does the Gatineau trail go? Google makes it look like there is not much to it.

    And I'll echo the comments regarding lack of courtesy/common sense from other trail users, specifically stunned people on foot.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bishskate View Post
    Not to hijack the thread, but how far does the Gatineau trail go? Google makes it look like there is not much to it.

    .
    The impression I got from when it was completed it was to go from Sheppard and Meadowvale all the way to the Don Valley at Bermondsey. That is where basically it would stop at the tracks. Only way to continue would be lots of bush bashing style hike a bike as the Hydroline goes over the golf course there. I ran the route the Gatineau Hydroline from Morningside and Sheppard to the Ontario Science centre back in 2004.

    The area around Highland Creek it crosses is a bit of a problem as it really isn't in any sort of use. Really just neglected and sees no use unlike areas further south starting around the hospital.

    Veteran Youth rode the Gatineau Hydroline a few years ago as well.

  10. #10
    humber river advocate
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    i know it is an uphill fight, but we have to start somewhere. cities are making changes all over the world. it is inevitable that the changes will happen here.
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  11. #11
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    The path in the central part of the humber was twinned years ago to accommodate and separate peds from cyclists, bladers and the like. I think the central part of the waterfront near the ex is also now twinned? Could twinning be an option more generally?

    Bailing out the automakers cost my family just $400. I'm looking at a much bigger levy for the new transit construction, now that the revenue tools that I was best positioned to duck are off the table again. I don't think I'd even notice a levy for twinning MUPs.

  12. #12
    humber river advocate
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay. View Post
    The path in the central part of the humber was twinned years ago to accommodate and separate peds from cyclists, bladers and the like. I think the central part of the waterfront near the ex is also now twinned? Could twinning be an option more generally?

    Bailing out the automakers cost my family just $400. I'm looking at a much bigger levy for the new transit construction, now that the revenue tools that I was best positioned to duck are off the table again. I don't think I'd even notice a levy for twinning MUPs.
    revenue models that support mups in a sustainable way i think is a critical factor.
    mups are also an important quality of life factor for communities that are connected. a well established and intelligently designed mup network is also a draw for tourism as it provide a unique experience to explore the city/suburbs.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    revenue models that support mups in a sustainable way i think is a critical factor.
    mups are also an important quality of life factor for communities that are connected. a well established and intelligently designed mup network is also a draw for tourism as it provide a unique experience to explore the city/suburbs.
    Anything in Toronto that involves politics and politicians I have long given up hope for ever being done logically.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    Anything in Toronto that involves politics and politicians I have long given up hope for ever being done logically.
    We're in a bit of a slump, no question. When Ford was running in 2010, I had the distinct impression he gave some kind of promise about money to be spent on the offroad network of MUPs, consistent with his vision of getting cyclists off the arterial roads. Am I the only one that remembers that? Maybe it was wishful thinking. And at that time, no one had any clue about the coke. Anyway, fast forward to 2014. In addition to the tandem bike which pops up now and then as a colourful anecdote in articles about Olivia Chow, she was actually involved in retail cycling politics as a member of the old Metro cycling committee. Perhaps not the most effective committee ever struck, but it's something and so for the next four years I like my prospects as a Toronto citizen better than those of, say, the citizens of Leaf nation.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay. View Post
    We're in a bit of a slump, no question. When Ford was running in 2010, I had the distinct impression he gave some kind of promise about money to be spent on the offroad network of MUPs, consistent with his vision of getting cyclists off the arterial roads. Am I the only one that remembers that? Maybe it was wishful thinking. And at that time, no one had any clue about the coke. Anyway, fast forward to 2014. In addition to the tandem bike which pops up now and then as a colourful anecdote in articles about Olivia Chow, she was actually involved in retail cycling politics as a member of the old Metro cycling committee. Perhaps not the most effective committee ever struck, but it's something and so for the next four years I like my prospects as a Toronto citizen better than those of, say, the citizens of Leaf nation.
    Funny thing Kay is the Finch and Gatineau Hydroline trails did not come into existence till after the whole Bike Lane tantrum. Which interestingly coincided with the bike park project by the Lakeshore as well as the sudden availability of $$$ to rebuild the Cummer Park bike jumps.

    I mentioned it before but have it on good authority that the go ahead for these projects which in the case of the bike park has been dragged on for years. And this was after the whole Rob Ford "Hates Cycling" fiasco that many including members here jumped on.

  16. #16
    sheep in FOX clothing
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    The notion that MUPs could ever replace arterial roads (or any roads) as a transportation route in Toronto is comical.

    Last time I checked, Don Mills road wasn't being used for a dump for wood waste, and it didn't have signs telling drivers to get out and push their cars across intersections and bridges.

  17. #17
    sheep in FOX clothing
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    So I had a near-miss on the way to work this morning.

    The MUP crossing at Lawrence had a green light for bicycles, with about 10 seconds left on the adjacent crosswalk timer. I saw it ahead and sped up, just like one might when on a roadway. I am an idiot.

    A motorist on Lawrence drove through the red light.

    I was saved by the fact that the motorist, while completely ignoring the red light at the bicycle crossing, was anticipating the 'real' red light at Lawrence in another 60 yards, and was slowing down. So we saw each other with enough time to brake for the near miss.

    If the light at Lawrence had been green and he had been going the usual speed of traffic on Lawrence, I would, quite simply, have been killed instantly.

    Lesson learned. The only reason drivers stop for 'real' red lights is because their afraid they are going to get T-boned by a tractor trailer. Thus, if you are riding a bike on a route that is not open to motor vehicles, your right-of-way will be ignored when it matters most. You will need to stop for red lights, and stop for green lights.

    MUPs. Not transportation routes. Not even once.

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