Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: Event Pics-Spam

  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mtbmeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,556

    Event Pics-Spam

    As an addition to the CadenceXC commemorative videos we've been shooting for the past few years, we will be expanding to shoot some action photos in coming events such as the chico 24 hour events, eight hour relays, and hopefully others to capture the essence of participating in them. Some of these may be incorporated into our videos too to combine and capture some of the great action of these awesome events. This past weekend's Epic was a trial so to speak. Feel free to give us any feedback or suggestions. A link to some pictures from this event can be found here.

    http://racedayrush.zoomphoto.ca


    Cheers,

    Neil
    A bad day on the bike is better than a good day doing anything else...

    http://www.apexracephotography.com

  2. #2
    bi-winning
    Reputation: rkj__'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    11,136
    The web site says I can purchase an image that is 5x7 pixels. That can't be correct. That would be microscopic. Also, the "default banner" does not always load properly.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.


    Shorthills Cycling Club

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mtbmeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,556
    Quote Originally Posted by rkj__
    The web site says I can purchase an image that is 5x7 pixels. That can't be correct. That would be microscopic. Also, the "default banner" does not always load properly.
    I will adjust the pixels issue...That's just a set up of the site...It's essentially a digital 5x7 download. Trying to keep things simple...The default banner hasn't been uploaded yet...Still partly a work in progress, but wanted to get this out there...
    A bad day on the bike is better than a good day doing anything else...

    http://www.apexracephotography.com

  4. #4
    bi-winning
    Reputation: rkj__'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    11,136
    Out of curiosity, what camera was used?
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.


    Shorthills Cycling Club

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mtbmeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,556
    Quote Originally Posted by rkj__
    Out of curiosity, what camera was used?
    It's a Sony Cybershot DSC-H50. 15X Zoom, 9.1MP, and full 1080 Still image capability...I have sent a few shots out to folks and got some great feedback on the quality...
    A bad day on the bike is better than a good day doing anything else...

    http://www.apexracephotography.com

  6. #6
    Misfit Psycles
    Reputation: nogearshere's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    2,772
    i don't recall signing a waiver...how do you pay royalties?
    Expert of the Internet.
    BECAUSE I SAID SO

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    i don't recall signing a waiver...how do you pay royalties?
    Did you sign a race event waiver? Usually the waiver you sign to register for a race covers the issue of promotional photography and other media being taken and used by the event organizer. Small print near the bottom of most.

    At any rate, why would you think you had rights to royalties for a photo that didn't even belong to you... it's a photographic representation of you, not physically you. Photographs belong to the photographer.

  8. #8
    Misfit Psycles
    Reputation: nogearshere's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    2,772
    Quote Originally Posted by neddead
    Did you sign a race event waiver? Usually the waiver you sign to register for a race covers the issue of promotional photography and other media being taken and used by the event organizer. Small print near the bottom of most.
    Waiver for the Canada Cup. HERE

    Quote Originally Posted by neddead
    At any rate, why would you think you had rights to royalties for a photo that didn't even belong to you... it's a photographic representation of you, not physically you. Photographs belong to the photographer.
    That kind of thinking killed Princess Diana.
    Expert of the Internet.
    BECAUSE I SAID SO

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    517
    Too lazy to get a copy of the waiver I actually signed at the race.
    However I think we only signed an insurance waiver which would belong to Chico or OCA.

    Assuming nothing was signed as a model release to raceday rush / cadence nogearshere brings up a very valid point. That you may own the photo for personal use. But to sell the photo for commercial use requires a model release if the subject can be clearly identified. And that includes every subject in the photo.

    Not that I think it'll be in issue in this case as long as the photos are not sold and posted on some biillboard. (Yes this has happened with other sites that "claim" ownership of photos).

    As to the photos themselves, if I were to sell photos from the race, I would expect a higher quality photo, and in more interesting zones of the race with more interesting action shots. Theres nothing real special about the photos, unless someone wants to buy a photo of themself on the podium.
    www.mtbiker.ca

    My Rides:
    FSR XC -R7 Platinum - SRAM X7 (26.5lbs)
    Cervelo SLC - SRAM Rival - Reynolds DV46T (16.25 lbs)

  10. #10
    Misfit Psycles
    Reputation: nogearshere's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    2,772
    releases of liability generally don't cover facets outside risk, injury and the promoter directly.
    races in the US have a card with your # on it, you sign yeah or nay accordingly.

    mostly i jest but Neil needs to consider this...
    Expert of the Internet.
    BECAUSE I SAID SO

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mtbmeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,556
    Quote Originally Posted by bbgobie
    As to the photos themselves, if I were to sell photos from the race, I would expect a higher quality photo, and in more interesting zones of the race with more interesting action shots. Theres nothing real special about the photos, unless someone wants to buy a photo of themself on the podium.
    Just a general comment on this...As with the video that I shoot, I made an effort to get out on the course to take the pictures. In respect to the quality, this was an initial shoot and there is some issues with light in the forest. However, I would suggest that a good number of these are of very good quality depending on the settings I was using. Also, we are not looking to get rich from this stuff, hence the pricing and "one size fits all" model. I have veiwed some of the other photo sites and found them to be much more expensive and not offering anything too superior to this, save for some possible quality gains based on experience, which we will gain.

    Just curious, what other kind of action shots is it that you would be after...Would be interesting to know.

    Thx.
    A bad day on the bike is better than a good day doing anything else...

    http://www.apexracephotography.com

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    That kind of thinking killed Princess Diana.
    No, actually that was a drunk chauffeur. Now back to reality...

    Checkout the bottom of the UCI license, citizen permit and day license forms on the OCA website.

    And in section G of the form you linked to:

    g) that I understand clearly that by signing this release I will be forever prevented from suing or otherwise claiming against the Organizer, its members, officers, directors, employees, independent contractors, agents, affiliated clubs or associations, landowners, sponsors, or volunteers for any loss or damage connected with any property loss or personal injury that I may sustain while participating in or preparing for any of the above mentioned cycling programs, races or activities whether or not such loss or injury is caused solely or partly by the negligence of the Club or any of its members, officers, directors, employees, independent contractors, agents, affiliated clubs or associations, landowners, sponsors, or volunteers;
    -----

    Because personality rights (the right to control one's likeness/public image) fall under property rights in Canadian law, one could argue that in this section you signed away your right to the control the use of any photograph made of you at this event (if one were to argue that a photograph depicting them was actually their property and not the property of the photographer.) This could also including any damages incurred relating to the use of the photograph in question by the event organizer or anyone else the section relieves of culpability (which is a lot of people... actually it's kind of scary how many that section implies.)

  13. #13
    Misfit Psycles
    Reputation: nogearshere's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    2,772
    Quote Originally Posted by neddead
    No, actually that was a drunk chauffeur. Now back to reality...
    REAL REALITY. just say no to paparazzi.
    Quote Originally Posted by neddead
    Because personality rights (the right to control one's likeness/public image) fall under property rights in Canadian law, one could argue that in this section you signed away your right to the control the use of any photograph made of you at this event (if one were to argue that a photograph depicting them was actually their property and not the property of the photographer.) This could also including any damages incurred relating to the use of the photograph in question by the event organizer or anyone else the section relieves of culpability (which is a lot of people... actually it's kind of scary how many that section implies.)
    i wouldn't want to be on the short end of this...paper or not.
    Canada recognises a common law tort of misappropriation of personality, the beginnings of which can be traced back to the 1970ís in the case of Krouse v Chrysler Canada. The right of an individual to control the use of his or her persona is also protected by privacy statutes and human rights legislation.
    i like Neil, as such, Neil needs to do better then that generic swiss cheese you mention.
    Expert of the Internet.
    BECAUSE I SAID SO

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by mtbmeister
    Just curious, what other kind of action shots is it that you would be after...Would be interesting to know.
    My suggestion is to pre-ride the course and look for the areas that are the most exciting and technical. Even do some test shoots with your buddies before the race to work out the best angles and framing. Also map out the areas where your going to shoot and how to get to and from each location on the course without getting in the way of the race.

    Another suggestion, invest in some better gear. If your going to sell these to people the minimum you should be shooting with is a DSLR and a decent lens that can shoot in low light conditions and still maintain a fast shutter speed. Trust me point and shoot digicams with internal zoom lenses don't even come close, just checkout the sample galleries at dpreview.com to compare.

    You want to sell people memories of an event that's really an accomplishment for many of the participants. You gotta go for trophy shots, something they'll want to buy so years later they will look at the photo and say 'Yeah! I did that!'

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mtbmeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,556
    Quote Originally Posted by neddead
    My suggestion is to pre-ride the course and look for the areas that are the most exciting and technical. Even do some test shoots with your buddies before the race to work out the best angles and framing. Also map out the areas where your going to shoot and how to get to and from each location on the course without getting in the way of the race.

    Another suggestion, invest in some better gear. If your going to sell these to people the minimum you should be shooting with is a DSLR and a decent lens that can shoot in low light conditions and still maintain a fast shutter speed. Trust me point and shoot digicams with internal zoom lenses don't even come close, just checkout the sample galleries at dpreview.com to compare.

    You want to sell people memories of an event that's really an accomplishment for many of the participants. You gotta go for trophy shots, something they'll want to buy so years later they will look at the photo and say 'Yeah! I did that!'
    ''

    Thanks for the feedback...Something to consider as it pertains to my stuff...I am shooting an event video for the race as well as participating in the race. So I am familiar with the spots that would be considered technical or may create good results. However, I don't have an ATV to get out there and also be a participant.

    As far as you reference to DSLR, I would argue that the need for this type of technology is overkill in some cases. Especially with where digital point and shoots have come. However, I am not going to argue the quality of the DSLR. I will suggest that a high end point and shoot can be very capable. One thing that is also suggested right on this web site is that the image have been compressed.

    As for the trophy shot, that's all you're own perspective. I guess I am vain in that I would like any decent picture of me in a nice section of trail as you don't often get to see that.

    Regardless, all feedback is constructive and appreciated as the pics are a new addition that we will mainly be using as part of the event videos, but decided to offer separately.

    Neil
    A bad day on the bike is better than a good day doing anything else...

    http://www.apexracephotography.com

  16. #16
    bi-winning
    Reputation: rkj__'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    11,136
    For ease of capturing an image that is not blurred, aim to shoot pictures at a location where the rider is not moving fast. I noticed many shots where the rider was blurred, due to their speed. A technical rock garden, a steep climb, or tight switchback might make a primo spot.

    And of course, your photography will improve as you discover the strengths and weaknesses of your camera, and the best settings for each situation, etc.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.


    Shorthills Cycling Club

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    517
    A specific model release is required to sell a photo for commercial use. A liability waiver does not sign this right away.

    As to the photos, there were many exciting downhill sections of the course that would make for great photos. Or perhaps a great shot of someones painful face with a crowd behind them. The shots are rather generic as mentioned and since digi cams are are everywhere theres nothing special about the photos.

    From a consumer view, why buy a photo of yourself that anyone could've taken.
    www.mtbiker.ca

    My Rides:
    FSR XC -R7 Platinum - SRAM X7 (26.5lbs)
    Cervelo SLC - SRAM Rival - Reynolds DV46T (16.25 lbs)

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mtbmeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,556
    Quote Originally Posted by rkj__
    For ease of capturing an image that is not blurred, aim to shoot pictures at a location where the rider is not moving fast. I noticed many shots where the rider was blurred, due to their speed. A technical rock garden, a steep climb, or tight switchback might make a primo spot.

    And of course, your photography will improve as you discover the strengths and weaknesses of your camera, and the best settings for each situation, etc.
    Thanks Ryan...Agreed. Although I think some of the more blurred pics I will remove and they are like that as a result of light and camera setting. I know from differences in other pics where it was different. Practice can only help.
    A bad day on the bike is better than a good day doing anything else...

    http://www.apexracephotography.com

  19. #19
    Dorkimus Prime
    Reputation: Biggie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    1,454

    HAppens in hockey all the time...

    People take pictures of our kids and then sell them to us in the mesonine after the game. Maybe its OK if they sell the pic to its subject?

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mtbmeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,556
    Quote Originally Posted by bbgobie
    A specific model release is required to sell a photo for commercial use. A liability waiver does not sign this right away.

    As to the photos, there were many exciting downhill sections of the course that would make for great photos. Or perhaps a great shot of someones painful face with a crowd behind them. The shots are rather generic as mentioned and since digi cams are are everywhere theres nothing special about the photos.

    From a consumer view, why buy a photo of yourself that anyone could've taken.
    Right, and some of the pics were actually taken during those downhill sections you mentioned as I hiked up there. Generic, sure, but this is a new project so I will take that as constructive criticism as I mentioned earlier.

    I will again say I am not using a basic digi cam though. And photos anyone could take? That is a good point, but there doesn't seem to be an abundance of on course photos available out there, so no harm in taking some where possible. Again, this is all good feedback.
    A bad day on the bike is better than a good day doing anything else...

    http://www.apexracephotography.com

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    517
    As constructive feedback I'll take this photo as an example.
    Its on the first page of race photos after the start.
    http://racedayrush.zoomphoto.ca/view...62-10887472/2/

    Its great that you've taken the time to take it, and posted it. But if you were the rider, you have to ask yourself, would you buy this photo?

    If it was me. I'd be like, the tree is in focus, while I'm not. My head is also cropped off, and not for an artistic reason either.

    Beyond that, it really is just a photo anyone with any camera could've taken along the side of the course.

    Competitively what's to stop me from going to Canada Cup #3 this Sunday and taking a bunch of photos and posting them for free? Which since I'm not riding, considering doing because I never have time to take photos while I'm riding.

    As mentioned, angles, framing, focus, shutter speed are all issues. I think the only photo of commercial value is the podiums.

    I mean well, hell if anything, I'm always taking photos of other people, but its rare that someone takes a photo of me. And if you had a photo of me of similar quality to something like this. (Yes, I just quickly browsed through to find when the last time I pulled out my camera after a race was) I'd be interested in buying.

    www.mtbiker.ca

    My Rides:
    FSR XC -R7 Platinum - SRAM X7 (26.5lbs)
    Cervelo SLC - SRAM Rival - Reynolds DV46T (16.25 lbs)

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: serious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,989
    neddead: Another suggestion, invest in some better gear. If your going to sell these to people the minimum you should be shooting with is a DSLR and a decent lens that can shoot in low light conditions and still maintain a fast shutter speed.

    I have to agree. A fast lens and DSLR quality autofocus speed will let you take good shots, even when the lens is zoomed out. Another consideration is noise. If you blow up the pic, the noise difference between even entry level DSLRs and prosumer cameras is huge.

    Having said that, I appreciate anyone taking any photos at races. I buy for the memories, not for the amazing quality or trophy shots.
    My rides:
    Lynskey Ti Pro29 SL singlespeed
    GF Superfly 29er HT
    S-Works Roubaix SL3 Dura Ace
    Pake French 75 track

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •