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  1. #1
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    The Father's DAy Summer Solstice 24 hour Lake to Lake Weather commiseration thread

    Starting a 24 hour race in pouring rain doesn't sound fun, but then the ATV trails knee deep in mud in 33 degree humidity could also be brutal. Discuss if you want.

  2. #2
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    Rumor has it that a secondary trail has started beside the ATV ruts. Apparently the ATVs got sick of riding in their own ruts and cut the grass along the trails. Thus we may not have to ride in the ruts.

    As for starting a 24hr race in the pouring rain, I'd only want to do that if I was going solo. I mean if your going to suffer....

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    Quote Originally Posted by thedumbopinion
    Rumor has it that a secondary trail has started beside the ATV ruts. Apparently the ATVs got sick of riding in their own ruts and cut the grass along the trails. Thus we may not have to ride in the ruts.

    As for starting a 24hr race in the pouring rain, I'd only want to do that if I was going solo. I mean if your going to suffer....
    Leaving aside the irony, that sounds promising.

    Those ATV ruts are like I imagine the cobbles of Paris-Roubaix to be. Pick a line, hope you're right, keep pushing a big gear, and if you screw up, GOOD LUCK getting going again. And if they're wet, Hell of the South-Eastern Niagara Peninsula

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedumbopinion
    Rumor has it that a secondary trail has started beside the ATV ruts. Apparently the ATVs got sick of riding in their own ruts and cut the grass along the trails. Thus we may not have to ride in the ruts.
    That rumour is some what true.
    On our pre-ride last Sunday there was one section that had ruts so bad the 4x4's and ATV could not even use the trail any longer and they started a new trail next to the mess of ruts. For the most part the trails are the same craptacularness except for the section that now has cross ruts mixed into the normal ruts, that was fun to ride...

    I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
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    Good luck to everybody getting dirty at the races this weekend. I look forward to seeing your pictures and reading your reports.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.


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    Do MTB races ever get canceled because of wet trails?
    It seams that we are all pretty educated to stay off the trails in the spring time. This board would rip someone up for posting a " Man that was a muddy Spring ride" pic.
    But when the forcast is for muddy trails before a race all that is said is what tires should I use? Who is the fast guy in the mud? Boy that was a hard muddy one but we made it to the finish.
    Does anyone know what IMBA's stance is on Rain or Shine MTB events?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phat Tyred
    Do MTB races ever get canceled because of wet trails?
    It seams that we are all pretty educated to stay off the trails in the spring time. This board would rip someone up for posting a " Man that was a muddy Spring ride" pic.
    But when the forcast is for muddy trails before a race all that is said is what tires should I use? Who is the fast guy in the mud? Boy that was a hard muddy one but we made it to the finish.
    Does anyone know what IMBA's stance is on Rain or Shine MTB events?
    I don't think IMBA gives a damn about the ATV trails.

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    IMBA should care about all trails used by MTBers.
    I ask the question about ALL MTB racing, not a specific race or trail.
    Whats your thoughts coach, race on muddy trails or not?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phat Tyred
    IMBA should care about all trails used by MTBers.
    I ask the question about ALL MTB racing, not a specific race or trail.
    Whats your thoughts coach, race on muddy trails or not?
    The price of being flippant means I'd better answer this.

    wrt to the ATV trails, I think an earlier post covered this. They suck. The only time MTBers are ever on these is during LTL, and perhaps pre-riding a little before. The ATVs have wrecked them. They are a deeply rutted confusing mess, and I believe enough to convince some riders not to return to LTL. I usually think that exact thought every time I'm riding them, but fortunately the second half of the course is much better, and I manage to forget enough to sign up again.

    I say trust that the organizers, especially when local, know and care enough about the trails to make certain route changes and/or modifications. It's not exactly possible to cancel or postpone a major event like the Lake to Lake, unlike my weekly series which usually has one rain-out every year.

    I don't know him personally, but I do know that the guy responsible for many, if not most of the trails in the second half of the race, Marv Srigley, races every year and is consistent top ten. I'd imagine that he wants the race to go on, but will no doubt be organizing post-race fix-up if necessary.

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    Marv is a great guy, whose heart is in the right place. The owners of L2L are lucky to have him. He stopped and had a chat about racing and trails with one of our Locals during a race held in our area a few years back. Great guy who will put a ton of time into any problem areas. Notice I did not say the owners of L2L would put that time into the trails. Perhaps the trails you speak of are on private property and can be fixed and rest before the next years pounding. What about a system that is used every fair weather day. How do you fix the damage?

    If I understand you correctly coach, what you said was there will be damage done during a wet race but you are fine with hoping the people you pay for the race will fix any and all damage. Is that a fair assumption from your post?

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    Oh, the flipping drama.

    I just love how everyone starts jumping up and down when it rains. How it's the most evil thing in the world rants. They go on about IMBA dogma and so on. Yet no one ever asks the most important question. That being, what is the soil, what the trail is built on?
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    Depression...can eat a sack of manure and die.

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    Good luck tomorrow everyone!!
    Mud sucks, period.
    I'll be at Grand Bend, enjoying the heat wave. Beach time!!!!!
    High on Life

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    Welcome enduramil, what soil stands up to 100's of tires during wet conditions through a couple hour period? No one wants to talk about what should be done with racing during wet conditions. Perhaps you could explain how to ride with 100's of people through mud and have no damage done??? Good luck.

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    OK, it's getting a bit ridiculous. I am also getting tired of people whining about damage to this or that and what is IMBA blahblahblah. I am sure a race like this takes alot of time and planning and you just can't cancel a race the day before because it's raining. MTB is an outdoor sport and the weather is part of everything we do. Just go out and have fun, nature will take care of things. If you want super smooth trails with no rock, roots, ruts or bump just stick to road riding

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    Typical no mind racer boy attitude you have jcr. You do not care about nature at all just you number plate and where you place in the race. Just toss out any Gu packs you have during the race, it will slow you down too much to pocket it, after all you are paying someone to worry about these silly things. Dirt moved roots exposed what ever, who cares, the race must go on, we need more racing. blahblahblah.
    Boy I sure hope you get a chance to race the heck out of my Local trails.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phat Tyred
    Typical no mind racer boy attitude you have jcr. You do not care about nature at all just you number plate and where you place in the race. Just toss out any Gu packs you have during the race, it will slow you down too much to pocket it, after all you are paying someone to worry about these silly things. Dirt moved roots exposed what ever, who cares, the race must go on, we need more racing. blahblahblah.
    Boy I sure hope you get a chance to race the heck out of my Local trails.
    Yes, we get it. You hate the fact people have any capacity of fun. Unless of course it fits into your trail dictatorship rules of conduct. All this shows is that you are a disturbed human being.

    All that's missing is a pic of the poster at the trail head wearing jack boots and ranting IMBA dogma at everyone using the trails.

    I await the humorous PM of hatred that I know I will receive.
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  17. #17
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    While reading your reply Mr. Phat "Trail Nazi" Tyred I remembered that you where also the one complaining and whining about the fact that people would go race your own trails for the 1st Marathon race @ Horseshoe Valley. Did Dan pick up the few signs that he missed or you are still riding by them all the time without picking them up. By the way, not to break your heart but there is probably another race schedule for your prestine area later this summer.

    Obviously you have no clue about the trails we will be riding @ the Lake2Lake. Those are 4X4 trails that have more chances of being improve by 1000 racers going by than getting damage. Anyway, I already spent enough time replying to the trail Nazi, I am getting ready to go get muddy and have FUN with thousands of other people.

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    enduramil ,I guess you are done explaining "the most important question" like you know or care.

    jcr ,I will swing by the beaver pond and see if the Marathon people have had time to fix the damage from the last race. I guess I will just trust they find the time.

    Trail Nazi, is that a person that does not like to hear about trails getting trashed?????

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phat Tyred
    Do MTB races ever get canceled because of wet trails?
    Here is your answer: yes. I was in the 24 Hours Of Summer Solstice yesterday when it was decided that it would become the 12 Hours of Summer Solstice.
    The trails were just too bad, getting too damaged and getting too unsafe. After cutting the lap from 17km down to under 13km, a "fast" lap time was about an hour and half.
    I love riding my bike!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by HSCoach2
    I don't think IMBA gives a damn about the ATV trails.
    ATV trails are not in IMBA's area of responsibility, it's under whatever ATV group's. It's only when ATV retards decide to wreck designated MTB trails that it falls under IMBA and the local MTB group.

    I know of at least 2 police investigations into ATVer conduct.
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    Depression...can eat a sack of manure and die.

  21. #21
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    I'm not meaning to start anything here but I do find it quite ironic that all this trail damage was done on conservation land. These are the same people that we (engineer types) have to jump through hoops for to get their approvals to do any type of work on land that they have deemed they have control of...

    BTW guys damage like this is not looked at lightly by the general public...Also, crap like this is one of the main reasons I got the heII out of MTBn and hit the road...

    Have a good one...
    "The meek shall inherit the earth"

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbart4506
    I'm not meaning to start anything here but I do find it quite ironic that all this trail damage was done on conservation land. These are the same people that we (engineer types) have to jump through hoops for to get their approvals to do any type of work on land that they have deemed they have control of...

    BTW guys damage like this is not looked at lightly by the general public...Also, crap like this is one of the main reasons I got the heII out of MTBn and hit the road...

    Have a good one...
    I was really impressed earlier today when I saw this in the Rouge, TRCA area of control.

    Hello, erosion disaster.

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    Depression...can eat a sack of manure and die.

  23. #23
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    Enduraphuck ,"That being, what is the soil, what the trail is built on?"

    Please correct me if I am wrong, Albion trails are towords the sand particle size and L2L towards the clay particle size. Which soil type stood up to 100's of tires?????

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phat Tyred
    Enduraphuck ,"That being, what is the soil, what the trail is built on?"

    Please correct me if I am wrong, Albion trails are towords the sand particle size and L2L towards the clay particle size. Which soil type stood up to 100's of tires?????
    Ok, so first you swear at me in a PM and now in a post. Is that how desperate you are not only to prove your case but force others to obey you without question? It would appear so. All that swearing does is prove not only how desperate but how lacking you are in intelligence. Also how low class you actually are.

    Be advised. You have proven more than once to not only be a Troll but of a Trail Nazi mentality. I have filed the PM and such for in case it is needed in the future. If there is ever a suspicious incident at a race I will without reservation provide this info to the police. Because who knows how desperate you might become in the future.
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    Depression...can eat a sack of manure and die.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phat Tyred
    Which soil type stood up to 100's of tires?????
    1000's

    as much as it pains me to admit it, this sport is dead without racing, dead.

    if your local trails WERENT made by or expanded by event organizers then they WERE made by people that were in some way impacted by racing. guaranteed.

    mtb'ers (in particular) DONT live in bubbles. i think its safe to say that ALL have experienced some form of racing or another...most likely in a positive light.

    this interaction (rider/event) is what solidifies the sport for many and introduces thousands of others. remember the 24hrs of adrenaline hayday? a veritable breeding ground of NEW/CASUAL riders - present co included.

    Phat. racing happens. in my opinion, it HAS to happen.
    ignore or debate it's influence (and necessity) if you must, BUT, the potentially (inevitable) bankrupting of organizers caused by 'acts of god' is not open to interpretation.

    expenses and commitments are made well in advance, non-refundable and totally without the option of garage-sale rain-days...if races were tied to fair weather, races stop.

    instead of venting on riders and organizers why not go to the source?

    why not go to the trca or YOUR local land manager and DEMAND that they change the terms of their land use contract. DEMAND that they remove the 'act of gawd' clause...make THEM put the business side of conservation on the back burner...
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