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  1. #26
    humber river advocate
    Reputation: singlesprocket's Avatar
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    there would be trails in crother woods either way. i think the city has realized that it is better to work with stakeholders rather then shut them out. the trails would get built one way or the other in other words as you well know. the cities and most conservation association mandates in the end is to protect the forest (green space) first. if building a trail will do that or that a trail will divert people from a sensitive area then it is an easy sell. that you provide recreation sustainable recreation opportunities that meet the living cities objectives is the cream on top. now the idea of a mtb only trail out side a skill area is almost dead with these associations, it just does not make sense to them. most trail committees models are now made up of a diverse # of stakeholders thus the emphasis on multi use trails. in this committee mix clubs play a more limited roll as they only represent a small portion of users. the trail construction will become less dependent on volunteer labor, the emphasis will be on tenders to qualified construction companies since they have the accountability (liability, think skate parks). general maintenance will still be a role that volunteer can do.

    the alliances you speak of are already built into the structures of these committees. this will be the trend of the future...




    Quote Originally Posted by SkidVicious View Post
    My comment was more facetious and doesn't reflect my thoughts on imba. The people at imba canada, Mark, Lora, Jason, etc have done great things, if it wasn't for them, would we even have the crothers woods trails sanctioned by the city ? IMBA has had a bit more success in other municipalities (which has more to do with with the city's aversion to looking at activities from a drawback-ie. liability perspective, instead of a benefit perspective), but in the end I think it is local clubs that will make the difference as they become better organized, create alliances with what in the past has been our "rivals": hikers, dog walkers, naturalists (a very important step, imo), because we all want the same thing in the end and that must be recognized (the benefits of these activities can be qualified and quantified very easily), like it was for the FMC's and MTBNZ. So yeah, I think in that sense NZ is a bit ahead of us.
    bolton trail info
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  2. #27
    cyberbully
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    i think you should read the link that Enduramil posted. this is strictly the kind of trails we like to ride...the alliance is between hikers, climbers (FMC) and mtbnz, lighter treading modes of recreational transportation than atv's and horses, with a narrower trail corridor and lower ecological impact. not the same as the OTC, which uses provincial funds (looks like $75 mil in the last three years) on who knows what (they don't really say). In fact, if you actually looked at the OTC trails map for off road cycling, you would find less than a handful of mtb trails on there.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    ...the trail construction will become less dependent on volunteer labor, the emphasis will be on tenders to qualified construction companies since they have the accountability (liability, think skate parks). ....
    Do you work for one of those qualified construction companies?

  4. #29
    humber river advocate
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkidVicious View Post
    i think you should read the link that Enduramil posted. this is strictly the kind of trails we like to ride...the alliance is between hikers, climbers (FMC) and mtbnz, lighter treading modes of recreational transportation than atv's and horses, with a narrower trail corridor and lower ecological impact. not the same as the OTC, which uses provincial funds (looks like $75 mil in the last three years) on who knows what (they don't really say). In fact, if you actually looked at the OTC trails map for off road cycling, you would find less than a handful of mtb trails on there.
    which recreational transportation is the major tourism income generator here in ontario outside of major urban areas? which is why the nz report does not hold alot of water here
    in these committees, plus the huge population difference and size of urban areas. mtbers have missed the boat on forming alliances with the trail council years ago and have a lot of ground to make up. talking and citing reports on narrower trail corridors and lower ecological impacts will get us no where fast at this stage. the urban areas are a different story and i touched on that in a different post.
    bolton trail info
    bmbc1st @ yahoo.com
    support TORBA
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  5. #30
    humber river advocate
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray.vermette View Post
    Do you work for one of those qualified construction companies?
    nope... why do you ask?
    bolton trail info
    bmbc1st @ yahoo.com
    support TORBA
    Albion Hills Conservation Area Master Plan Public Advisory Committee

  6. #31
    cyberbully
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    I'll say it again: you should read the report, it concerns wilderness/back-country trails, not atv or horse trails (in our neck of the woods, the BT is apropos: we all ride/rode sections of the bruce at some point, we know it can be suitable for mtb, not all sections obviously) . I'm happy that the atvers and equestrians let you get into bed with them, even if you have to be inside spoon for now, but the scope of the NZ report has zero to do with those types of activities. And as a mtb advocate you should recognize the types of trails that we all love riding most instead of defending the oligarchical status quo and basically telling us that we should accept any pittance that is thrown our way because the economics says so.

    That's why I find these perception studies important, it shows that a community can self-improve and boldly go where they say we can't, alliances with hikers and naturalists are more suitable for mtb than those with atvers and horse peeps. Are we not free to choose sense over dollars?

  7. #32
    humber river advocate
    Reputation: singlesprocket's Avatar
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    as you well know i fight for the type of trails we like to ride. some recent stuff i worked on

    for example:
    nashville tract trail project
    palgrave gets more fun...
    saturday don trail build/repair
    Update on the natural environment trail strategy
    Kolapore trail maintenance -- Sat 22 September -- call for volunteers


    I think it is about getting more trails we like to ride funded/built... It was a mistake we didn't get involved with the trail council from the beginning... if we just worked with the hikers outside of urban areas we will get nowhere fast. township councils are full of people who are aligned with trail council members (as well as their supporters) just as more urban areas are aligned with hiker groups... you have to adjust to the political landscape and not just bemoan the "oligarchical status quo" which is a dated approach...









    Quote Originally Posted by SkidVicious View Post
    I'll say it again: you should read the report, it concerns wilderness/back-country trails, not atv or horse trails (in our neck of the woods, the BT is apropos: we all ride/rode sections of the bruce at some point, we know it can be suitable for mtb, not all sections obviously) . I'm happy that the atvers and equestrians let you get into bed with them, even if you have to be inside spoon for now, but the scope of the NZ report has zero to do with those types of activities. And as a mtb advocate you should recognize the types of trails that we all love riding most instead of defending the oligarchical status quo and basically telling us that we should accept any pittance that is thrown our way because the economics says so.

    That's why I find these perception studies important, it shows that a community can self-improve and boldly go where they say we can't, alliances with hikers and naturalists are more suitable for mtb than those with atvers and horse peeps. Are we not free to choose sense over dollars?
    Last edited by singlesprocket; 11-29-2012 at 03:19 PM.
    bolton trail info
    bmbc1st @ yahoo.com
    support TORBA
    Albion Hills Conservation Area Master Plan Public Advisory Committee

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