More than a little slow
grease, loctite, or anti sieze ?
Which do you think would be the best option for a press fit headset?
Normally I would just use anti seize, but yesterday I started to wonder if loctite would work and if indeed it might not be better.
That's the problem with this biking stuff, there's too much for my little brain to think about.
Grease, loctite, and anti-sieze all have different purposes. Loctite and anti-sieze in fact have the exact opposite purpose. One essentially glues threads together, such as a nut and bolt so it won't come apart. The other helps ensure the threads don't get stuck together for ease of disassembly later. Grease is to help two objects pressed against each other to move more freely by reducing friction, such as bearings in a wheel assembly.
Can't say I've press fit headsets so I don't know, but that should give you the info you need to determine which one is right for the job.
I have used loctite bearing retaining compound on pivot bearings that were no longer a press fit (ie damaged/worn bore), but I don't see any reason to use it unless you have reason to believe the press fit is insufficient or you want to make life difficult later on... If by loctite you mean one of their threadlocker products, they don't belong here.
----Sent via smoke signals----
Grease or nothing.
The Park website doesn't show anything used - unless you have a loose fit, then use Loctite. Others say grease to ease installation. So likely doesn't matter but I would think a bit of grease would help pressing them in.
Loctite 641 is common for aluminum parts that can't be heated to release. The retaining compound will fill the gaps and augment the contact between the headtube and pressed in cups. The liquid cures to form a plastic plug, effectively locking the parts together...
PM me for more info if you need....
I heard Badger Semen is better.
Originally Posted by Thatshowiroll
More than a little slow
Well I went ahead and installed my new ( and cheap ) headset before I got around to checking this, so it went in with anti seize . I'm still curious about using loctite. I use the medium strength version on chainring bolts both to lock the bolts in place in the short term and to prevent them from seizing over the long term.
I was thinking this afternoon that loctite isn't so great at dealing with vibration though. So around a headset might not be a perfect place to use it. 641 is a retaining compound right ( the green stuff )? Would it handle vibration better than a thread locker , would anti seize still be a better choice?
I'm a bit paranoid about parts seizing together over the long term.
Crisco's out. We save bacon grease for that. And where the f..whatever..am I going to find a badger? Badger bikes are supposed to be quite nice though ain't they?
As mentioned above, loctite won't do a heck of a lot for you unless you have a very sloppy tolerance between HS cup and frame. If this interface is tight enough you do not have to worry about anything rattling loose, unlike a chainring bolt assuming everything is assembled and adjusted properly there is simply nowhere for you HS cups to go!
If it was pressed with anti-seize I would just leave it. Usually the only time I bother with anti-seize is in a ti-frame, and I think even that may be a bit unnecessary given my experience. I have seen a LOT of seized parts over the years, but I don't think HS cups have ever been one of them. (However make sure to liberally grease threaded HS nuts, quill stems, the outside of drop-in cartridge bearings, pretty much all surfaces of the upper compression assembly, between your steerer tube and HS spacers, and top-cap bolt. Because I have seen all of those things seize multiple times)
always if you can use the proper anti seize compound in the assembly of such parts (marine grade that is safe for plastics for obvious reasons). that is the best way to assemble such parts. i work with large gear box manufactures like sew, millwrights, fabricators, etc and if they catch you slapping grease on the assembly of parts rather then the proper anti seize they will either void your warranty or give you a slap on the side of the head for your stupidity. usually on machinery one can tell if the proper compound has been used. on this one machine i had to rebuild they have been using grease to lube the shaft gearbox interface. i had to use a 50 ton bottle jack with a self fabricated gear puller to get the gearbox off. on a similar machine that anti seize has been used i've just used a hand wrench...
that being said the loads and stress's on a mtb is off a different scale. what it boils down to is the proper practice and cost... grease is cheap and easy to work with...
The problem with lubricants is that over time they wash out. The retaining compounds will cure and fill the air spaces, to allow for 100% contact between both parts. The actual amount of contact between press fit parts is close to 60%, there's lots of area for the retaining compound to improve the fit of the two parts.
641 is yellow, and is considered "controlled" strength. The green products are high strength, requiring heat to release.
i always grease my cups, then grease the races, then grease the top of the bearings once they're in. no need for anything else.
Like VY said above, once everything in there, bearings preloaded, and everything tight: your cups aren't going anywhere.
locktite is a thread locker...use it on bolts. anti-seize is for mating surfaces that experience high loads/high heat which you will not find on a mtb, although, on a mtb it may be a good idea to use it on steel-aluminum interfaces, as over the long run steel and Al can corrode and "weld" into each other (think Al seatposts that seize into steel seat tubes, Al quill stems from back in the day that seize into steel steer tubes, etc...).
if your lubricants are washing out, you're not maintaining your bike as you should, or are using the wrong lubricants.
...a truly skeptical position would be a very uncertain one.
Loctite is a brand of adheisve products, much more than just threadlocker. At any rate, there's lots of interpretations on how to maintain your bike, and what to use. Machinery adhesives have their place, when you understand what they're good for and how to use them to your advantage they can be pretty useful.
Originally Posted by SkidVicious
I use threadlocker on a few places,
Caliper bolts & CPS washers
Rotor Torx Bolts
Shock mounting bolts
Centrelock rotor rings
Do what you like, by all means, but please try to manage the mis-information.
FWIW usually green Loctite is what you would use on a HS interface. Can't remember the # but I think it is 69_ (bearing retaining compound). I have never needed heat to remove a HS (or bearings) pressed in this way.
edit: actual # is 609. Some bearing kits actually come with this to use (santa cruz comes to mind) so it is definitely not meant to be permanent cement, just to take up gaps/imperfections.
Last edited by veteran_youth; 02-14-2013 at 03:49 PM.
I use green loctite at work to cement parts together that I don't want to come loose. This is only were the parts are permantly glued together. There is a prep solution that prepares the parts. I think the part number is 290 for the greeen locktite. I can't imagine installing a headset with this as there is no way to get them apart. Forget heat, as I wouldn't want to damage the steerer tube.