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  1. #1
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    Legal to Ride Side by Side

    If you hurt in your efforts and suffer painful dings. Then you are doing it right.

  2. #2
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    This is good news. It was a bylaw that didn't make sense, and would either catch parents and kids riding down their residential street in the net, or have the potential to be used to specifically target club rides (or what the general public thinks of as "racers") while leaving the family rides alone "at the officer's discretion".

    (What also doesn't make sense is the photo in that article - they've flipped it so all 3 bikes have the drive side on the wrong side )

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by drussell View Post

    (What also doesn't make sense is the photo in that article - they've flipped it so all 3 bikes have the drive side on the wrong side )
    That does look weird!
    Friends don't let friends cheer for the TML

  4. #4
    sheep in FOX clothing
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    On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 3:20 PM, ghettocruiser wrote:

    Dear members of the committee:

    Thank you for opportunity to submit a few comments on PW21.11 and 950-201(A)

    I do not, and have never, lived in the former City of Etobicoke, I have rarely ridden my bike there. So I am having great trouble wrapping my head around why a by-law passed years ago, in a City I've never lived it, by representatives that I never heard of (never mind voted for), is now posed to be introduced BY DEFAULT in my city, on my street, without any consultation of stakeholders, or coherent rationale.

    This is not a simple post-amalgamation clerical issue. This is in all meaningful respects a NEW BY-LAW that amends the Ontario Highway Traffic Act for roadways in Toronto.

    Implicit in the notion that cyclists riding side-by-side is "obstructing traffic" is the secondary notion that cyclists should ride single-file to allow fast overtaking motor vehicles to share the lane with them. The safety flaws of this idea can be illustrated in this short clip from my commute:

    Bayview Minibus Cosy Pass 02-21-2012 - YouTube

    My question regarding this new proposed by-law is simple: What about the substance of the HTA is inadequate, such that Toronto feels compelled to amend it to further restrict the movements of cyclists on city streets?

    Moreover, why is this change being rushed through in the winter session (when few people have bikes on their mind) when a wide range of recommendations to improve road safety from the 1998 Coroner's Report on cycling have been sitting on the shelf completely ignored for 15 years? A similar report by the City of Toronto, which I read with great interest upon publication in 2003, seems to have similarly been relegated to irrelevance.

    Until those questions are given viable and unbiased answers, no bylaws restricting the right of bicyclists to travel in the City of Toronto are appropriate. The existing HTA is more than adequate.


    (Signed with my real name)

  5. #5
    sheep in FOX clothing
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    I'd also like to thank Fraz and the MG guys for bringing this law to our collective attention.

    Since apparently strange new cycling laws are being snuck in under cover of winter, presumably for some "gotcha" traffic blitzes in May.

  6. #6
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    Wow..I expected much more from MTBrEC.
    If you hurt in your efforts and suffer painful dings. Then you are doing it right.

  7. #7
    Evil Jr.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    Wow..I expected much more from MTBrEC.
    Side-by-side riding is currently illegal in Hamilton due to a silly bylaw. Don't let it happen to you too! GRRR!

    Was that better?
    Please enjoy seeing this terrible collection of me - something wonderful is about to happy.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster View Post
    Side-by-side riding is currently illegal in Hamilton due to a silly bylaw. Don't let it happen to you too! GRRR!

    Was that better?
    Well, they do have to keep all those hooligans riding bikes in packs under control. If we let them ride side by each the next thing you know they will be wanting a CX track and a Velodrome.
    If you hurt in your efforts and suffer painful dings. Then you are doing it right.

  9. #9
    sheep in FOX clothing
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Toronto Star Sun Jun 10 2012
    Const. Rowan Hamlet was struck while cycling alongside another officer around 9:30 p.m., police said. He was taken to Humber River hospital to treat a strained shoulder, scraped forearms and a back injury.

    The driver is also charged with dangerous driving and failure to remain.
    Re-posted without further comment.

  10. #10
    Workin for the weekend!
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    Two things.

    1. Why would anyone stop for a police officer while on a bicycle...? IMO, bolting is so much more fun than a ticket. What kind of cop tickets a cyclist, prolly a donut eating fatty cop.

    2. Cyclists that wish to toe the line between what's "legal" versus what's "smart" is amazing. Riding in a pack on roads that commuters use to get home to their families does nothing but irritate the fudge out of anyone not part of your hobby grade peloton. None of it matters when you're dead. Riding in file is smarter than riding in a pack.

    Flame on.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Todd- View Post

    2. Cyclists that wish to toe the line between what's "legal" versus what's "smart" is amazing. Riding in a pack on roads that commuters use to get home to their families does nothing but irritate the fudge out of anyone not part of your hobby grade peloton. None of it matters when you're dead. Riding in file is smarter than riding in a pack.
    Yes, because only riding single file has seen absolutely no cyclists killed in the last say 5 years.

    Reality is this does nothing to deal with problems in the province that is the deadliest of all for those not in a car.

    Now permit me to be the one to throw the 10 litre drum of Napalm on the bonfire,

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    If you hurt in your efforts and suffer painful dings. Then you are doing it right.

  12. #12
    sheep in FOX clothing
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Todd- View Post
    Riding in a pack on roads that commuters use to get home to their families does nothing but irritate the fudge out of anyone not part of your hobby grade peloton. None of it matters when you're dead.
    What's interesting is that I've never gotten crap from drivers while riding a full lane in the donut ride or any other big group. They just change lanes and drive past us, as if it's easy or something.

    All the threats and sideswipes have been while I'm riding by myself. Funny, it's almost like those bad-asses in pick-up trucks are scared to pick a fight with a big group of people.

    Maybe they contain their rage at the group for days or weeks and then exude it when they finally encounter a lone cyclist? I guess anything's possible.

  13. #13
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    I sympathize, and I don't think it's right that cyclists can't enjoy the road as they wish, but the truth of the matter is that you're taking your chances every time you get into traffic. Expecting it to be diminished when you're not tucked in a steel cocoon is silly. Until all drivers ride bikes in their spare time, there's always going to be confrontation. The car will always win.

    I don't know about the rest of you, but I'll never put my life in the hands of someone with an axe to grind on cyclists. I'll stick to the woods for my ride.

  14. #14
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    Great letter ghettocruiser!

    And Todd, just because you chose to ride the woods only, does not mean the rest of us want (or can) make the same choice.
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  15. #15
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    I suspect that those behind this are the same mental midgets who smoke dream on lights and believe that the painted white lines of a bike lane. Will some how emit a force field of moon beams and Pixie dust that will protect cyclist's from the average ADD type driver.
    If you hurt in your efforts and suffer painful dings. Then you are doing it right.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Todd- View Post
    Cyclists that wish to toe the line between what's "legal" versus what's "smart" is amazing. Riding in a pack on roads that commuters use to get home to their families does nothing but irritate the fudge out of anyone not part of your hobby grade peloton. None of it matters when you're dead. Riding in file is smarter than riding in a pack.Flame on.
    Every group ride I've seen or taken part in has been on quiet backroads, on weekends, during low-traffic hours, or often all 3 at the same time. I've never seen a pack riding a major commuting road during regular working hours. Cyclists don't want to get stuck in commuter traffic any more than the auto drivers that actually create the commuter traffic in the first place.

  17. #17
    Workin for the weekend!
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    Living in Flamborough, I run into the peloton of egos frequently. 25 ppl all plugging along at 30kph, in a 60 or 80 zone, between 4:30 and 8pm. It does nothing but get drivers frustrated and pushes some to make silly, dumb moves in attempt to pass the group.

    Watching the group run the stop signs to carry their momentum into the following hill is just amazing, it shows a blatant disregard for the rules of the road. Brittania Road (eastbound) @ Blind line is amazing for it, ask me how I know. If you don't believe, go check it out.

    The gamble people take is amazing, considering the losses are so great. I'm always surprised, that people want to roll the dice with their lives like this.

  18. #18
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    I had to drive in Toronto today. I will have to be out in Mississisauga tomorrow and drive in Toronto traffic. Watching people drive their cars while in a car is scary to watch. And does nothing to inspire confidence in any one here.

    I'll gladly pay a fine for riding on the sidewalk then sharing the road.
    If you hurt in your efforts and suffer painful dings. Then you are doing it right.

  19. #19
    sheep in FOX clothing
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    Are they running the stop sign into oncoming traffic? Because I could stand along Highway 6 with a radar gun and see how many guys are speeding... it's no less illegal by the letter of the HTA, its just drivers, myself included, have just rationalized it to fit our own behaviors so we can think we are the "good guys".

    But rolling the dice with my life? Really? How many people actually are killed road riding in a group in broad daylight, vs. say...driving with a group of males under the age of 25 on Friday night... snowmobiling, ATVing boating, or hell, just swimming after a few drinks at the cottage... motorcycling (all forms)..crossing any arterial road in Toronto in winter rush hour.... doing anything in the backcountry out west anytime remotely close to avalanche season... I could go on. But I like my odds compared most everyone else's ideas of "recreation".

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