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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    sprockids is putting the chicken before the egg... while a good program the bigger issue is just getting kids on bikes and making accessible cycling part of the lifestyle/recreation of communities.

    the infrastructure has to be there, the rest will follow... perfect example is when they built the skate park in bolton. i went to the meetings advocating that some accommodation be made be made for bmxers. the response from the skaters was predictable. fast forward to now, the park is crowded mainly with kids on bmx bikes (parents nowhere to be found lol).

    i think the best thing you can do for your prodigy is to advocate for cycling (bmx, dirts jumps, skills parks, etc) for your community with in walking/cycling/public transport distance... and then take them there to session.
    Ah, because building infrastructure is the only solution to this and reject all other options. Because if there is no skills park kids won't ride bikes. Ah, the skills park the cycling verson of basketball programs for youth. Now it's a stereotype. Build a skills park and all problems for youth cycling are solved. Gee where have I heard this institutional like mindset before?

    Sorry this mindset of your is the problem. While skills parks are helpful they are not the solution. Not all kids will want to ride at the kills park or want that only. Just like not all kids want basketball or want to do it all the time.

    More energy needs to be directed at what Oggie, Unglued, and others are doing. What got me into riding in 86. Simply take them out riding on trails. Reality is cycling is pretty accessible for any kid. The problems presented by parents who are poor is about priorities. When you feel it is better to spend $300 plus on a Xbox then a bike. It's hard to follow that logic. I know four kids from poor parents who ride because of their single parent made that choice.
    If you hurt in your efforts and suffer painful dings. Then you are doing it right.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggie View Post

    I got rid of my minivan and replaced it with a VW. However, I haven't had a hitch installed yet for a bike rack. .
    Friendly heads up. With a hitch mount on the VW you have be aware of ground clearance. I just noticed ours is bent.
    If you hurt in your efforts and suffer painful dings. Then you are doing it right.

  3. #28
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    -cycling infrastructure is just like basketball programs for youth?

    -promoting cycling infrastructure is a stereotypical institutional like mindset?

    lol you and rob ford should get together... you have the same provincial mindset.

    successful sustainable communities are defined by their infrastructure

    good points made in both of these reports

    http://www.mlseteamupfoundation.org/...port_jul07.pdf

    http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/28313/1/CASEreport23.pdf

    the reality is recreation infrastructure is thankfully going in the direction i've touched upon because of accessibility, cost, proven success of sustainabilty. though it has a long way to go.

    it's time to move beyond the status quo...



    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    Ah, because building infrastructure is the only solution to this and reject all other options. Because if there is no skills park kids won't ride bikes. Ah, the skills park the cycling verson of basketball programs for youth. Now it's a stereotype. Build a skills park and all problems for youth cycling are solved. Gee where have I heard this institutional like mindset before?

    Sorry this mindset of your is the problem. While skills parks are helpful they are not the solution. Not all kids will want to ride at the kills park or want that only. Just like not all kids want basketball or want to do it all the time.

    More energy needs to be directed at what Oggie, Unglued, and others are doing. What got me into riding in 86. Simply take them out riding on trails. Reality is cycling is pretty accessible for any kid. The problems presented by parents who are poor is about priorities. When you feel it is better to spend $300 plus on a Xbox then a bike. It's hard to follow that logic. I know four kids from poor parents who ride because of their single parent made that choice.
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    -cycling infrastructure is just like basketball programs for youth?

    -promoting cycling infrastructure is a stereotypical institutional like mindset?

    Nice spin doctoring what I said.

    But since your ignorance of these programs I speak of I'll say it simply. For some reason people have latched onto the whole basketball programs is the best thing for youth bandwagon. The city has jumped all over it and is their solution for everything. I see this whole bike skills park as the next version of it. Problem is this becomes dangerous as everything becomes focused on this as a solution like a bike skills park. Everything else gets ignored other then this.

    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post

    lol you and rob ford should get together... you have the same provincial mindset..
    Ah, weak sauce insult against someone who thinks differently. Excellent work and exactly what I expected. Hmm.. I said by the way nothing that cycling infrastructure is useless. I only focused on the bike skills park. But you twisted it into something else.

    Now instead of doing one handed push ups in quick sand while using a cheese grater erotically. I will send some time helping my daughter work on her bike.
    Last edited by Enduramil; 02-09-2013 at 04:59 PM.
    If you hurt in your efforts and suffer painful dings. Then you are doing it right.

  5. #30
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    Chris: All the trails and infrastructure in the world won't help without some support and encouragement from family and friends.

    Chris: Support and encouragement from family and friends for MTB only goes so far without trails and infrastructure to ride.

    You're both right about that you're supporting is important, but you should realize that what Chris is supporting is important too.

  6. #31
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    My son is about to turn 12, and is stoked about starting his second year in the kelso weekly race series. He just started out riding with me starting on paths, then mild trails off the path, then kelso trail rides, then waterdown. After a couple years of riding trails, |I asked him if he wanted to try racing. I was careful to keep it fun and kept encouraging him. I learned the hard way pushing him too hard in soccer and baseball until he hated both. I also found that having him watch downhill/freeride videos (without crash scenes. haha) helped.
    Best of luck

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickboers View Post
    Chris: All the trails and infrastructure in the world won't help without some support and encouragement from family and friends.

    Chris: Support and encouragement from family and friends for MTB only goes so far without trails and infrastructure to ride.

    You're both right about that you're supporting is important, but you should realize that what Chris is supporting is important too.
    I'm so confused. Touché Nick.

    Chris: Please keep your posts on the topic, not the person.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip View Post
    I'm so confused. Touché Nick.

    Chris: Please keep your posts on the topic, not the person.
    hey, i didn't start the personal attacks, look at my first post.

    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    we need more programs like this for all communities...

    CCA CAN-BIKE Program: Kids CAN-BIKE Camp
    and the post that follows as well as the edited one...
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  9. #34
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    First off Biggie, why would a 12 year old kid want to ride 40k, with all due respect, why would you expect him to be interested in that, i cant get my head around it..

    Kids like to have FUN, Myself and my mates would have rather been just mucking around on the BMX, just razzing around, a 40k ride would have turned me off biking for life at that age.

    Yes im sure theres a handful of kids that might like it at that age but ive never ran into or known one.

    And your kids might never get into biking, they will find their own hobbies, the more you try and get them to appreciate it theres a chance they will like it even less, you know how kids are.

    All i can say is that if you are any chance to get into biking you have to make it FUN, and more fun than alternative things they could be doing and if it never happens it never happens, more time for you to enjoy YOUR passion and ride at your own pace.

    There is one thing i see as a dirty word, and thats 'competition' ..
    Because it can have the habit or turning fun and enjoyment into competing against other kids which can be a very unhappy time for them if they are not interested.
    i think thats a negative in itself, unless the kids are the ones that make the call and show the interest that they want to do it.
    Im not saying its a bad thing, it comes down to the nature of the child, but what is a bad thing is parents that try and get their kids to compete when they have no desire..

    cheers mate
    Last edited by Tone's; 02-10-2013 at 06:57 AM.
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    hey, i didn't start the personal attacks, look at my first post.

    and the post that follows as well as the edited one...
    My post was for other Chris. Thought that would have been obvious. Guess not.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    First off Biggie, why would a 12 year old kid want to ride 40k, with all due respect, why would you expect him to be interested in that, i cant get my head around it..

    Yes im sure theres a handful of kids that might like it at that age but ive never ran into or known one.

    And your kids might never get into biking, they will find their own hobbies, the more you try and get them to appreciate it theres a chance they will like it even less, you know how kids are.

    All i can say is that if you are any chance to get into biking you have to make it FUN, and more fun than alternative things they could be doing and if it never happens it never happens, more time for you to enjoy YOUR passion and ride at your own pace.

    There is one thing i see as a dirty word, and thats 'competition' ..
    Because it can have the habit or turning fun and enjoyment into competing against other kids which can be a very unhappy time for them if they are not interested.
    i think thats a negative in itself, unless the kids are the ones that make the call and show the interest that they want to do it.

    Im not saying its a bad thing, it comes down to the nature of the child, but what is a bad thing is parents that try and get their kids to compete when they have no desire..

    cheers mate
    I certainly understand where you are coming from. I'm not sure you are an East Coaster here, but minor hockey really brings out the uglier side of adults (myself included). That said, my kids have to do an outdoor activity summer and winter, in addition to the water stuff they do at our summer place all summer long. They also have to do an hour of piano a week and put in decent efforts with their homework. I don't feel exposure to competition is bad at all. Just forced exposure. And pressure.

    We almost lost our oldest son last summer when my Wife sent him white water kayaking on the Ottawa river under prepared. She had to watch him while he rolled in a wave for 2 minutes, screaming, "Help!" the odd rotation when he got his head up. But his athleticism saved him. The water kep him from being able to sit forward to pull his ripcord so he put his hands on the side of the cockpit and ejected himself and the skirt from the boat. Not sure I've forgiven the wife on that one. Not many 11 yearolds who have stared death straight in the eye and gave him the old , "Screw You".

    The decision to do the 63km Paris 2 Ancaster was his. When he bailed I was dissappointed but know it was a good decision. You don't know me - I'm a fat bloated 3 cheeseburger/20 timbit eating anti-athelete. The hardest part of 40km for him would be towing his FatDad and listening to me snivel. He could do it. I think he could do the 40, fairly easy in 2 1/2 hours. I wouldn't be difficult to keep up with. My biggest concern with new cyclists is taint chafe, pink puffy crack and general undercarriage malaise.

    Slainte.
    "I love being on a bike. It helps me feel free. I get it from my dad", by Guillaume Blanchet

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggie View Post
    I certainly understand where you are coming from. I'm not sure you are an East Coaster here, but minor hockey really brings out the uglier side of adults (myself included). That said, my kids have to do an outdoor activity summer and winter, in addition to the water stuff they do at our summer place all summer long. They also have to do an hour of piano a week and put in decent efforts with their homework. I don't feel exposure to competition is bad at all. Just forced exposure. And pressure.

    We almost lost our oldest son last summer when my Wife sent him white water kayaking on the Ottawa river under prepared. She had to watch him while he rolled in a wave for 2 minutes, screaming, "Help!" the odd rotation when he got his head up. But his athleticism saved him. The water kep him from being able to sit forward to pull his ripcord so he put his hands on the side of the cockpit and ejected himself and the skirt from the boat. Not sure I've forgiven the wife on that one. Not many 11 yearolds who have stared death straight in the eye and gave him the old , "Screw You".

    The decision to do the 63km Paris 2 Ancaster was his. When he bailed I was dissappointed but know it was a good decision. You don't know me - I'm a fat bloated 3 cheeseburger/20 timbit eating anti-athelete. The hardest part of 40km for him would be towing his FatDad and listening to me snivel. He could do it. I think he could do the 40, fairly easy in 2 1/2 hours. I wouldn't be difficult to keep up with. My biggest concern with new cyclists is taint chafe, pink puffy crack and general undercarriage malaise.

    Slainte.
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip View Post
    My post was for other Chris. Thought that would have been obvious. Guess not.
    apology accepted
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unglued View Post
    No one knows your kids better than you.
    i would say that is a loaded statement... parental projection is the extreme side of things... what tones said is very valid (the mod does not live in ec so why does it matter that tones does not live here?)... there is a lot of information on this subject (below is just a sprinkling) and it is a difficult issue for people to acknowledge.

    Are You Enmeshed with Your Children?

    Are our pampered kids under too much pressure? - The Globe and Mail

    May 2006 Newsletter Feature 3 | SIRC
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    apology accepted
    Call it an explanation, not an apology. On the other hand, an apology from you would be appropriate for the ridiculous and highly erroneous message (i.e. post report) you sent to me.

  16. #41
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    This is a good thread, let's try to keep it on topic. My son is just turning 6, and I'd sure like him to get into cycling so keep the ideas coming please! Got a few other sports and activities lined up of course variety is good.

    Some people here seem to have both, but if you had to choose a next bike for a 6-7 year old would you choose a (geared) mountain bike or a bmx?

  17. #42
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    I got my son a geared mountain bike first. then he showed interest in bmx too, so now has both. Started with a mountain bike because he wanted to trail ride with me. It was sort of a dirt jump bike with gears, so worked for jumps too. hard to trail ride on a bmx.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay. View Post
    Some people here seem to have both, but if you had to choose a next bike for a 6-7 year old would you choose a (geared) mountain bike or a bmx?
    My Son riding at 4 and basically moved up a wheel size each year from 14" to 16" and now he rides an 18" BMX, all from Toys R US. His present ride is aluminum frame, I removed some pieces, made his brakes work, etc. Its actuallt pretty light. His MTB is a 20" Giant. He prefers the Giant on trails, obviously. As Tone alluded to, bombing around the block, riding stairs and ramps he BMXes.

    I like having both. I think I'll get good return on Investment on them on kijiji when he's done with them.

    The BMX from Toys R US the brakes didn't work at all when new. However, the bike looks great and when on sale is $100.
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  19. #44
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    This is him, apparently, having fun on a 14" wheeled $69 Spiderman bike. Fun can be had on cheap bikes.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Introducing Kids to the Sport???-quinnair.jpg  

    "I love being on a bike. It helps me feel free. I get it from my dad", by Guillaume Blanchet

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    ... what tones said is very valid (the mod does not live in ec so why does it matter that tones does not live here?)... there is a lot of information on this subject (below is just a sprinkling) and it is a difficult issue for people to acknowledge.
    I certainly didn't mean to diminish what Tone said, my point was that unless you have lived minor hockey it is unimaginable the level of pressure little boys and girls are exposed to. I would imagine it is unique among the sports. Skating is more difficult than walking and the "need" to have kids doing backwards and forwards crossovers by 6 is really insane. In soccer and rugby if a kid can't run its all she wrote. In hockey parents go, "maybe he just needs more power skating."
    "I love being on a bike. It helps me feel free. I get it from my dad", by Guillaume Blanchet

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay. View Post
    Some people here seem to have both, but if you had to choose a next bike for a 6-7 year old would you choose a (geared) mountain bike or a bmx?
    I'd say at that age, you'd probably be fine with a singlespeed either way. Gears just get in the way of having fun.
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggie View Post
    I certainly didn't mean to diminish what Tone said, my point was that unless you have lived minor hockey it is unimaginable the level of pressure little boys and girls are exposed to. I would imagine it is unique among the sports. Skating is more difficult than walking and the "need" to have kids doing backwards and forwards crossovers by 6 is really insane. In soccer and rugby if a kid can't run its all she wrote. In hockey parents go, "maybe he just needs more power skating."
    Biggie, we play rugby league and rugby union here with the former known as the most violent and toughest team sport on the planet, so much so that when visiting American pro footballers come here they comment to the man that they cannot believe that people play it, no helmets or pads are used, its a demanding and tough game, yes i agree hockey is too, i watch quite a bit of it, but its no more tougher or skillful than rugby league, or junior boxing for that matter, we breed em pretty tough here too mate.
    But i will say i admire the aggression and skill level of ice hockey, but its not just a matter of ''if kids can run its all she wrote'' in regards to Rugby league, you need skill, composure, toughness, especially if your a little white kid playing against tongans, samoans and kiwis that are twice your weight and size looking to smash you as soon as you touch the ball, its a real tough game league, Hockey aint even in the same book at a kids or adult level.
    cheers
    Last edited by Tone's; 02-12-2013 at 01:07 AM.
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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Biggie, we play rugby league and rugby union here with the former known as the most violent and toughest team sport on the planet, so much so that when visiting American pro footballers come here they comment to the man that they cannot believe that people play it, no helmets or pads are used, its a demanding and tough game, yes i agree hockey is too, i watch quite a bit of it, but its no more tougher or skillful than rugby league, or junior boxing for that matter, we breed em pretty tough here too mate.
    But i will say i admire the aggression and skill level of ice hockey, but its not just a matter of ''if kids can run its all she wrote'' in regards to Rugby league, you need skill, composure, toughness, especially if your a little white kid playing against tongans, samoans and kiwis that are twice your weight and size looking to smash you as soon as you touch the ball, its a real tough game league, Hockey aint even in the same book at a kids or adult level.
    cheers
    I come from Canada's hot spot for rugby, The Rock. Launch pad of Rod Snow, Ciaren Hearn, Chauncey O'toole, etc.

    Sorry for the lack of clarity, I wasn't comparing the athleticism or courage required for each. My point about the uniqueness of hockey is skating. Because hockey is played on skates parents often over look their children's complete lack of athleticism and continue throwing money at power skating. Skating camouflages a simple lack of athleticism.

    Perhaps, 20 years ago, rugby props were less atheletic. But in today's rugby everyone gets around the field. The days of 5'8", 300lb props and hookers seem like they are gone...that is what I meant by, "if they can't run it is all she wrote".
    "I love being on a bike. It helps me feel free. I get it from my dad", by Guillaume Blanchet

  24. #49
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    Best way to get kids into the sport is 5 hour slog fests on gravel roads on a road bike in April in the rain.

  25. #50
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    Here is my experience, based on a family of four, currently ages 2 thru 9 yrs. We have a mix of 1 boy and 3 girls. They run the gambit in terms of athleticism from very athletic, to not athletic at all.

    During the summer we have weekly outings to Kelso on a Sunday afternoon where we rip a few trails up together, and then go to the beach as a family for a swim. For the ride we have frequent stops and make sure to pack lots of snacks for when they get hungry. The highlight of the day is playing at the beach, not the ride:-)

    We also go to the family friendly Tuesday night race series at Kelso. My wife and I race, and there is a free kids course as well. We put no pressure on them to race and if they don't finish a race, it's no problem. The kids have been doing it for the last couple years, typically beginning at 4-5 years of age. The two oldest hope to graduate to the Beginner adult course this summer. Our criteria to race the adult course will be that they can complete the course without any help. They have become familiar with the trails and understand the race etiquette for letting others pass.

    From an equipment perspective, we started them on bikes found on the side of the road, graduated them to a department store 6-speed with 20" wheels at ~5, and now the 7 and 9 year old are riding 18-speeds with 24" wheels. You can get great bikes for good value at MEC (Dash-20" wheels, and Ace-24" wheels.) Moral of the story, you don't need to spend a lot of $$ on bikes to get them started.

    The kids interest in mountain biking is growing. Last summer I took my 6 year old to Hardwood Hills (Barrie) and he road 28k worth of trails-- and I was following him (he is the more athletic one of the kids though.) At this point they are starting to ask to get involved in things like O-Cup races which they have been exposed to from an early age.

    From my experience the key is to get the kids started fairly early, keep it fun (e.g. short), and bring them along to things like Kelso races and O-cups. Don't be discouraged if you have a few meltdowns along the trail but try to understand why they are melting down and adjust accordingly (for us, lack of sleep and/or hungry are typically the root cause.) For us though the goal isn't to get our kids to race necessarily (that would be fun though I think), but to teach them a healthy and active lifestyle.

    With respect to the original post on the P2A race, perhaps riding tandem, or with a trail-a-bike is an option? I have a friend who did this with his son at around the same age and it worked well. At the end of the day though, I wouldn't do it unless a) they really want to do it, and b) I'm confident they are capable of completing the race.

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