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  1. #1
    Evil Jr.
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    Intermontane: Total Disaster (So Far)!

    With all due credit to Mrs. Monster (who found this write-up):
    Intermontane cancels third-day results

    By MARK HUNTER
    Daily News Sports Reporter

    July 30, 2009

    Kamloops – A black cloud hung over the finish line of the third stage at the Intermontane Challenge mountain bike race Wednesday.

    Some riders came through the finish line in the wrong direction. Others came in the backs of pick-up trucks. And the men's race leader, Jeremiah Bishop, wouldn't have made it at all, if not for some help from teammate David (Tinker) Juarez, who pushed him across the finish line.

    To put the cherry on top of a terrible day, race organizer Chuck Brennan announced after most of the riders were finished that the Stage 3 results would not count toward the overall time in the five-day race.

    “It's a sad day,” Brennan said. “We have two more good days of riding.”

    Today's Stage 4, the Top of the World, is scheduled to start at TRU at 7 a.m. The times after Tuesday's Stage 2 will be carried over to today.

    Stage 3 started on a bad note, when organizers learned that someone was sabotaging the course. The stage was scheduled to start at 8 a.m., but the riders didn't start rolling until around 10:45, after organizers scrambled to reroute and remark the course.

    Because most of the sabotage surrounded the Greenstone Mountain side of the stage, organizers decided to cut around that part, lopping around 30 kilometres off the originally scheduled 85km ride.

    Unfortunately, some of the new track wasn't marked well, and a lot of riders got lost, a few of whom were forced to call for a pick up. One unhappy rider angrily threw his helmet and a backpack after finishing the stage.

    “Because we were doing it in reverse, the markings were marked on the back of trees,” said Kamloops' Chris Sheppard, who finished the stage first overall in three hours six minutes eight seconds. “Coming down, I did two kilometres more than the fifth-place guy. At one point, I was way down below and I could see the guys up on a ridge.”

    Bishop, who is from Harrisonburg, Va., was the overall leader after two stages, 5:44 ahead of Sheppard, who lives in Bend, Ore.

    But disaster struck Bishop when he fell off his bike and injured his neck in the final two kilometres of the stage. According to riders nearby, Bishop went over a small ridge and failed to negotiate a sudden turn.

    “We were going down a single-track descent and we were crossing a dirt road,” said Bishop's teammate Ben Sonntag, who finished second, in 3:07:50. “There was a rise, so we couldn't see the trail below and he probably miscalculated it and missed the trail.”

    Bishop barely finished - Juarez had to push him the last few hundred metres - and was carted off in an ambulance a few minutes after finishing. Sonntag, the first rider to reach Bishop, was surprised his Monavie-Cannondale teammate was able to get back on his bike and finish.

    “I was probably 20, 30 seconds behind (Bishop) and I could still see the dust cloud where it happened,” Sonntag said. “He was just lying there, going 'My neck, my neck.' I actually told him he should stay there.”

    Bishop's status for the rest of the Intermontane is in doubt. If he isn't able to start today's stage, Sheppard will take the leader's jersey and have a 20-second lead on Juarez and a lead of 3:42 on Sonntag.

    “There's no good news,” Sheppard said. “There's a lot of camaraderie and it's tight racing. I never wish ill will on anyone.”

    The women's finish also was quirky. Jenn O'Connor of New Zealand crossed the line first in 3:34:40, but she apparently got lost and was going the wrong direction when she arrived.

    The overall women's leader, Sue Butler of Portland, came through the finish line - in the right direction - in 3:38:28, four seconds ahead of Amanda Carey of Victor, Idaho.

    Butler will start today's stage with a 33:50 lead over Sarah Kaufman of Ogden, Utah.
    This is AFTER the mess that was Day 1. Locals Brad Hunter and Rachel Mirvish are out there braving this thing and are sitting fourth overall in Mixed. I hope they're having a better time than this article might imply.

    I'm so glad nogears didn't succeed in talking me into this mess!
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  2. #2
    Evil Jr.
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    Yipes! More from the Western Canada forum:

    Some local ******* just sabotaged the course for today. I guess he doesn't want people on "his" trail. We're waiting for a re-route but are losing the best 30 km of the stage today.
    Apparently the guy wanted to keep "free" in "free-riding" and didn't want the x-c guys riding his trail, which BTW, is on crown land.
    All I have to say is wow.... way to **** up a good thing for the city of Kamloops, the organizers, volunteers, and the riders.
    Welcome to Kamloops!
    There is probably a lot going on that we don't know about. I have heard that the race organizer has burned some bridges with the local riding community, BUT, I wish they had not taken it out on the riders.

    Regardless of the local politics or who's screwing who over, the people who are taking the brunt of it are the racers who came a long way and paid a lot of money. We started 2.5 hours late yesterday, were exposed to more insane heat and most of the riders were lost on the mountain at some point. It's not fun or safe.

    I finished yesterday but am pulling the plug. All five of us are out of the race now, it's been too hot and too much of a **** show. We're hitting Silverstar today instead.
    We bailed too. It was a gong show. Very unsafe and unorganized. Heard that Jeremiah got hurt and people got lost but that's all we know from yesterday. Its really a shame that the riders are taking the brunt of this. We dropped a lot of coinage on this.
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  3. #3
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    I have had 3 friends leave as well and all will ask for full refunds,this is so horrible!
    Last edited by scuttler; 08-01-2009 at 04:38 AM.

  4. #4
    sock puppet
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    Phat Tyred

    admit it!!!



    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster
    Yipes! More from the Western Canada forum:










  5. #5
    Misfit Psycles
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    reports continue to flood in concerning the drama.

    there are several Ontarian's present, a couple blogging too:

    TANYA - Vegan Vagabond
    and
    RACHEL - Sunshine Princess

    if you don't know either, suffice to say both are more then amply qualified, their reports don't bode well for the future.
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  6. #6
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    Upset Bummed.

    This is a bummer.
    Last edited by scuttler; 08-01-2009 at 05:36 PM.

  7. #7
    Misfit Psycles
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    the plot thickens.

    BTW monster...Kelly (scuttler) was the reason I was trying to 'talk you into this'

    I know not Chuck, but when Kelly left so did my plans.
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  8. #8
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    Last edited by scuttler; 08-01-2009 at 05:37 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by scuttler
    check this out:

    http://tracksidenews.blogspot.com/


    this is what I was talking about,not my opinion but that of others...... this is disgusting....these folks came all the way over from the UK....and spent atleast $10K.....the truth is coming out.....why is this not making the papers/websites etc etc? These guys are getting the shaft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!When will Chuck step up and accept some responsibility!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!what do you guys think? I'm not crazy, am I? I'm sorry but this is not right guys!

    It has made the media.

    http://www.kamloopsnews.ca/article/2...ourse-sabotage

    Further impressions from BC.

    http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=124996

    It is now an RCMP investigation.

  10. #10
    @adelorenzo
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    Some of the statements that have been quoted here are mine, so I won't add a lot, other than to say that five of us came all the way from Whitehorse and have been really dissapointed. I would never recommend this race, if it ever does happen again.

    We went to Vernon today and rode Silver Star. Amazing.

    Oh, BTW, Ben Sonntag got a concussion today and Tinker went way off course. Now the local hero Chris Sheppard is leading the race.

  11. #11
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    http://www.velonews.com/article/9623...fter-a-chaotic

    Sabotaged even before the start
    Before the planned, 85km stage even began, it was thrown into chaos. According to organizers, at around 9 pm the night before, Brennan got a call from a volunteer who was helping to mark the course.

    Paul Berry, the owner of local bike shop Spoke n’ Motion and a top-10 finisher, recounted events on the eve of the fateful stage. “Chuck received a call from Matt who was out marking the course. There was a guy up there on a section of the course,” said Berry. “This guy basically said, ‘If you guys mark this course, I’m gonna take it down. And I’m gonna be up here at four in the morning, waiting for you to mark it, and I’m gonna take it down. I’ll do whatever I can to wreck the course,’” related Berry.


    According to Berry, the caller claimed ownership to some of the “Greenstone” trails, where the race was to have included a challenging descent, because he helped build the trails. Berry said the trail is on public land and built on an old motorcycle trail. The race had a permit to hold the event there.

    The Kamloops Daily News reported that local police are investigating vandalism to the course.
    http://www.kamloopsnews.ca/article/2...ourse-sabotage

    A mountain bike rider who built some of the Greenstone trails acknowledged he tore off course markers two weeks ago but said he did nothing to sabotage the course this week.

    Jeff Sykes called himself a passionate mountain biker who is upset Brennan is riding freely on efforts of trail builders on Greenstone Mountain.

    “I rode it (Greenstone Mountain trail) with my girlfriend yesterday,” said Jeff Sykes. “That’s when I saw some guys using it. They didn’t ask us.”

    Sykes said he’s spent eight years on the mountain, building and maintaining trails on Crown land. He was upset when he saw flagging tape there two weeks ago. He said he tore off the tape and knew nothing about the race at the time.

    Then, on Tuesday, when organizers were checking and remarking the course, he accused them of riding for free on his years of backbreaking labour. The area is on Crown land and there are no tenures that allow exclusive use.

    “They’ll have hundreds of people on it and make a big mess,” Sykes said, adding community etiquette puts the onus on Brennan to seek permission to profit from other people’s trail work.

    “I never did anything but remove flagging tape, which is on my trail.”
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  12. #12
    humber river advocate
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    Interesting... things like this seem to play out more often... i wonder if they took the effort to talk to and involve the local builders this could have been prevented...


    Quote:
    Sabotaged even before the start
    Before the planned, 85km stage even began, it was thrown into chaos. According to organizers, at around 9 pm the night before, Brennan got a call from a volunteer who was helping to mark the course.

    Paul Berry, the owner of local bike shop Spoke n’ Motion and a top-10 finisher, recounted events on the eve of the fateful stage. “Chuck received a call from Matt who was out marking the course. There was a guy up there on a section of the course,” said Berry. “This guy basically said, ‘If you guys mark this course, I’m gonna take it down. And I’m gonna be up here at four in the morning, waiting for you to mark it, and I’m gonna take it down. I’ll do whatever I can to wreck the course,’” related Berry.


    According to Berry, the caller claimed ownership to some of the “Greenstone” trails, where the race was to have included a challenging descent, because he helped build the trails. Berry said the trail is on public land and built on an old motorcycle trail. The race had a permit to hold the event there.

    The Kamloops Daily News reported that local police are investigating vandalism to the course.





    Quote:
    A mountain bike rider who built some of the Greenstone trails acknowledged he tore off course markers two weeks ago but said he did nothing to sabotage the course this week.

    Jeff Sykes called himself a passionate mountain biker who is upset Brennan is riding freely on efforts of trail builders on Greenstone Mountain.

    “I rode it (Greenstone Mountain trail) with my girlfriend yesterday,” said Jeff Sykes. “That’s when I saw some guys using it. They didn’t ask us.”

    Sykes said he’s spent eight years on the mountain, building and maintaining trails on Crown land. He was upset when he saw flagging tape there two weeks ago. He said he tore off the tape and knew nothing about the race at the time.

    Then, on Tuesday, when organizers were checking and remarking the course, he accused them of riding for free on his years of backbreaking labour. The area is on Crown land and there are no tenures that allow exclusive use.

    “They’ll have hundreds of people on it and make a big mess,” Sykes said, adding community etiquette puts the onus on Brennan to seek permission to profit from other people’s trail work.

    “I never did anything but remove flagging tape, which is on my trail.”
    Last edited by singlesprocket; 07-31-2009 at 06:00 AM.

  13. #13
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    There was a whiff of this kind of thing at BCBR too.

    On Day 3 (I think) some locals (bored kids?) rerouted the trail after we'd gone through (thankfully) and cost the last 40 riders (or so) an extra hour in the saddle. That morning, we were warned that there was some mischief going on up in the hills and the start was delayed so that the lead moto could clean up the course.

    The course for Day 5 (I think) was shortened by about 7 km when a local land owner withdrew his permission to the let the race through. We had to make a ferry crossing at the end of that stage so it wasn't really missed in the end any how.

    Other than those two incidents however, it was clear that all the local trail associations were super-stoked to have us out on "their" trials. On the North Shore, Vancouver Island, Sunshine Cost and in Squamish, I had a chance to stop and chat with the builders personally who were all on course. They were all really excited to have people from all over the place riding their trails and were eager to hear about all our farvourite features.

    I know Phat Tyred catches a lot of flack on here for defending "his" trails but I find it really hard to relate to that stance. I've always been really excited to have people riding AND racing on trails I've helped build. So odd.

    EDIT: I should add too that a portion of our BCBR entry fees went to support the local trail associations as well. That probably goes a LONG way to making everyone happy.
    Last edited by garage monster; 07-31-2009 at 06:39 AM.
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  14. #14
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    I do find statements made by the guy

    who tore off race signs in BC scary similar to some local Ontario people - calling trails on Crown land "my trails"...

    I do feel the same as you Monster - if I built some trails - I'd be superstocked to see people actually riding them...

    Phat Tyres has a bit more credibility as the weather was threatening to make the race in Horseshoe destructive towards some of the sections of the course, but this character in BC was totally out of line, as the weather was dry as a bone...

    In both cases, actions taken basically boiled down to screwing up the RIDERS, not anyone else... so it is kind of lame that riders take their anger on other riders... Some riders got seriously hurt in BC due to the vandalism... I hope the police gets to the bottom of it and riders recover successfully...

    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster
    There was a whiff of this kind of thing at BCBR too.

    On Day 3 (I think) some locals (bored kids?) rerouted the trail after we'd gone through (thankfully) and cost the last 40 riders (or so) an extra hour in the saddle. That morning, we were warned that there was some mischief going on up in the hills and the start was delayed so that the lead moto could clean up the course.

    The course for Day 5 (I think) was shortened by about 7 km when a local land owner withdrew his permission to the let the race through. We had to make a ferry crossing at the end of that stage so it wasn't really missed in the end any how.

    Other than those two incidents however, it was clear that all the local trail associations were super-stoked to have us out on "their" trials. On the North Shore, Vancouver Island, Sunshine Cost and in Squamish, I had a chance to stop and chat with the builders personally who were all on course. They were all really excited to have people from all over the place riding their trails and were eager to hear about all our farvourite features.

    I know Phat Tyred catches a lot of flack on here for defending "his" trails but I find it really hard to relate to that stance. I've always been really excited to have people riding AND racing on trails I've helped build. So odd.

    EDIT: I should add too that a portion of our BCBR entry fees went to support the local trail associations as well. That probably goes a LONG way to making everyone happy.

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    Agreed. I think its pretty weak when so many fights occur between fellow riders (i.e. trailbuilders vs racers in this case). mountain biking is not a mainstream sport in North America, as opposed to hockey, baseball, football, basketball. If someone wanted to put in a hockey rink, it wouldn't even be questioned. If someone wanted to put in trails, I bet it'd be a totally different battle. My point in that all riders should be working together, and not fighting over something as silly as 'my trails'. If everyone wants to see the sport grow and long term sustainability, then it needs more teamwork and positive promotion.

    Sorry to hear about everyone that had so much invested in this race, and are being disappointed. Glad to hear you're ripping some other trails.

  16. #16
    Misfit Psycles
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    Phat Tyres has a bit more credibility...
    you're right, i don't think anyone is making a comparison between phat and this sort of shite.

    there are those that oppose abortion.
    there are those that murder doctors.

    the troubling thing is that there are ALL THESE PEOPLE, average people, normal working stiffs that have WASTED thousands on this experience.

    not only is it BAD for intermontane but it's bad for ANY first year start-up race...THIS is why people take a "wait and see" attitude.

    i wanted to feel for Chuck - because shite happens with people, between people - I didn't want to believe that it was anything more then a bad break here or there...

    the reports keep rolling in, all bad...sabotage aside...this race seems as if it would be a failure without it...the sabotage may have been a blessing...at least there is the possibility of holding someone financially accountable...in fact i feel for the sabateur (in a round-about way). HE (or SHE) is going to end up being the poster boy for failure here while the rest is white washed.

    Brad and Rachel have now dropped...
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  17. #17
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    IMHO, a lot of the problems are within the organizer's control.

    It's weird, there are many of us who feel like this has been a disaster, but there are still people out there who are having the time of their life. "Greatest race ever" was something I saw on twitter. Good for them, glad they're getting their money's worth.

    Perhaps the biggest dissapointment of all: The trails suck. The much-hyped Kamloops singletrack has been dry, loose, dusty, rutted doubletrack, moto trails, and hiking trails. There has been less than 10 km of what I would consider good MTB singletrack. Even the bad trails back in Whitehorse are better than this.

    We'll keep the XC bikes at home next time and ride our own trails. Next bike trip will be a bike park trip for sure. Still buzzed from yesterday on Silver Star.

  18. #18
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    interesting about silver star... might just have to go there to check it out.

    what i find interesting in these posts is to what degree the "sunk cost effect" plays.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    you're right, i don't think anyone is making a comparison between phat and this sort of shite.

    there are those that oppose abortion.
    there are those that murder doctors.

    the troubling thing is that there are ALL THESE PEOPLE, average people, normal working stiffs that have WASTED thousands on this experience.

    not only is it BAD for intermontane but it's bad for ANY first year start-up race...THIS is why people take a "wait and see" attitude.

    i wanted to feel for Chuck - because shite happens with people, between people - I didn't want to believe that it was anything more then a bad break here or there...

    the reports keep rolling in, all bad...sabotage aside...this race seems as if it would be a failure without it...the sabotage may have been a blessing...at least there is the possibility of holding someone financially accountable...in fact i feel for the sabateur (in a round-about way). HE (or SHE) is going to end up being the poster boy for failure here while the rest is white washed.

    Brad and Rachel have now dropped...
    Actually the problem if race sabotage is far more prevalent then is acknowledged. Ask any course setter and race director how many times it happens. It happens at every single event.

    Though I think it's a bit more prevalent in Ontario. That is simply because most races occur in places like Dundas, Albion, Kelso, and so on. Conservation areas that can be accessed at any point by anyone.

    In regards to the race crew, I suspect that they where understaffed. Because in a ideal situation he would have had 2 people who would have been out to check the course that morning. Especially knowing that threats had been made.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    Some riders got seriously hurt in BC due to the vandalism... I hope the police gets to the bottom of it and riders recover successfully...
    Neither of the Cannondale riders' injuries can be blamed on the vandalism. Jeramiah went off the the trail and injured himself in Kenna Cartwright Park near the end of the race which was on the originally planned route. The trails there are considered to be fairly recreational. Of course if you're flying down a trail and you miss a turn...there are some good drop offs. The other rider was injured the following day. The trails used on day 3 and 4 can be great fun...when you're fresh. They can be challenging and coordination is important.

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    It's getting ugly. Chuck had Kelly, who was watching the race, removed by the police. I don't think Chuck has many bridges left he can burn in Kamloops. Man Kelly, what made you and Dustin go in on this race with Chuck?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gone_riding
    It's getting ugly. Chuck had Kelly, who was watching the race, removed by the police. I don't think Chuck has many bridges left he can burn in Kamloops. Man Kelly, what made you and Dustin go in on this race with Chuck?
    It is really to bad about this. Makes all of kamloops look bad.

    Really there is a wicked XC ride community in Kamloops with lots of decent XC trails.

    If anybody ever recovers from the trama of this race and wants someone to show them some decent XC trails in Kamloops look me up. Just don't come in the summer, July and August are not the months to ride in the loops.

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    Wow. What grounds would Chuck have for doing that to Kelly?

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    Who saw Kelly getting removed and does anyone know why. How many racers were left in this fiasco? How many categories got their prize money that was originally called for. The prize list was the big marketing draw and after the reg refund deadline, the prize money changes. I am wanting to hear from others as it just seems all to weird to believe, I am beginning to feel embarrassed that this event took place in "my" province and with "my" tax dollars. I say this because BCLC is a Gove enity and Tourism Kamloops is still part of BC and gets some funding from the provincial gov (BC).

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN
    Just don't come in the summer, July and August are not the months to ride in the loops.
    It's not so bad here, you just have to ride earlier in the morning. This year has been exceptionally warm. That said, I wouldn't have chosen mid summer to hold this event. The old Stomp loop at Stake Lake is nice since it's in the shade, but you've got to like cross-country. Stake Lake to Inx Lake is also mainly in the shade, but the tail end gets a fair amount of motorbike traffic so not everyone might enjoy the descents but it was fun when I rode it earlier this week (before the race). That Inx Lake to Greenstone and back loop is pretty neat but there is some exposed riding so can get pretty warm.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gone_riding
    It's not so bad here, you just have to ride earlier in the morning. This year has been exceptionally warm. That said, I wouldn't have chosen mid summer to hold this event. The old Stomp loop at Stake Lake is nice since it's in the shade, but you've got to like cross-country. Stake Lake to Inx Lake is also mainly in the shade, but the tail end gets a fair amount of motorbike traffic so not everyone might enjoy the descents but it was fun when I rode it earlier this week (before the race). That Inx Lake to Greenstone and back loop is pretty neat but there is some exposed riding so can get pretty warm.
    I always get out of the loops for july and august. I am hanging out at Bromont right now enjoying the rain.

    Those are all good rides. Speaking of kamloops rides have you been on the new trail that connects the top of Pete Creek to Rio?

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    I have indeed. I found it accidentally when riding with a friend (saw a single set of tracks going there and decided to follow). We were both quite stoked. What's nice is that you can't really tell it's there from either end. There's a whole bunch of stuff I've only "discovered" this year upper and lower PC, the one that C built coming up to the power line, blood bag, honeycomb. I need to ride more often on that side.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by gone_riding
    I have indeed. I found it accidentally when riding with a friend (saw a single set of tracks going there and decided to follow). We were both quite stoked. What's nice is that you can't really tell it's there from either end. There's a whole bunch of stuff I've only "discovered" this year upper and lower PC, the one that C built coming up to the power line, blood bag, honeycomb. I need to ride more often on that side.
    Wait until the fall. There is some significant trail work projects on the horizon. All on that side of town though.

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    Forgot to add. Tinker didn't start the day today. He went off course yesterday so didn't bother. Someone said he went through a gate that was normally locked. It had been opened for some road work. That said. I can't recall a gate on the Inx Lake trail. So either he was already off course or it was on the return trip to town. So Chris is the overall winner. Paul Berry was doing well after 4 stages but wore a new pair of shorts on stage 4 with a chamois that shredded his butt so much that he has difficulty sitting. Therefore he didn't start the final stage. It's too bad, he put in a lot of work for that race. Chuck owes him big time.

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    WOW!!!
    After all that has happened this summer does anyone want to admit that MTB races should be held at places that are suited for it? I still see that people feel that running a race over ANY singletrack is just fine and dandy. Everyone should welcome events like this. There is a problem here and it is not with the attitude of the builders. People are pissed that they spent a lot of money…try having years of work wrecked. I am not looking for a fight, it finds me, but you people who support this stuff with your money should really have an open discussion here and now about the trail impacts you have during a race!!!
    At the Hardwood 8 hour… did you notice any difference between the Hardwood trails and the Wilderness side of the road?

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    Well, if I may quote the racer who finished second, can't remember which country he hails from, yesterday's course was held on "real mountain biking trails". This guy is an excellent bike handler which allowed him to be very competitive. Some of the racers aren't used to that. Tinker even said that he was amazed on how fast some riders rode down some of the descents this week. There's nothing wrong with having courses like that except that potential participants need to know in case it's not the kind of course they want. Some riders prefer non technical trails and others otherwise.

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    Yeah make Chuck answer to the big guys
    Last edited by kamloopslocalrider; 07-31-2009 at 08:31 PM.

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    Just to let everyone know we had a very big wind storm a couple days before, and everyone in Kamloops knows after a night like that ( the wind) your gonna need to clear the trails on greenstone. Chuck should have known better instead, he is trying to pass the buck of his failing race due to poor organization on to Jeff who is a respected member of the mountain bike community here in Kamloops. I suggest people start asking locals how they feel about Brennan. He has done nothing but burn bridges in the planning of this race for his own finacial gain. Greed creates monster with no compasion or reason.
    Everyone needs to lay off Jeff that is for sure. Instead maybe they should all be angry at the person who is truly responsable Chuck Brennan

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    "Tinker even said that he was amazed on how fast some riders rode down some of the descents this week"
    I have no idea what happened out there...but there was a race here on smaller hills and after the race we had lots of skid marks, trail widening and braking ruts. These trails did not have that before, but after one day they appeared.
    Racing on trails is a whole different animal then recreational riding and should be treated as such.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phat Tyred
    WOW!!!
    After all that has happened this summer does anyone want to admit that MTB races should be held at places that are suited for it? I still see that people feel that running a race over ANY singletrack is just fine and dandy. Everyone should welcome events like this. There is a problem here and it is not with the attitude of the builders. People are pissed that they spent a lot of money…try having years of work wrecked. I am not looking for a fight, it finds me, but you people who support this stuff with your money should really have an open discussion here and now about the trail impacts you have during a race!!!
    At the Hardwood 8 hour… did you notice any difference between the Hardwood trails and the Wilderness side of the road?
    You know, if you left it alone and periodically- meaning once and awhile made a comment you would be more believeable. Right now you are sounding way to much like one of those "Born Again" religious nut jobs who out to save everyone.
    Last edited by Enduramil; 07-31-2009 at 08:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phat Tyred
    I got it all together, but I forgot where I put it.
    I think Enduramil just told you where to put it. (see below)
    Sorry, I couldn't resist.
    By the way, Tinker was seen walking with a fishing rod before the race so I think we can guess what he was doing while others were racing.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phat Tyred
    Racing on trails is a whole different animal then recreational riding and should be treated as such.
    Can't say that I agree. Sometimes I go faster on sections on a casual ride, sometimes I go quicker on sections during a race. YMMV.

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    There is a second version of this "sabotage" story and all the finger pointing at Jeff Sykes. I have recently heard from someone speaking with Jeff that he wasn't up on Greenstone that evening and as a matter of a fact his chain saw was in the shop so the accusation he was ruining the trail proved to be far from the truth. He has been dealing with the police for a few days and it sounds like it was wrapped up with him explaining he had taken the tape down over a week before and he had contacted the organizer prior to that. Apparently when asked if the race would be willing to fix the trail once the race was through, the head organizer laughed at Jeff. So it sounds like there is a bit more to this story then may meet the eye.

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    I've also heard that Jeff asked if he could be reimbursed for the gas his chainsaw used when he cleared the trail this spring (not an unreasonable request since Chuck would have had to do it). Chuck refused. So I have a feeling that it may not have been so much as stopping a race but rather stopping Chuck's race. Of course this is third hand information.

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    So sorry guys.....you guys are right.....I was and am wrong......nothing wrong with racing.....call me out again and I will just shut up....do not talk trail impact......racing is so cool for every location......we all know MTBing depends on racing......good WORK guys

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    I drove all the way out from Squamish early this morning to offer what support I could....I was told to go sit in the parking lot away from the start/finish line, I sat on my cooler full of cold pops,water etc and was continually messed with and my car was even ticketed - a $50 ticket! I was cheering people on, meeting friends old and new and offering my support and not bothering anyone...most of the people racing are my friends or people I know through the sport and they were all coming up to me to talk about everything - no harm in that, we still live in a democracy right?...I followed all the stuff the cops said and obeyed, it was a huge kick in the balls and I have never been so humiliated.....after working on trying to make this event roll properly for a couple of years - the end result was not what it could have been. Kamloops is rad place to ride and deserves better, I wish I could have been a part of getting it up where it belongs with all the bikers in town. Squamish is home now for me and my wife and I wish the 'loops all the best and the riders too.Adios.

  42. #42
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    Ya, we get the idea. Chuck is a bad organizer...Chuck is to blame...It wasn't Jeff Sykes...

    The fact remains that someone in the Kamloops riding community is an unbelievable tool for contributing to the poor experience of many riders who had travelled long distances and incurred major expenses, probably didn't know any of the local politics, and just thought that it sounded great to come and enjoy Kamloops' local trails for a few days. Consequences for Chuck are another matter altogether. The saboteur(s) still deserve to get the book thrown at them, and I hope the RCMP manages to round them up somehow.

    BTW, sorry to both you Kelly and Dustin about the way this went down for your roles on the event management team a few months back. That has to be hard to stomach.

    Quote Originally Posted by KamloopsLocal
    There is a second version of this "sabotage" story and all the finger pointing at Jeff Sykes. I have recently heard from someone speaking with Jeff that he wasn't up on Greenstone that evening and as a matter of a fact his chain saw was in the shop so the accusation he was ruining the trail proved to be far from the truth. He has been dealing with the police for a few days and it sounds like it was wrapped up with him explaining he had taken the tape down over a week before and he had contacted the organizer prior to that. Apparently when asked if the race would be willing to fix the trail once the race was through, the head organizer laughed at Jeff. So it sounds like there is a bit more to this story then may meet the eye.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phat Tyred
    So sorry guys.....you guys are right.....I was and am wrong......nothing wrong with racing.....call me out again and I will just shut up....do not talk trail impact......racing is so cool for every location......we all know MTBing depends on racing......good WORK guys
    OK, I'm calling you out again so that you can shut up now as per your promise above. Certainly, there are extreme circumstances where racing is not appropriate. I just find it laughable that you consider your situation from the Horseshoe marathon to fall under the category of extreme circumstances. As an organizer myself, I've already stated that I would have just walked away from a scenario where a current and active trailbuilder wouldn't give their blessing to holding an event on the trails they helped to build and maintain. At the same time, I would have arranged a sirt down beforehand with the fully deserved expectation that they would participate in discussions in good faith to find a compromise and agree on a set of terms everyone could live with that would allow the event to be take place, considering that it's not their land and the landowner had already given permission.

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    I hope no one interpreted my post as not agreeing with racing or that I was in support of ruining races for racers who spent $1 000 to come here.
    What I was trying to mention was that perhaps the fact presented about Jeff staying the night and boobie trapping trails weren't actually confirmed and he is seeking a public apology. Also living here I heard an endless amount of talk about leaving a trail legacy with the Intermontane Challenge. Laughing at a trail builder when asked if the Intermontane was willing to help fix the trail when the race was over doesn't sound like a legacy to me.

  45. #45
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    you are making too much sense now...

    you are not leaving him any space to come back with something negative...

    I don't see any issues with the way you are approaching race organization. I certainly hope that these simple rules are adhered to as much as possible... Trail builders' voice should be heard and if reasonable - worked with... However, I can not agree with any hostile action by trailbuilders that would put a race in jeopardy, whatsoever.

    I am also not giving race organizers a blank check - they have to live with unwritten rules of trying to leave the trail in as good condition as possible - which, yes, includes removing all race signs and trash... Damage to the trails should be mitigated, and if it is obvious that the race may cause irreparable damage to the trail system - I would support canceling or re-routing the race...

    But let's be reasonable and let's work with each other, not against each other... That is the only way this sport will be sustainable...



    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    OK, I'm calling you out again so that you can shut up now as per your promise above. Certainly, there are extreme circumstances where racing is not appropriate. I just find it laughable that you consider your situation from the Horseshoe marathon to fall under the category of extreme circumstances. As an organizer myself, I've already stated that I would have just walked away from a scenario where a current and active trailbuilder wouldn't give their blessing to holding an event on the trails they helped to build and maintain. At the same time, I would have arranged a sirt down beforehand with the fully deserved expectation that they would participate in discussions in good faith to find a compromise and agree on a set of terms everyone could live with that would allow the event to be take place, considering that it's not their land and the landowner had already given permission.

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    Personally I feel sorry for the riders and the race organizers.

    As an organizer there are certain risks associated with any mountain bike stage race and course vandalism is certainly one of them. We are lucky that with Crank most of the trail systems that are very complicated are on private land that we rent and the public trail systems are quite straight forward.... plus we put a lot of resources into double checking marking.

    There is NO excuse for the course vandalism whatsoever as it is putting the racer's safety in jeopardy. Whether the vandal has a point or not, does not give them the right to act criminally. If I was the organizer I would go after them personally for the many 100s of thousands of dollars in damage they caused, then I'd be able to return the funds to the participants.

    As for race organizers being diligent in cleaning up after themselves, for sure, but we still should understand that over 100s of km of racing the organizer may miss the odd thing. Overall the organizer should leave the venue with more positive than negative, put money into new trails and get out there to maintain and put resources back into the trail system or venue.

    This event sounds like it no longer has a future. Unfortunate for everyone, it sound like it had potential.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by KamloopsLocal
    I hope no one interpreted my post as not agreeing with racing or that I was in support of ruining races for racers who spent $1 000 to come here.
    $1,000 ??? That's the entry fee. What about the people who travelled from other continents, incurred signficant travel expenses, and probably used a large chunk of their annual vacation time to do so? These are people are going to go home and report that Kamloops and its residents - between the organizer and the unknown vandal(s) - are the armpit of the world. You know that's not true, I know that's not true (I have lots of buds in Kamloops who are solid folks) but I wouldn't consider it unfounded for people to leave with that opinion after this fiasco. Nice job by those who helped to create this international impression of Kamloops, B.C., and Canada. I'm sure that's what Kamloops Tourism had in mind when investing in this event to help bring new economic actvity to the area.

    Quote Originally Posted by KamloopsLocal
    What I was trying to mention was that perhaps the fact presented about Jeff staying the night and boobie trapping trails weren't actually confirmed and he is seeking a public apology.
    That's very unfortunate if Jeff is being falsely accused of the tampering (I don't kow the truth, and have no comment) but the readership of this Eastern Canada forum is probably a couple of hundred people, the vast majority of whom don't know and will never meet Jeff. If you want to campaign for Jeff's innocence, maybe start with the tens of thousands of Kamloops locals who have read about it in their local news and are more likely to actually come into contact with Jeff?

    What, if anything, is the local Kamloops riding community doing to "police" itself in this matter and help the RCMP in its investigation? Someone must know something. Not trying to bag on you too badly, just that it seems like your priorities are;

    1. Absolve Jeff.
    2. Crucify Chuck.
    ...
    99. Achieve some resolution for the riders.

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    I travel through Canada for work and I usually try to take my bike with me, I can see now that when I do have to visit Kamloops, I'll leave the bike at home. This whole thing has left a bad impression on the riding community there and I am not sure that i would want my tires to ride through that kind of mud.

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    Jeff has already been absolved by the RCMP. He has an alibi for the morning of the "sabotage".
    I hope the local papers print a retraction at some point but it seems doubtful

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phat Tyred
    So sorry guys.....you guys are right.....I was and am wrong......nothing wrong with racing.....call me out again and I will just shut up....do not talk trail impact......racing is so cool for every location......we all know MTBing depends on racing......good WORK guys
    EDIT (I regret this before posting, but I blame the BEER and RUM)

    At least you admit you were wrong above.
    I hope that the organizer of any event in Simcoe County would not have found out about YOUR favorite trails because of this:

    http://web.archive.org/web/200306051...ity/wander.asp

    Surprisingly I found this link quite close to the thread:

    http://trails.mtbr.com/cat/trails-ar...3_4528crx.aspx

    here is another one:

    http://www.jaggedpath.com/index.php?...viewtopic&t=25

    And I do hope that Phat was involved in this to protect HIS trails:

    http://ccforums.ipbhost.com/index.ph...rt=#entry12629

    Dam BEER courage.

    Stosh

    PS. Phat. - Thank you for building, well maybe just advertising, every (most? some of the?) trails everywhere that I may ride or run upon in the Simcoe County area. Heck if it was not for your self sacrifice I would not have to deal with motorcycles or horses or maybe even logging on the County of Simcoes property.
    If you happen to see my lungs back there, tell them I've gone on ahead.

  51. #51
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    Stosh.... what does THAT have to do with Intermontane?

    the whole bunch of ya are getting too much direct sunlight...in combination with beer and/or rum?

    this Eastern Canada topic is a mess.
    "an inch an hour...two feet per day..."

  52. #52
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    This is posted in the Western Canada section of MTBR plus here at NSMB.com the more local forum.

    http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=124996

    Please note the section mentioning the collapse of the organizing commitee.

    We are just back from racing the Intermontane Challenge all safe and sound, but with the exception of being fully baked, roasted and barbequed (the temperature in the clay banks on the north side of town was ~45C).

    Lots of event bashing on the interweb right now. Reading between the lines, my understanding is that a lot of it has to do with the break up of the organizer partnership between Chuck, Kelly and Dustin. Kelly and Dustin tried to fire Chuck, but because of a shot gun clause in their business contract, Chuck was able to buy out and fire Kelly and Dustin. Friends of Kelly and Dustin seem eager to shout that the event was a failure (it wasn't) and that Chuck has burnt all his bridges (I would say several but not all) and that he is disorganized (true).

    The race had advertised $10,000 certified cheques to each of the men's and women's open winners and a $60,000 prize list. The break down of the $60,000 was not published until days before the start of the race. The majority of the remaining $40,000 consisted of free entry to next year, free accommodation and merchandise. Many elite racer's were furious and expected cash prizes paid deeper (it seems that many did not think they were capable of winning but still wanted payment for placing further back, because they were ELITE). On Day 0, Chuck quickly dipped into his own pocket and said that 2nd man and women would each get $3000 and 3rd would get $1000. Chuck seemed to be doing a lot of last minute damage control all week and never had the chance to get back fully in control. The loudest whiners seemed to be in control of the direction of the race. During the Day 0 meeting, different racers kept asking the same questions over and over again, even though another racer had just the minute before asked the same question, like "where is the start line", "does the mileage on the map start with zero" (it seems that many of these ELITE racers are good at listening to themselves talk but not listening to other people).

    Course marking was adequate for an adventure race (as good as BC Bike Race in the first year and better than La Ruta). The map provided ahead of time was excellent, and showed air photo, topographic landmark, drainage and contour info, with a course profile and distances (lots of complaining about the published distances though, because some racers' gps or bike computers did not agree with the map (I personally think relying on distance measurements for mountain biking is stupid - potentially deadly stupid in the wilderness - if a map says there is a feed zone at 20 km after you cross the top of a mountain, and you get to 20km on your gps and you have not crossed the top of the mountain or reached the feed zone, you better believe the landscape not your fancy schmancy uber expensive electronic gizmoid)). Any way, during a later racer meeting a English/New Zealand couple was *****ing that since the race had tempted the ELITEs to come to try to win $10,000, they expected an elite level of race organization, that the course should be marked like a marathon, and that an ELITE women racer shouldn't be expected to read a map (rumours are that they are threatening to sue the organizer for the loss of potential prize money).

    There were enough feed zones and water even for the people taking two to three times longer than the winners (Many faster in the pack riders blew though early feed zones and later complained when they ran out of water. Many also were too vain and ELITE fashion conscious to wear a camelbak).

    We had fun, and would have liked more single track and less gravel road/doubletrack, but don't consider the event a failure. The other event staff were very professional and wonderful. The volunteers were cheerful and great. The trails we did see were fun. The scenery and community are fantastic. I hope that the Intermontane Challenge gets a second chance, and that the bridges are mended between the local trail riding/building community.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Payer
    Stosh.... what does THAT have to do with Intermontane?

    the whole bunch of ya are getting too much direct sunlight...in combination with beer and/or rum?

    this Eastern Canada topic is a mess.
    No my Sunlight has been spotty in the trees because for the first time in days it has been dry to ride, and run.

    Sorry I missed the point about the obvious connection that I saw:

    a local voicing his complaints about a race on 'his' trails.

    and the Field of Dreams tag line: "If you build it, they will come."

    Once we cut the first trail someone will follow it, weather it was a shortcut across a switchback or 2-3 km of non IMBA standard singletrack. I wonder how long it takes for word to get out from someones 'first' ride, until the trails becomes overused.

    Intermontane sounds like the current extreme example of local protection. The similar incidents around our local area, a few not bike related, have just had lesser repercussions. Less chance on injury also I hope. Frankly I hope there were no injuries that can be traced back to the unofficial trail rerouting.

    I wonder how much traffic from the maps on that webpage back in 2004 Phat is wishing was never posted. It would really be depressing to think that those pages are what brought the race organizers to his neck of the woods.

    Was the Kamloops builder a victim of his own success? Maybe he should of picked up his bike more and chosen to not ride his hoe and Pulaski on the public lands he loves.

    Of the posters here on Eastern Canada talking about trails to drum up riders I wonder if Black Canoe Dog has run into any problems because of the increased ridership on public trails. Mind you he is probably in arguably the best position because the vast majority of his local trails are 'ROCK' armoured. Its those wet bits in between that will need the most care and some form of Wide or Double Wide ladder crossing real soon, considering those are the only drains between the ponds.

    But how long till an organizer approaches the MNR about a race at the Barrens CR?

    Stosh, I wish I had of went for a ride instead.

    PS: Hey Phat Tyred Thanks for the PM. Good guess I ate Chicken yesterday, Tuna too. No rat though. As for Lost I like to Orienteer so I am usually a little lost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phat Tyred
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    Do you know what I am most proud of? The fact that I will stand by my ideas without the need for dirty politics or uderhanded means. My dad rasied me to stand up for and to what I believe in no matter what “groups” of people say or do.

    “No new trails in 10 years” “Heck if it was not for your self sacrifice I would not have to deal with motorcycles or horses or maybe even logging on the County of Simcoes property”

    You are smarter then these false statements….so why would you post them?.

    If you had any form of balls or self worth you would say what you really mean and have the guts to
    stand by it. Instead you do this fanning of the flames thing and tell yourself that by doing so you are winning. It must be hard to swallow the fact that this uneducated county boy has beaten your educated mind time and time again. I smelled a rat in stosh a long time ago and understand why you hikers are disgruntled…but have the balls to stand up for what you believe in. This backdoor fanning is very below what you should be capable of. There are many people in the MTB community that would like to join with hiking groups and have better trails from that partnership. But when people do not have the self worth to voice their REAL thoughts, they are not worth the effort to be involved with.

    Signed
    __________________
    I got it all together, but I forgot where I put it.
    I am not a 'you hikers' and have never been Postal enough to be disgruntled.

    I would love to be able to present, or at least be part of, a united 'NON motorized' front to the MNR and other land owners to save a lot of the public trails, land and water, from being loved to the point of overuse.

    Maybe it is the way we are reading each others posts, but I have very few problems sharing trails anywhere with other users. I would sooner stop to let people by and say a hello or call of "give it Hill" to encourage a climber. My hiking is Orienteering, 'off' trail in places like Killarney or Algonquin.

    Anyway you WIN, I will take my "educated mind" and 'balls' out for a swim or ride or run and leave you alone.

    Otherwise The next p.m. from you WILL be a request to help fix damage on one of our local 'advertised' trails. I will then do my best to fit in any requst for a clean up of OUR trails or for a friendly ride, or would you like me to sell my poser 29" '03 Fisher X-Cal?

    Michael, I wish I had of went for a ride instead.
    Last edited by Stosh (Canada); 08-03-2009 at 07:06 AM.
    If you happen to see my lungs back there, tell them I've gone on ahead.

  54. #54
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    Stosh and Phat, take it outside.
    All problems in mountain biking can be solved by going faster, except the ones that are caused by going too fast.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkheadedbug
    Stosh and Phat, take it outside.
    Phat keeps taking it to PM and people keep posting his PMs on here, so perhaps Stosh should think more before he posts. I know I don't care about other people's PMs or their weird fixation about getting in the last word whether it be via PM or hijacking a thread about an endurance race in Western Canada in the Eastern Canada forum.

    Anyway, I wish I could go riding today because the weather looks beautiful outside.

  56. #56
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    Test of Metal Press Release – August 4, 2009

    Test of Metal offers free entry to Intermontane racers

    Squamish, B.C. – Organizers of the Test of Metal group of races in Squamish have announced that they are offering free entry into any one of their events in 2010 to racers of this year's Intermontane Challenge in Kamloops.

    The 15th annual North Shore Credit Union Test of Metal (www.testofmetal.com) will be held June 19, 2010 on its world-renowned 67-kilometer point-to-point course with over 1,200 meters of climbing and 35 kilometers of single-track. The Test of Metal is considered to be the most successful cross-country mountain bike in Canada and has sold out for the last 12 years.

    With the popularity of the Test of Metal and the amazing amount and variety of Squamish single-track, Test of Metal created two spin-off races, the Gearjammer and the Orecrusher.

    The 8th annual Gearjammer (www.gearjammer.ca), presented by G. Stewart Kerr Ltd., will be held July 24, 2010 on an unrelenting 52-kilometer point-to-point course, with the vast majority of it on some of the most challenging cross-country single-track in the Squamish area.

    The 3rd annual Orecrusher (www.orecrusher.com) will be held May 15, 2010 on a multi-lap classic cross-country course through the Cheekye Fan single-track trails of Squamish.

    With racers at the recent Intermontane Challenge in Kamloops subjected to some unfortunate logistical problems, Test of Metal wants to do its part to promote mountain bike tourism in British Columbia and help ensure that racers from around the world continue to return to this province for the great riding that it offers.

    “In the spirit of goodwill, we will offer Intermontane racers a free entry to one of our races. We want all mountain bike races in B.C. to succeed and we just wanted to do our part to keep racers returning to the great mountain bike events that are held across the province,” said Test of Metal race director Cliff Miller.

    Test of Metal Inc. is a not-for-profit society run by volunteers, and any proceeds from its races are returned to the community through charitable donations. Since its inception, Test of Metal has donated more than $125,000 to community organizations and events.

    Intermontane racers who want to accept this invitation to participate in one of three Test of Metal races are asked to respond to signup@testofmetal.com before December 1, 2009, indicating which race they want to enter.

    - 30 -

    For more information, please contact Cliff Miller at testofmetal@shaw.ca.

  57. #57
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    Cheers to Test of Metal.

    while I'm sure many of the unlocals won't be (financially) able to make the return trip, this is a sentiment that proves (mostly) the mountain biking community is a solid bunch.
    Expert of the Internet.
    BECAUSE I SAID SO

  58. #58
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    Ooh, that's a very generous offer! Day 6 of BCBR apparently had a lot of the Test of Metal course in it and it was definitely the most "complete" day of the race. Almost makes me wish I had done Intermontane...
    Please enjoy seeing this terrible collection of me - something wonderful is about to happy.

  59. #59
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    That is real nice.

    But does this mean Intermontane is done.

    Or will it try and regroup and fix this years problems for another go?

    Stosh
    If you happen to see my lungs back there, tell them I've gone on ahead.

  60. #60
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    THANKS SO MUCH CLIFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Now that's true BC spirit - Squamish style!

    The Test is awesome, there were around 900 racers this year, thousands of spectators(the feed zone had people dressed up in costumes and stuff - there were atleast 200-300 there alone!), a great vibe and real fun, grass roots atmosphere...a real electricity in the air! Anyone coming out should plan for a few days before and after to check out more trails....plus make time to drink some beer at my house....my wife and I will put any racers who are coming out up at our place no probs and take good care of them. I would love nothing more than doing a pre-ride of the course to show people the good lines and cool spots...we're already organizing feed zone support for the racers and have a year to plan the party....anyone of the IC racers interested in taking Cliff up on his generous offer please contact him at testofmetal@shaw.ca - keep it rollin' everybody!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  61. #61
    sock puppet
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    yep, I was truly speechless

    when I read the post... Way to go Test of Metal. I think I will pull my strings on the west side in order to get my name on the starting list for the next year. Can we have a more significant Ontario contingent maybe???

    Again, way to go Test of Metal. You are all a bunch of stand up people.

    RESPECT!!!



    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    Cheers to Test of Metal.

    while I'm sure many of the unlocals won't be (financially) able to make the return trip, this is a sentiment that proves (mostly) the mountain biking community is a solid bunch.

  62. #62
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    Ontario Riders at the Test of Metal???

    Ontario Riders are ALWAYS welcome in Squamish. As it is, most of the town is inhabited by people from Ontario or Quebec and of course, the Saskatchewanians. Not so sure about those Albertans as I am sure they don't like to admit that is where they are from...........

  63. #63
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    I just had to say, Phats posts are on my ignore list, so the only time I see them is when people quote them.

    But there is an eerily similar thought process to his and whomever sabotaged that race.
    Its one thing to have an opinion. When you take it to the extreme its entirely different.

    Its too bad, he might have some good ideas, but lots will never know because he must be the most ignored poster on Eastern Canada.
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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbgobie
    I just had to say, Phats posts are on my ignore list, so the only time I see them is when people quote them.

    But there is an eerily similar thought process to his and whomever sabotaged that race.
    Its one thing to have an opinion. When you take it to the extreme its entirely different.

    Its too bad, he might have some good ideas, but lots will never know because he must be the most ignored poster on Eastern Canada.
    I also am a big fan of having my internet filtered for me to save me from hearing stuff that I do not like to hear, but I just choose to use a Chinese proxy server and let the People's Republic of China handle the censorship systems for me.... just lazy I guess. Anyway, I am looking forward to the day that the People's Republic of China plans a race on the non-race ready trail in the area and he 'rips the Chinese government a new one' and they add him to the list to neutralize critical online opinion...until then I will be forced to scroll past his posts.

    I must say..he certainly is a popular chap. I am concerned that after they remove everything Phat has to say and what everyone has to say about Phat Tyred that there will be nothing left in the Eastern Canada forum....then how will I continue to get my news about Western Canada races?

    sorry for wasting MORE of everyone's time. I had a few minutes to kill
    "an inch an hour...two feet per day..."

  65. #65
    No. Just No.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Payer
    I also am a big fan of having my internet filtered for me to save me from hearing stuff that I do not like to hear, but I just choose to use a Chinese proxy server and let the People's Republic of China handle the censorship systems for me.... just lazy I guess. Anyway, I am looking forward to the day that the People's Republic of China plans a race on the non-race ready trail in the area and he 'rips the Chinese government a new one' and they add him to the list to neutralize critical online opinion...until then I will be forced to scroll past his posts.
    Comparing instituionalized censorship to the free choice of individuals to ignore certain content is nonsensical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Payer
    I must say..he certainly is a popular chap. I am concerned that after they remove everything Phat has to say and what everyone has to say about Phat Tyred that there will be nothing left in the Eastern Canada forum....then how will I continue to get my news about Western Canada races?
    Many members of this forum participate in events outside of the boundaries of Eastern Canada, or would probably like to do so if the opportunity presented itself. As succh, they`ve probably gained a fair sense of the benefits of more global outlook of mountain bikers and their respective trail networks, rather than NIMBY attitudes.

  66. #66
    Evil Jr.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Payer
    Anyway, I am looking forward to the day that the People's Republic of China plans a race on the non-race ready trail in the area and he 'rips the Chinese government a new one' and they add him to the list to neutralize critical online opinion...until then I will be forced to scroll past his posts.


    This just in: Chengyuan Ren considers competing in next year's Ontario Marathon Series, especially the one at Horseshoe...

    (Geez, way to hijack my Intermontane thread guys! Why does every thread end in tears these days? )
    Please enjoy seeing this terrible collection of me - something wonderful is about to happy.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    Comparing instituionalized censorship to the free choice of individuals to ignore certain content is nonsensical.
    you bet.

    Many members of this forum participate in events outside of the boundaries of Eastern Canada, or would probably like to do so if the opportunity presented itself. As succh, they`ve probably gained a fair sense of the benefits of more global outlook of mountain bikers and their respective trail networks, rather than NIMBY attitudes.
    point taken. I for example, have gained a greater sense that Phat Tyred is not alone after all and that simply barging in and racing on trail systems designed and developed by others that did not intend it or even get consulted about it, even on public land, is frowned upon across this great country of ours.


    the 3 or 4 non-racers in this topic just want the rest to understand our opinions on the subject and not simply dismiss us as extremist, compare us to saboteurs, block all our posts or call us sucky babies (which hurts me the most). Our opinion differs from the vocal majority, but as we all know in this great country even the minorities should be heard and respected.


    race at 'race venues' !!

    viva Phat Tyred!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster

    (Geez, way to hijack my Intermontane thread guys! Why does every thread end in tears these days? )
    sorry g-monster, but why would this tread be any different? just having some fun and had to get in my shots before I am blocked too.

    and very cool tact taken by the Test of Metal folks

    now let me get back to work....
    I will not highjack any more threads to further my own agendas
    I will not highjack any more threads to further my own agendas
    I will not highjack any more threads to further my own agendas
    I will not highjack any more threads to further my own agendas
    I will not highjack any more threads to further my own agendas
    I will not highjack any more threads to further my own agendas
    I will not highjack any more threads to further my own agendas
    ...only another 93 to go.
    "an inch an hour...two feet per day..."

  68. #68
    Misfit Psycles
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    Rebecca Tomawicki is getting up to speed on her blog...

    On the positive side, I have seen some of the most generous acts of human kindness at Intermontane while the madness has been raging all around. It's been an amazing 180 degree difference of the best and worst. Chris Sheppard (who took the win in the mens category) sat with Ben O#@%^ for thirty minutes during yesterday's stage when Ben wrecked and severely concussed himself on a fire road. Thirty whole minutes. Ten grand on the table, and CS told Tinker (who was riding with them) to call for help and then go on ahead, while CS waited for medics to come. Tonight he collected his check, hung out for a bit, and said he was headed out to go play a game of Scrabble with the family. I think I'm in love.
    Jonathan Nutbrown broke his derailluer on the first day and walked the majority of the 87k stage, smiling and joking with other riders. Then at the end of that walk/ride, his right pedal broke, so that he couldn't even coast down techy sections. He helped countless people with mechanical issues on subsequent days and ended up being some sort of trail angel.
    Amanda Carey and Sarah Kaufman (2nd and 3rd, respectively) decided to combine their prize money and split it evenly, to help compensate for the unjust nature of the race. Lyne Bessette gave her runner up prize to DFL.

    Intermontane--- I've come away with enough stories to keep me writing for weeks, and while my faith in mountain bike racing may be slightly scarred, my faith in humanity has been somewhat boosted.
    ...proving again that (mtb) cyclists are generally, for the most part, usually, kindred spirits.

    how apropos.

    BTW Bill, the IGNORE feature is not intended to act as CENSORSHIP. used appropriately it should LESSEN hostilities in this forum.
    lets face it, we aren't LISTENING to one another anyway. as such, relatively MINOR points of disagreement were turning into personal attacks and juvenilia.

    i havent 'fought' with phat or sproket since...
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  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    BTW Bill, the IGNORE feature is not intended to act as CENSORSHIP. used appropriately it should LESSEN hostilities in this forum.
    lets face it, we aren't LISTENING to one another anyway. as such, relatively MINOR points of disagreement were turning into personal attacks and juvenilia.

    i havent 'fought' with phat or sproket since...
    I was forced to hone my IGNORE feature in the real world since I could not battle with every yahoo that I met outside of an online forum.... you know, in the real world.

    I suppose if ignoring dudes ain't working for you, you could use the programmatic IGNORE feature...when in an online forum. I am just concerned that certain individuals might come to rely on the IGNORE feature and loose their ability to cope with A-holes the real world.... like how I lost my ability to spell when away from the keyboard.

    Oh well, should not be my concern I suppose and I have wandered into a place I had no intention of going and I am clearly not learning my 'no highjack' lesson. I feel shame.
    "an inch an hour...two feet per day..."

  70. #70
    No. Just No.
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    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster
    This just in: Chengyuan Ren considers competing in next year's Ontario Marathon Series, especially the one at Horseshoe...
    Hey don't laugh too quickly at this one. Ren kicked my butt at the Hardwood Hills Canada Cup a couple of years ago (assuming she could have held her pace for the extra lap from in race), at which time the whole PRC women's team was training for the week at Hardwood while in the country for the Quebec round(s) of the world cup.

  71. #71
    humber river advocate
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere

    BTW Bill, the IGNORE feature is not intended to act as CENSORSHIP. used appropriately it should LESSEN hostilities in this forum.
    lets face it, we aren't LISTENING to one another anyway. as such, relatively MINOR points of disagreement were turning into personal attacks and juvenilia.

    i havent 'fought' with phat or sproket since...
    now that sounds like a personal attack, hmmmm...

  72. #72
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    Now for some positive Thompson Country riding.

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EisON0jlI1g&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EisON0jlI1g&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ky4Ykt0Gy2U&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ky4Ykt0Gy2U&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

  73. #73
    humber river advocate
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    wicked old school vids
    broadcasting from
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    build trail!

  74. #74
    Evil Jr.
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    Wow, those bikes seem pretty quaint when you compare them with



    Wade Simmons FTW!
    Please enjoy seeing this terrible collection of me - something wonderful is about to happy.

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