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  1. #1
    Team NFI
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    To The Father Son Duo A Paul's

    In the blue and white kit I believe was in the 15k. You are aware I almost took out you 12 year old son right?

    Even on double track you have to call out you are passing because if you don't you will get taken out. If I didn't have exellent hearing and heard your son's bike clatter faintly at the last second he would have been lined into the trees. Even though I swerved my elbow missed his head by 4 inches.

    We all know if I had taken out your son because of this you would be coming after me claiming it was my fault. You are failing to educate your son on race etiquette and I feel bad for him.Because your attitude and what you are showing him will end up with that result one day.

    I know of at least 4 people you scared with this behaviour. If the leaders who are truly racing for a podium can call out they are passing you can as well.

  2. #2
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    I empathize greatly with your feelings. I detest being passed “ninja-style” by riders who don’t ask for track.

    That being said...

    Even on double track you have to call out you are passing
    Yes.

    You are failing to educate your son on race etiquette
    Yes. Although, and I feel this is important, your message doesn’t establish why he is failing to educate his son on race etiquette. Does he know this is not optional/ Is he aware that this is a safety issue and not just a courtesy?

    Because your attitude and what you are showing him...
    Can you give us some context on the attitude thing? Did you approach him about this issue? Were you rebuffed? Was he angry that people didn’t use ESP to detect that he was passing and move out of the way without being told?

    I wasn’t there, so this is all just chewing the fat online, but I’m wondering if there’s some additional context you have that makes you certain he knows the rules but refuses to obey them as opposed to the possibility that he is ignorant of the practice and simply needs to have it explained in a non-confrontational manner.

    Of course, just like driving a car, it is his responsibility to edjimakate hisself on safe trail and race practices, and none of this in any way discounts the deep truth you have pointed out about the consequences of unsafe behaviour.

    Thanks for bringing this up. It may help others, not just him.

  3. #3
    No. Just No. Moderator
    Reputation: Circlip's Avatar
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    Did you try to find them after the finish to give a friendly suggestion. As I'm sure I don't have to say, only a small % of regional riders tune into this forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    In the blue and white kit I believe was in the 15k. You are aware I almost took out you 12 year old son right?

    ...

    I know of at least 4 people you scared with this behaviour. If the leaders who are truly racing for a podium can call out they are passing you can as well.

  4. #4
    namagomi
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    Father probably told the kid, but the kid was not listening or taking it seriously. Maybe next time speak to the organizers and ask them to remind the participants to call out their passes. The other possibility is you didn't hear the kid's voice. It's better to wait for an acknowledgement that a pass wont' be a surprise - even if it's just the rider in front looking back - the kid should have at least been briefed on that.

  5. #5
    sock puppet
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    Can you elaborate on the positioning and moves that would have resulted in you taking out a kid on a bike when he passed you on the DOUBLETRACK.

    I don't call my passes on the doubletrack, unless I have to. In more situations than not, when I call the pass, the rider ahead moves exactly to the side I called for passing and causes potential issues.

    In the single track, I announce that I am coming and let the rider ahead pick side that they would let me go. If they don't let me go by, and we pass few spots where it would have been safe enough - then I call the pass and just go when I decide it is safe - keeping the highest standards of safety.

    On few occasions, the last one of which happened during Hot August Nights, right before the Camp Misfit - I call my pass and the rider ahead starts to race me full on. Like, he is busting his balls to stay ahead. In these situations, I pass and am only concerned about my safety.

    This subject has been discussed to death and I think that this thread is an overreaction.

    Endura, you need to drink more cool aid, instead of rum.

  6. #6
    No. Just No. Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    Can you elaborate on the positioning and moves that would have resulted in you taking out a kid on a bike when he passed you on the DOUBLETRACK.
    I can't speak to Enduramil's actual encounter from this event, but on many occasions over the years I have been involved in contentious passes on doubletrack descents where there is only one good line. This is more likely to occur around sweeping corners or where ruts are involved, and speeds are high enough that sudden braking is sketchy when someone unexpectedly cuts in on your line, or else squeezes in tight beside so that you can't naturally let the bike drift into the best line on the corners.

  7. #7
    sock puppet
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    that happened to me last year

    on the first day of the Crank the Shield, but even though the guy called the pass - it was stupid to even attempt it. He took my bail out line and forced me into the rut at good speed... Landed on the palm of my right hand, right on the top of small rock... Took me 6 months to heal.

    However, I do not see how calling or non calling this pass would have changed anything... At least in my case...

    In Endura's case - I guess anything is possible...

    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip View Post
    I can't speak to Enduramil's actual encounter from this event, but on many occasions over the years I have been involved in contentious passes on doubletrack descents where there is only one good line. This is more likely to occur around sweeping corners or where ruts are involved, and speeds are high enough that sudden braking is sketchy when someone unexpectedly cuts in on your line, or else squeezes in tight beside so that you can't naturally let the bike drift into the best line on the corners.

  8. #8
    namagomi
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    What osokolo says is often true, I don't call x2 track passes when(through a previous call) I know the other rider is going to just speed up. It's a 100k, 60k or 30k course and there are lots of spots to pass. It is true there are riders who refuse to be polite even though they are "beaten" and that just gets awkward. Better to realize you won't shake the person behind you and just let em go. Practice a Release and Catch program. It is also true sometimes you get passed on the x2 track by a person who is so slooow on the singletrack. To them this is often a "competitive" move - aka cock-block move - if you can't be 'em sabotage 'em. This might be a spot todo the opposite.

    However.

    I don't think this is the case with Endura's incident. I'd feel bad if somebody's kid got tangled up in my wheel in an accident so i can see why Endura feels angry about being forced into that position. There were kids on the course when i was finishing, but parents were with them to watch they didn't get steamrolled by 2-4 faster riders which really could have happened since you got moving 30km/h or so on those descents and the slow beginner riders were going 10km/h or so.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by electrik View Post
    However.

    I don't think this is the case with Endura's incident. I'd feel bad if somebody's kid got tangled up in my wheel in an accident so i can see why Endura feels angry about being forced into that position. There were kids on the course when i was finishing, but parents were with them to watch they didn't get steamrolled by 2-4 faster riders which really could have happened since you got moving 30km/h or so on those descents and the slow beginner riders were going 10km/h or so.
    I'm with you on this. I've had Endura over for a few rides, and I'm pretty sure he's just doing a PSA for the kid and his dad to call out their passes or risk getting accidentally steamrolled.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickboers View Post
    I'm with you on this. I've had Endura over for a few rides, and I'm pretty sure he's just doing a PSA for the kid and his dad to call out their passes or risk getting accidentally steamrolled.
    It's a by product of racing Tri's. The rule is to always call out passes. Even if you have a huge amount of room to pass. It let's the riders ahead know you are passing so they won't make a sudden move from their line. And also protects the passer from getting taken out and getting hurt.

    This is covered numerous times during prestart briefing and race volunteers/officials will call it out as well. Plus add in the usual fellow racer enforcement.

    As a OAT delegate said... " You can't read minds. Either call the pass or go to the ER."

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